General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBernie urges respect for Trump supporters
https://www.expressnews.com/news/local/politics/article/Bernie-Sanders-I-believe-that-Texas-can-go-12742060.phpBernie Sanders: I believe that Texas can go blue
By Peggy Fikac
March 9, 2018
...
Sanders gave no quarter to his own party regarding efforts by the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee to undermine Congressional District 7 candidate Laura Moser in the Houston area. The senator called it absolutely unacceptable and drew a parallel to national Democrats efforts to thwart him in his primary battle with Hillary Clinton. Sanders rejected the idea that the national party should steer what it believes to be the strongest candidate to victory.
Let me get a little bit personal here, having gone through a little bit of that myself. You want to know who the strongest candidate in that district is? Let the people of that district make that decision. You want to know who the strongest candidate in the Democratic presidential primary is? Let the people of America make that decision, not a handful of people in Washington, he said.
With regard to battling Trump, Sanders urged respect when people who oppose the president talk to his supporters.
Our job is to talk to people, people who voted for Trump, respectfully. I do not believe that in Texas, or any place else, that most people who supported Trump are racists or sexists or xenophobes, Sanders said. I think they are people who are hurting, who want real change in the way our government works in terms of the needs of the middle class.
Senator if you had been the strongest candidate in the Dem primary you would've won. Get over it.
PaulX2
(2,032 posts)Too right?
John Fante
(3,479 posts)and Bernie received 3.8 million fewer votes than Hillary Clinton. Of the 10 most populous states, he carried one.
Facts.
PaulX2
(2,032 posts)Where I grew up Bernie got 6 times as many votes. Why?
John Fante
(3,479 posts)Hillary received 3.8 million more votes in it.
PaulX2
(2,032 posts)It's sad so many dems don't understand why he is so popular. Google oligarchy.
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)Bernie wasn't popular enough to win the presidential canidacy. It is time to move on with new Democratic candidates for 2018 and 2020.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Yet, despite the long odds, he still kicked azz, all things considered. Hillary got her 2nd chance - deservedly so - after falling to a relative unknown Barrack Obama. Bernie's incredible showing against a political powerhouse most certainly earns him a second shot at the 2020 nomination... assuming he wants it.
If not, here's hoping Elizabeth throws her hat into the ring... she'd be AWESOME!!
Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)And they will want someone who is transparent with their finances and their health.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Trying to change the subject doesn't work very well for refuting a statement...
sheshe2
(83,746 posts)She is running as Senator for MA and I will be voting for her.
Sorry that your dream team will not happen.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Bernie has made a career out promising stuff he cant deliver. Some people fall for that.
The old addage is that "Democrats fall in love and Republicans fall in line". I fell in love with Bernie and voted for him in the primary, but was awaked from the spell when it became clear to me that he was selling magic beans and there was no plan behingd the rhetoric.
That''s when I went all in for Hillary and never regreted it.
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)I know many former Sanders supporters have seen the light like you have, but too many cling to the magic dust, thinking it will someday turn into something solid.
Thank you!
LenaBaby61
(6,974 posts)Tell me that while they STILL support him/his ideals, they've fallen way off from supporting him like they used to--especially monetarily. A few also have told me that they've not been liking what they've been hearing reading about his wife Jane as well. She's been investigated or is being investigated for various thing, so we'll see how that plays out.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)And to be honest I don;t know WHO should be the 2020 candidate? And do not have a favorite.
LenaBaby61
(6,974 posts)Totally
But Bernie would have to withstand some nasty/tough vetting this time time around (Plus this 3-inch thick dossier thuglicans have on him allegedly whatever that is). He'd have to release his taxes (My friends don't like the fact that he hasn't done that and wonder why he hasn't, plus only fatso is the only person who can get away with that since most in the press don't give a fudge about his taxes ), and if something does come of the investigations concerning his wife Jane, the media will focus on THAT instead of whatever it is thuglicans run for POTUS in 2020.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Cha
(297,150 posts)sheshe2
(83,746 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Demonstrations of the idea that one can change one's opinion based on new data is refreshing to hear.
lapucelle
(18,250 posts)The parochial view of a limited demographic also explains why people like Trey Gowdy and Chuck Grassley win local elections.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Here's the thing. Bernie got a lot fewer votes than Hillary. He did! Really! And there are places where the 6-1 ratio is flipped the other way. Have YOU ever reflected on why THAT is? You may dismiss the reasons, but if you're going to be snarky like this, be careful to ensure your standing in glass house before you throw that stone.
Cha
(297,150 posts)if you're into Math.
BoneyardDem
(1,202 posts).....rather than take the time to peddle JPR and Bernie talking points. I'm sure there are sites where he is welcomed as a winner rather than someone who lost the Primary of a party he insults, and the Party that rejected him by well over 3,000,000 votes.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Universal health care, stronger banking regulation, affordable college and higher taxation on the wealthy arent radical democratic socialist ideas that challenge the structures of capitalism. Theyre boilerplate offerings familiar to any social Democrat.
George II
(67,782 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
Hekate
(90,645 posts)Eliot Rosewater
(31,109 posts)Where you grew up counted for how many votes in the entire primary exactly? If voters were trees, Bernie would won in a walk. Unfortunately for Bernie, the majority of voters were urban and Surburban, by a wide margin.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)simply not believable. Identify the precinct, please, so I can apologize for finding that claim an insult to my intelligence.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Not holding my breath.
MrsCoffee
(5,801 posts)Egypt right?
MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)I have to pick up more feed.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)You are aware you 're in DU world and thus facts matter?
Timewas
(2,193 posts)Anyone who still supports that asshat deserves zero respect
Cha
(297,150 posts)those who still support the sexual predatory, Russian mole?
Me.
(35,454 posts)JUst to be perfectly clear as that description may cover more than just one.
Yes, I know what you mean.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)deserve respect...not Democrats... hey Cha.
Cha
(297,150 posts)Eliot Rosewater
(31,109 posts)And we cant talk about it here?
sheshe2
(83,746 posts)Boom.
TheSmarterDog
(794 posts)BannonsLiver
(16,369 posts)Simple and to the point.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)TheSmarterDog
(794 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)to support Democrats and Democratic ideals?! Seems kinda rude and ungrateful to me.
TheSmarterDog
(794 posts)If he's such a Democrat with Democratic ideals, how come he's never even bothered to JOIN THE FUCKING PARTY?
Seems to me he's just an asshole who enjoys being outside the tent pissing in & fucking everything up. We need people willing to come inside the tent & piss out. Otherwise he's spoiler helping elect Republicans.
"Respect for Trump supporters" my ass.
sheshe2
(83,746 posts)I also do not agree with Bernie's constant trashing of the DEMOCRATIC party and the people here supporting said trashing.
Va Lefty
(6,252 posts)Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)Cha
(297,150 posts)snip//
"Sanders repeatedly refused to say why he didnt call out Russian involvement during the campaign. Clinton's campaign regularly raised suspicions of Kremlin-backed activity during the home stretch of the race."
https://upload.democraticunderground.com/100210272890
Where's the "respect", sanders?
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)You know, black and brown folk, the base of the party, who have been loyal as hell (even when insulted and ignored by people like you), have never turned on us and who will vote Democratic every time without having to be persuaded IF we just help them overcome the hurdles created by the people that Trump voters put into office.
But that would be "identity politics," so it doesn't work for you, right? So, you'd rather reach out to and talk to people who STILL support the despicable, racist president.
Please go away.
Go away BS
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
treestar
(82,383 posts)how to identify the base.
More_Cowbell
(2,191 posts)I agree that Trump voters are hurting. They've caused a lot more people to hurt. I'm not sure if talking to them nicely will help, but I am sure that attacking them won't.
UTUSN
(70,683 posts)aikoaiko
(34,169 posts)PaulX2
(2,032 posts)Standing on our principles will.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)No thank you.
aikoaiko
(34,169 posts)Remember these words:
"But the other basket -- and I know this because I see friends from all over America here -- I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas -- as well as, you know, New York and California -- but that other basket of people are people who feel that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they're just desperate for change. It doesn't really even matter where it comes from. They don't buy everything he says, but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won't wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroin, feel like they're in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well." ~HRC
BannonsLiver
(16,369 posts)Fixed it for you.
aikoaiko
(34,169 posts)onecaliberal
(32,826 posts)aikoaiko
(34,169 posts)We need more Americans to vote For Democrats across the country to win the WH and Congress.
It doesn't matter if we have 3 million more votes or 30 million more votes, we need to win the WH and congress.
onecaliberal
(32,826 posts)Whole damn point.
MFM008
(19,805 posts)Not ever.
Never.
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)and his constant attacking the Democratic Party. Note to Peggy Fikac: It's NOT HIS PARTY he's attacking. He is NOT A DEMOCRAT. He hates the Democratic Party. Fuck him.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I am so sick of Bernie! I wish he would just go away already!
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)But to urge respect for Trump voters? They won't elect Democrats in Texas...it will be Democrats who come out and do that.
melman
(7,681 posts)is the actual headline. A positive thing.
But of course it has to be twisted into another hate thread.
KPN
(15,642 posts)pointing out what is obvious to anyone who doesn't already have a prejudice.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)attacks on the DCCC are unnecessary and perhaps spiteful. I actually voted for Sen. Sanders in 16 but as you can see that won't happen again in a primary...I would vote for the Democratic candidate (yes Sanders if he won the nomination) in the general.
hueymahl
(2,495 posts)Bernie could invent a cure for cancer and they would find a way to bring up the election.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)More like, someone else could invent a cure for cancer and some folks would claim that Bernie should get full credit for it because, until he spoke at a cancer awareness rally in 1998, no one cared anything about the disease.
hueymahl
(2,495 posts)Both his supporters and detractors have an outsized opinion of his importance (bordering on obsession by some).
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Hekate
(90,645 posts)...a bit more meaningful.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)JCanete
(5,272 posts)Was your post thought through? Was not Sanders himself officially a Clinton supporter? How much of this is everybody who hates Sanders creating their own reality and confirming it in an echo chamber? If that's not the case here, I'd love to hear your evidence for your insinuation that Sanders is okay with hating on Clinton supporters.
WhiteTara
(29,703 posts)were not counseled in the same way. If I am incorrect, please provide a link or even two if you'd like.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)and telling people they need to have respect for him and ninety whatever percent of other Sanders supporters, since these people, when it mattered would have themselves been counted as Clinton supporters. He would have been lecturing to the exceptions and not the rule. I hardly think its the same thing, nor am I aware of a vocal criticism of Clinton supporters making the rounds in anywhere close to the way that people have taken up the chant of "deplorables."
Hekate
(90,645 posts)NOTE AFTER THE FACT: THIS IS MY ATTEMPT AT AN ANALYSIS OF WHERE BERNIE AND THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY DIVERGE, AND THE FACT THAT IT TAKES ME BACK TO THE PRIMARY SEASON DOES NOT MEAN I AM REFIGHTING ANYTHING; HE JUST CAME TO NATIONAL PROMINENCE THEN.
Bernie took advantage of our (Democrats') historical inability to tell friend from -- well, I wouldn't say "foe," but certainly our inability to recognize that not all Leftists are on board with core ideals of the Democratic Party. In his historically-based political philosophy, economic class distinctions trump absolutely all other concerns, which is why he lumps agitation about racism (Black Lives Matter) and women's full range of health (abortion rights) care etc etc etc into "identity politics." If economic justice is achieved, all else will automatically fall into place. (The record of political history shows this is probably not so, but then as a woman my analysis runs differently than his.)
Bernie was never a Democrat, until it suited him to run against one. Then he was. When he lost the primary election by millions of votes, he was dissatisfied with our choice, and took his own sweet time about either endorsing her or robustly campaigning for her. She was not only not his choice (he was), but she was imperfect in his eyes in so many other ways. She even won the popular vote in the general election by 3 million more votes than the orange "winner" got -- but she (and we) still lack that certain je ne sais quois.
Then he was not a Democrat any more. He will never be one again. His choice. And, true to form, in his eyes the Democratic Party and its adherents STILL lack that certain something, so he is going to spend the rest of his life telling us how to achieve perfection.
And that, JCanete, even includes telling us how to reach out to a tribe of racists and theocrats.
Personally, as a DUer who was here when discussions and info about Diebold waged white-hot, and as someone who understands the impact of the many voter-suppression techniques old and new, I have given these issues a LOT of thought. Those who agree with our core values are actually in the majority. I dearly wish that Bernie Sanders, while trying to bring about economic justice for all (including the racists and theocrats) would expend some of his abundant energy and rhetorical skills on fighting gerrymandering, vapor-trail electronic voting machines, suppressive voter ID laws, and all the other means by which the oligarchs and their helpers keep non-white non-GOP people from voting.
And that is how we can improve the lot of all Americans.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)he's right there as far as I'm concerned. They entrench all others. Taking up the class war in a meaningful way could put people of otherwise divided demographics on the same page for once! That would do so much work to help erode those negative misconceptions people have of one another. It would make such nonsense antiquated...counter-productive. It would take so much wind out of the sails of those who have a vested interest in propagating such hateful messaging because it could be pointed to as the cynical tool that it is-- a tactic designed to pit the 99% against itself and sideline any effort towards a common good. Of course it would hardly do all of the work. It would simply let the work actually happen.
As to Sanders opinion on all those things you mention, I know for a fact he's talked about suppressvie voter id laws and that very impact and intention. It just isn't the only thing at issue. If you continue to attack the symptoms and not the virus, the virus is going to get you eventually.
I have no idea what you're talking about regarding Sanders somehow taking advantage(should I read exploiting?) some nonsense about Democrats not being able to tell friend from foe. That isn't what happened here, and if that was always Sanders thing, to try to be relevant by tapping into something or another then he wouldn't have been a mostly obscure Senator/congressperson from vermont for a large portion of his life. No, instead he has remained remarkably consistent whether his message has had anybody to resonate with or not over the decades. And in terms of ideology and policy, he's been remarkably on the right side of things, in my opinion, just about every time.
To my major beef with your original post though, nothing at ll that you just said justifies you claiming sanders feels some way about how Clinton supporters should be treated. That he doesn't care or thinks its cool for them to be trashed, nor is that even a phenomenon I'm aware of amongst Sanders supporters for the most part. It certainly has not had the wings that "deplorables" has had. You just made it up out of whole cloth. You think that he should address a non-phenomenon that makes no sense at all when you consider(as I tried to point out), that Sanders himself officially supported Clinton. I'm happy to hash out these other things with you, but come on, isn't there somehting disingenuous about that original post, or simply hasty based on a feeling you have about him versus any real justification for making such an odd comparisson, and can't we please, avoid going down that road of truthiness on these boards?
Hekate
(90,645 posts)What good will wage parity do me if I do not also have access to the full range of women's medical care? If I can't obtain contraception and get pregnant? If I can't get an abortion and stay pregnant? If I have children whether by choice or by chance, and I cannot get maternity leave? What good does economic redistribution do me if I cannot get time off when my kids are sick?
It goes on and on. I was at one time a single mother. I got the job with the best benefits I could, and in my town that was as a confidential secretary at the University of California. Since I worked in Personnel, I knew all the salaries. My salary was exactly the same as that of a groundskeeper. Just for shits and giggles, I checked a few years ago, long after my retirement. They're still the same. So that was my wage parity -- me with a bachelor's degree (and at UC they really expect that), and the groundskeepers who, gods bless them, don't really need to speak or read English. They run a lawnmower; I ran an office.
Suppose, just for example, that I was African American (I'm not). How the hell is economic redistribution going to solve the problem of my son being being at risk of being shot and killed at the age of 12 at a public playground by white cops, or shot and killed by at the age of 17 by some asshole who thinks he has to stand his ground because my kid is walking along in a hoodie drinking ice tea and eating Skittles.
These problems and others like them are the reason I am a Democrat. I needed better wages back then, gods know I needed better wages. But if a magic fairy wand somehow gave every person in this sad nation a living wage, I swear to you it would not solve either of the problem-sets I just detailed here. We are fighting systemic racism and we are fighting systemic sexism and we are fighting many other systemic problems right alongside the economic issues. It is not "identity politics" to say that classical Socialist theory is not the entire answer.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)those problems could actually have a hope of being solved, because currently there is literally a financial incentive to feed hatred and mistrust in people and to get us to turn on ourselves, and until we channel that mistrust towards those who deserve it( the devil on one shoulder), and foster a grand message of mutual prosperity and common cause( the angel on the other), we will have little hope of dismantling that machinery that keeps churning out bigotry, and if we make headway for one group, another marginalized target will simply take its place as the scapegoat for whatever ills society has, because we have not inoculated the population against that poison. Getting us on the same side of an issue and making the rich the enemy of it...that's how you inoculate. (albeit, I'd prefer we humanize the rich too rather than to dust off the guillotines.., but making them an adversary in this cause is probably necessary.).
AND economic redistribution means there's still more money in otherwise oppressed communities. It means these people have a little bit more resources to fight for the causes that matter to them...just a little bit more bandwidth, maybe a little bit more time, nourishment...etc. That cannot be diminished in its value.
But just to be clear, none of those issues should be or need to be abandoned. They are made stronger with an economic message, not weaker. Showing the middle class that the poor is not the source of their woes is part of the work that needs to be done to get these voters to humanize who they once saw as their enemy(as just one basic example). Change the face of the enemy so that nobody gets their back up when you start eroding their misconceptions. Address those misconceptions by tying the propagation of such lies and caricatures, etc., appropriately, to the agendas of the moneyed elite. That takes the wind out of them. Not for everybody, but some...and we really only need some at first. A small percentage to come over and tip an election in our favor.
KPN
(15,642 posts)the article? Please share.
Cha
(297,150 posts)"Sanders repeatedly refused to say why he didnt call out Russian involvement during the campaign. Clinton's campaign regularly raised suspicions of Kremlin-backed activity during the home stretch of the race."
https://upload.democraticunderground.com/100210272890
RandomAccess
(5,210 posts)that Bernie blames Hillary for "allowing Russian interference," and frankly the extreme reach someone has to make to be able to make that claim is representative, to me, of pretty much all the rest of the reasons and rationale for the Bernie hating that goes on around here.
Cha
(297,150 posts)when he thought it would be a good idea to primary President Obama in 2012.. and it's gone way DOWN HILL since then.
Oh, and all this?.. Just one more thing he got Wrong.
Bernie Sanders blames Hillary Clinton for allowing Russian campaign meddling
http://www.mynbc5.com/article/bernie-sanders-blames-hillary-clinton-for-allowing-russian-campaign-meddling/18673015
Bernie Sanders Mirrors Trump, Blames Hillary Clinton for Not Combatting Russian Meddling, Denies It Helped His Campaign
http://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-trump-hillary-clinton-816239
Bernie Sanders blames Hillary Clinton for not stopping Russian election meddling
https://www.salon.com/2018/02/22/bernie-sanders-blames-hillary-clinton-for-not-stopping-russian-election-meddling/
Sanders: Clinton should have spoken up about Russian bots during election
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/374912-sanders-why-didnt-clinton-campaign-speak-up-about-russian-bots-during-2016
RandomAccess
(5,210 posts)First, the "blames Hillary" charge is nice clickbait but is NOT supported by any of those. Rubbish journalism is what I'd call it.
Second, you can't do a thing about something you don't know anything about. NO ONE realized the extent to which the Russians were interfering at the time.
From The Hill article:
In an interview with Vermont Public Radio, Sanders was asked why he did not warn his supporters leading up to the 2016 presidential election that Russian bots were attempting to sow division between him and Clinton by attacking Clinton on pro-Sanders social media forums.
"I did not know Russian bots were promoting my campaign," Sanders said. In the midst of all of this, I was out campaigning very hard for Hillary Clinton. So, let me leave it at that."
Sanders said a member of his team did speak with the Clinton campaign in September 2016 to warn them of "strange things happening" on social media, but suggested his opponents campaign had more information about the nature of the attacks.
"If you and your campaign knew there was Russian meddling and it was trying to sow division, why not take that directly to your supporters? radio host Jane Lindholm asked.
Sanders responded that the "real question to be asked" was why didn't the Clinton campaign do something.
"They had more information about this than we did. And at this point we were working with them, Sanders said. We knew what we knew, when we knew it. And thats about all I can say."
Cha
(297,150 posts)change reality.
RandomAccess
(5,210 posts)of company among Trump supporters.
TheSmarterDog
(794 posts)FTFY
Cha
(297,150 posts)the fix.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)the 16 election.
Response to Hekate (Reply #16)
George II This message was self-deleted by its author.
George II
(67,782 posts)He spends more time telling Democrats how to act instead of telling his own people (Our Revolution) how to act.
BannonsLiver
(16,369 posts)The contempt he has for PBO is and has been obvious. Why, I dont know, but I have a few ideas.
Cha
(297,150 posts)who didn't seem to have a clue why BS was not liked by so many.
I said I had plenty of reasons.. starting with when BS thought it was a good idea to primary President Obama in 2012.
njhoneybadger
(3,910 posts)TexasTowelie
(112,120 posts)I have a couple in my family.
I would say that most are sexist and homophobic also.
Stinky The Clown
(67,790 posts)Bye Bye Bernie
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)diva77
(7,640 posts)statement. Here is what Bernie said, as per the article:
The title of the OP appears to be an effort to fuel the criticism against Bernie. It would be helpful to use the words that were stated in the article.
Stand and Fight
(7,480 posts)I see no attempt to fuel criticism of Sanders. He does that all himself.
Cha
(297,150 posts)Fight!
KPN
(15,642 posts)Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)Let me get a little bit personal here, having gone through a little bit of that myself. You want to know who the strongest candidate in that district is? Let the people of that district make that decision. "
The insinuation is that he was attacked by the Democratic Party also and 'understands'...I find that comment unacceptable.
George II
(67,782 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)RandySF
(58,768 posts)Fuck no, it's not. He is not a Democrat.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)TheSmarterDog
(794 posts)Hekate
(90,645 posts)...to continue criticizing us. His criticisms would have more weight if he were truly committed to improving the Democratic Party from inside. He's not.
George II
(67,782 posts)....as an Independent.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)Hillary WON the primary by MILLIONS of votes, remember?
How is that related?
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)Let me get a little bit personal here, having gone through a little bit of that myself. You want to know who the strongest candidate in that district is? Let the people of that district make that decision. You want to know who the strongest candidate in the Democratic presidential primary is? Let the people of America make that decision, not a handful of people in Washington, he said.
Cha
(297,150 posts)about? Trying to rewrite history?
The People of America DID DECIDE, BS.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)Sorry, the math doesn't lie. There are almost FOUR MILLION easy to find facts which proves the truth
yardwork
(61,588 posts)I'm sure it's just a coincidence that Bernie's ongoing complaint that some shadowy oligarchy stole the election from him is exactly the same message that Russian troll farms promoted.
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)being pushed so strongly here especially the last couple days. The Russia hack indictments heat up and they have to float more conspiracies that Bernie was the victim. Hillary was the victim.
lapucelle
(18,250 posts)Has BS called upon Our Revolution to apologize for what it did to Sri Preston Kulkarni in Texas?
Has he called on Doug Beaton to resign from his leadership position in the Fort Bend county chapter of Our Revolution yet?
https://www.chron.com/news/politics/article/Sri-Preston-Kulkarni-congress-cocaine-fort-bend-12628329.php
KPN
(15,642 posts)opinion to himself, his mouth shut.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)KPN
(15,642 posts)What he said was nothing at all like some here prefer to interpret it as or spin it into.
Bernie is the Democratic Senate body appointed Chair for Outreach for a reason. To Outreach. That's what he is doing. Seems a lot better than throwing up walls. But I know, everyone who voted for a Trump or didn't vote is a racist, bigot, homophobe, misogynist deplorable.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)shouldn't hint that the 2016 nomination was stolen from him...I am done. I have bent over backwards to give him the benefit of the doubt but no more. He harms our electoral efforts with his ill advised comments.
Let me get a little bit personal here, having gone through a little bit of that myself. You want to know who the strongest candidate in that district is? Let the people of that district make that decision. "
KPN
(15,642 posts)It's a falsehood to say he did.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)Let me get a little bit personal here, having gone through a little bit of that myself. You want to know who the strongest candidate in that district is? Let the people of that district make that decision."
KPN
(15,642 posts)for may have been the/a result of Democratic Party putting their thumb on the scale as far as I can tell. Didn't say or mean the delegates were stolen from him.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)willing to consider it...you could be right, and if so I am being unfair. I hope you are right...benefit of doubt restored.
KPN
(15,642 posts)I will admit it and strive to be similarly gracious and credible. We all want dearly to win in 2018 and 20.
George II
(67,782 posts)....and the function of that person?
KPN
(15,642 posts)I'll most likely bring it up again, unless false accusations about what Sanders said or did while doing that job stop coming up. Yes, I do understand what the job entails as I mentioned in response to one of your responses to the other (apparently) two times I've mentioned his Democratic Party appointed role. Not sure that you do however.
back at ya and bye for now.
George II
(67,782 posts)Hassin Bin Sober
(26,325 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)Hassin Bin Sober
(26,325 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)lunamagica
(9,967 posts)choice, beating him by receiving almost FOUR MILLION more votes than he did. That is a FACT, and implying otherwise is simply dishonest.
KPN
(15,642 posts)unfairly and wrongly putting words in his mouth.
lapucelle
(18,250 posts)Let me get a little bit personal here, having gone through a little bit of that myself...You want to know who the strongest candidate in the Democratic presidential primary is? Let the people of America make that decision, not a handful of people in Washington.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)KPN
(15,642 posts)He has never said that Hillary won because of unfair rigging by the Democratic Party. He did say that he felt he didn't get some delegates he may have had the party not placed its thumb on the scale in some instances during the primary. He never said the primary was stolen. Substantial difference.
BannonsLiver
(16,369 posts)But I find people with large egos have a great deal of trouble with that sort of thing.
KPN
(15,642 posts)Cha
(297,150 posts)Do NOT like it.
lapucelle
(18,250 posts)Ron Green
(9,822 posts)just 3 years ago. What happened?
herding cats
(19,564 posts)Im just guessing, but I supported his run back then on that DU poll, too. Now Im older and wiser and want someone less polarizing and much more supportive of the Democratic Party.
Unity and winning matters to me now more than idealism. Been there, done that and Im still wearing the hair shirt in penance for ever thinking it was a good idea that would open dialogues. As it turns out we are not even nearly as evolved as a culture as I thought. I was wrong.
JI7
(89,247 posts)KPN
(15,642 posts)Hekate
(90,645 posts)For instance, if you ask a single question about a single person -- how many people "still have feelings" for Bernie (so to speak) he will very likely poll high. If you ask who would be a better president, Trump or Sanders, Grumpy Bernie will poll high.
But if you ask the reality-based question: given that Hillary Clinton won both the primary and the general elections by millions and millions of votes, who do you think would make the better president -- etcetera.
SHE WON.
betsuni
(25,464 posts)KPN
(15,642 posts)Why is it that when someone here defends Bernie, she or he gets told they belong at a site that is obviously loaded with anarchists and ultra left-wing nutjobs like JPR? It's insulting frankly.
betsuni
(25,464 posts)Geesh.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)It is not just here either.
George II
(67,782 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)LonePirate
(13,417 posts)That might possibly be the dumbest political opinion I have read this week and there have been some whoppers this week, like every week of this presidency.
nini
(16,672 posts)Case closed
ismnotwasm
(41,976 posts)Jesus Christ. How much clearer can they make it?
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)John Fante
(3,479 posts)vote in the last election. Our leaders should talk to them, not the trash that voted for Trump.
KPN
(15,642 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Many thought that Hillary would not need their votes. They did not know about Russian election meddling.
JI7
(89,247 posts)but not because of those that voted for Trump.
most who voted for trump will at best just not vote next time but most of them will not be voting for democrats. most still support him. it's why the republican congress isn't doing anything.
if those who voted for trump are actually good people who were misled then they already would have stopped supporting him and regret voting for him. but as we have seen most still support him.
Sophia4
(3,515 posts)who the Democratic candidates are.
It should be the voters.
The party bureaucrats should stay out of it. They should serve the voters, not direct the voters. In the general elections, after the Democratic candidate has been chosen, then they can and should actively support that candidate. But until the voters have chosen a candidate, the party bureaucrats should stay out of the campaigns.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Only Trump and Bernie supporters should have a voice?
Sophia4
(3,515 posts)But the established Democrats and the unestablished Democrats should compete on as even a playing field with regard to Democratic Party establishment support as possible.
I still think it is OK for the Party members to endorse a candidate.
I just think that up-starts or non-establishment candidates should have as equal a playing field as possible.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)it's called DEMOCRACY!!
nini
(16,672 posts)StevieM
(10,500 posts)election the voters didn't decide. Neither one of those things is true.
HRC got 4 million more votes than Bernie. The party leaders didn't help her, nor could they have even had they wanted to.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)voters. And the Party should not stay out of elections, it is their job to field candidates who can win...I hope Fletcher prevails...because Moser won't win. I only hope some have not poisoned the election with division and as a result we lose this opportunity.
mcar
(42,302 posts)My vote was my own. No Democratic Party leader was directing me or "putting their finger on the scale."
These are talking points that have no basis in reality.
Sophia4
(3,515 posts)That is the only way to heal the wounds on both sides of the subject.
See what people who disagree with you think.
I like Bernie, but I'm not an expert on the complaints that Bernie supporters have. I know some think that Democrats cheated, that the debate times were set up to make sure few people watched.
I think that Hillary didn't do nearly enough to reach out to Bernie supporters and perhaps even to Bernie after the nominating convention.
The rift in the Democratic Party needs to be healed.
And that is the job of the winner of the nomination and her supporters in this case. Sorry to have to say that, but when you win you have to console the loser(s). It's how things go.
mcar
(42,302 posts)I've never seen any evidence to support the claim that their votes were "directed." Unless and until that is shown, I have no interest in discussing unfounded talking points with people who cannot accept that their guy lost - by 4 million votes.
Democrats did not cheat, the debate issue was nonsense and the rest is as well. Why would I want to discuss things with people that just are not true?
People are entitled to their own opinions, not to their own facts. I'd be happy to discuss facts with Bernie supporters. But I have no interest in discussing a person's "feelings" about such issues.
I won't even dignify the "Hillary didn't reach out to Bernie" canard with a comment.
Sophia4
(3,515 posts)like insuring that elections are fair for all who want to participate, like how to make healthcare even more affordable for all, like racism, like caring about others, the issues that bring Democrats together.
You don't have to talk about accusations of unfairness in voting.
Talk about the shared values. Talk about good candidates for offices other than president.
Begin this conversation when you can.
Bernie campaigned for Hillary because when you come down to it liberals/progressives agree on so many, many fundamental values.
Try to begin the dialogue.
Don't be put off if the Bernie supporter responds with anger. There is a lot of hurt out there.
But if we really want to win in November and put our policies into law, we have to reconcile and get along and work together.
Those important goals should be what is most important to everyone.
mcar
(42,302 posts)I'm involved with my local Democratic party. I'm working hard to elect Democrats here in Florida.
I support the Democratic Party platform. I would think anyone who calls themselves liberal or progressive would.
We are here. We are working to elect Democrats. I welcome anyone who shares those values.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)You seem to be a good earnest person. But the people that you want to "reach out" are not the people that are advocating blowing up democrats in general races because those democrats were not "progressive" enough. If it was left up to the hardcore Bernie supporters, we would have Roy Moore as US Senator from Alabama, those supporters actually advised not voting, fortunately 97% of African Americans and 29% of Whites in Alabama did not listen.
Listening is a two way street, I see only one side issuing absolutes, that is Bernie supported Our Revolution.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)my vote for Hillary in the Florida primary. Then I was given a cookie for being a good democrat. Lots of people across Florida got cookies that day.
mcar
(42,302 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)I voted early because I knew Hillary cookies would go fast, a little birdie landed on my lectern and told me so.
Seriously, Hillary rolled Bernie by like 23% in Florida.
George II
(67,782 posts)Cha
(297,150 posts)http://www.lubbockonline.com/news/20180310/us-sen-sanders-rallies-in-lubbock-of-all-places
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1078&pid=38443
I will take the Democratic Party over BS anytime, anywhere.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Initech
(100,063 posts)You can't respect these people. You can't reason with them. They are batshit fucking crazy. Sorry Bernie but I don't think you'll win very many fans on this.
Aristus
(66,316 posts)KPN
(15,642 posts)Geesh. Can't get much more misleading and biased than this.
JNelson6563
(28,151 posts)mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)dis Trump supporters, he knows what we all think of them and I'm sure he thinks something similar. He makes it a point to be like 'show respect, try to convince, etc' cuz there's no HARM in him saying that.
This sort of goodwill toward TX citizens, coming from someone SEEN as a 'liberal vanguard' ... serves our side well, honestly.
Those of you bent about any of THIS?
I just gotta disagree. Nothing bad about this IMHO.
yardwork
(61,588 posts)This divisive talk seems designed to lose elections for Democrats.
He still thinks that he would have won the primaries if the mean ile DNC hadnt preferred a Democrat!
Hes delusional!
KPN
(15,642 posts)extrapolated that out of what he said -/ unjustifiably. Bernie has never said that the primary was stolen from him. That is an outright falsehood. He has consistently said the DNC stacked the deck in HRCs favor -- which is a perception that even some of our party's leadership have shared.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)Let me get a little bit personal here, having gone through a little bit of that myself. You want to know who the strongest candidate in that district is? Let the people of that district make that decision."
KPN
(15,642 posts)that and the primary was stolen from him.
Don't you agree?
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)This is untrue and divisive.
KPN
(15,642 posts)Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)yardwork
(61,588 posts)He was allowed to run as a Democrat in our Democratic primaries, despite the fact that he's not a Democrat and constantly criticizes the Democratic Party.
Bernie was given a platform and space on the primary ballots in all 50 states. He won some states and lost others. In the end, Hillary got more votes.
I think that Bernie was very treated fairly by the Democratic Party.
Response to yardwork (Reply #176)
Post removed
yardwork
(61,588 posts)lapucelle
(18,250 posts)"The senator called it 'absolutely unacceptable' and drew a parallel to national Democrats efforts to thwart him in his primary battle with Hillary Clinton."
https://www.expressnews.com/news/local/politics/article/Bernie-Sanders-I-believe-that-Texas-can-go-12742060.php
Cha
(297,150 posts)betsuni
(25,464 posts)as if it were some sort of proof of non-progressive corruption is pretty rich. As an elder statesman, he is establishment. He seems to be showing more respect to Republicans than to Democrats and should think harder about this, in my opinion.
yardwork
(61,588 posts)What's up with that?
Cha
(297,150 posts)Booom.
moriah
(8,311 posts)Maybe this is nuts, but the Cartman/Heidi storyline in Season 21 of South Park pointed something out about human nature, and was brought home of course by having a character say "No, I think we're ALL dating Cartman right now."
But the more a person is attacked and called stupid for doing something as stupid as voting for Trump or dating an emotionally manipulate jackass, people dig in. They had a scene where Heidi's friends, who had all been begging her to leave Cartman, kept on and on dissing him even after she left him, which she ended up taking as an attack on her intelligence... and went back to Cartman.
Essentially, I have been leaving my Trump regretting friends to say what they dislike and why, and not berate them for voting for the jackass, and I'm not engaging non-regretters yet about it. If they start showing remorse, I just let them say it without saying "I told you so".
It's *totally* strategic. First, I live in a conservative area which means yes, I have conservative friends/family. I don't want to bang my head against the wall with those who don't yet realize their error and waste my breath. I also want them to feel like they CAN talk to me about their regrets. A few already have said it themselves that they were idiots for letting CDS make them vote for someone so wildly incompetent. I am hopeful more will.. And if they don't, well, I'm using my energies for more constructive things, like motivating Dems to register and vote.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)as well as win voters. It isn't always all about his freaking campaign. He needs to make it clear that what's wrong is wrong and should not be given aid and comfort.
yardwork
(61,588 posts)I strongly disagree with Bernie's implication that "a few people in Washington" stole the nomination from him. Hillary won the nomination because she got more votes from the people. Bernie is being a sore loser by bringing up the 2016 primaries over and over and implying that some "establishment" robbed him. It's dividing Democrats, which depresses turnout.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)sheshe2
(83,746 posts)He can't let it go.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)That's what Bernie should be saying and that's ALL he should be saying.
KPN
(15,642 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Link to tweet
He also says he's known Jeff for a long time. That I can believe. I haven't but what I've learned in the last six months is appalling. Yes he voted against him but so did 46 Democrats so he gets no points for that. Sessions is an out-an-out racist provocateur and opposing him at every turn -- like California and several other states are doing -- should be Bernie's #1 theme because what Sessions is trying to do is bring back the Jim Crow era or worse.
Tavarious Jackson
(1,595 posts)R B Garr
(16,950 posts)really about.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Want open primaries. Most detest the principles of the Democratic Party and want to rip us apart. There are many progressive and good people who had or still are aligned with the ones that want to destroy us.
BannonsLiver
(16,369 posts)madaboutharry
(40,208 posts)I am also sick of him and his whining about the election. He is an angry bitter man and his negativity is tiresome. No wonder his nickname in Washington is the Senate Scold.
VOX
(22,976 posts)And therein lies the problem.
Shamelessly ruffling down the feathers of Trumpskyites is pretty much unnecessary, unless one is trying woo votes from an ideological bloc thats somewhere to the right of Genghis Khan. Hmmm...
DrDan
(20,411 posts)tymorial
(3,433 posts)DFW
(54,345 posts)"You want to know who the strongest candidate in that district is? Let the people of that district make that decision."
I couldn't agree more!
-----------------------------
"You want to know who the strongest candidate in the Democratic presidential primary is? Let the people of America make that decision......"
NO! That is self-serving crap to rationalize your primary run and forcing the DNC to let it happen under their nose and auspices. Let the members of the DEMOCRATIC Party make their own decision about the DEMOCRATIC candidate. Not Republicans. Not Independents. Not temporary Democrats-for-convenience, either.
-----------------------------
With regard to battling Trump, Sanders urged respect when people who oppose the president talk to his supporters.
Our job is to talk to people, people who voted for Trump, respectfully. I do not believe that in Texas, or any place else, that most people who supported Trump are racists or sexists or xenophobes, Sanders said.
You don't? When is the last time you spent a few weeks in Texas talking to Trump voters? Don't bother answering that. I know the answer, because I was in Texas in January, and have talked to a few Trump voters. They were either racists, sexists or xenophobes, and usually some combination of two or all three. I DID talk to them respectfully, which more than they deserved (and more than I got from them).
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)any future primary...the general sure...but he is unlikely to win a Democratic Primary... and should not be permitted to enter one.
Let me get a little bit personal here, having gone through a little bit of that myself."
Really, I guess you should remain an independent and not run for the Democratic nomination in 20 and risk 'going though it again'. Sen. Sanders is dividing the Democratic electorate with such ill advised words (why), and we could lose the Texas General because of it/ consider, if Moser loses, some may refuse to vote for Fletcher (sound familiar?)...and if she wins the primary, I don't think she can win that seat. I don't think the DCCC handled this matter badly but it is not a conspiracy...they just don't think Moser can win, and I think they are correct.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)supporters need 'respect'...Okay that makes absolutely no sense.
OnDoutside
(19,953 posts)MrsCoffee
(5,801 posts)There is no making nice with nazis.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Fuck all the assholes who imposed that evil bastard on the USA and the world!
You are either 100% against fascism and racial hatred or you are 100% with it! Its time to crush these MFers once and for all and if ANY pol wants to slip in between the two sides, he or she is on the side of EVIL as far as I'm concerned!
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)lunasun
(21,646 posts)They DID want real change I will agree with you there Bernie . We are seeing it everyday
Yes Bernie that is why there are so many white supremacists in the White House now
and why the WH is pulling out of climate change forums , removing environmental restrictions , trying to stop peaceful acts against police violence and promoting propaganda that it's really about hating the military, destroying any advancements Obama made and giving tax cuts instead of services .
Trump is thier real change desired by playing to hateful violent racists, advocating Muslim bans , demonizing immigrants and pushing Christian religion into government .
That was the trump campaign and they pulled the lever .
They will only be sorry that not enough of what he does benefits them personally if sorry at all
MAGA Bernie
He does not even talk respectfully about the Democratic party but some how the trump voters will vote for them when his socialist revolution comes about
PubliusEnigma
(1,583 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)No, just as she had every right to run again - and managed to secure the nomination - Bernie should be afforded that same option.
Joediss
(84 posts)Live and raised in northeast Texas , believe me ,these God damn racists homophobes don't deserve any respect . In a doctor office yesterday, there was a couple of trumpers talking about how much they like bill O'Reilly , and couldn't figure out how come he wasn't on any more. They are not for anything, they just hate dems.
mcar
(42,302 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)BannonsLiver
(16,369 posts)Ill take a hard pass on that one, Bernie.
Nailzberg
(4,610 posts)MineralMan
(146,286 posts)He made a try for the White House and failed at the primary level. He retains his Senate seat, and that's just fine with me. He is a reliable vote with the Democratic Caucus there.
However, he has returned to his Independent status, following the 2016 election. He is welcome to that status, but is less welcome, in my opinion, to pontificate on Democratic Party issues.
I like Bernie Sanders for who he is and what he represents. But, he doesn't represent me in Democratic politics. Not much at all. I wish he'd sit down and be an Independent Senator again. He needn't meddle in Democratic Party choices, I think.
onetexan
(13,036 posts)he shouldn't be speaking on behalf of Democrats. He is not a Democrat. Most of us don't want a hypocritical candidate masking as a Dem then say he's not one after the election.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)The people of America did decide the strongest candidate in the Democratic Presidential primary.
It wasn't you, Bernie.
Sid
Quayblue
(1,045 posts)FreeStateDemocrat
(2,654 posts)Most of us have to deal with them on a daily basis, while he has security people to keep PINO's crazies away from any personal interaction. No matter how much destruction PINO and his minions unleash, he'll still be living the good life far away from the maddening hordes, so shut the fuck up and/or just go away.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,109 posts)the GARBAGE he just said?
jesus fucking KRIST
mcar
(42,302 posts)Devil Child
(2,728 posts)This should have never been allowed to proceed. I say this as a Sanders supporter and voter during the primaries. It seems they were Ok with the thought of having "controlled opposition" to help drum up support from progressives who identified with Sander's message. A safe fringe token candidate who wouldn't go far so was the general belief in those early days. Well the DNC, as always, misread their voters and he gained traction in an unanticipated way.
Now all I hear is sour grapes and regret. Bernie should go away. Blah blah blah. Well actions have consequences and the DNC opened the Pandora's box. I would respect the DNC more if they moved decisively to exclude him from any Democratic Party role. But until they do, he is here and here to stay.
In regards to respect for Trump supporters, well to hell with that. A supporter of Trump to me is an enemy of my values. A person who voted for Trump but not a supporter? Maybe there is some hope for that person, maybe they can be reached and deserve a modicum of respect but don't expect me to go out of my way for that Bernie.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)And won't make a mistake letting him run in 2020. What the party did not anticipate was that Bernie would be sore if he lost, which he was and still seem to be. He did not help Hillary much at all, his latest comments should make WHY clear to anyone that claims he did help her.
I am concerned that if Bernie is in the primary in 2020 and Biden, or Harris, or Gillibrand, or Kennedy, or Warren soundly beat him, we may see a replay of the 2016 democratic convention, but I just pray that the sane progressives that did not vote because they thought Hillary had it, make it a point to vote in the 2020 General, eliminating any
need to rely on the Sarandon-West type of thinkers.
Gothmog
(145,129 posts)We need to concentrate our efforts on groups who will vote for Democrats. Deplorables are a waste of time
Cha
(297,150 posts)GOTV and Respect all those voters who lean Democratic.
Gothmog
(145,129 posts)We have significant African American and Asian communities that when added to Latino voters make Texas a majority minority state.
According to Paul Begala, Texas is not a red state but a non-voting state. The increased turnout in the Texas primary was an encouraging sign of Texas moving toward blue.
Link to tweet
As younger voters become a large percentage of the electorate, Texas will turn blue
Link to tweet
Cha
(297,150 posts)Texas needs to be a Voting State, stat!
Thank you for those charts and tweets denoting the gradual increase of young Dems' Voting.
Gothmog
(145,129 posts)It is not fun but we will succeed at some point.
Cha
(297,150 posts)Muchas Gracias for all ya'll's perseverance, dedication, and persistence!
mythology
(9,527 posts)There are some who aren't reachable of course, but just like not everybody in Germany, not even every Nazi had hated Jewish people prior to the rise of Hitler, or after the fall of Hitler, people have the capacity to learn to hate and to unlearn it. If you want to convince somebody that Trump is wrong, you probably aren't likely to convince them by saying they must be racist, sexist, xenophobic etc.
But he really needs to give up the nonsense about the Democratic party screwing him. He lost the primaries by a substantial margin. Those votes weren't faked. He lost because the vision he had was less popular than the one Clinton had.
jalan48
(13,859 posts)jalan48
(13,859 posts)Cha
(297,150 posts)jalan48
(13,859 posts)Cha
(297,150 posts)BS is like President Obama.. they are Light Years apart.
jalan48
(13,859 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Democratic voters picked the strongest candidate in the democratic primary in 2016. Hillary wiped your ass soundly, no one in Washington held the hand of primary voters and forced them to vote for Hillary.
ellie
(6,929 posts)No. He needs to GO AWAY.
Response to dalton99a (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
riversedge
(70,187 posts)Cha
(297,150 posts)thanks for thinking of that very important point!
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)how little I care about what Bernie urges. I can't stand listening to him and seeing that scolding finger waving.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)have clearer vision now.
Cha
(297,150 posts)Link to tweet
Those idiots behind the creep cheering on his bile laced face.
I know what you mean, Riff.. and we are so not alone.
Cha
(297,150 posts)kentuck
(111,079 posts)What have Trump supporters done to earn any respect from anyone??