I know many dont like my election fraud allegations, and you are right I cant prove it.

[Eliot Rosewater]

I cant prove Kerry won Ohio, but I know he did.

My main reason for starting two threads about is not to argue about whether the GOP tries to steal every election they are in, because I believe they do and I wont bother arguing about it.

But to get people to ask what can we do about it?

What controsl are there on counting the votes?

Didnt the GOP change reporting the votes in a GOP county last night so that we cant see the breakdown by precinct? If I am wrong, tell me and I will drop it, if so WHY would they do that?

Anyway, I am asking what can WE do to stop them in November from cheating?


I dont mind criticism of my position on this. I DO mind if anyone doesnt vote for ANY democrat ANYWHERE.

[greymattermom]

1. So how often do changes like that happen

in very blue areas? If there are random mistakes, they should also happen when the democratic candidate is very strong. Counting should be counting.

[DFW]

7. Should be, but isn't always

[el_bryanto]

2. Well there are three type of election frauds

The National Level, the State Level, and the Local Level. The National level and state levels we can agitate for a more open process and a more fair process. That's hard to influence; particularly in the State. State governments often have enough of a lead politically that they can afford to ignore agitation, or even turn it to their advantage. And there are states where they don't need to cheat to win.

On the local level we might have more of an effect, volunteering to help with the election procedures on whatever level you are qualified for - and doing your best to make sure that all people have access to the voting booth.

The truth is that Republicans know that the more people vote, the more people vote Democrat - they don't have much incentive to make voting easier for anybody.

I'll also comment that there is a danger that, while focusing on preventing fraud, we suggest that voting is a waste of time because the Republicanoids are just going to steal the election anyway.

Bryant

[JustAnotherGen]

3. What can we do Eliot?

We can vote - vote Democratic.

When the numbers are overwhelming - they can't just drop a onesie twosie here we or there.

They have been 'close' calls in Alabama and PA. If just a few thousand Democratic voters had stayed home - we would have been stuck with two stupids.

[RandomAccess]

20. Start working-- HARD -- for paper ballots everywhere

starting in your state.

Paper ballots, hand-counted in full public view. Period.

This has the added advantage, and is probably more sellable, as THE best way to thwart Russian meddling. Even Trump proposed it the other day.

[TheDebbieDee]

4. I'm with you! I believe the Russians have

been meddling with our elections for years but I can't prove it. The Russians have been electing republicans to senate and congressional seats as well as state offices since 2000 or 2002 while funding their campaigns thru the NRA and other conservative PACs...

The republican party has been bought and paid for by the Russians for many election cycles now.

I think it's LUDICROUS for anyone to believe that the Russians access electronic voting systems in several states, meddled with voter rolls but DIDN'T mess with vote totals? Bull$hit!

[diva77]

5. Elections officials and county boards of supervisors need to be held accountable for certifying

and funding computerized voting machines, central tabulators, optiscans, etc. This equipment does not meet the burden of proof that votes will be counted as cast. You cannot stand next to a machine and know what is really going on inside of it -- much like the VW smog certification scandal.

Elections need to be transparent. The most effective way is to have paper ballots hand counted at precinct level with public oversight. There should be no consolidation of precincts either (a trend since at least 2000). Precincts should range from 500-2000 people approximately. If citizens were required via jury duty system to show up to count for 2 hours, they would only need to show up once every 2 or 3 years.

Attending hearings for voting equipment certification and funding, exposing lobbyists, holding elections officials accountable, exposing what goes on with vendors, the huge budgets wasted on purchasing the equipment, FOIAs for schedules of elections officials -- how often are they meeting with vendors and lobbyists, showing up at election HQ to protest nontransparency, creating forums for elections officials to debate computer techies who have spoken out against the easily hackable equipment, boycotting corporate sponsors of NASS and other election official organizations.

Election integrity is a NONpartisan issue.

IMHO, the democratic messaging is not the problem. Election fraud is.

[DFW]

9. This is vital

In Ohio in 2004, which handed Bush his supposed re-election, the Ohio Secretary of State, Kenneth Blackwell, was also the Ohio chair of the Bush re-election committee. The head of Diebold, the maker of some of the electronic voting machines said he would "deliver Ohio for Bush." Either Diebold or ESS (I forget which) went to court to get their machines declared "private property" that could not be forensically examined after they reported the "results" without permission from the makers (which was not forthcoming).

However, ONE of the Ohio electronic voting machines WAS forensically examined after the 2004 election. It was in some precinct out in a rural area, and it got examined before it could get collected by the owner company. It showed that in its precinct of about 600 registered voters, that 3,000 of them had voted for Bush. Instead of immediately ordering the rest of the machines to be forensically examined, the result was declared a "glitch," and 2400 votes were deducted from Bush's supposed margin of victory, although exit polls clearly showed that Kerry had carried the State, and with it, the electoral votes necessary to win the presidency.

[BumRushDaShow]

14. Governor Tom Wolf (D) has already directed that replacement machines

in all PA counties must be verifiable with a paper trail -

Governor Wolf Statement on Directive that New Voting Machines have Paper Record
February 09, 2018

Harrisburg, PA – Governor Tom Wolf released the following statement today on a new directive from the Pennsylvania Department of State requiring new voting machines to have a voter-verifiable paper ballot or paper record of votes cast.

“Counties across Pennsylvania are preparing to replace their aging voting equipment in the next few years. Today’s action by the Department of State ensures those new modern machines will include a paper record. This directive is another important step to strengthen the accuracy of our voting system and the integrity of our elections. We will continue to advocate for the federal government to provide more resources to update voting machines.”

https://www.governor.pa.gov/governor-wolf-statement-directive-new-voting-machines-paper-record/

[Binkie The Clown]

6. Your claim is not without precedent.

Somebody, I don't recall who, claimed that Hillary got fraudulent votes from 3 million illegal aliens.

But, of course, anybody can make any accusation whether that accusation has any basis in fact or not.

Snark aside, yes we need to be vigilant, but we also need to avoid spreading doubt and fear about the very foundation of our democracy; the ballot box. Undermining trust in our basic institutions serves no useful purpose.

[LanternWaste]

8. On an individual level, discuss (rather than proselytize) it rationally

"But to get people to ask what can we do about it??"

On an individual level, discuss it rationally, presenting objective evidence, accurate examples and in possession of relevant knowledge.

This means reading the peer-reviewed source material (as onerous as that may sound, it's actually not), research the primary and secondary sources (as inconvenient as that may sound, it saves time in the long run); and most certainly, do not come to any conclusions prior to examine the available and relevant evidence (else you've flushed the very purpose of the Enlightenment down the toilet). All those questions you consistently pose... the "how do we.." and the "what can we..." and the "why do they..." would all be addressed there).

Otherwise, one comes across as a proselytizing televangelist in a glittery purple tux who spends his time yelling at the sky, and acting as though anyone who presents additional conclusions, asks for evidence or simply disagrees is an apostate, lacking in purity and common-sense.



Easy-peasy, George and Wheezy.

[FreepFryer]

19. +1 (n/t)

[FreepFryer]

10. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, which requires extraordinary effort.

It's easy to express your subjective opinion and concern about electoral fraud (I share it).

The hard part is putting in the effort necessary to substantiate those claims.

Looking forward to the product of such effort on your part.

[yodermon]

17. subpoena power would help. n/t

[FreepFryer]

18. Indeed. However, in lieu of subpoena power we can all exert a little more self-control. (n/t)

[Demsrule86]

11. I don't dislike your post...I just don't think it happened this time...it is only a nine month

gig...

[PoiBoy]

12. I agree with you...

... as far as what we can do..? I think November is too close to provide sufficient protections necessary to secure our elections completely, however there are some things I would advocate for exploring and eventually implementing...

1. Paper ballots
2. Increase Vote by mail
3. Non-partisian vote counters
4. Secure the entire electronic voting system using Blockchain technology..

https://hackernoon.com/blockchain-for-voting-and-elections-9888f3c8bf72

The biggest challenge IMO, is to stop the cheating and hacking in our election process... the solutions are out there, but the only way we get there is to get out and vote... for all levels of our government so we can begin to take control of the process and make it secure.... we certainly can't trust the republicons...

[Eliot Rosewater]

13. All of your ideas are great, they are patriotic and democratic. Therefore expect righty to hate it

The human race, environment etc would be in so much better shape if there were no rightwingers.

[PoiBoy]

15. +1,000,000...

[librechik]

16. in Minority, Repubs can't really win except by cheating. Their platform is revolting.

and loyals are dying in droves as sour old assholes. Wait a few years.