Where's the concern about "turning off" minority voters?

[EffieBlack]

We are awash in OPs and posts in which folk carry on about how counter-productive, foolhardy, short-sighted, etc. it is to risk offending Trump supporters by not making it a priority to reach out to them.

Yet not one of these advocates seems the least bit concerned that minority Democratic voters are deeply offended, insulted, disgusted at the spectacle of our supposed allies in a party that we have busted our asses to build and support not only chasing around after people who are complicit in turning our country over to avowed racists and their racist king-boy, but completely dismiss, ignore and even attack our entreaties that they stop doing kicking us in the face.

You know we can see and hear you, right?

Why is it that Trump supporters' feelings are sacrosanct, but ours just don't matter?

[HipChick]

1. minority Democratic voters are taken for granted...Black woman

major voting block...has been saving this country for some time..but their interests are not heard..

[TNNurse]

44. Alabama, Doug Jones

Did people miss what happened there??? Those women worked and succeeded.

[PaulX2]

60. Trashing Trumpscum Is Supporting Minorities

I refuse to be nice to treasonous lying pathetic scum.

Trumpscum can foad.

[Hortensis]

87. You bet those minority voters did in high numbers,

and I'm also grateful to those white voters who switched to vote Democratic. On their own. Without wooing and reassuring that it'll be okay, without pretending that we'll pay more attention to preserving the the Ozzie and Harriet fantasy some still want to believe is America.

Doug Jones did it by appealing to a bipartisan desire for a return to decency and good sense in government. Something that united them and can reunite a working majority.

As far as I'm concerned at least, anyone who responds to that message is extremely welcome to rejoin us to make it happen. The rest will do us a favor by going down with the dying white man's party. We don't EVER want those back.

[Anon-C]

2. I may eat alot of popcorn before we get any answers. ..

...

[BumRushDaShow]

3. This was literally just done in a thread

where the Doug Jones win purportedly had nothing to do with the huge turnout of POC women.

[LAS14]

66. Citation?

[Gothmog]

72. For this thread

[BumRushDaShow]

76. Here

This main thread and this sub-thread.

[ProfessorGAC]

4. Huh?

I don't care about Trump voters' feelings and I care about your's!
Not sure where you're going here.

[Cary]

20. Not sure how you can miss it

Incredulous, actually.

[ck4829]

5. A K&R from the kind of guy these people want to pamper

White guy who lives paycheck to paycheck in the middle of Ohio, they say reach out to people like me... Well, I say black lives matter, I say don't be afraid to be a liberal, I say Muslim-Americans are our fellow Americans, I say we need to fight back against the far right's war against the liberal and the 'other', I say fight for a real healthcare system in the US that puts patients ahead of profits, I say fight for GLBTQ Americans, and more.

OPs and posts in which folk carry on... still want to cater to me?

[Glamrock]

6. Short answer...

It's obvious to black and brown voters that voting Republican or not voting at all = cutting their own throats. For white people it's not obvious at all due to the GOP not outright attacking them.

Yes, it should be obvious. Yes, we should appreciate the minority votes more than we do. But, while it's easy to paint a broad brush of the trump voters, it's not accurate.

Yes, a lot of them are racist. Yes, they voted for a racist. But what is never discussed is how far these people are removed from from political reality. As a midwesterner, I can tell you, you'd be shocked at the political ignorance that exists in the Midwest. These peoples privilege allows them to know nothing about the issues, nothing about the candidates, and nothing about governance. Shit, I know a Jewish family that voted trump.

Thing is, most of these people I know, am friends with, related to, or work with would have voted for Mickey Mouse over Trump. But 20+ years of smears against Hillary worked. These people would have crawled over broken glass to vote against her. And to answer your question, the white voting block is the largest in the country. And now that Hillary isn't on the ballot, there's a chance to move these politically ignorant people.

For the record Effie, I'm not disagreeing with anything you stated. You're spot on. Just answering your question to the best of my abilities.

[LBM20]

11. Your mistake is calling ALL of them "politically ignorant." It's not that simple.

[Glamrock]

13. I said some of them are racists. I didn't say ALL of them are politically ignorant.

The rest, it is that simple. They know nothing but the bumper sticker slogans they hear. This is where the GOP continues to kick our ass......messaging!

[Cary]

21. I haven't found a single one whom I wouldn't call a casual racist

[Glamrock]

23. I have.

And some are seeing the error of their vote.

[Cary]

26. If they are self actualized enough to see their error...

Then they can own that error 100%. That includes the title "recovering casual racist." Denialism never cuts muster.

I'm sorry but racism is an insidious disease.

[Glamrock]

28. Not disagreeing with you.

Reread my post. I know trump voters who aren't racist, just ignorant. And when I say "just", I ain't cutting them slack, dig?

[sprinkleeninow]

62. I maintain that 'they' who have inclination/leading eventually will

"come to the end of themselves" and approach the light.

I had some in our family I had to put up with for the sake of my sweet Godmother/auntie.

Distance myself from others I know unless they 'start'.

My feeling is also to reach those who seem reachable/teachable. I will not exhaust my energies on hard heads with closed 'minds'.

It must all come together b4 November. I am so glad Dems are taking the bull by the horns now and speaking out in no-uncertain terms.

Bring it!

~sprink
🇺🇸🌊

[Glamrock]

63. You put it in terms I couldn't.

Thanks sprinkle!

[sprinkleeninow]

74. No, you did good! 🤗

[Gothmog]

73. Rep. Terri Sewell: Black womens vote is the real story of Joness victory

[Glamrock]

78. True that.

No denial here. And huge props to my black sisters for delivering!

But that wasn't the case in PA18.And I'm not trying to say that that those black sisters in that district didn't contribute! Not at all what I'm saying. But in a district that went 20 points for Trump to vote Dem? There's some headway we can make in almost all white districts.

[BumRushDaShow]

93. Here is your breakdown of what happened in PA-18

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/13/us/elections/results-pennsylvania-house-special-election.html

Note that the "blue" is primarily coming from the southern suburbs of Pittsburgh in Allegheny County (but not counting Pittsburgh, which already has a (D) Congressman) and parts of northern Washington County - both where Lamb got most of his votes - enough that Saccone could not overcome it. I.e., the more "diverse" and union-packed Pittsburgh suburbs helped to take him over the hump. I.e., he "lost" 3 of the 4 counties that are part of that district, but "won" a critical portion of the largest (population-wise) of the 4 counties, which was Allegheny.

[Glamrock]

94. Thanks for that....

I'll have to look into it, but I may stand corrected on PA18.

[BumRushDaShow]

95. From my post here

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=10375482

See this part -

And as a resident of PA myself - note that what happened in PA-18, which will be upended due to redistricting, happened in an area that actually has a MAJORITY Democratic registration (XLS file) advantage. The problem is those "fickle" people and reduced turnout from places like Pittsburgh (and just outside) to bring the margins up. I.e., Lamb won because he got a significant uptick from the largest county in the district - Allegheny County (the county which includes Pittsburgh but where the district itself does not but includes the southern suburbs of it), and that level of voting was such that Saccone couldn't overcome it.

If you look at the vote totals from the 4 counties that make up that district, you will see he "lost" in 3 of them and "won" in the 4th (Allegheny).

Allegheny County
Greene County
Washington County
Westmoreland County

If you look at the demographics, Allegheny County (in total) is 19% POC, Greene County is 5% POC, Washington County is 6% POC, and Westmoreland County is 5% POC.

The district itself is about 5-6% POC where PA overall is about 23% POC (12% of that black). However the district also has a strong union presence and Lamb targeted that group of "fickle" Democrats to vote for him (particularly since Saccone was one of those "Right to Work" loons).

[Glamrock]

96. Okay.

I'll have to look up what the vote was in16 in Allegheny.
Thanks bumrush! Knowledge is power my friend!

[blue neen]

121. The Allegheny County portion of PA-18 is not the diverse area of Allegheny County.

Please look up the demographics of Mt. Lebanon, Upper St. Clair, Bethel Park, Robinson Twp.

[BumRushDaShow]

122. Did you look at what I posted in #95?

The district is 5 - 6% POC and I noted the total % POC of Allegheny County but indicated that Pittsburgh proper was not part of PA-18.

[blue neen]

123. I was replying to your post #93, which says this:

"Note that the "blue" is primarily coming from the southern suburbs of Pittsburgh in Allegheny County (but not counting Pittsburgh, which already has a (D) Congressman) and parts of northern Washington County - both where Lamb got most of his votes - enough that Saccone could not overcome it. I.e., the more "diverse" and union-packed Pittsburgh suburbs helped to take him over the hump. I.e., he "lost" 3 of the 4 counties that are part of that district, but "won" a critical portion of the largest (population-wise) of the 4 counties, which was Allegheny."

Thanks. Very happy that Conor Lamb won.

[BumRushDaShow]

133. When you include some of the other boros in the metro area

e.g., the Fayettes, Carnegie, Bridgeville, etc., they are more "diverse" (which is in quotes) than much of the rest of the (mostly rural) areas in the other counties of that district. The point being that the county itself is far more populous (as a whole) than the other 3 counties and the portion of it within the district contributed to the largest number of votes that Lamb received.

As a Philadelphian, I have been over there multiple times over the years and always told my buddies there how pretty it was. They always paused and remarked - "Yeah I guess you're right".

One of my bosses used to talk about growing up outside of "the 'burgh" and the perils of hanging laundry out to dry. Of course now those days are long gone as is much of the industry there. Here in Philly, we lost much of our own manufacturing base even before Pittsburgh did and what was left were the refineries, which have been fading away as well.

[PA Democrat]

137. I've lived in the district for more than 50 years and have watched as the entire region has

shifted right. Bill Clinton won all four counties (Allegheny, Westmoreland, Washington and Greene) in both 1992 and 1996. Gore won 3 out of 4 (he narrowly lost Westmoreland). Kerry won 2 out of 4 (he lost Westmoreland and Greene). We have won only Allegheny County in last THREE presidential elections.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_Pennsylvania,_1992
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_Pennsylvania,_1996
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_Pennsylvania,_2000
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_Pennsylvania,_2004
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_Pennsylvania,_2008
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_Pennsylvania,_2012
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_Pennsylvania,_2016

Declining union membership and the loss of union jobs in manufacturing and the energy sector are most likely big factors. Interestingly, the Republicans have been going after these voters by trying to convince them that Democrats are taking their jobs with their support for environmental regulations and trade deals.

Republicans have also pandered to the churches specifically the Catholic Church to encourage their congregations to vote "pro-life" with "voters guides" distributed in the churches that listed only three issues: abortion, school prayer, and school choice.

And then there is the dramatic shift right in local media. Richard Mellon Scaife bought all the small independent newspapers in the area and controlled the message and "news" that was printed with a marked rightward slant. It has been a joke for years that his major publication never printed letters to the editor unless they expressed a rightwing viewpoint. Likewise, KDKA radio talk show hosts had viewpoints that were overwhelmingly rightwing.

That is the battle that has faced Democratic candidates in this region and we ignore it at our own peril.

[BumRushDaShow]

138. Yes

and it has also been redrawn each census since 2000 to benefit conservatives. If I'm not mistaken, one iteration of PA-18 had Mike Doyle (D) as the rep back before the muckety mucking (where he is PA-14 now).

And regarding RW radio - I hate to say it's no different here in deep blue Philly. The RW took over all the talk stations (WPHT, formerly WCAU, WNTP, WWDB FM before they switched to music, & the now-Christian format WFIL, that had been Top 40 for decades in the '60s & '70s) save for one black talk radio station, and this pretty much happened during and since the '80s under Raygun. So they have basically made me pay for SiriusXM for the past 11 or so years to hear some progressive talk.

Philly still has a very dedicated, vibrant, and activist group of unions and I really think they should maybe step up to help those across the state. They are all under assault given more and more private entities attempting to push through no-union contractors for a myriad of things. However I also think there continues to be issues with some of the locals, where some significant corruption has occurred and has been prosecuted recently (at least here), so some serious soul-searching is in order.

[PA Democrat]

136. You are correct blue neen. The Allegheny County portion of PA-18 voted for Trump 50% Clinton 46%

It was gerrymandered into PA-18 because that portion of Allegheny County leans Republican. Additionally, Daily Kos did an analysis of the demographics of the Allegheny County portion of PA-18 and confirms what you said

If you just looked at this district on the map and thought “well, it’s the blue-collar counties that surround Pittsburgh, so it’s all a bunch of white union guys who were Obama/Trump voters,” you’re missing a big part of the district. For one thing, it wasn’t even a big Obama/Trump district in the first place; Obama got 41 percent here to Romney’s 58 percent, so it wasn’t even a big falloff from 2012 to 2016, districtwide, compared with Appalachia or rural parts of the Upper Midwest.

But the demographic difference that I’m pointing to is that Allegheny County’s portion of PA-18 is, for the most part, affluent suburbs. In this portion of the district, Clinton actually got a higher percentage than Obama did in 2012 (Obama got 45 percent in the Allegheny County portion of the 18th in 2012), consistent with the movement toward Clinton that we saw in a number of well-to-do suburbs around the country, and that helped Clinton run even with DePasquale.

For instance, compare educational attainment in the different county portions. Allegheny County’s PA-18 portion is 45.3 percent college-educated or better among people 25 or older, much higher than the national average. Washington and Westmoreland clock in at 30 and 28 percent, much closer to the national average, and Greene is down at 17 percent. You can see the same thing if you look at median household income: Allegheny’s PA-18 portion is about $69,000, well above the national average. The other counties range between $54,000 and $62,000, closer to the national average of $57,000. (One way in which Allegheny and the collar counties are demographically similar, though, is how white they are; the non-Hispanic white population share is over 90 percent throughout the district.)

The other, more blue-collar counties in the district are what you’d call stereotypically “historically Democratic”—as seen in, say, the 1980s, when candidates like Walter Mondale and Michael Dukakis won here even while getting blown out nationally. But you can still see the remnants here on Tuesday; despite being red at the presidential level, they still have significant Democratic voter registration advantages, and you have a lot of ticket-splitting in favor of local Democratic candidates even when they’re unwilling to vote Democratic at the top of the ticket, mostly for cultural reasons. These are counties where they’d vote happily for, say, DePasquale while voting against Clinton … and Lamb’s best hope of winning the 18th is that the residents of these counties see him the way they saw DePasquale, instead of the way they saw Clinton.

https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2018/3/12/1748470/-The-Daily-Kos-Elections-county-by-county-guide-to-watching-the-PA-18-election

[LAS14]

69. Good answer. Not so short, but good. Thanks for everything...

.... except your last paragraph... Seems at odds with the rest of the post.

[Glamrock]

70. Well

Unlike trump, I don't often have the best words. What I was trying to say in the last paragraph was a reiteration of the first sentence... And thanks for the kind words.

[OneGrassRoot]

7. White supremacy is very real, even on the "left" n/t

[WhiskeyGrinder]

8. K&R. The Democratic party is very, very good at doing just enough to keep minority voters on their

side and taking them for grated.

[mercuryblues]

9. Thank you

It is disgusting to say that we need to welcome the racists, misogynists, homophobes, etc. into the party for a candidate, much less a vote.

If we do that you can forget about gaining equal footing, as our rights and the rights of our loved ones will be legislated away. I always ask the people who make this claim, what rights are they willing to give up. Never an answer.

Look at trump. he has undone so much progress that minorities have gained under Obama and more. He appointed Devos, who is carving up civil rights guidelines in the Dept. of ed.and now is going after unions. trump, himself, has issued so many ex orders that have slashed decency to make minorities lives that much more difficult for no reason other than spite.

But yeah. lets advance this within the Democratic party.

Usually the ones who say this come off as protecting their elevated status. They want to maintain their privilege. They might not recognize that, but that is what they are saying to those they are willing to throw under the bus for a win.

When they show you who they are, believe them.

[LBM20]

10. Who said your feelings don't matter? My goodness, no one ever said that.

[Gothmog]

75. Even RT knows the truth

[Squinch]

99. You can appeal to racists or you can appeal to people of color. You can't do both.

All these "adopt a trumper" threads, whether they know it or not, advocate working to try and make racists like us. It's a really bad idea.

If some trumpers happen to come over as a result of the truthful message about how trump and the republicans are screwing them, then that's great. Though I'll believe it when I see it. And it should in no way be any kind of a priority for the Democratic party to gear our message to appeal to them.

[femmedem]

12. Your OP is probably written in part to me.

I live in an urban neighborhood that is about 50% POC, and I canvas my neighborhood heavily to GOTV every election cycle. I am always relieved when a black person--especially a black woman--opens the door, because I know the odds are overwhelming that the conversation is going to go well.

Fortunately for me, my city's Democrats outnumber registered Republicans by about 7:1. I just about never have to interact with a Trumper.

I completely agree that turnout among the traditional Democratic base is the key to winning elections--and the foundation of that base is black.

But it isn't binary. Who you try to persuade is going to largely depend on where you live. If someone lives in a white area that is heavily Trump, they aren't going to bump into many POC when they're out canvassing or making calls. Sometimes you need to learn how to talk to the people who surround you, even if you don't like them and find many of their values grotesque.

Of course, a high percentage of Trumpers are lost causes. Not only is it futile to engage them, it's counterproductive. They dig in their heels. But if I were in an overwhelmingly white district, I'd be trying to identify which ones are persuadable.

We need everyone doing what they can, where they are. And what I objected to was someone's efforts being belittled and attacked because they weren't the efforts you think are most effective. That does not mean that I disagree with your overall premise that increasing turnout with the Dem base is the best overall strategy.

[FakeNoose]

56. You sound like you could be my neighbor!

I'm not kidding, I live in Pittsburgh and it's exactly how you describe your area. I don't know where you live, but I identify with what you're saying.

I have a lot of respect for people who knock on doors to get out the vote. Not sure if I could do that even though I do like my neighborhood. It's hard enough talking to my friends who are older, many are already retired, white, and not necessarily liberal. Several are finding it hard to admit that they made a mistake voting for Trump in 2016, but they're no longer defending him or the GOP.

Yes maybe we do take the POC for granted, but they all seem to understand it's in their best interest to stick with the Democratic Party no matter what. The older whites (like the ones I know) seem to switch loyalties when it suits them. For example: I don't want to vote for a woman, I don't want to vote for a black man. I chalk that up to Fox News more than anything else.

[LAS14]

79. Thanks! nt

[Lonestarblue]

14. Trump supporters can take a flying leap off a tall bridge!

I don’t care what they believe or what they think. If they support Trump, they do not have the same values as Democrats and will never vote for ne. We should not waste one ounce of energy reaching out to them. We need to spend our time communicating what Democrats support, such as women’s healthcare choices, affordable healthcare for all, equal civil rights for all people, reform of the criminal justice system, a fair tax system that does not give huge benefits to the wealthy, fair and livable wages, education investments that help all kids succeed—not just those born wealthy, and an infrastructure plan that will repair/replace aging infrastructure while also creating good jobs. Trump supporters care only about punishing minorities, hating Muslins, hating immigrants, protecting their white supremacy culture, and worshipping their guns and the NRA for the time when they need to overturn the Constitution and install Trump or a person like him as president for life. No, I don’t care about the Trump supporters, but I do care about all the other people, of all ethnicities, who are fighting to take this country back from the right-wing extremists who want to destoy it.

[melman]

15. "Trump supporters' feelings are sacrosanct'

Yeah because people actually said that.

[whathehell]

82. Hyperbole

can run wild on DU...When it does, I don't even attempt a rational discussion anymore, as it seems futile

[gopiscrap]

16. exactly fuck anyone who has voted for trump

may they wither up and die....we have a big enough coalition with people of color, lgbt, youth and progressives to win IF WE GOTV!! fuck luke warm or weak souls who traitor with the other party

[lark]

17. Totally agree, so sick of that "woo the trumpers" meme.

Not interested in trying to woo KKK, Nazi, money-launderers, & other general haters and racists. Dems didn't lose because of the depth of drumpfs' message, we lost due to Russia spending billions in advertising on social media masquerading as American feelings as well as actually hacking the vote in 6 states. Take away MI, WI, PA and FL and drumpf loses. 2 of those 6 states were won with exactly 1.7% of the vote - how unlikely is that? FL and P had massive presidential undervotes in heavily Dem counties, but only in those targeted counties. Russian repugs definitely stole those states and so the election. Stopping them is the very most important thing we can do and so far nothing at all is being done on that front at the federal level. In fact, the russian repugs are trying to steal even more votes by removing tons of voters from the roles, by allowing russia carte blanche to steal the mid-terms for them and every election after that until we are no longer a constitutional democracy with a person one vote rule for all.

[lancelyons]

18. Agreed.

I have never seen CNN or MSNBC interview a group of democratic voters to find out why they voted they way they did and what they feel today. Its always about what the trump voter feels and thinks.

I think the media keeps doing this to hope that one day they will get a different result but in the process it just glamorizes the trump voter.

Bottom line, this can be changed by voters.

When we take back the country we have to immediately look at putting in safe guards to prevent this from happening again. There has to be a rule that all presidents have to release tax returns. There has to be a rule that the President can not fire people investigating him or his family or his friends and use the government to attack his adversaries.

[Aristus]

19. To Hell with Trump supporters. I don't want or need them anywhere near

the party I support.

If they are going to continue to vote for the assholes who starve them, deny them affordable health care, and place the burden of taxation upon them, then I have no sympathy, now or ever. To Hell with them. Let them rot.

I want my party to be a rainbow, with everyone pulling together to rescue our nation from evildoers.

[NurseJackie]

22. You're not the only one who sees this.

You know we can see and hear you, right? Why is it that Trump supporters' feelings are sacrosanct, but ours just don't matter?

They're not as clever or as stealthy as they imagine themselves to be.

[Honeycombe8]

24. Can you provide links to those OPs and posts carrying on about risky to offend Trumpers?

I have not seen any. Can you provide some links, please?

[EffieBlack]

27. Just look on the board. There are several OPs and many more responses on this very topic

[Honeycombe8]

105. So, no links. I haven't seen any threads about that, is why I asked. Guess there aren't any.nt

[BumRushDaShow]

118. Here

Much of this was as a result of the PA-18 Conor Lamb election and what I captured from the past couple days worth of threads (which move quick on GD)...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210358495
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210371681
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210363419
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210374728
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210359678

I am not really much of a GDer but more a LBNer. But I'll often see some heated discussions show up on the main page where I normally sit.

[betsuni]

125. Newest one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/100210377753

[Cary]

25. We don't need to compromise on race

I'll go further: we must never compromise on race. I never will. If I end up in a Gulag or the victim of a military grade nerve agent then so be it. I have lost friends because I will not tolerate casual racism.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

29. Wrong.

Nobody on DU is saying that Trump supporters' feelings are sacrosanct. Except maybe auto-removed trolls.

[Cryptoad]

30. Russian-GOP number one objective:

stir any Shit Pot that will increase the division of Democrats.

[KPN]

43. This.

Keep in mind it's a two-way street. But how does one argue for change in party policy positions, priorities, rules/process, leaders or point out weaknesses without being viewed as divisive?

[NCTraveler]

31. I just read a post...

Where they tried to connect Conor Lamb to a national agenda. It is a district that is around 95% white.

[MrScorpio]

32. If they voted for Trump who cares what they think?

That’s my attitude.

Anyone who supports Trump is a lost cause. They’re lost because they’d rather burn the country to ground than vote for Democrats.

The same goes for anyone on the far left who wants to give Trump a pass because they’d rather hate on Hillary. I guarantee that the majority of those assholes are white.

We do not have to pander to any of these people to win. If they refuse to join us, so be it.

We have a nation to save, we need to save it in spite of the fact that people will oppose us.

[Codeine]

34. Exactly. Fuck em.

There are more of us than them, and FAR more of us among the young men and women of tomorrow.

The momentum of history sure as FUCK isn’t on their side.

[Codeine]

33. These dumb motherfuckers need to realize

that nobody revolting enough to vote for Trumpolini will EVER pull the lever for a Democrat.

We don’t need to convince Trump voters to cross over. That’s a fool’s errand, doomed to failure before it even starts. A person whose thinking is that primitive and reptilian is unreachable. They’re a waste of time, effort, and oxygen.

We need to mobilize our base. New voters. Suppressed minority voters. Lapsed voters who have tuned out. Those are reachable people, and they’re the people who will take us back into control.

And the best thing is we can do that without denying our principles.

[MrScorpio]

35. Damn skippy!

[dalton99a]

36. +1

[Motownman78]

91. What about all those voter in PA18?

That voted for the Democratic candidate this time. White voters are still the largest voting block in this nation. For Democrats to win, we will need a good portion of those voters (Around 35-40%).

[Codeine]

101. I doubt any of those voters

were Trump voters. More likely they were people who had sat out elections, people who had simply not been engaged to vote prior to that point.

You guys imagine that some core group of decent humans voted for Trump in 2016; I think that is a completely silly theory.

[EffieBlack]

113. The same goes for the mythical Trump supporting Obama voters

While surely some people switched, folks are over-reading this - assuming that because Hillary got fewer votes than Obama and Trump got more votes than Romney, that means the Obama voters switched to Trump when, in reality it's more likely that the drop-off in Obama voters was primarily due to the voter suppression that increased exponentially after the Supreme Court struck the preclearance provision from the Voting Rights Act.

[uponit7771]

131. +1

[Motownman78]

115. To have a 20 + point swing for the Dem

there HAD to be some Trump voters.

[EffieBlack]

124. Where are you getting your "20+ swing" claim

Hillary got just 71,000 fewer votes than Obama got in 2012.

Trump got 2 million more vote than Romney did in 2012.

[Motownman78]

128. Sigh

Trump won PA 18 by over 20% in 2016, yet last Tuesday, the Democratic candidate won. What do you think I was talking about?

You know, this website is open for all the world to see. Republicans could point to the OP and posts like yours and others, using them against Democrats.

[EffieBlack]

134. I misunderstood your point

Thanks for clarifying it.

You're right - some former Trump voters likely voted for Lamb. But he did not actively campaign to Trump supporters. He stuck to his message and issues and, according to reports, was able to attract people who Trump voters who had already turned on Trump.

And as has been pointed out elsewhere on this board, the anchor for this victory was Allegheny County, which has a significant minority population that offset the Siccone vote in the district's white Republican strongholds.

[dlk]

37. Racism, Sexism -- Name your "Ism"

[2left4u]

38. I get it

I get what your pointing out.

A few points I feel that must be clarified.

Not all who voted for Trump are racists..a large percentage of them voted for Obama both times.
I don't believe anyone on this site is supporting or would support wooing racists.
We have to remember that the blue collar and rural white working class vote was always part of our voting block and people merely are trying to point out that they need to be brought back into the Dem camp again and calling them names and degrading anyone lowers the bar and conversation.

United as a party is far more important for us to win elections and our party is a party of inclusion.
Calling or thinking all Trump supporters are racist is an over simplification of a serious problem that racists use to swell their ranks.
The white blue collar rural vote is just as important as any other group and trying to categorize or marginalize a group is exactly opposite of what Progressives/Liberals stand for.

As a person of color I find the term "racist" and the accusation of "racism" to be far to rampant, mis-used and way to easy to say.

Using anyone's skin color to promote exclusion is racist, divisive and not part of anyone's platform on here I've found.

[EffieBlack]

47. Where to start

First - it's not true that "a large percentage of Trump voters voted for Obama both times."

Second - I'm all about party unity. That doesn't mean that I have to unite with people who hate me or ate perfectly comfortable uniting with people who do.

And, yes, the blue collar and rural white working class vote was always part of our voting block. Until they left because they objected to too many minorities and minority concerns being accepted into the Democratic party.

Since you're so comfortable with them but, like them, think "racism" is overused, maybe you'd be better off joining the Republican Party and convincing them to change THEIR fundamental nature and allow the Democratic Party to remain true to ours.

[2left4u]

77. LOL

Comfortable with them? Like them? I never said that...don't put words in my mouth, I didn't put words in yours.

Facts and truth suck when arguing so lets break it down.

Fact Hillary lost a percentage of voters that voted for Obama. That lost percentage helped elect Trump.

So let's break it down and get on the same page.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/09/06/new-poll-obama-trump-voters-are-starting-to-sour-on-trump/

Your point about White Dem/Independent voters and their sentiments for voting are broken down above.

Being the party of inclusion (which I know is important to you and since as people of color this is the party the supports us) these numbers are important and the why is too.

And yes racism is over used. My color is my color and my strength is in knowing who's a racist and who's ignorant...ignorant is changeable.

Proof is in the very party WE belong to that YOU want to exclude me from.

"America First" started with Woodrow Wilson (a Dem who also ran on that slogan), back in the day when the Dem party (or any party for that matter) wasn't much of a home for people with our skin tone.

Through education, activism, love and understanding look what the party has become today.

Hence why that group that voted the wrong is coming back.

Your point is buried in the above data in the midst of a lot of other points.
We are fighting the same fight, with the same goal.

"Don't be in a hurry to condemn because he doesn't do what you do or think as you think or as fast. There was a time when you didn't know what you know today."

[LAS14]

85. Kudos for this! Not only for your argument, but for the fact...

... that you are willing to spend time making a cogent argument that respects what the other person was saying enough to address it carefully.

[BumRushDaShow]

61. "Using anyone's skin color to promote exclusion is racist"

So then how do you reconcile your use of the oft-cited "racial" talking points -

We have to remember that the blue collar and rural white working class

The white blue collar rural vote is just as important as any other group and trying to categorize or marginalize a group is exactly opposite of what Progressives/Liberals stand for.

I.e., blacks seem to never be considered to be or associated as "working class" nor are blacks even considered to be living in "rural" areas, despite the fact that the majority of Americans (white or black) are essentially "working class" and there are upwards of 20% of the rural population that are POC. In fact, the population of "rural" dwellers is a mere 20% of the nation's total population, with the remaining 80% breaking down to about 53% "suburban" and 26% "urban".

Even moreso you have this phenomena about "rural America" -

<...>

Most live in the East, not the West or Midwest

Sixty percent of the rural population lives east of the Mississippi, and almost half lives in the South. The most rural states aren’t lonely and lightly populated Alaska or Wyoming but two New England states: Vermont and Maine.

The map below shows the concentration of rural residents in each state:



https://www.citylab.com/equity/2016/12/a-complex-portrait-of-rural-america/509828/

So given that demographic reality - 60% of the rural population is EAST of the Mississippi and 1/2 of those live in the south, why is the south ignored?

And with "rural" blacks, they are predominately located in the south -

[2left4u]

80. Yes

The subject was Trump supporters that were identified as racists.
Those supporters were broken down as rural blue collar white.
I musr have missed the memo on "oft sided talking points" I was on a different subject.



Now to your point, you show the numbers and areas of a vast group of voters we Dems support.

Further true issue you've pointed out in all those areas are lack of economic opportunity, healthcare, and education which are universal for all minorities.

Good post

[BumRushDaShow]

84. Actually

I think you missed what I was pointing out.

If the argument is that Democrats need to "reach out" regardless of "race", then the use of the terms "white working class" or "white rural", needs to END. "White working class" and "white rural" are code words.

There are "whites" who are "working class" and there are "blacks" who are "working class". I.e., the majority of Americans are "working class". Yet one subset of "working class" gets all the attention for picking up votes whereas the other doesn't.

And this -

Further true issue you've pointed out in all those areas are lack of economic opportunity, healthcare, and education which are universal for all minorities.

Not sure what you are saying here. I posted the demographics of "urban" vs "suburban" vs "rural". The majority of Americans identify as NOT living in "rural" areas or "urban" areas but in "suburbs". These "suburbs" tend to be more diverse than either "rural" or "urban" areas. But when it comes to "economics", BOTH "rural" and "urban" have similar economic challenges, regardless of race. So cherry-picking one race and not equally doing so another for "outreach", is an issue. Especially when you have that one subset that is dedicated to voting for Democrats and the other is not (because they have a choice of being catered to and the advantage of not having a target on their backs no matter what economic status they possess - whether dirt poor or a billionaire).

[2left4u]

86. Yes

I missed it you are correct, my comment on rural area's snd their issues were my own in conjunction with your data.

And to your point yes, working class is working class.

[PatrickforO]

39. Honestly, I have not noticed we are 'awash' in posts bidding us not to offend

Trump supporters.

Those Trump supporters who are white supremacists, white nationalists, ku klux klan, neo-nazis, nazis, aryan nations, etc. need to be exposed in the light of the sun and forced back under their slimy rocks. They are un-American and go against everything this Republic ought to stand for.

Those Trump supporters who supported him because they maybe live in a small town whose factory closed will only be saved when our party re-institutes the Fairness Doctrine, because if we really DO want to have a Republic, then as Obama told Letterman this January, we must ensure that everyone is operating from the same set of facts. It is the right-wing corporate propaganda bubble that must be burst to even render this group reachable.

As to me? I'm a new New Deal, social democrat. A progressive who believes that all of us would be better off with universal healthcare, expanded Social Security, public education extended past K-12 to state community colleges, colleges and universities, and heavier subsidies of childcare, and beefed up head start programs that can help all of our children be ready by the time they get to kindergarten.

I believe in a $15/hour minimum wage, strong unions and structured pensions.

I believe in social justice, with retraining and re-visioning for police departments, body cams they cannot turn off, dashcams on the cars. I believe in revisiting how K-12 schools are funded, and leveling out funding so inner city schools can have the same technologies and take advantage of the same educational advancements as schools serving the richer suburbs.

Enough - you all get the idea of where I stand. Now, if you're more conservative than me, fine! We're all going to be voting straight Democratic tickets come November, or at least I'm planning to. We can (and should) have arguments on policy AFTER we've taken back our republic from these robber barons.

My point is that I do not apologize for my political beliefs, for my belief in government solutions. In order for us even to HAVE the arguments on policy in a sane way, we've got to 1) get rid of Citizens United and related rulings so corporate dollars no longer corrupt those who should be representing our interests, not those of billionaires, 2) re-institute the Fairness Doctrine and get back Net Neutrality, 3) completely revisit how much we're spending on 'defense' and 'national security - there's absolutely no reason why we have to spend more than the next nine countries combined, and 4) reeducate the American people about how their taxes are (should be) spent on programs that make our lives better, since the government is supposedly 'of, by and for' us, the people. We can't just cut taxes indiscriminately and then expect the government programs we depend on to continue functioning to our benefit.

So, yeah, let's not bother right now with the hard-core Trump people, and these racist assholes? Fuck them. And I've not noticed any posts begging us to soft-pedal our positions so as not to offend some ignorant racist. That anyone should be advocating that is ridiculous.

Let's articulate our positions so that the independent voters WHO OUTNUMBER BOTH DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS can understand them and their benefits. If we take the 2016 Democratic platform, and explain how these positions are morally better than Republican ones, as well as less costly, more efficient and more fair, then we will win. Look at the candidates winning now, in these special elections. The American people have awakened.

[2left4u]

41. HERE, HERE

Well said

[KPN]

42. +1!

[Autumn]

45. Wonderful post. Thanks for posting it.

[leftstreet]

46. +1

[sprinkleeninow]

67. Word! eom

[LAS14]

88. It's so good to read so many well thought out replies like yours!! nt

[Squinch]

100. Well said, but I HAVE seen a number of posts telling us things like how to befriend

trump voters in diners, as if that is a good thing to do and we should all be doing it.

I think that is clearly a waste of time and breath. As they say, "It wastes your time and annoys the pig."

[PatrickforO]

104. You know, when I read your post, I laughed because I had this vision of

me, the urban socialist economist, walking into a Waffle House and trying to blend in with the bearded guys.

It would indeed waste my time and breath.

On a serious note - these racists need to be driven back under their rocks. My dad, who fought in the 2nd World War AGAINST fascist tyranny would be spinning is his grave, had we not cremated him, over these ugly fucks. Nazis don't get to march down our streets with their filthy brown shirts and their disgusting swastikas and their faces drawn up in rictuses of hatred in our America! Not without strong and unflinching challenge. Anti-semitism, anti-Muslim, anti-black, anti-Hispanic - these people are foul maggots squirming in their own moral filth.

Sorry for the rant. We've got to find a way to get rid of this racism and hatred.

[Squinch]

106. Yes. I do think all these "let's make nice with them" ideas are misguided. What we

SHOULD do is make their vote for trump be something that is so widely vilified that they disavow that they ever did it.

Any conversation needs to be about how trump and the republicans are screwing everyone. Other than that, I'm not willing to "make nice."

[KPN]

40. Strikes me that some should differentiate between Trump voters and those who did not vote or

voted 3rd party. There are plenty of potential Dem voters in 2018/20 out there who harbored disillusioned feelings based in economic policy/labor concerns in 2016. Discounting these potential votes for Dem candidates would be foolish. As some here like to say about legislation -- the pool of voters is a sausage made up of diverse interests, some of which overlap. One can choose to look at that as a positive or a negative. But any time we discount potential voters who otherwise reflect our views, well, that's a mistake, sausage or not.

[KPN]

48. "Why is it that Trump supporters' feelings are sacrosanct, but ours just don't matter?"

Hmmm ... guess maybe Dick Durbin doesn't quite see it as an either or thing.
[link:https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142016884|

[EffieBlack]

52. That's nice but Durbin doesn't speak for me and I don't take instruction from him

[KPN]

55. I don't know that anyone here is saying racism, bigotry, etc., are okay and should be tolerated.

I do think there is a pool of voters we should be going after who are driven largely by disillusionment around economic/labor issues who actually didn't vote or voted 3rd party in 2016. I also recognize that there is likely some overlap between that pool and some who did vote for Trump. I understand your point that a vote for Trump was a vote for racism. It's a legitimate view.

Didn't mean to raise your hackles with the Durbin post. I shouldn't have done that. At the same time, I do think Dick Durbin is on your side as am I.

[Bettie]

49. I don't think there is any point in going after most

Trump voters.

There are a few who might be turned, but they have already turned on Dear Orange Leader because of his actions.

Remember, it isn't a majority of us or even a large number who think we need to hold the hands of the "poor uninformed Trump voter" and it will magically turn them into decent human beings.

There are a few, probably some well-meaning people and a lot of trolls.

Most of us (Democrats) appreciate that we'll all need to work together to get this misadministration out of our government and fix the disasters they've started.

[TCJ70]

50. Do minority voters need some special coaxing to realize that Republicans arent the right choice?

This is the kind of shit that gets called out as identity politics and rightly so. Just as it isn’t right to coddle white people, why should minorities get coddled? Here’s a list of things everyone needs, regardless of race:
1. A decent wage
2. Affordable, quality healthcare
3. Shelter
4. Eduction
5. A general feeling of safety

Focus on those and you have a winning strategy and message that doesn’t target any one group in particular. Trump voters, if they still support him, aren’t coming around now. They’re too entrenched.

[Demit]

108. Eduction is more important than ever.

[jalan48]

51. Why does it have to be either/or?

Why the assumption that all those who voted for Trump are racist? Some who voted for Trump also voted for Obama. Pitting one group of voters against another accomplishes what exactly? Are the voters our enemy or are the leaders? While we yell at and label one another what really is happening?

[EffieBlack]

54. Why is it assumed that people who voted for Trump were racist?

First, I don't assume they're all racist. I know they are either racist or comfortable aligning themselves with racists. A distinction without a difference in politics since the only thing that matters is how they vote and the racists and the supposedly non-racist enablers all vote the same way. And since their votes don't come with an asterisk - "Trump voter but not a racist" - they get lumped in with the racists. That's the price you pay when you consciously decide to vote in for the racists' candidate.

Second, when you're blac in America, racist or not racist IS an either/or thing. We don't have the luxury that others enjoy of parsing out a racist's racism is no big deal because we like other things about him.

[jalan48]

58. So. this isnt about electing more Democrats.

It’s about purging potential voters who are perceived to be a certain way. You do know that recently elected Democrat Conner Lamb thanked Trump voters for helping to elect him. If he had adopted your language do you think he would have won?

[LAS14]

90. How do you know they're "comfortable?" My point is not to defend...

... them, but to encourage clear thinking. Of course there's a wide spectrum of comfort-level among people who vote for ANY candidate.

[we can do it]

53. Great question.....

[Proud Liberal Dem]

57. There is that concern out there

but it is mostly being written about in regards to Democrats not taking minority concerns seriously or not doing enough for minorities. And then we're being accused of not taking the concerns of Trump supporters/voters seriously enough either (and may not be able to win without them). I guess that it really doesn't matter what Trump/GOPers do (or don't do) for anybody).

[BlueWI]

59. I'm a Black voter and I have been on DU since the early 2000s.

Do I count as part of the "we" being referred to in the OP? My take is different on this issue.

I live in a purple state that went for Trump in 2016 and Scott Walker in 2010 and 2014. I have seen the consequences of these elections on policies and on the social climate of the state I live in. Don't want to see a Walker win in 2018 or a Trump win in 2020.

I have been canvassing lately supporting spring elections, local and statewide. I hope all are doing the same, because Democratic wins are badly needed everywhere.

Here's my main point: it's a bad idea to write off Trump voters because there are only so many voters, period. If we in Wisconsin wrote off Trump voters, we'd be writing off the winning majority from 2014 and 2010.

We can talk all day about who's racist and who's not. At the end of the day, it's good policies and clear messages that motivate voters, no matter who they voted for last election. Calling someone racist may be true sometime, but it's definitely not a policy, and it has limits as a motivational message.

Yes, communities of color need to be served and included much more fully by both parties and by all public policies. There is abosolutely no doubt about this and I don't if there's much disagreement about it on DU.

If we write off Trump voters we're writing off Iowa, Nebraska, Texas, Georgia, Montana, and other potentially purple states. We didn't write off New Mexico and Nevada in the 2000s and guess what? They are now reliably blue.

That's what I have. I want to see a blue Wisconsin in 2018 and Scott Walker DEFEATED and out of Madison. Republicans will race bait, suppress votes, and gerrymander - it's what they do. Shouldn't surprise anybody who's a Democrat. So it's time to step up and win - motivate our base and shrink their base with outreach, good policies, better advertising, and commitment from every Democrat to work hard enough to get it done!!

[jalan48]

68. +1

[uponit7771]

132. There's are more who didn't vote at all that are POC, better to PRIORITIZE them than the fools gold

[BlueWI]

139. There are not necessarily more POC non-voters.

It depends on the race. In the local race for city council that I am concentrating on, there are definitely fewer POC voters than lean Republican voters. In a non-partisan race, lean Republican voted matter.

Statewide - it depends on the race. You need POC voters, but the state is 88 percent white. Some POC are not likely voters in these contexts. Yes, they need to be included equitably in policy formation and outreach, but in local or state races that typically have low turnout, outreach will only get you so far in the vote totals with unlikely voters.

Why do you do speak so confidently about which strategies amount to fool's gold? Do you live in Wisconsin, like I have for 18 years? Do you think in terms of data, from the point of view of highest return in votes for limited resources, as demographics differ state by state and race by race? What's your motivation for even posting this kind of fact-free one-liner?

[WhiteTara]

64. I hear you Effie

I'm tired of that shit too. Durbin's "economic insecurity" is a old white man dodge against admitting his own bigotry and small mindedness. If this is against TOS to describe Durbin as Old and White and Man, please let me know and I'll self delete.

I know Dick is a Democrat and has worked for the Party for many years and has done some good stuff, but we do need to tend to our own before we strike out into hostile and unwelcoming territory. to court them. What's that old saying, "Charity begins at home."?

[LAS14]

65. Yesterday you cited two posts to illustrate your point (similar to this one's point).

Last edited Sun Mar 18, 2018, 02:07 PM - Edit history (1)

But neither post was doing what you describe. You're arguing with a straw man.

[Gothmog]

71. this is a stupid strategy that is is designed to help the GOP

African American voters are key to the Democratic base and we are not going to win with trump voters.

Trump voters are idiots

[aikoaiko]

81. I don't see DUers telling minority voters to eff off and that we don't need them.

And that is what I see being said about Trump voters -- even ones that have voted for Democrats in the past.

Of course, we need to continue to court minority voters by addressing their needs, but there should be room to court moderate Trump voters who are not happy with him.

I'm not writing off any demographic.

[meadowlander]

83. We can't afford to turn anyone off without a good reason.

I suspect what you are responding to is a series of posts pointing out how short-sighted it is to offend Trump supporters by calling them morons, rednecks, saying "Fuck them forever" after they've admitted they were wrong, etc. not "not making it a priority to reach out to them".

If there are any minority voters who will only vote for Democrats who insult poor and uneducated people or who insist that anyone who has made a mistake and now admits it should still have their nose rubbed in shit forever, then those are votes worth losing. I'm not convinced that they actually exist though.

[ismnotwasm]

89. Yeah Id like to see thread after thread

On that topic for sure. Far more meaningful and productive that white bigot angst

[KitSileya]

92. In 2020, 50.2% of American citizens under 18 will be minorities

which is a huge reason why a majority of white Americans are going batshit Trumpista. To the privileged, equality feels like oppression, and too many, even here on DU, think we should placate them. Fuck that. They are the past, and people of color are the future. A majority of *them* have shown that they are intelligent and compassionate enough not to get taken in by racist Trump, the self-serving and servile Jared Kushners and Ben Carsons nothwithstanding. (After all, the capos in Nazi concentration camps were fellow prisoners willing to serve the Nazis.)

Minority voters are much safer Democratic voting blocks, and undoing voter suppression and getting them to the polls is much better than trying to persuade the 53% white women and even higher percentage white men who voted for an avowed racist, misogynist, bigoted shitstain to vote for Democrats.

[Gothmog]

97. The Demographics are in favor of the Democrats

Texas is already a minority majority state and all we need to do is to get people to vote

[treestar]

98. I agree

The special elections prove we need minority turnout, not converted Deplorables (as if there ever will be such a thing)

[malaise]

102. Excellent post

Rec

[mythology]

103. Starting with the obvious, we've lost a lot of seats

that suggests we need to at least consider how to get more votes, particularly with the growth of the rural/urban divide and how that impacts representation. If the goal is to get more Democrats elected so we can get more of our shared values in law, then we need to make sure we appeal to enough voters to not just win in Alabama when Republicans nominate a guy who liked underage girls. Basic math says we should consider that. And if your feelings are so hurt that you stay home and thus diminish the odds that you will get more of the policies you'd prefer to see enacted, how does that make you any different than anybody else who says the two parties are the same?

Also an inclusive message doesn't seem to have hurt the appeal of the Obamas or of Dr King among minority communities.

Michelle Obama: No, our motto is, when they go low, we go high.

Barack Obama: Well, I say to them tonight, there's not a liberal America and a conservative America - there's the United States of America. There's not a black America and white America and Latino America and Asian America; there's the United States of America.

Again Barack Obama, this time citing Lincoln: As Lincoln said to a nation far more divided than ours, we are not enemies but friends. Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection.

Martin Luther King Jr: We must love our white brothers, no matter what they do to us. We must make them know that we love them.

Again Martin Luther King Jr: We must meet hate with love. We must meet physical force with soul force. There is still a voice crying out through the vista of time, saying: "Love your enemies , bless them that curse you , pray for them that despitefully use you."

[BumRushDaShow]

107. Here is where I have an issue

Starting with the obvious, we've lost a lot of seats...

...that suggests we need to at least consider how to get more votes, particularly with the growth of the rural/urban divide and how that impacts representation.

I think you leave out a huge reason why "we've lost a lot of seats". This seems to be the core of what is getting argued in all of these threads but not recognizing or giving weight to certain procedural causes before attempting to alter the party "brand" to "appeal" to some demographic that votes GOP.

One needs to look at how many seats we GAINED in 2006 and 2008 and then look at what happened when those seats were "lost" (and then some) in 2010 and beyond.

So what happened in 2010?

1.) Citizen's United = the literal upending of McCain-Feingold, allowing dark money to invade the elections
2.) The historical precedent = the party in power loses seats during a mid-term
3.) 2010 census = GOP seizing upon #1 and #2 to take control of a myriad of state governorships and/or legislatures, allowing them to impose gerrymandering, not just at the federal level, but at the state level
4.) A black President had actually been elected 2 years prior and a significant chunk of the populace couldn't handle that
5.) The rise of ALEC = states seized by the GOP began enacting Voter ID laws, etc., and eventually successfully challenged the Voting Rights Act itself in 2012/2013, literally torpedoing Section 4 (states/localities with past issues regarding voting rights), which then invalidated Section 5 (pre-clearance).

So this basically started a shut-out of Democrats nationwide and it had nothing do with Democratic Party "messaging".

In your citation of Barack Obama during his 2007/2008 campaign, note his more "seasoned" response 10 years later -

Obama to David Letterman: Media is dividing Americans
Nyshka Chandran | @nyshkac
Published 3:02 AM ET Fri, 12 Jan 2018

<...>

"One of the biggest challenges we have to our democracy is the degree to which we don't share a common baseline of facts," the former leader said. "What the Russians exploited, but it was already here, is we are operating in completely different information universes." "At a certain point, you just live in a bubble. And that's part of why our politics is so polarized right now. I think it is a solvable problem but it's one we have to spend a lot of time thinking about," he continued.

<...>

Obama himself relied on platforms such as Facebook and Twitter for his 2007-2008 presidential race, which he referred to as "the most effective political campaign in modern history." At the time however, his team didn't realize "the degree to which people who are in power, special interests, foreign governments, et cetera can, in fact, manipulate [social networks] and propagandize."

<...>

Moving on to address voting issues, Obama told Letterman that the U.S. is "the only advanced democracy that deliberately discourages people from voting," and that the country has "some of the lowest voting rates of any democracy on Earth." "We create all these barriers and difficulties and the reason is, that's all directly related to our history." Only a small category of people — white men, mostly — were initially eligible to vote back in the day but even when that changed, a sense of exclusion still prevailed, he said. "Those vestiges of thinking that only some of us are worthy of having a say, that carries on ... The truth is that people opt out themselves because they just don't think anything can happen."

One of the biggest complaints about the U.S. electoral process is gerrymandering — the practice of politicians re-drawing congressional districts to suit their voter base. In the 2016 election, there were four times as many states with Republican-skewed state House or Assembly districts than Democratic ones, according to an Associated Press analysis.

(*bold = all emphasis mine)

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/12/former-president-barack-obama-warns-on-polarizing-media-us-electoral-system.html

So he has matured and has recognized that from a pragmatic standpoint, there are external factors that are continually being put into place to thwart the idea of addressing and attacking "the divide".

[LAS14]

111. I can't see anywhere in your post that your are supporting the OP. Did you mean to???

I'm not criticizing. I may just be too tired to follow the argument.

[BumRushDaShow]

114. I was responding to post #103

and that post seemed to be a light bulb moment for me regarding some of the arguments being made not just in this thread, but since the 2016 election.

I.e., the over-arching theme has been - "How do Democrats reclaim voters".

In some cases, there are those who argue that you target those Drumpf voters who "strayed". Others say to get the voter turnout up - notably among the Democratic Party "base" due to barriers and/or general apathy.

But some of the arguments end up blaming party "messaging", leading to assertions regarding who needs to be "reached out to", which in turn triggers the inherent feeling of marginalization by much of the party "base". And that, IMHO, is because one cannot ignore some of the structural things that were done starting in 2010 that essentially drove a wedge into the heart of this country and our party, where the "messaging" was not to blame at all.

I.e., if some of the issues that I posted in #104 could be corrected somehow, that could help to alleviate going too far in a direction that would not be necessary when a level playing field is created/restored.

I also included quotes from Obama's appearance on Letterman (in response to post #103s citation of candidate Obama & MLK) and my sense is that although I think he (Obama) still believes in reaching "across the divide", he is ALSO acknowledging that the "divide" was artificially amplified by external forces, and it is something that needs to be "looked at" (his words). Certainly he and Eric Holder are already on the gerrymandering issue, so that is a BIG start and required step in the right direction.

Hopefully this clarifies!

[LAS14]

117. Thank you VERY MUCH! nt

[LAS14]

109. You go, Mythyology!!!!! So well stated!!! nt

[RandomAccess]

110. Effie, I do believe you've uncovered

THE very definition of "taken for granted."

Frankly, I think the Democratic Party has been horrible about catering to its base for many years now. And they keep getting away with it.

It's the ONE thing you have to admit about DJT: he hews to his base like a drowning man hews to the rotten piece of driftwood he's got hold of.

[tblue37]

112. + a brazillion! nt

[radius777]

116. We don't need Trump or Sanders country

to win, especially if it means becoming Dixiecrats to do it.

They hate Hillary just as they hate Obama because they resent the modern Dem party, of women's rights and diversity - plain and simple - no other reason.

Hillary won 3 million more votes than Trump, and without Comey/Rudy meddling with 11 days to go - she wins going away - even with the Russian meddling.

It's good Lamb won, and he did what he had to to win in a red district, but lets not pretend that is typical of the Dem electorate.

The rust belt is gone, IMO, as it is too old, white and culturally conservative. We can probably still get the more moderate rustbelt/midwest states but the more conservative ones are gone.

The future of the Dem party are states like AZ, TX, GA, NC that have become more metropolitan, diverse and younger over the past decade... likely to go the way of NV, VA and CO which were once deep red but are now light blue.

Put forth a message that stands up for our true base (which isn't "rural white folk" and hasn't been since 1964) against Trumpism and we'll turn out the Obama coalition in force and win every time.

[mcar]

119. And where are all the front page NYT articles

About all us poor, misunderstood Hillary voters?

[DonCoquixote]

120. if I may

"Why is it that Trump supporters' feelings are sacrosanct, but ours just don't matter? "

Black lives matter...Black VOTERS lives matter a LOT, and considering who shows up despite THREATS, the Democratic party would do good to remember that.

Apologizes in advance for minor cultural appropriation, but I think/hope most AA democrats would agree.

[betsuni]

126. "You know we can see and hear you, right?" Heh.

The base seems to be a "they" to such advocates.

[diva77]

127. Every time people blame Nader for the loss of Al Gore in 2000, they are throwing minority voters

under the bus.

http://www.gregpalast.com/one-million-black-votes-didnt-count-in-the-2000-presidential-election-rnits-not-too-hard-to-get-your-vote-lost-if-some-politicians-want-it-to-be-lost/

One Million Black Votes Didn’t Count in The 2000 Presidential Election…

...It’s Not Too Hard To Get Your Vote Lost -- If Some Politicians Want it To Be Lost

by Greg Palast
In the 2000 presidential election, 1.9 million Americans cast ballots that no one counted. "Spoiled votes" is the technical term. The pile of ballots left to rot has a distinctly dark hue: About 1 million of them -- half of the rejected ballots -- were cast by African Americans although black voters make up only 12 percent of the electorate.

This year, it could get worse.

These ugly racial statistics are hidden away in the mathematical thickets of the appendices to official reports coming out of the investigation of ballot-box monkey business in Florida from the last go-'round.

How do you spoil 2 million ballots? Not by leaving them out of the fridge too long. A stray mark, a jammed machine, a punch card punched twice will do it. It's easy to lose your vote, especially when some politicians want your vote lost.

While investigating the 2000 ballot count in Florida for BBC Television, I saw firsthand how the spoilage game was played -- with black voters the predetermined losers.

Florida's Gadsden County has the highest percentage of black voters in the state -- and the highest spoilage rate. One in 8 votes cast there in 2000 was never counted. Many voters wrote in "Al Gore." Optical reading machines rejected these because "Al" is a "stray mark."

By contrast, in neighboring Tallahassee, the capital, vote spoilage was nearly zip; every vote counted. The difference? In Tallahassee's white- majority county, voters placed their ballots directly into optical scanners. If they added a stray mark, they received another ballot with instructions to correct it.

SNIP

[Trumpocalypse]

130. No one is throwing anyone under the bus.

But just because this happened doesn't excuse Nader and his supports for their actions in 2000.

[Cha]

129. African American Women and African American

men.. in that order, are our Democratic base.. they vote in the highest numbers, and have always been there for the Democratic Party..

You bet I'm concerned about Voter Suppression in all the repub states.. like Wisconsin, etc etc

Wisconsin’s Voter-ID Law Suppressed 200,000 Votes in 2016 (Trump Won by 22,748)

https://www.thenation.com/article/wisconsins-voter-id-law-suppressed-200000-votes-trump-won-by-23000/

Mahalo Effie!

[DFW]

135. Minority voters are our backbone and a (or maybe the) major constituency.

There is a very good reason Republican voter suppression is aimed at them, and for that same reason we need to recognize and empower their votes.

It is a perilous position, because we have a LOT of different voices we need to listen to, whereas Republicans listen to money and pay lip service to the God Squad, end of story. Besides, no one is trying to deny the vote to wealth or the God Squad. Republicans ARE trying to deny votes wherever they can to students, blacks, Hispanics, native Americans, elderly people and anywhere where pockets of white voters that vote Democratic can be identified.