DNA Heritage Tests - Why Would E. Warren or Anybody Bother?

[MineralMan]

I don't get it. I see the ads. Some guy discovers that his background isn't German but Irish, and then gives his old Lederhosen to Goodwill. Some woman finds out she has some Native American ancestry, and starts collecting Native American pottery. Who cares, really?

I know my parents. I knew my grandparents. Frankly, I don't care about my "heritage." I'm supposed to be Scottish/Irish in genetic background. But, what on earth is significant about that? My brother had a red beard. Was there a stray Viking in the family genes? Probably, but, again, who cares?

My wife's great-grandfather came to the US from Norway. He spoke Norwegian, as did my wife's grandmother, his daughter. Ever since then, everyone spoke English. I'm the only one in the extended family who can say the traditional Norwegian table grace and pronounce it correctly. Nobody else cares about any of that, except peripherally.

We are who we are. We are what we have become. We are not what our ancestors were.

Save your money. Skip it. It doesn't matter, anyhow, really.

[Archae]

1. These "DNA tests" are bogus.

I don't remember where I saw it, but a couple people sent their DNA samples to several companies and got back wildly different results as to what nationality they are.

I already know my own nationality, my Dad's family is German-Russian. (Germans who settled near the Volga about 150 years ago.)

My Mom's family is Dutch, Danish, Swedish and Irish.

[MineralMan]

3. My wife's father's family were Volga Deutsch.

He grew up in Lincoln, NE, where many settled.

[CanonRay]

8. I've taken several DNA tests

and always gotten consistent results. My brother got very similar, but not exact, results as mine. In get DNA matches to other people, and then comparing their genealogy to my own, I've been able to confirm with DNA much of my paper genealogy work.

[pnwmom]

114. The DNA test I got even cited the same two counties where my father had found his relatives.

Apparently I have thousands of relatives there. So that was pretty impressive.

[BannonsLiver]

26. Ive taken 3 and the results are more or less the same.

[Mariana]

74. In the few cases in which there really are "wildly" different results

I'd expect contamination to be the cause.

[StarryNite]

109. My daughter just received her results.

We were very impressed with how accurate they were. They connected her to family members who my brother was connected to when he had his done by the same lab in 2000.

[Mariana]

122. My cousin had it done.

His DNA results jibe exactly with what the records say they should be.

[USALiberal]

123. I found relatives that I lost, it has been amazing. Nt

[Blue_Adept]

2. That's some bold white privilege rolling out there

Consider the usefulness for many African Americans who have no idea of their own heritage with it being lost.

Or the corners of families that were shunned for generations that can now be known.

For those who were orphaned and would want to know their roots and possibly find out more.

Lots of people care. For lots of people it's just a curiosity to be ignored.

It's less of an issue in monocultures to be sure, but here it represents something very different and a path to understanding "self" that may not have been there before.

That said, I do know where you're coming from. My family heritage is largely Scottish from my father's side with them emigrating from there in the late 30's. but there's curiosity on my mother's side as part of the family history was lost in a divorce back in the 30's and a side that I have no clue about. And, like a lot of families that have been here for a long time, there's Native American in that history as well that I'm curious about.

BUT

I have no real grand desire to find out. I'm one of a great many that have no real "culture" to lean back into like others do, and sometimes that makes me envious and other times it makes me feel like I couldn't care less because I'm not bound by it. So I get that "who cares" aspect of it.

[MineralMan]

5. If one is curious, then it's fine, of course.

I have no problem with people doing it. I just don't see the utility of it, really. I wouldn't spend any money on such a thing.

In any case, I support Elizabeth Warren's position on not bothering with it.

As for my white male straight privilege, I know it and realize its impact.

As an aside, I get some interesting looks from people when I tell them that my mother's name is Lawanda. I find that more than a little amusing, I have to say.

[Bonx]

39. "I have no problem with people doing it. I just don't see the utility of it"

= most things in life. Don't sweat it.

[Hortensis]

119. I see great utility in intellectual curiosity, and if

intellectual curiosity is multiplied because it's all about ourselves, fine.

I know you're at all deficient in intellectual curiosity, MM, so I was mildly surprised that your own hits a wall in this direction. But we're all wildly complex, and your immediate family identity is very rich, so why not?

Our daughter got her background for a birthday present from her husband, and her dad and I, and her brother and his family, were all quite interested in the results. Our most recent ancestors were all immigrants not that far back from countries that were between wars; there were only a few of them, and most history that was passed down by the most recent generations was not recorded, lost to memory and then to the grave. Notably blank is my Jewish husband's, eastern European Ashkenazi Jewish background genetically, adopted in 1940 in NYC with no record disclosed.

[scarletlib]

7. I agree.

I cannot speak for the reliability of any one particular test there are reputable ones out there. National Geographic has for years now been collecting DNA and building a World Map of where we all came from and the various routes that humans spread throughout the world.

Most of us in the USA since we are a nation of immigrants will have DNA from various and sundry ethnic groups.

I think it is valuable research because it shows at its base that as humans we are all essentially related in some way.

No one group is superior to another. We are all brothers and sisters and cousins.

[leftstreet]

21. I don't think that was the poster's point

Obviously some people might have an interest

But there's been a run of weird OPs lately, practically scolding people who don't have an interest in getting DNA tests.

[dalton99a]

4. In search of purity

No wonder:

[MineralMan]

6. LOL!

Well, I'll be a monkey's uncle!

[madaboutharry]

9. My main issues are privacy concerns.

When you send in the sample you give ownership rights of your DNA to a for profit corporation.

Though I do admit, I have always been curious where the 6ft+ fair skinned people on my father's side of the family came from. Just not enough to jump on the DNA kit bandwagon.

[MineralMan]

10. As long as all my past ancestors came from planet Earth,

I'm good.

[madaboutharry]

12. I agree.

[ProfessorGAC]

75. Wish I Could Say That With Certainty, MM

But my wife's convinced i'm really from another star system. Who knows? She could be on to something.

[MineralMan]

92. Well, that's on you, isn't it?

[bigtree]

11. Dad's parents shed any identification they had with their Indian ancestry

...hid it, really, when they moved from Black Mountain NC up north to Pennsylvania.

It wasn't considered by them to be a welcoming attribute in their new town, and they relied on a common association of their dark skin with whatever African heritage they had. It was actually more socially acceptable to be black than Indian, in that time for them, so any ID died with them, perpetuated only by a few surviving stories of the past from a dwindling number of offspring.

Thing is, in Black Mountain, there was a history of blacks in flight from slavery, and Indians on the run, as well taking refuge there for generations after the periods of enslavement, persecution, and unrest. Many tribes intermingled with other tribes, as well with populations of Asians who were effectively chased off and abandoned after the railroads were finished.

I don't think there's enough accounting for just how much our nation is truly a 'melting pot' of ethnicities and origins.

[MineralMan]

14. It has always been my assumption that anything is possible

in one's ancestry. It's just that I don't see how any of it matters in real terms. We are as we are, whatever genetic or cultural background we might have. It is who and what we are as people that matters, not who got together back in time.

Very few people can trace their ancestry farther back than four or five generations. Some can, and do, but most people have a two or three-generation knowledge, and they're fine with that. Beyond that level, genetic divergence takes over, really.

[bigtree]

19. a search to determine ancestry can be a necessary one

...for instance, an effort to determine or declare Native American ancestry may be motivated by issues of benefits, royalties, and government recognition.

There are also medical issues associated with genetic inquiries.

[MineralMan]

46. My father was born in Oklahoma. There has always been this story

about some sort of Cherokee ancestor, somewhere in the mix. Could be. I don't know. As with other stuff, it would not matter to me, one way or another. As far as genetic questions are concerned, both of my parents are still alive at age 93. Likely my own genes are relatively sound, based on that. My wife's generational relatives mostly seemed to live into their 90s, and we attended her maternal grandmother's 100th birthday party. So, she seems OK in that respect as well.

Testing for genetic health issues is a different thing, really. People who do not know their genetic history have reason to do that sort of testing, I think, if they wish to. But that's not the same reason as general ancestry testing, really.

Again, I don't care if people do any of that stuff. I just don't personally see the utility of it. Insisting that others, particularly political figures, do it is the reason for my thread. Elizabeth Warren has whatever family history she has. She's satisfied with her story. Why would anyone care, really, one way or the other? If she wants to have the tests, that's fine. If not, that's fine, too. It's none of my business, really.

If there's some sort of tribal enrollment issue, that's another reason to do it, I suppose. Mostly, though, this stuff is just vanity testing.

[bigtree]

48. is it really 'just vanity?'

...is that something you can measure?

Or is it just your sense of the matter? I've seen a lot of compelling reasons on this thread in response to your original query that are more than vanity.

It sounds like your own indifference (and apparently limited scope of knowledge) may be clouding your judgement of this issue. Interesting responses, despite the skepticism they received from you in your replies.

[MineralMan]

59. It's my opinion. Everything I write here is my opinion.

Others have different opinions. Everyone gets to express an opinion on DU. See my signature line. You have a different opinion from mine. That's also recognized in that signature line.

Do you think Elizabeth Warren has a responsibility to have the test? I mentioned her in my title, because people saying that she did have such a responsibility triggered my original post.

[bigtree]

62. I think most of the people who have an issue with her accounting of her heritage

...don't care about facts like test results to make their characterizations of the Senator..

[MineralMan]

65. I named her in the title of my post for a reason.

That's what the post is about, along with my personal opinion of such tests.

[bigtree]

66. that's why I provided concrete reasons for testing

...in response to your query, 'why would anyone bother?' associated with Indian heritage.

There's a big difference between 'should' Warren be compelled to test, and why would anyone bother.'

[MineralMan]

67. My words don't carry all that much weight, bigtree.

Just one anonymous guy's opinion. It remains my opinion, too. But, so what?

[bigtree]

76. your opinion

..."Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”

― Isaac Asimov

[samnsara]

55. both grandparents came from Oklahoma...born in the territory..NA stories everywhere in our oral

history but NO NA DNA!! what a surprise.

[MineralMan]

57. Not surprising, really.

[bigbrother05]

61. Government recognized tribal affiliation has to be proven via enrollment records

The only way DNA testing would come into play would be to demonstrate parent-child relationships in lieu of documentation.

My membership is based on my Grandmother being on the Dawes rolls and my father's birth certificate linking him to her. I link to my dad and my kids link to me, so we're all members of the Cherokee Nation (Oklahoma). Never having taken a DNA test, I can't opine on the outcome, but it would be possible that my Grandmother wasn't 100% Cherokee even though she was considered full blooded.

On my mom's side, there was talk that some NA ancestry existed, but no one could point to a specific relative and we've never even looked for a link.

Guess what I'm saying is that I agree with you, doesn't much matter in general, unless it does. Growing up in a place like Oklahoma or other locations with deep NA ties brings a different perspective as it can have benefits attached.

[pnwmom]

115. Some people are interested in history and some aren't.

Genealogy is a way of tracing personal family history, and DNA testing can be part of that.

[First Speaker]

13. Stop making sense, dammit...

[MineralMan]

15. I can't. It must be in my genes.

[el_bryanto]

16. I am adopted - i have complicated feelings about this

On the one hand I would be curious to know - but on the other. People react differently to being adopted, and I would strongly encourage anybody to feel free to tell me I'm wrong for feeling the way I do - but after watching my Brother and particularly my Sister look into who adopted them, it just . . . feels disloyal to my Mom and Dad who raised me to worry a lot about someone who gave me up - maybe it was a tough decision, maybe not; but I really consider myself my Father's son in every way that matters.

But it is a complex set of feelings and I can totally see and accept that other people might feel completely different even with very similar input.

Bryant

[MineralMan]

22. That is truly a dilemma.

I can understand that, for sure. Eventually, DNA testing may be able to answer a number of health questions that people who don't know their ancestry have. Some such testing is already available, but very costly.

I'm really only referring to the basic testing that claims to be able to identify places where ancestors may have come from. That, to me, seems pretty useless. I would be curious about any Neanderthaler genetic traits I carry, though. That would be interesting. However, since I decided not to reproduce over 50 years ago, it doesn't really matter.

[Pendrench]

84. Hi Bryant - I'm not adopted, but both of our children are.

In both cases, we encouraged our kids to reach out to their birth-families (if they wanted to).

For our son it was pretty easy - we stayed in touch with his birth-mom, and when he finally asked if he could meet her (he was 18 at the time) we were able to arrange a meeting. He told us that he was afraid how we were going to react, but we always told him that we wanted what was best for him. And for us, things worked out great. Since that first meeting, he has met more of his extended birth-family, as have we...in fact, not only do we spend holidays together when we can, this past weekend my wife and our son's birth-mom went out to lunch, not only is she family, she is a very dear friend. And to our son my wife and I are Mom and Dad - and his birth-mom always refers to us as his parents...but we also refer to her as his mom.

For our daughter it was a bit trickier...she was adopted from Latvia, and we had very little background information. As it turns out, we were able to find family (mostly cousins) using a DNA test...so I do see the value in these tests. But it was really Facebook that helped the most. We sent out our story, and it made its way to a young lady in Latvia who was able to find and connect with our daughter's birth-mom. And we were also able to find a brother (living in the UK) and a sister (living in France)...in fact, last summer our daughter spent 2 weeks with her sister in Spain

So sometimes it works out - and we were lucky in both situations.

And you are so right - it can be a very complex set of feelings.

So I wish you the best in whatever you decide to do.

Tim

[pnwmom]

96. It should be whatever feels right to you -- but it wouldn't be a sign of disloyalty to your parents.

My extended family includes several adopted members, and no one would feel hurt if they wanted to explore their origins.

[nini]

110. A third cousin found me...her mother was adopted.

She lost her mother a while ago and finding relatives has helped her with her grief. Shes a diehard liberal too. We have do much in common.

[alarimer]

17. It is basically a scam.

For big companies to get your personal information and use it for their purposes.

[Crepuscular]

18. Many reasons

There are other reasons besides determining ethnic makeup, to have DNA samples taken.

In my case, I'm adopted and recently due to a medical situation I found that I needed to try and locate biological relatives to obtain medical information. I'm in my 50's and had never searched for my biological parents. The process of trying to obtain the desired information through the courts, to open a closed adoption, seemed to be ridiculously complex, time consuming and expensive. So instead I decided to submit a DNA sample on the off chance that I could find a distant relative that might point me in the right direction for finding closer relatives, who could provide the information that I needed. Amazingly, within one day of receiving back my DNA results I was able to locate my biological parents, both of whom are still alive, as well as finding out that I had 3 half siblings and a bunch of nieces, nephews, cousins, etc.

In talking to others who have been tested, I've found that it's not that uncommon for people to find out about half siblings, aunt's or uncles, etc., that they had no idea existed.

So while you may be secure in thinking that you know all there is to know about your family history, you might actually be surprised to find that there may be some previously unidentified twigs on your family tree, that would never come to light without genetic testing.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

35. Have you seen this fascinating story in The Washington Post?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/lifestyle/she-thought-she-was-irish-until-a-dna-test-opened-a-100-year-old-mystery/?utm_term=.11a0eab8781e

WHO WAS SHE? A DNA TEST ONLY OPENED NEW MYSTERIES.
How Alice Collins Plebuch's foray into “recreational genomics” upended a family tree.


Five years ago, Alice Collins Plebuch made a decision that would alter her future — or really, her past.

She sent away for a “just-for-fun DNA test.” When the tube arrived, she spit and spit until she filled it up to the line, and then sent it off in the mail. She wanted to know what she was made of.

Plebuch, now 69, already had a rough idea of what she would find. Her parents, both deceased, were Irish American Catholics who raised her and her six siblings with church Sundays and ethnic pride. But Plebuch, who had a long-standing interest in science and DNA, wanted to know more about her dad’s side of the family. The son of Irish immigrants, Jim Collins had been raised in an orphanage from a young age, and his extended family tree was murky.


After a few weeks during which her saliva was analyzed, she got an email in the summer of 2012 with a link to her results. The report was confounding.

About half of Plebuch’s DNA results presented the mixed British Isles bloodline she expected. The other half picked up an unexpected combination of European Jewish, Middle Eastern and Eastern European. Surely someone in the lab had messed up. It was the early days of direct-to-consumer DNA testing, and Ancestry.com’s test was new. She wrote the company a nasty letter informing them they’d made a mistake.

[MineralMan]

41. That's truly amazing. What a great story about solving

a big family mystery! Thanks for posting that link.

[Crepuscular]

45. Thanks

I had not seen that article before, thanks for sharing. Stories of this type will become more frequent, as more and more people become tested and the databases become more comprehensive. It's been an interesting experience for me, not completely positive but one that I would not hesitate to do again.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

108. My good friend recently discovered her sister is really her half sister.

I think they always suspected something. Their father was always estranged. But to have it confirmed was a bit shocking.

Last I heard they were considering asking mom about it. Not sure if they did.

That said, technology is bringing us all together in one way or another. My neighbor has known for years his dad was a "Rolling stone" -- dad was a world famous dance instructor. I guess he was doing more than the bossanova. Last year I was over at the house while my neighbor was checking Facebook-- he said "got another one" . Meaning a message from another unknown half brother. He showed me the photo and it was his brother for sure. The scary thing was the new brother's girlfriend was the spitting image of my neighbor's girlfriend -- same height/build, hair color/style, Latina, and very athletic. Even the same taste in clothes.

[Exotica]

95. Wow! What a story. Thanks so much for posting.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

20. I did it out of curiosity; no real surprises.

It turns out I'm just as boringly white-bread European as our family records suggested. But it's interesting anyhow because you also get information about how various groups moved about - which tends to explain, for example, why a smidgen of Italian showed up where I knew one branch of the family was Swiss. Or why I turned out to be a lot more Norwegian than expected, considering all the Scots on my dad's side (Vikings again). It didn't change anything for me, I yam who I yam - but that doesn't mean it was a worthless exercise. If you don't care, fine; but others might - maybe because they are just curious, like me, or maybe because they want to track down their origins or even missing or unknown relatives. I realize that the tests are not going to be 100% accurate because the testing companies arrive at their results by comparing samples to other samples in their databases. The more samples they have, the more accurate the results will be. In any event I think it's a useful way of learning about human genetics and migration over the centuries, if nothing else. Don't blow it off just because it has no value to you. Obviously many other people feel otherwise.

[MineralMan]

24. I don't care what others decide to do, really.

It's their money, so it's their choice. Some people are insisting that E. Warren have this testing done, though. That is the reason for my post. There are risks involved with requiring people to have such tests. That's a path I don't want to see us follow.

As for those Vikings, "rape and pillage" does mean something. Scottish and Irish genetics started getting complicated, starting back in about 1000 C.E. it seems. And then, there were the Romans to consider. And then, London was a trade center, too. Stuff gets messy.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

29. Of course I would never want anyone to be required to get a DNA test.

That way dangerous things lie. I am aware that there are questions about using these tests in employment and insurance situations, which would be a bad thing. I'm not worried for myself because I'm old and retired, but the concern is legitimate.

As to Elizabeth Warren, she is absolutely within her rights to tell anyone who demands she get tested to go pound sand. And if she did do it, her DNA might show no Native American ancestry even if other relatives' did, because of the way particular bits of genetic information are inherited. Your mother might be 1/4 German, for example, which should mean you'd be 1/8 German, but your DNA might show no German ancestry at all - that's because while we get 50% of our DNA from each of our parents, they don’t give each child the same 50% (except for identical twins). And anyhow, she'd just be giving legitimacy to her critics.

[hexola]

23. Consider this argument

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210344594

[BannonsLiver]

25. I learned quite a bit from mine

But only because it matched me with a cousin who I contacted and later met in person. She is quite a bit older than me, in her 80s, but a whiz at genealogy. She filled in a lot of information for me about our family background. I learned I had ancestors who emigrated from Scotland, and specifically where they came from. I'll be visiting that spot later this summer. Also that I have ancestors who fought in the Revolutionary and Civil Wars, and that I'm related to Hoagy Carmichael.

But I've always been curious about that stuff. Others have no curiosity. It was a fun experience for me. Individual results may vary.

[snowybirdie]

27. A friend did this

And found she had a half sister searching for relatives. Turns out her dad had a one night stand 60 years ago and fathered a child. Her mom is now furious with her husband of 65 years. Not always a good thing.

[MineralMan]

28. Yes. The newer tests can reveal things other than simple regional heritage.

There are pluses and minuses to that, to be sure. I imagine there will be more somewhat upsetting stories like the one you told.

[Clarity2]

30. I would actually love to do DNA testing

My bio father was adopted and he passed when I was a toddler, so there's an entire side I don't know anything about. I've tried getting records unsealed and searching for decades, but there's not much legally a child of an adopted person can do.

The only reason I've held back is because I do not want a genetic bomb dropped on me, like knowing if I'm predestined to get a certain illness.

I'm fascinated by genealogy, and would welcome any results of who I am. Some people have a strong need to find the roots that tie them. For me, it's a pull to know this whole half of my family that is missing. It's a way to capture a bond that was never there.

One prerequisite: Just don't tell me I have Russian blood.

[BannonsLiver]

31. Ancestry doesn't test for health

23andMe does, though it is a separate test at a higher fee. If you're curious it's interesting. If you're not curious about anything, it's not. Also, if you suffer from black helicopter paranoia it's probably a bad idea as well.

[Clarity2]

103. Thanks

But Black helicopter paranoia?

[WePurrsevere]

94. This is an area of DNA testing that actually can be helpful. I'm an older adoptee...

who's now in contact with family members from both sides because of DNA, sleuthing and 'luck'. Sadly my bio parents are both deceased but everyone has been very kind and welcoming so far. Mind you I wasn't the product of an affair but rather young love and hot summer nights and I'm almost positive my bio father didn't know about me.

If you're interested in health (and from what you said I'm not sure you should do this) ... I took the 23andMe health and wasn't impressed but my background is in the medical field. What I suggest to save a bit of money is, test on Ancestry (largest database) and the upload your raw data to either Codegen.eu (free) or Prometheus ($10).

If you're looking for your father's side there are places you can expand your search at for free. If you're on FB there's group run by the DNA Detectives that I've found incredibly helpful called, DD Social. There are quite a few more but that's my favorite.

[Clarity2]

104. Thank you

Glad that you were able to find family What a happy ending doing just a dna test. At this point, I’m not sure I have the energy for a big family reunion (started looking in early 20s), but I’d at least like to know where part of me came from. My bio grandparents and his siblings are probably gone by now.

Im saving this info and will definitely look into Ancestry. I was active on their website at one point.
I recall when I had looked into dna testing that there being some advantages to male vs female testing. Will have to look into that again.

Thanks for the info!

[WePurrsevere]

111. FWIW, Ancestry does what's called autosomal testing so gender isn't an issue.

Family Tree DNA does autosomal and gender based. They have a decent explanation about them on their site.

[Clarity2]

121. Great - thank you! nt

[pnwmom]

32. My mother completely lost touch with cousins she loved who moved when she was young.

They moved a thousand miles away, and that was that. Back in those days, people didn't talk much long-distance, much less on Facebook.

Through DNA testing, she found them again. Unfortunately only one is still alive. Too bad she hadn't done the testing sooner.

[MineralMan]

34. I have some cousins on my father's side who I haven't seen for over 50 years.

I have no idea where they are. I know their first names, but, since they got married, I don't know their last names. Am I concerned about that? Not a bit. I've met them once, as a child. On the other hand, my wife knows many of her cousins, and a number of them live nearby. So we see them from time to time, and there's an annual cousin's gathering that rotates between their homes. We've hosted it twice, and it's fun.

Some families stay in touch. Others don't. I have nothing in common with my cousins, really. We just don't keep in touch.

[pnwmom]

40. Well, you don't. That doesn't mean other people wouldn't be glad to find some long-lost relatives.

My mother's cousins were very close to her at one time and she would have loved to have found them earlier, while they were all alive and in good enough health to travel.

You wanted to know "why anyone would bother." Well, there are good reasons that other people would. Just because the circumstances don't apply to you doesn't mean they're wrong.

[MineralMan]

43. And yet, I can still wonder why anyone would bother.

It's funny. Some people appear to think I'm telling people that they shouldn't do this. I'm not. I'm just saying that I don't see any reason why to do it. Upthread, someone posted a link to a story of a long search by one woman, who discovered that a relative of hers was part of a mistake in a hospital where two infants were sent home with the wrong mothers.

Now, while that story was very interesting to read, I was still left with the question of why it mattered, really. For me, it wouldn't have mattered at all. I am here. I am whoever I am. What led to that is simply not that interesting to me, beyond a couple of generations.

Like most people, I know who my grandparents were, and that's plenty enough, as far as I'm concerned.

For others, that might not be. They're welcome to search back into their ancestry. I never implied otherwise. As always, what I write is my opinion, and always with the knowledge that my opinion is likely not the same as anyone else's.

[pnwmom]

47. Yes, you certainly can. But your OP asked why ANYONE would bother.

And when people explain why THEY did it, you still keep pointing to your own lack of interest.

Even when told the story about two babies swapped at birth, you were "still left with the question of why it mattered."

It seems that you never really cared about why other people may be interested after all.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

49. Babies being swapped at birth would probably be a very big deal to anyone.

Even you. You claim it wouldn't have mattered to you at all, but if you discovered though DNA testing that your parents weren't your biological parents and that you had siblings and other relatives you never knew about, I don't think you'd have just said, "Meh, whatever," and claimed total disinterest in it all. Maybe it wouldn't have changed you, and no doubt you'd have continued to feel the same way about the parents you knew - but wouldn't you have felt even a tiny flicker of interest? You say you see no reason to get a DNA test yourself - that's fine, and your choice - but you go on to say that you can't understand why anybody would want to do it. Can you not at least imagine a circumstance where it might matter to someone who is not you?

[MineralMan]

51. Really, no. It wouldn't change who raised me.

Biology is just part of parenting, really. Bottom line is that I wouldn't do that DNA ancestry testing at all. On the other hand, it's available for anyone who wants to do it and can afford to do it. So, people should do as they think best.

I can tell you what I think about it, though. It doesn't interest me in any way. Life's complicated enough, I think, without adding any additional complexity to it.

[Crepuscular]

73. Well,

Well, sometimes those additional complexities in life can be a good thing.

Imagine if, as the result of a DNA test, you found that you had a half sibling that you had been unaware of; You would have no curiosity about them? No interest in meeting them or comparing yourself to them in regards to the nature vs. nurture question?

Until faced with that sort of situation, it's hard to second guess how you might feel but you might be surprised at how something like that may change your worldview or sense of self. Or maybe not.

[MineralMan]

82. I'm 72 years old, and my life has been a very complex one.

Would I be interested in meeting a previously unknown half sibling? Well, I know for a fact that no such half-sibling exists. But, if I learned of such a thing, I might make contact, but probably that's it. We are so much more than our genetics, and the longer we live the more influence environment has on who we are. So, at my age, I'd probably be only somewhat interested in forming any relationship with such a half-sibling.

My sister did one of those DNA test things. Nothing particularly interesting showed up. So, I have even less interest than before.

Same for my wife. Her sister did it, too. There are no unknown relatives, so hers would look pretty much the same. Again, there were no surprises in it. It reflected what was already known about her family tree.

New information about such matters can sometimes be useful. It can also be disrupting. You take your chances, I suppose, in doing such research. As I said, I'm not much interested, really. At my age, environment has affected my life more than genetics did. Unlike my siblings, I took a different path through life. They stayed in the old home town, while I left permanently at age 18, going back only for a couple of visits each year. Because of that, my experiences are very different. We're all still close, my immediate family of parents and siblings. My parents, at 93, are at a tenuous stage of their lives. Before much more time has passed, they'll be gone.

My younger brother died last year, at only 67 years of age. I was there for his funeral. My sister has Alzheimer's and is not the same person any longer. After my parents' deaths, and my duties as the executor are over, I probably won't ever return to my home town again until my sister is gone and I have to attend her funeral. The family farm, which loses money every year, will be sold and the proceeds divided according to my parents' wishes after their deaths. And that will be that, frankly. My sister will soon be unable to remember me. My nieces, nephews and their children will still get their annual Christmas greetings, but they live far from where I live, and we probably won't see each other often, if at all.

My wife and I will probably move away from Minnesota, but we don't know where. Her parents are gone, and we moved here to help care for them as they aged. Who knows where we'll go. Somewhere warmer I think. We have no children, so it will be the two of us, for as long as there are two of us. Our estate, such as it will be, will go to a charitable organization.

Life is plenty complex. Additional complexity is not something I'm seeking.

[ProfessorGAC]

78. My Sister Was Adopted

To the day my parents died (and since then) she has no interest in knowing who her birth parents were. She has said many times "I know who my parents are."
Your point seems to be a bit insulting to those adopted and having no interest in knowing some other irrelevant truth.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

81. Being swapped at birth isn't the same as being adopted.

It's quite true that many adoptees don't care to locate their birth parents, and that's perfectly understandable. But when babies get mixed up at the hospital there was never any intent for an adoption, and the babies ended up with parents who were not biologically theirs as the result of a mistake. While these people would most likely view the people who raised them as their "real" parents, I doubt that there are many who would not want to know anything about their biological families. It's just not the same as an adoption, where the bio and adopting parents knew what had happened.

[Crepuscular]

90. I can see

I can see this issue from both sides. I always knew I was adopted but had no real desire to investigate my biological heritage. I had great adoptive parents and a stable family life. I don't think either of my adoptive parents would have been upset had I searched out my biological parents but I never was really interested and I did not want to even take the chance of hurting my adoptive parents feelings. Even after they had both passed away, I didn't really have any great desire to investigate, until a medical issue provided a reason.

After having taken the DNA test, however and obtaining answers about my biological background and heritage, I must say I'm glad that I did it. In some subtle ways it's changed my self perception and has also allowed me to meet some biological relatives that I never knew existed, which has been kind of cool. Not all of it has been amazingly successful, not all of the biological relatives have had any interest in meeting me or getting to know me and there are some that I have not been able to contact, to preserve someones' "secret", which has been somewhat frustrating but all in all, it's been a kind of an amazing experience and in hindsight I'm extremely glad that I took the test and started the journey of investigating my origins.

[LexVegas]

33. Ok, dad. nt

[MineralMan]

36. I can assure you with 100% certainty that I am not your father.

I'm nobody's father. My choice.

[Tipperary]

37. I know, right?

I personally enjoy researching my genealogy. I think it possible some of us have more intellectual curiosity than others. Nothing wrong with that.

[LexVegas]

38. I think its fascinating and you can uncover some real surprising results. nt

[lunamagica]

42. ICAM. They are a waste of money. I've called it a hobby for the rich

I don't have money to throw away like that, and if I did, I'd rather donate it to a good cause than give it to those companies.

[MineralMan]

44. Well, if people want to spend their money that way, I don't care, either.

I just can't see the utility of it, myself.

[RobinA]

107. Do You Only Do Things

that have utility? No arts? No travel except for work? Never grow a garden? No just-for-fun hobbies?

[chowder66]

50. Think of genealogy and dna testing this way....it's a bit like astronomy.

There are a lot of people who like to star gaze or hunt for new planets and they invest in equipment to do this.

DNA testing is our telescope to search for the known and unknown.

[MineralMan]

52. So, then, they should do it.

The fact that I do not understand the impulse to do so does not mean that the technology should not exist for those who want it.

This was all stimulated by people insisting that Elizabeth Warren should get it done to prove or disprove her Native American ancestry. In my opinion, there's no reason that she should do that, unless she wants to, herself.

Clearly others disagree with that position, and are saying that she really has to do it to clarify the situation. That's nonsense.

[chowder66]

58. Here is what I said about Warren and DNA

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/100210122959#post38

I should have added that DNA doesn't always pass down anyway as some posters have already stated in the thread in reply to your OP.

I was responding to the "why bother" part of your posts.

[MineralMan]

60. I'm glad we agree about Elizabeth Warren.

As for "why bother?" that's my opinion. Not everyone shares that opinion.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

53. Some people are more curious than others, I think.

Finding out some details about my ancestry didn't change my life but it was interesting new information. I was curious, and that was enough. Information doesn't always have to be "useful." Sometimes we just like to know things. I learned some interesting new stuff about human migration and genetics. Astronomy is interesting, too, even though knowing which stars are which won't affect my life. It's just fun to learn new things.

[samnsara]

54. almost everyone i know has taken them and we gave them as xmas gifts..

..i feel there is no such thing as too much knowledge esp when it comes to ones possible health issues. I even did a DNA test on one of my dogs!

[MineralMan]

56. OK. I don't mind if you do.

As I explained, I have absolutely no interest in it. If someone gave one to me as a gift, they'd have wasted their money. I wouldn't use the test. And you'd probably be disappointed that I didn't.

It's not the sort of gift I'd give to anyone, frankly, since it sort of insists that someone do something they might not otherwise do. Sort of like someone giving me a CPAP machine because they use one.

[matt819]

63. I tend to agree

There's no question about me, my parents, and my grandparents - which takes us back to the 1880s. Direct line, no cheating, no questions. (Sure, anything's possible, but the odds are slim.)

Beyond central Europe in the 1880s, does it really matter. Would it change anything? To paraphrase (quote?) Popeye, I yam what I yam. Was there a stray Viking in our history? I doubt it. And if there were, would my kids name their future grandson Ragnar or Loki?

So, MM has a point, as does the poster who expressed concern over the ownership of one's DNA sample.

And, yet, I'm still a little curious.

BTW, I'm reading a novel, The One, which posits that there's a genetic marker for one's soulmate. Imagine the complications, and then pick up the book to find scenarios you probably didn't think of.

[MFM008]

64. We only met our

Maternal grandmother a couple of times.
The other grandparents died in the 60s.
I traced my dad's line back to Ireland in 1853.
As a gift I gave my son for Christmas,
23 and me with medical.
We learned many interesting things.
Not a total loss and better than another sweatshirt.

[KatyMan]

68. Why judge?

Some people have the disposable income enough to give it a try because they don't know their ancestry. Some people look for confirmation. So what? My wife and I did the ancestry one and it helped fill out her family tree immensely, like back 300 or so years. It's fun.
If you aren't interested, fine; why poo-poo it if others are?

[MineralMan]

71. Because some people were insisting that Elizabeth Warren

had some sort of responsibility to get her DNA tested. Did you see that in my title. That's why I wrote this post in the first place. My opinion would not change anyone else's mind, I'm sure, but it's my opinion. Why should I not state it?

I could afford to do it. But, I'd rather spend the money on a nice dinner out with my wife. Others might make a different choice. But that's my choice, as it is my opinion. Thanks for sharing yours.

[KatyMan]

80. OK, in Warren's case, or yours, that's fine

but people get a kick out of it, finding out they have some weird origin they weren't aware of, like a Balkan grandfather or Indonesian cousin. I see it as participation in our shared experience, and how we're all related (for example, I recently read an article [that I haven't vetted yet, amateur historian that I am], that said basically everyone of European origin is related to Charlemagne.).

Love your posts Mineral Man.

[Egnever]

69. I am with you

Maybe in the case of a medical issue but beyond that who cares? We are all mutts when it comes down to it. I happen to be a heavily European influenced mutt but as one who thinks it is the person not the DNA that forms my relationships this whole thing seems silly to me, again aside from a medical reason.

If you are into it be my guest but it holds absolutely no interest for me. I have a lot of clients that chase their family trees spending inordinate amounts of time on it. I have never understood that either.

To each their own though.

[arthritisR_US]

70. Its the same BS the birthers pulled on Obama

and their demand he present his birth certificate 😡

[MineralMan]

72. Exactly. This thread is about whether E. Warren should

feel compelled to do it. In the process, I shared my opinion about such testing. Few noticed the reference to Elizabeth Warren. That's interesting in itself, I think.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

79. I think if you had stated your OP in terms of whether EW was obligated to do it

rather than explain why you are not interested in doing it (insinuating as well that it's a useless waste of money for anybody, not just you), you'd have received results more pertinent to Sen. Warren. I agree 100% that Sen. Warren is under absolutely no obligation to get a DNA test to "prove" her NA ancestry, which is an issue only for Trump and his hooligans. Like everyone else, she can do it if she wants (and for all we know, maybe she has and has chosen not to disclose the results), but I don't think she should give the Trumpers the satisfaction of pressuring her into it, regardless of the results. This is an entirely separate point from whether DNA tests are interesting, useful, or worth the money in general. Suggesting that DNA testing is uninteresting and not useful for you, personally, effectively derailed the conversation about EW, because many others do find them both interesting and useful.

[Mariana]

99. You're right. And the result would be exactly the same.

If she tests and it does show she has NA ancestry and she releases the results, they will simply declare it is fake, just like they did with the President's birth certificates.

[arthritisR_US]

100. Excellent point and dead on!

[Freelancer]

83. If Elizabeth W. isn't actually NA by blood or kin, it isn't surprising.

It isn't surprising at all that she might have been led to think she was NA. Most people with little actual genealogical knowledge that come from Oklahoma just assume there's tribal connection there somewhere.

I was told I was part Cherokee, and totally bought into it. I was even on the freaking local powwow committee for years (wasn't asked to leave -- we just stopped having them). It turns out that, although all my cousins are NA, I'm not. Ironically, I look far more "native" than they do. Nobody told my dad that having a great aunt that's Cherokee doesn't make you Cherokee.

"But she was my aunt." "She was an aunt by marriage, Dad, forfuxake." "So?" <–That's what an Oklahoman genealogical conversation with parents is like.

In regard to DNA, it could determine Warren's parents, but not NA status. Also, a number of tribes, most I believe, adopted people going way back. So, DNA percentages and tribal descent fractions -- 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, etc. -- probably aren't going to line-up.

[pnwmom]

113. If you qualify to be on the Cherokee rolls because of your ancestors, then you're Cherokee.

It doesn't matter whether an Ancestry other test shows your have Native American genes. For one thing, the most common haplotype among Native American men is also a common haplotype in Western Europe. The test wouldn't be able to tell the difference, and the DNA company might have reported it to you as Western Europe.

Also, two siblings with the exact same set of ancestors can have varying amounts of genes -- just like we can have different eye and hair colors. My brother had 6% Scandinavian. I had zero. But we both have the same Scandinavian relative in our family tree. I just didn't get those particular genes in the roll of the dice. (Or enough of them to show up in testing.)

(I'm not saying you in particular are Cherokee, because an Cherokee aunt-by-marriage probably wouldn't get you on the rolls. But if you do qualify for the rolls based on your ancestry, then a DNA test wouldn't matter.)

[Maeve]

85. To each their own

Hubby got me a kit for Christmas a few years back so I could finally get some idea how much Irish is in my background. (roughly 10%) Since then, I've found out more family history based on the DNA matches and it's led to more geneological research and a whole realm of info that I can look into when I have the time. My dad's family has been on this side of the pond since 1750 and even tho my great-aunt did the family history, who can be entirely sure? And what about the other families in the mix? I got no real surprises, which was a disappointment, in some ways....

[Awsi Dooger]

86. Mine was a real bonus; so glad I did it

A distant cousin got in touch and shared family pictures and anecdotes going back several generations. i learned things about my great grandparents that I never would have otherwise known. I'm just sad that we didn't do this when my mom and dad were still alive. I found out too late about family reunions that were held in 2006 and thereabouts. That would have been a real treat.

The percentages are a mere fraction of what is included. Mine were as expected...mostly Irish with some Eastern European thrown in. Dad's side of the family was from Ireland while mom's was from Poland. Everything made sense.

Yes, it is always possible to default to fear and find any number of reasons to be scared of this process. I would expect that of old white Republicans.

[MountCleaners]

118. I found cousins too!

Am now corresponding regularly with someone in Ireland who is from my grandmother's neck of the woods. Here is this complete stranger telling me stuff about my own family.

I'm really glad I did it, because I'm really mixed and don't look like a generic "white" person. White people are always asking me, "what are you?" My DNA confirmed that about a fifth of my DNA isn't from Europe. It's a huge relief. I've felt different my whole life and people in my family have been called various racial and ethnic slurs. Anti-Arab, anti-Latino, you name it.

[lostnfound]

87. Not to mention data for sale could end up used against you

Picture a future where insurance companies can identify which family lines have a propensity for high cost diseases.

They don’t need to have your own DNA; if they have enough members in your extended family, they can use big data techniques and pattern matching.

Ancestry is selling them at cheaper and cheaper prices...perhaps because they view the gigantic database as highly sellable, down the road.

Do genes also predict politics and preferences? More than you’d think.


I was offered one as a possible gift, and turned it down.

[MineralMan]

91. Actually, the health insurance companies already have that data.

And based on actual health issues. They've been collecting it for a long time now. For me, for example, they have CBC blood test data collected annually for many years. They know every time I have been treated for anything. They're paying the bills for that stuff, and have all the data. Same for others in my family. They also know my parents health history for as long as they've had health insurance.

We've all had health insurance for decades now. Big data can make what it wants from all that. The genetic information is not really needed. There is real health history stored for just about everyone these days.

[pnwmom]

116. They would be breaking their contract if they do that and could be sued. Read the contract

if you're interested.

[TheSmarterDog]

88. Nobody cares except the racist motherfucker who are shouting for it.

[CentralMass]

89. I see no need to drop $80 or $100 to some company process my DNA.

I feel that it could be sold and used for nefarious purposes. Imagine them selling it to insurance companies or employers.. if ACA gets gutted an insurer might deny coverage if your test indicates that you have a predisposition foir cancer or diabetes, etc..

[pansypoo53219]

93. NPR had a DNA expert on a thing about these tests,

mom had italian, why didn't italy show up? DNA a crap shoot. never know what is gonna be there. i thought i would be way more german. my mom has 1% of jewish. i am totally surprised at the 1% asian. i do have the most german.

my uncle's wife's family assumed WAY more irish.

[Lord_at_War]

97. Reminds me of a Heinlein quote

"This sad little lizard told me that he was a brontosaurus on his mother's side. I did not laugh; people who boast of ancestry often have little else to sustain them. Humoring them costs nothing and adds to happiness in a world in which happiness is always in short supply."

Your mileage may vary...

[ecstatic]

98. I was curious, but the people who have the info don't answer questions

A few years ago, I tried to get more information from my maternal grandmother with no luck. Same thing with my oldest living aunt on my dad's side. For whatever reason, they are incapable (or don't want to) answer basic questions about their lineage.

I probably would have ordered a DNA kit if it were cheaper--thing is, I don't think I'd get enough answers by testing myself. My parents are from 2 different continents. I'd probably learn more from testing them. But after seeing a video about the sketchiness of how our DNA would be secured, I don't think I'm going to bother.

[Sophia4]

101. My sisters are big on DNA testing and finding long-lost relatives.

So I did it. And the results are amazing. I found out things about my ancestry that stunned me.

For instance, at one time in my life, I lived in a place in Europe in which one of my ancestors was orphaned when the French killed Hugenots.

I'm from a family of very devout, but very rebellious religious people -- activist Protestants -- on virtually all sides.

It explains a lot of who I am including my liberal politics.

It's fun. But most of us are mixed in terms of race, ethnicity, etc. Probably more than some would want to know about.

[RandySF]

102. My parents do not know much about my family beyond their home states.

[Blaukraut]

105. If you upload your raw data to a better site, it's worth it

We did our DNA tests via ancestry but uploaded the data to GEDcom and other sites for more comprehensive analysis. Even did one for medical data. (With medical data you have to do your own footwork because the sites are only allowed to list your genes and their relation to various genetic traits and/or illnesses. No interpretations).
I discovered dozens of distant cousins. (No surprise, with my Jewish ancestry) and hubby confirmed his ancestry for a certain project, so it was definitely worth it.

[RobinA]

106. Well,

I haven’t done a DNA test yet, but I do genealogy along with many people in my family, and I don’t understand NOT wanting to know where you came from. But many people, like you, don’t. To each his own.

[oasis]

112. Forget about DNA tests, because Saturday, we're all Irish.

☘☘☘☘☘☘☘☘☘

[Spider Jerusalem]

117. I did it as an aid to genealogy; I already knew what my ethnic ancestry was.

Last edited Tue Mar 13, 2018, 06:25 AM - Edit history (1)

DNA testing confirmed my paper trails going back at least five generations, and in some cases further. (And turned up a few surprises, like a previously-unknown first cousin of my mother's; apparently her uncle was a rather naughty boy.)

Edit: and I was able to get a report on gene variants; I discovered a few things (such as, that I'm a carrier of a gene variant associated with reduced effectiveness of SSRI antidepressants).

[aikoaiko]

120. That would be the uncurious and anti-science perspective.

YMMV