How do we deal with dangerous teens when NOBODY will help? (long rant of a mom over the edge) :(

[FirstLight]

So I wonder, what happens when you have a teen with problems and ask for help repeatedly but nothing happens?
What do you do when they basically tell you you have to wait till they "actually DO something" ...what if that something is them bashing your skull in while you sleep?

I have a 14 yr old who is seriously fucked up.
It's been escalating for the last 6 months and he is "self-medicating" with drugs. (usually pot, some alcohol, and well...?)
He is emotionally manipulative, verbally abusive, destroys my house (holes in door, breaking porch lights, etc) cuts school chronically, refuses to go to school (I've had to call the Sheriff to come to the house when he refuses to even get in the car), he fights at school, is defiant, gets suspended, the whole gamut.....there seems to be some mental health stuff too,but getting the referral to a psychiatrist has been long coming.

I go between days when it's relatively okay, days when I let him go to a friend's house (even if I think they might smoke pot, cuz I know the parents from baseball and think it's an okay environment), days when we have a argument over something trivial, days when I just need a break, days when he is a monster, days when he is obviously stoned but he just goes to bed, days when he rages for no reason, days when the sheriff and I seem to be getting to know each other well... I've even dashed out of work at a phone call I misunderstood thinking my daughter had come home to find him dead ...

I have gone to the school, spoken with the principal and counselors on MANY occasions, they know what's going on, we've had conversations with the campus security, the on campus police officer, even had CPS involved... NOBODY can get us any further to an answer. Got some counseling granted, but he only went to one session. meanwhile, he hasn't "done" anything to warrant arrest apparently.

Today I picked him up from said friend's house and he was fucked up beyond anything I'd seen. (needless to say, he's never going there again) he came home, puked all over the bathroom and couldn't even form a sentence. Then when I told him I didn't believe a word he said about not being on something more...he started looking for something to hurt himself with (which is is go-to behavior for attention seeking) (Also: I have long since locked up ALL sharps and drugs in the house, even tylenol)
He found a pair of children's scissors in the bathroom, said "goodbye I love you" to his sister and went in his room....I waked in and got them away from him because he was not coordinated enough to fight me. called 911.
The sheriff came and after some questions, decided to take him to the hospital for drug testing and then to juvey.

While talking to us and searching his room...they found a HAMMER under his bed. (mind you, my daughter and I have slept in my room with the door locked on more than one occasion afraid of his rage...and I am thinking he could have bashed in our skulls!!!)
But this did not seem to phase the Sheriff...

So Juvey calls me later tonight and tells me I need to pick him up in the morning because all they can charge him with is being under the influence. (Apparently it was Valium and pot)
I said I didn't want to leave him alone while at work, so I'd need to pick him up after 4...they said NO!
If I choose not to take him, I have to petition the court to make him a "ward of the court" and then they will place him in Foster Care...which means he gets angrier and becomes someone else's problem.

So basically, I have to wait for the other shoe to drop...what that means is anyone's guess...

I have been BEGGING for help and treatment or juvey or someone to put him in a facility for months.

But he's my problem...until he's society's.
Until he does something to someone else...or my daughter...or me.

WHAT THE FUCK?

sorry I have nowhere this rant is going in particular.
I just wanted to share how hard it is for people to get HELP for emotional, mental and drug related teen issues...

[renate]

1. I am so, so, so sorry that you are dealing with this

I cannot begin to imagine the anguish you and your family are going through.

Tomorrow morning, you might want to call the NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) helpline at 800-950-6264 to find out what your options are. I'm not saying your son is mentally ill, just that they will know how to find you the help you desperately need for a child who is behaving like this.

You could also try calling your county's mental health department.

You can look for mental health resources here: https://findtreatment.samhsa.gov/

And as a volunteer on a hotline, I would also suggest that if you aren't satisfied with the help you get when you call, try again. Volunteers each have their own approaches, their own expertise, their own experience. I have my own list of resources that I refer people to, that I've stumbled across or heard about, that not every other volunteer has. My list of favorites isn't exhaustive; I'm sure other volunteers know of other valuable resources that I haven't come across yet. Try and try and try until you feel as though you really have wrung every bit of useful advice from the hotline.

I wish you the very, very, very best.

[FirstLight]

4. oh yeah...been there too

Daughter already goes to the on-campus meetings once a week...

not much more they can do. County mental health is non-existent...and we're still waiting for a psych eval.

thanks for the advice and hugs though.

[Ezior]

2. I don't know how to help, but I wish you and your family (incl. your son) all the best

I know a family that had similar issues, but now that the son is older (it took a few years), he's a really nice guy. Nice day job, girlfriend, and everything. Drugs can do terrible things to you.
So, best wishes from another son that currently causes a lot of pain to his parents in a different (I hope it's easier for them) way.

Unfortunately I can't help you because I don't know how related US laws work. Here in Germany, you can force people into a facility if they threaten to take their own live, and some of the clinics are pretty good apparently.

[MFM008]

3. My son

Started down a similar path. I caught him trying to set his window on fire and he kicked one of my animals and using the wall of his bedroom in our apartment complex for BB gun practice . I dragged him into our local Mental Health Center and then we started the delicate game of tweaking medications until we finally found a combination that help to control his rage he still takes medication to this day at 34 but at this time he's at least a productive citizen with a new wife but it wasn't an easy path, there were times I thought I was going to have to commit him. He still drinks too much for my taste but he is 34 now not a whole lot I can do about it.
Keep riding them.
Best of luck.

[Rhiannon12866]

5. You might want to cross post in this Group:

It looks pretty active and they may be able to give you more helpful information and resources. The SoP of the group sounds like what you're looking for. Good luck with this, my heart goes out to you...

Mental Health Support (Group)
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1151

[pnwmom]

6. I am so sorry for any parent who has to go through this. What state are you in,

in case people have any specific suggestions?

There is something called "therapeutic foster care," with foster parents who have had special training. I don't know anything about how well it works -- it's just something I've heard about.

I'm concerned about your daughter, too -- she shouldn't have to live through something like this, either.



FWIW, I found this:

https://childwelfaresparc.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/therapeutic-foster-care-exceptional-care-for-complex-trauma-impacted-youth-in-foster-care.pdf

[Louis1895]

7. National Alliance on Mental Illness

Please check the website of the National Alliance on Mental Illness.

Your son is mentally ill and needs help now. NAMI can help you find help in your area.

Your son is 14. That means you, as a parent, have less than 4 years to act. Once he hits 18 and becomes a legal, adult you lose the ability to direct his medical care or even to talk to his caregivers without his permission. Start today because I doubt it will get any better without a medical and therapeutic intervention.

Good luck!

[Chemisse]

8. Thank-you for sharing your story - and pointing out a huge problem in our society.

When it comes to school shootings (and I'm not suggesting your son is headed toward that), everybody says 'there were signs - how come nobody did anything?'

And the answer is, there was nothing anybody could have done!!

There needs to be real and immediate mental health care for kids (and people in general) who are in crisis. Your son, and others like him, should not have to commit a crime before he gets help.

I wish you and your family the best of luck.

[Lee-Lee]

9. I dont know what state you are in so laws vary but here are a few things

Last edited Thu Feb 22, 2018, 09:04 AM - Edit history (1)

First, you can’t do this alone. You can’t “fix” him alone. And none of this is your fault. It’s brain chemistry that is off in some people. Absolutely do not let yourself feel like a failure for doing what must be done when is seems like there are no good options. At this point you need to do what is best for your family as a whole and for society, and while he won’t like it in the long run it is what’s best for him as well.

You need to first start documenting everything. In detail. This may come in handy later.

Since he is a minor, you have the power and authority to have him involuntarily committed for a psychological evaluation. Write down as much of his behavior as you can so that you have it all clear in your mind when you talk to the doctors when you do this.

Do not wait for a walk-in evaluation. Those things are backed up and often insufficient. Do a full involuntarily commitment with a 72 hour hold. That will get him seem right away. If your state is anything like NC get it done not going over a weekend to get the best results, if you can time it well.

Second, you mentioned him destroying things. You can and at this point call the police when that happens and have him charged. Depending on your state what the charge is will vary, in some that is enough for domestic violence in others it is less. Don’t worry about harming his future, a juvenile record will end up sealed when he is 18. But it serves to send an indication to the courts and the mental health system of his issues and makes it easier to get him the help he needs.

So if you are at the point now of trying to decide what to do with him if you go pick him up, call the hospital and as them what the procedure is for an involuntary commitment of a minor and how you get that going. The threatened suicide along with the past history should be enough. And get that process started so that you can take him right to the hospital or other facility.

Going forward I would suggest downloading a ln app to your phone that will serve as a voice recorded. Having his displays of suicidal ideation or rage recorded will help in describing them to then doctors or if need be to the courts.

Lastly make sure that when you get a diagnosis you petition the court to have that diagnosis adjudicated and his name sent to NICS as a prohibited person before he turns 18.

This is the hardest thing any parent will have to deal with, short of the death of a child. I applaud you for your strength so far and your wisdom in seeing that he needs the help and your strength in reaching out to others.

[Tipperary]

15. This seems like great advice. eom

[turnitup]

10. been there still there

I feel for you. I had the same problem my son now being 37 still with me still causes issues. Here is what I did when he was 15

We had a program called 766 (not sure if it is still there) but it was for children with "learning disabilities" through the court system I was able to get John in a program that the town and state paid for. He was sent to ELAN in Maine. Unfortunately he came back worse. My option now is to go to the courts and get him removed. Easier said than done.

I know your emotions are up and down and I so feel for you. My advice so you don't end up like me as it will get worse is to petition the courts and make him a ward of the state. They will find treatment, not that it will work but you will have peace for a bit until guilt sets in and you let him back home.

I'm going out on a limb here by saying he's father isn't around much if not at all. The reason I say that is because there are lot's of families who have someone like that in their house, but when there is a male present they seem to be able to get the kid out or make some sort of change

To this day my 37 year old, who I say is stuck on 15 years old (that's when he started using drugs) will laugh at me when I ask him to leave he tells me to evict him as he laughs, bangs cabinets, gets the animals going....blah blah blah

I feel for you I so do. If you ever want to talk I am here

Peace and love to you

[WhiskeyGrinder]

11. You say you're waiting on a mental health referral -- who are you waiting on? If you have an EAP

through your employer, that can get results more quickly than your healthcare provider.

[Lee-Lee]

13. In the situation she described a 72 hour involuntarily commitment is the best path

There is no waiting. You get the order from the judge of magistrate (depending on your state) and they are transported to a treatment facility for evaluation right then.

Sadly one of the gaps in the system is there is nothing that falls between the “call and make an appointment and we will see you in a few weeks or months” and a full 72 hour involuntarily commitment. So that leaves a lot of situations like this one where the family or caregivers think a full IVC is too much or too harsh, but they need help now, in a bad spot.

[GreenPartyVoter]

12. Oppositional defiance, maybe? Has he always been like this,

or did it show up later?

I have a son who is o.d.d. and work with other kids who have it. (Honestly, it runs in my family and I have it too, though I was never actually labelled with it. Just the bipolar.) It ranges from hair-pulling frustration to fear of their rages. My guy was Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes, and while he was destructive to the house he never progressed to animals or people. I did hide my sharps too, tho, because I was terrified of impulse behavior during a rage during his middle school years.

Did the special education department ever pick up on anything in your son? Did his classroom teachers ever refer him for anything?

Am hoping against hope that someone listens to you and can help you!

*hugest of hugs*

[logosoco]

14. hugs and peace to you!

I was a terrible teenager! I had had some horrible experiences and skipped school more than I went to school.

I don't have any answers or remember what finally pulled me away from that behavior. Granted, I did drop out and got my GED when I was 16 and have not had a successful career. But, I have had a good life (still with the man I met when I was 15, he is very mellow and I tell him now he must have saved me!). I have three amazing kids.

Just keep loving your son! . I wish i had a more concrete solution for your family.

[MichMary]

16. Oppositional Defiance Disorder

Many years ago I attended a workshop by a social worker/mom who had written on the topic and who counseled parents and kids affected by it. She told stories from her own life, about how she felt like a failure both as a parent and a professional because she had a child who was out of control.

Then, in desperation and because she saw a need, she came up with a treatment. I remember little about it, but it dealt with having both the parent and child consider the consequences of every particular option.

For the parent: If you propose A as a consequence for bad behavior, what will happen? Okay, can you live with that outcome? If the answer is "yes," then go with it. If the answer is "no," then come up with Consequence B, and so on.

For the kid: If you do _____, what are all the possible outcomes?

She said she was counseling one kid who was a carjacker. He later came back and told her she had ruined his career because for the first time he had realized that one possible outcome was that the car owner could have a gun and he could get killed!

I wish I could remember her name, or the titles of the books she had written, but, as I said, it was a very long time ago. Please do some reading on the topic. Try to find a counselor who is familiar with the disorder, and even if your son won't go, go yourself.

Best of luck to you.

[MichMary]

17. I did some Googling--

--and I _think_ the social worker whose workshop I attended was Kim Abraham. Even if it isn't her, this book may be helpful:

https://www.amazon.com/Whipped-Parent-Parents-Out-Control-ebook/dp/B00IYWM090/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1519308500&sr=8-1&keywords=kim+abraham

[GreenPartyVoter]

18. Add to this a very helpful odd site

https://www.livesinthebalance.org

[GreenPartyVoter]

19. And a search for odd support

https://www.google.com/search?q=oppositional+defiance+support&oq=oppositional+defiance+support&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l3.8503j0j4&client=ms-android-motorola&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

[MichMary]

20. Very good. Glad there are resources,

and an acknowledgment that not all problems are the parents' fault! The reason that workshop stuck in my mind is that I thought when I heard it that the presenter was talking about my niece. No one was ever going to tell her what to do. I think that the problems of girls with ODD are less obvious because the harm that they do tends to be self-destructive. My sister finally kicked her out, which took more courage than I ever would have had. She was on her own, in a sink-or-swim situation. She is 35 now, and has her life more or less together. It took having a child to provide for to give her the incentive to get her act together.

[GreenPartyVoter]

23. It takes we odd kids a lonnngggg time to grow up.

I was only just finally feeling readyish to join the work force at 45!

[Calculating]

21. It's just mental illness

It has nothing to do with you or your parenting skills. He simply isn't wired right in the head. He probably needs to be put on some kind of mood stabilizing drugs. It sounds be like he is self medicating with street drugs trying to deal with his inherent rage, depression, or other extreme emotions.

[MineralMan]

22. I'm so sorry you are in that situation.

Telling us, though, helps us to understand that life is complicated for a lot of people. We often have problems with that sort of understanding. We don't think about such things most of the time. We should.

I hope you can find the answers and help you need. Yours is a heartbreaking story.

[B2G]

24. My sister went through the same thing with my nephew.

All of the above, exactly.

When he was 16, he got drunk, went to a neighborhood pool with his 'friends' and dove/fell head first into the 3' end of the pool.

Long story short, at 19, he is now a quadriplegic with no movement below his shoulders. The only fortunate thing about it is he doesn't need a vent to breathe for him.

I have no answers, but you are not alone. xoxo

[bluecollar2]

25. Really sorry you're having to go through this

No advice to offer at this time but thinking about it.

[samir.g]

26. "actually DO something" He did do several things already

Have him charged for the damage, and the possession of pot and alcohol.

[handmade34]

27. I am truly sorry

that you are having problems with your son not knowing what may be available in your area makes it difficult...

years ago I opened my home to teens needing respite (and parents needing respite from their teen)... from my experience (I also taught at a school for at-risk teens and I worked as a Correctional Officer), I would not hesitate to say that giving your son up to someone else for a bit (or longer) may be very good...

as long as you do what you can to let him know this is out of love and concern, there are many wonderful people that are trained to help in ways that you and I can't do for our own children... don't try to be a martyr if it really is bordering on scary

14 is such a tenuous age... hugs and really take care of yourself... our kids, even when it doesn't seem so, are so sensitive to what's going on with us

[FirstLight]

28. UPDATE: STILL FUCKED

I appreciate your advice and many of the things you suggest I have already done. I have talked to NAMI reps in the area, called CPS even to ask if I could put him in foster care myself, checked area hospitals and shelters...The closest treatment center TODAY said they had no room for him, and even then he had to be referred by a social services or other agency...if I wanted to pay out of pocket it's $18K per MONTH!!!!

So the probation dept tried to get this taken to court to make him a ward of the court but the DA rejected it because he was only caught "under the influence"
(apparently the hammer under the bed never made it to the police report? or nobody gives a damn?...but in MY book that is intent to harm)

They told me they cannot hold him so I'd have to get him today...unless I want it turned over to CPS custody. I said fine - maybe if he is breaking rules in another home he can't blame it on me, right?

CPS calls me and says either I pick him up or they file against ME for Child Abandonment!!! (The woman was horrible, gave me no understanding, told me to be quiet when I started to cry and say I have been begging for help for MONTHS, and then said my daughter's safety isn't the issue...wtf?
she said if he comes home and gets violent, call the cops. (nice, easy, thanks, I wouldn't have thought of that))
She said "we can't just take kids from their parents..." I thought: um, isn't that what you guys DO? she said "what if your daughter was walking down the street and I thought ...there's a cute girl, I have a foster family she'd be perfect for..." I hung up on her smarmy ass

So at this point I refused to go pick him up
Let them bring a case against me... she said they could send law enforcement to my house tonight and take ME into custody, which would mean they'd have to take my daughter as well... (um, isn't that what you guys DO?)

So me and my daughter figure we're going to go OUT to dinner, they can't arrest us if we're not home right?

I've gone through the 5 stages of fucking grief all day today...and now I've reached ANGER.

~ ~ ~

updateupdate...Juvey called one last time and finally convinced me to come get him. Because if this goes to CPS it is no longer about HIS behavior but it's against MINE and I am the one that has to EARN back MY parental RIGHTS.
I tell you, If I end up dead...you guys know why

[GreenPartyVoter]

29. Oh, Lord! I am so very sorry! *huge hug*

This situation just proves how badly we need to rework the system and properly fund it. They are just looking for excuses _not_ to help, same as insurance companies do.

I hope someone will take you seriously before he hurts you or your daughter!!!

[bluecollar2]

30. Maybe it's time to pull out the big guns

Call your state assemblyman.

That person is accountable to you to ensure that your interests are properly represented under the laws of California.

In this case it sounds as if you have a legitimate personal and public safety issue that needs to be addressed AND, given the current climate...i doubt they will interested in being held to account for failing to respond to the needs of that constituent.

In the meantime, ensure that you and your other loved ones personal safety are assured...even if you have to stay elsewhere.

[GreenPartyVoter]

32. +1

[kentuck]

31. I would agree, there should be some resource for assistance.

If there is that depth of fear of a person, then there should be separation of the parties involved. There should be a place for the teen to go for "examination". Something similar to a reform school but with an opportunity for an early out. This is just my opinion.

But, if someone has deep fears of a person, they should not be required to stay together. In effect, there should be a "divorce" court for all citizens.

However, if the mother cannot, because of deep love for her son, request that her teenage son be required to find another residence, then what happens?

It's a complex subject that I have not heard discussed before.

[bluecollar2]

33. Hey...you Ok? N/t

[FirstLight]

34. Extended Update... Take a deep Breath, Momma

Ok, so let's just say the Probation Dept folks are my new Angels. They talked me down off the cliff, I was so overly emotional and angry, I had some reservations about doing it this way. But it's definitely for the best for MY kid to be where's he's ultimately LOVED and cared for than just a case number.
(The CPS lady was so horrible, I should have known I wouldn't wanna deal wioth THAT for a fucking year. Not to mention the damage it would do to my kid who is already emotionally/mentally fucked up to think I am abandoning him or telling his he's worthless.)

So before we even were allowed to leave the Detention Center, they did a whole intervention/counseling session for all of us. Made us address eachother and say some things that we were holding on to. My daughter got to say she's mad and scared to her brother. He got to say he's sorry and scared too. It was cathartic and a STEP.

Turns out he did NOT take the drugs (yeah, I know, I didn't believe him at first either...but as the story unfolded over the next couple days it made sense) His friend was also drugged...some kid came over to hang out and said he had Xanax/Valuim and asked them if they wanted to. They said they were okay, no thanks. Then he slipped it into their drinks anyway...and proceeded to rob the other kid's house. (They lost jewelry, etc)
My kid's friend was lucky he didn't end up in a coma or something, he was literally knocked out for hours, his parents though he was just asleep for the night, he should have gone to the ER.

~~~Fast forward to Friday/Saturday~~~

We had a big weekend trip planned for my daughter's 16th Bday. It was iffy that we would have fun or it would explode
She brought a couple friends, so that was a buffer. And we were all going for a reason, not just the bday but some serious sightseeing and such. My son managed to hold it together. WE actually had some genuine laughter and silliness, like we used to. And I think he enjoyed the history, new sights, different environment for all of us
He sat in the front seat most of the way home and we just chilled out and made jokes like usual. He told me he's glad he has to get drug tested on probation, cuz then he's got a better reason to say NO to other kids and not to seek it. He's willing to find out about other meds he might need...I think the drugging episode really scared him. He kept asking about stuff that happened that night, he clearly doesn't remember and he was scared he couldn't even tell me what had happened because he was too fucked up to form the concept, much less the words. I don't think he's ever been that messed up...Kind of a "scared straight" moment for him. (He also says the whole need for weapons isn't against us, it's to PROTECT us. He keeps having dreams of someone breaking into the house and as the "man of the house" he's worried he can't be that protector... interesting...)

so he still has his door off his room. and I've still got things locked up and hidden for those argument nights. Meanwhile we see the probation dept monday afternoon.
Counseling grant has been extended 6 months, for ALL of us...together and separate.


I've decided to try and find another job during better hours so I can be home after school....please pray for that one, as we live in a rural area and jobs ain't easy to find. I've been with my current gig for 3 years and while I love it, it's just not okay that the hours are opposite my kid's being home after school....which is when they need us most.
Besides, how can I get him to his appt after school if I am not there to do the driving and watch out for him?

I got a LOT of work to do. This is far from over and I also feel a little sheepish that I thought so badly of my own child. I guess that will have to be addressed. It's all part of mending what got broken somewhere.


THANK YOU ALL for your continued love & support... Please keep us in your positive vibes, thoughts&prayers, etc
I'll try and keep you posted as this unforlds
also going to crosspost in Mental Health forum

[FirstLight]

36. I have so much to say///

but just saw this too late and tired to articulate. Will reply tomorrow! hang in there :hugs: