Help me out here! How does this work? If Mueller indicts tRUMP

[bluestarone]

Is it up to the Leadership of the house to start Impeachment process? Can he refuse? or does the whole house decide this? Same question for the senate. Basic question is, does the leadership make the decisions

[Eliot Rosewater]

1. Indicting is different from a referral to the House for impeachment.

One is legal or criminal, the indictment which would not involve Congress, the other is impeachment which has no criminal implications but can result in being removed from office.

Not certain about that last part that impeachment cant result in criminal charges but the point of impeachment is simply to remove from office.

An indictment is not likely per all the experts I have heard, not while he is pretend president (I refuse to call him president)

[marylandblue]

4. You are correct, impeachment can't result in criminal charges

But the information used in impeachment hearings can be used as evidence in a subsequent criminal case.

On edit: A lot of experts do say the pres. can't be indicted, but only one expert counts--Mueller. And he isn't talking.

[bluestarone]

6. TY Tell me how impeachment would come about?

What would Mueller likely do, if he found collusion and or obstruction? What's the process from that point forward?

[Eliot Rosewater]

7. House votes to impeach, if they do then the Senate has to and I think there has to be 60

votes in the Senate for him to then actually be impeached.

Not sure if it is 60 or more.

[Stallion]

12. 2/3rd -so 67 Votes for Conviction in Senate of Impeachment Charges

actually 2/3rd of Senators present

[Scoopster]

13. You won't get impeachment with this Congress.

You need a majority vote in the House to impeach, and the way the Republicans have acted there is no way that will ever happen (even if they peel off some votes - they need 20+). And then you need 67 votes in the Senate to convict & remove him from office, which is an even bigger hurdle. Even if the Dems have a stunning November 7 & flip a bunch of the GOP-held seats, I don't even think there are enough this cycle to get them to 60 & a cloture-proof majority.

[rsdsharp]

17. Cloture isn't involved in the impeachment process.

If a majority of the House votes to impeach, the case is tried in the Senate with the Chief Justice presiding. There really is no point in an impeachment without the required 67 votes to impeach, and I agree, there is no way to get there in the 2018 election cycle. There simply aren't enough Republican Senate seats up this cycle, even if the Democrats could somehow run the table.

[marylandblue]

2. Indictment and Impeachment are two separate processes

House could begin impeachment whenever it wants. Leadership controls the process, but there is a way for members to force a vote on starting impeachment from the floor. Don't look for the either to work with GOP on control. If Democrats win in Nov., you can expect at least a lot of investigations and hearings.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. Articles of impeachment originate in the House Judiciary Committee.

Any House member can submit proposed articles but they don't go to the full House unless approved by Judiciary. Then the full House votes on them. But even if Mueller indicts Trump (which he probably wouldn't do because ever since Watergate the policy of DoJ is that a sitting president can't be indicted), the decision to impeach a president is entirely that of the House. They don't have to do it, regardless of the evidence of crimes that Mueller might uncover.

[marylandblue]

8. It's not a DOJ policy that he can't be indicted

It's an opinion of the Office of Legal Council, which is not the same as a policy, and may not be binding on Mueller, and definitely not binding on Rosenstein. Also, if Mueller indicts despite OLC opinion, the court can overrule any DOJ opinion or policy.

[bluestarone]

11. Can you tell me Who does Mueller actually report too when he's does with the investigation?

Does he go right to the court system or to congress? TY

[marylandblue]

14. All indictments go through the court system

He also writes a report to Rosenstein, who should make it public, but can choose not to. If Mueller recommends impeachment, it would be in that report.

[PoliticAverse]

16. Mueller takes direction from and reports to Rod Rosenstein. n/t

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

15. This is true; I was imprecise. But because of the opinion and past practice

it probably won't happen. The U.S. Attorneys' Manual also advises against naming unindicted co-conspirators. But all of this is terra incognita, so we'll have to wait and see what happens.

[PoliticAverse]

5. For a detailed analysis/discussion of this issue, see....

Impeachment and Removal - Congressional Research Service - October 29, 2015
(.pdf) https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R44260.pdf

[bluestarone]

10. TY for this. And thanks to all others!!

It looks like quite a process! I will read it through. Gonna be interesting what congress does AFTER Mueller finishes his investigation for sure!!

[Rollo]

9. A long time ago I read that the impeachment powers of Congress are the one thing that all presidents

both fear and respect. That said, it seems to have been more of a political than criminal process, Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton as examples. High crimes and misdemeanors are whatever Congress decides they are.

However if Mueller were to come up with some truly damning evidence, it would not surprise me if there was a push to impeach even with a GOP House. We'll just have to see. If Trump were smart at that point he'd pull a Nixon and count on Pence giving him a Ford.

But then we've seen that while Trump may not be entirely stupid, his huge ego (and drug addled mind) may not allow him to do the wise thing.

What's that old Chinese curse? "May you live in interesting times"?

These are interesting times. What did we do to deserve this?