'Christianity as default is gone': the rise of a non-Christian Europe

[arenean]

Interesting article from The Guardian on the most/least religious countries in Europe. Amazing difference between the Czech Republic and Poland.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/21/christianity-non-christian-europe-young-people-survey-religion

[RKP5637]

1. Excellent!!!! n/t

[DFW]

2. It has very little relevance here, and doesn't exactly have a stellar track record, either

Here in Germany, centuries of wars were fought over religious preferences between Catholic areas and Protestant areas. For that matter, Ireland has been using it as a pretext, too, although economic and political factors played a major role there.

In the 1970s, when my brother and I visited Dubronvik, Yugoslavia (today's Croatia), we were taken in as boarders by a nominally "Muslim" family. Their daughters laughed it off as part of their past family history, as they put on their mini-skirts and made ready to go out to their favorite disco.

My wife was raised as a Catholic, got disgusted when she saw local priests diddling little boys and girls. We raised our girls here (Germany) to be aware of religion, but told them they could choose for themselves if they found some organized faith they thought was credible. As with us, they so far choose "none of the above."

In Spain, where I lived for a while as a teenager, Catholicism has lost a lot of its sway since Franco died. The monastery at Montserrat outside Barcelona is still worth the visit, but more for the architecture, the landscape and the local farmers' market than for any kind of spiritual enhancement.

For that matter, the most religious people here these days seem to be Muslim immigrants from the Middle East. Those that assimilate and force their beliefs on no one blend in just fine. Those who think they were sent here by Allah to convert everyone, and blow up whomever they can't tend to find less acceptance. "Honor killings (how's THAT for a term?" are still a problem among immigrant communities, but they are thankfully rare.

Like Dave Barry wrote when he turned 50 and made his 25 observations: "12. People who want to share their religious views with you almost never want you to share yours with them." Missionaries heading for Europe, please take note.

[Maeve]

3. Two of the more religious countries--Poland and Ireland

In both, religion has been a prime cultural identity marker (anti-Communist in Poland, anti-British in Ireland).

[Thyla]

4. It's almost Easter which means

That here in Spain there will be a bunch of creepy, sombre processions in practically every village where church members dress like grand wizards and then have a good old fiesta. Each to their own I guess and that is another good thing about Europe is just that. People keep their affiliations personal, there has been a reasonable separation of church and state in most cases. It works.

[John1956PA]

6. In 2013, Anthony Bourdain's show "Parts Unknown," covered an Easter procession in Granada, Spain.

From http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1309/28/abpu.02.html :

BOURDAIN: Holy Week or Semana Santa as it's called. Observed all over southern Spain with a seriousness and a fervor you might not see elsewhere. For seven days leading up to Easter, nearly every city in Andalucia gets taken over by ancient processions. To an outsider, it's an impenetrable montage of confusing, yet deeply evocative images.

Figures in dark hoods loom up from every direction. Smoke pots of incense, candles, religious imagery, and the crowds. Flashes of Goya (INAUDIBLE), dimly remembered impressions of the inquisition.

OK, watch this. These guys got to get their painstakingly crafted, massively sized and incredibly heavy and cumbersome float through the door, down the steps, and out into the street.

PEDRO, FRIEND: But the women who escort the Virgin, they wear candles to light the whole way to the cathedral.

BOURDAIN: Pedro is another of Fuen's brothers, the youngest, and when not working for an I.T. company in Ireland, he does this. He carries crushingly heavy religious floats. They're calleed casteleros. And they devout months of training to this.

That thing is huge.

PEDRO: Yes, they're moving. It's huge. And this is very, very heavy. Very heavy throne.

BOURDAIN: The Virgin float, about 3,500 pounds total, and precise dimensions that have to make it through the door just so. The bearers have to kneel. Crawl along with it on their backs to get it through the door. And the main event. Ready, set, up.

[Thyla]

8. Cheers for that.

I'm going to hunt down that episode, I haven't watched PU for ages.
I don't think our villages festivities will be that comprehensive though.

[lindysalsagal]

5. Science has replaced belief in fairy tales. There's hope for the future. We can take responsibility

for the earth and each other.

[FarCenter]

7. WW I & II revealed the moral bankruptcy of Christianity to the Europeans

The same mainstream Protestant denominations that were important in Northern Europe have also had vast declines in the US. To some extent, they have been replaced by the Evangelical sects, so the overall decline of Christianity is somewhat less in the US.

Meanwhile, the Catholic church has mutated considerably from what it was in 1900, and it has lost much of its grip over secular power in countries where Catholics are a majority.