A Univ. of Wisconsin campus pushes plan to drop 13 majors including English, history and philosop

[octoberlib]

The University of Wisconsin at Stevens Point has proposed dropping 13 majors in the humanities and social sciences — including English, philosophy, history, sociology and Spanish — while adding programs with “clear career pathways” as a way to address declining enrollment and a multimillion-dollar deficit.

Students and faculty members have reacted with surprise and concern to the news, which is being portrayed by the school’s administration as a path to regain enrollment and provide new opportunities to students. Critics see something else: a waning commitment to liberal arts education and a chance to lay off faculty under new rules that weakened tenure.



The plan to cut the liberal arts and humanities majors (see full list below) is in line with a failed attempt by Republican Gov. Scott Walker in 2015 to secretly change the mission of the respected university system — known as the Wisconsin Idea and embedded in the state code — by removing words that commanded the university to “search for truth” and “improve the human condition” and replacing them with “meet the state’s workforce needs.”

The push away from liberal arts and toward workplace skills is championed by conservatives who see many four-year colleges and universities as politically correct institutions that graduate too many students without practical job skills — but with liberal political views.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2018/03/21/university-of-wisconsin-campus-pushes-plan-to-drop-13-majors-including-english-history-and-philosophy/?utm_term=.46391c157f65



Republicans want a nation of serfs with no critical thinking skills.

[muntrv]

1. That'll keep the best and brightest in Wisconsin.

[RKP5637]

2. And hence would graduate idiots!!! A university I would avoid like the plague. Sounds more like a

Trump machine. Would they rename it tRump U!

[octoberlib]

5. It's a Koch machine. They were trying to do the same thing at UNC.

[hfojvt]

3. as a college graduate

I appreciate the need to land a job.

In my search for truth I have discovered that I need food and shelter.

[octoberlib]

10. This isn't really about jobs, though. It's about raising a bunch of young people to

be rw assholes who never question anything.

[hfojvt]

14. you think eliminating a few majors

that probably have very few students in them already - does that?

[Ellipsis]

25. wrong.

For one the philosophy depart for one has 93 majors... proportionally in the amount of student credit hours generated that's not small.

[hfojvt]

50. it seems to be about 1% of the student total

although I have a hard time believing such numbers exist.

I did find that enrollment at UW Stevens Point has dropped by 1,000 students, or almost 10% since 2013. In 2016 they had 400 fewer students there than they did in 1972.

Also, my question was whether the hyperbolic claim that eliminating some majors will suddenly create students who are rightwing a$$holes is really serious.

[Ellipsis]

59. The decline was expected many years ago.

I saw some pics from the demonstration today.... bunch fresh faced youngsters. Pure as potato starch.

Not so much alt- right red neck.... just not as diverse.

I hear you thou.


Walker cut the university budgets across the boards. Their deficit was created by Walker. They were in line budget wise until he screwed them over.

They are admin heavy in salary.... I'd pull 4.5 mill out of the administration.

[hfojvt]

84. the decline is not universal though

I did not see the other UW schools taking a hit like Stevens Point.

Perhaps something happened there because they lost 600 students in one year (either 2015-2016 or 2014-15 (I cannot remember which))

Pulling money out of admin was perhaps part of Walker's argument for making the cuts.

[Ellipsis]

86. I'd be curious to see if that number coincides with the exodus of the Dean of Fine Arts

who is now running the Institute of Art and Design in Milwaukee.

Some of the talented professors and staff without roots have either left or took early retirement. They could see the writing on the wall.

There was also a large number of Japensese exchange students and I wonder if that is still the case.

My reference to admin was partly a jest to replace the chancellor.

I fear Walkers reasoning is less conscientious and more nefarious.


It's also not the most attractive campus in the state.

[oberliner]

41. English?

You think very few students major in English?

[poboy2]

32. I guess you should have discovered the truth of a trade school.

[LanternWaste]

37. I don't think anyone is arguing against any vague point you've made.

I don't think anyone is arguing against any vague point you've made, not do your points counter anything in the OP.

[LBM20]

56. There are many jobs in the liberal arts, and we need educated human beings not robots.

We have job schools. They are called community colleges and technical colleges. And a liberal arts program also gives us important academic minors and are the foundation for graduate school programs which are in fact more job oriented such as law school, programs in working in education, etc.

[hfojvt]

83. we also have many liberal arts colleges

And also a person can become "educated" without MAJORING in philosophy, sociology or english.

Presumably a person can become educated without even taking university classes, although the motivation is not likely to be there.

Law school? The last thing our society needs is more lawyers.

[RKP5637]

4. And what degree did you get?

Oh, I majored in Idiocracy!

[WhiskeyGrinder]

6. How can your mission be to meet state workforce needs when you're hemorrhaging jobs?

[DFW]

7. While in college.........

I took, among other things, German, Swedish, Russian and Spanish.

In my very cool job, I have almost daily need of fluency in German, Swedish, Russian and Spanish.

Obviously, if I had planned to run for governor of Wisconsin, I would have taken courses to prepare me for that job: theater, lying 101, anti-sociology and advanced corruption.

[NewJeffCT]

12. don't forget

money laundering if you wanted to be a Republican politician... Russian would have been a big plus, though.

[DFW]

46. Not in my day

The Soviet Union showed no signs of cracking when I was in college (1970-74). The biggest advantages of learning Russian in my college days were learning to read Pushkin in the original, being able to understand the lyrics of songs I was learning on the balalaika, and being placed in West Berlin to spy on radio transmissions of the Soviet Air Force in West Berlin instead of being sent as a grunt in Vietnam. That last wasn't me, but a friend of mine, who had some very funny stories to tell, as some of the radio communications involved a lot of funny episodes and a lot of obscenities, which they were required to transcribe word for word.

[sinkingfeeling]

8. We don't need foreign talkin' people, social workers, and none of that liberal political science.

[FarCenter]

9. UW-Stevens Point started out as a teachers college -- occupational training.

It is one of 11 UW campuses and has about 5% of the students.

[octoberlib]

11. Well, thank god it's small. I'm sure Walker wants this for the whole system , though.

I know because they're trying the same crap in NC and it's a Koch funded effort. They haven't been very successful here, either. Yet.

[FarCenter]

13. Life is tough for small campuses in large systems - they have a problem establishing an identity

One way to do it is to focus resources on a particular area. UW-Stout is the Polytechnic school in the western part of the state, which helps give it identity. Not sure what Stevens Point is trying to become.

UNCs campuses must have the same problem. What is UNC-Greensboro known for?

[octoberlib]

21. They still need to offer English, though at least. That's ridiculous.

[FarCenter]

35. They need to offer Freshman English, and a couple of writing & lit courses, but not a BA in English.

Those are the only English courses needed to satisfy the required courses and humanities electives in the curricula of other majors. They would be the same courses that are typically offered in a Community college where you transfer on to a 4-year program elsewhere.

[Ellipsis]

24. Stevens Point is nationally ranked natural resource college.

One of the best in the country.

[Yupster]

64. 89.4 % acceptance rate

doesn't sound that great.

[Ellipsis]

66. It is.

http://eeingeorgia.org/net/org/info.aspx?s=78263.0.0.4863

[Abnredleg]

28. Education, Nursing and MBA

That's their major claim to fame, although they also have a very good School of Music and a joint nanotech program with NC A&T. Their creative writing program used to be very good but I don't know how they rank. They've done a good job with undergrad enrollment numbers but in part that was by lowering entrance standards.

[octoberlib]

31. Well, all those are good career pathways right there.

[Poiuyt]

18. 8600 students. It's not that small

[Ellipsis]

20. we are talking 1894 here and Wausau is still pissed...

Last edited Thu Mar 22, 2018, 10:09 AM - Edit history (2)

it didn't get the university instead.

[Dorian Gray]

69. I was going to point this out

It's one campus in the UW system, and it's one of the smaller ones. Vocational training isn't a horrible thing, nor does it mean someone will lean Right Wing. And I assume students would still have to fulfill a core set of classes (even if the majors don't exist) at the school.

I think this deserves to be discussed. Scott Walker may hope for a right leaning populace, but it's not a foregone conclusion bc of vocational training.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

92. Sure, but vocational training does not college

Call it a STEM Institute, then. Getting rid of the liberal arts kind of defeats the purpose of a well rounded university education.

[Ellipsis]

15. I can speak directly to this.

This maneuver started when Bernie first came on board, the chancellor. There has been a mandate to reach out to community business since his tenure started about 5 or so years ago. Sentry Insurance world headquarters is in Stevens Point for one. They first combined fine arts with letters and a couple of years ago after a previous attempt failed. After the attempted failed coup, the Dean of fine arts left and went on to run the Institute Art and Design in Milwaukkee and took his acumen with him. After his exodus, the university successfully combined the two schools.

Bernie is from Texas. Bernie has to go.

Stevens Point is nationally known as a natural resource college and its Theatre and Dance program is one of the top 25 in the country.

Portage county where the university resides is a liberal island in that part of the state.

There is much opportunity with mining just to the north in both copper and gold. Already there is a new proposed gold mine next to a jewel of a park called on the Eau Claire rive called the Eau Claire Dells.

There's a lot more going on here.

Please rec this thread up.

[octoberlib]

22. Thanks for your input

[GusBob]

30. Thanks for your informative post. Point of information:

when I hear natural resource college, I think "DNR" ( I have worked with many DNR folks and quite a few are UWSP grads)

Scott Walker and the Wisconsin GOP have the DNR in their target sights. I do not envy folks pursuing a career in that agency

Also has far as mining in Northern Wisconsin, I am vehemently opposed. I don't see how a career in natural resources could benefit from mining

[Ellipsis]

45. Can't have any free thinking ichthyologists swimming about out there.

[jodymarie aimee]

53. thank you

we had a protest/sit in today...it is on TV right now...Bernie is pissed...he no likey the publicity....My sister in law, a Julliard Ballerina is the chair of Theatre/Dance.

[Ellipsis]

58. One of the top 25 schools in the country for Theatre

[BSdetect]

16. To be renamed as Dumbfuckistan Central Trump University

[oasis]

17. Who needs history and philosophy with King Coal coming back?

[Poiuyt]

19. Scott Walker never finished college

Naturally, it's not high on his list

[appalachiablue]

79. Was the reason Scott left college in his senior year ever determined?

Rumors incl. thrown out for some infraction/leaving before official, family issues, etc. as you probly know.

[xmas74]

88. It's always been said in state that he was forced

To leave over the student election fiasco. That has been reported repeatedly by people who attended Marquette when it all happened.

[appalachiablue]

89. Now I remember some about a student election, tx.

[Poiuyt]

95. That's the rumor

Walker was running for class president. When the student newspaper ran an editorial that was very unfavorable to Walker, he and his goons went around and collected all the papers they could find so they could destroy them.

[hauckeye]

23. My daughter is a student there

She is a science major so this doesn’t affect her, but her roommate is a political science major and doesn’t know if she’ll be able to finish at Point

[Blue_true]

26. I am trained as an Engineer.

When I was in college, I thought having to take sociology classes, art appreciation classes, writing classes, classic literature classes instead of me focusing exclusively "hard science" classes like the chemistry and physics electives, calculus levels through to Diffential Equations, drafting, computer coding and programming was a waste of my time. I was wrong, dead wrong. Some of the professors in the humanities and literature required courses were insufferable assholes, but the courses provided me with importance balance that I realized had great value as my career progressed. Eliminating those required courses is a gross mistake, IMO.

[octoberlib]

33. +1 great post!

[Johonny]

40. You can tell the difference between Engineers coming out of liberal art schools

and Engineering factory schools. A liberal arts education makes you a more rounded person, but more than that it teaches you how to think outside your field. Something that it turns out you need to do no matter where you plan to work.

[Tanuki]

70. Steve Jobs credited a calligraphy course he happened to audit at Reed College

(which was taught by a former Trappist monk) with inspiring his computer type fonts:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2016/03/08/the-trappist-monk-whose-calligraphy-inspired-steve-jobs-and-influenced-apples-designs/

...."Throughout the campus every poster, every label on every drawer, was beautifully hand calligraphed. Because I had dropped out and didn't have to take the normal classes, I decided to take a calligraphy class to learn how to do this. I learned about serif and sans serif typefaces, about varying the amount of space between different letter combinations, about what makes great typography great. It was beautiful, historical, artistically subtle in a way that science can't capture, and I found it fascinating.

None of this had even a hope of any practical application in my life. But 10 years later, when we were designing the first Macintosh computer, it all came back to me. And we designed it all into the Mac. It was the first computer with beautiful typography. If I had never dropped in on that single course in college, the Mac would have never had multiple typefaces or proportionally spaced fonts."....

[exboyfil]

78. I don't think this proposal does that

No ABET accredited program would allow that to happen.

Agree with you about the Social Studies and Humanities classes as part of an engineering curriculum. I always felt better when I had one in a semester. Since I transferred in and tested out of several of the classes, I only took four of those classes at Purdue. I wish I had more in hindsight. Fortunately I also had an Engineering Ethics class that also functioned like a humanities class (it was my favorite class in college). I loved my professor. He actually got gassed at Berkeley. This was when I was much more conservative (Reagan voter two times).

[dembotoz]

27. stevens point grad...wanted my kid to go there.

Located pretty much dead center in the state of wisconsin.

wonderful school

[brooklynite]

29. Doesn't bother me...

I would argue that there's no "right way" to implement higher education, and there will always be alternative schools to choose from.

[Ellipsis]

34. Too bad, it should.

It's more then adjustment of majors in a university system college.

...any English majors at Brooklyn college? It eradicating liberal thinking professors free thinking students in specific demographic.

[FarCenter]

54. Yes, BA English at Brooklyn College.

http://www.brooklyn.cuny.edu/programs/index.jsp?div=U

Also at LIU Brooklyn, formerly known as Brooklyn Polytech.

http://www.liu.edu/Brooklyn/Academics/Programs

But in NYC an English major can possibly get a job in the media and ad business - maybe.

[LanternWaste]

38. Of course it doesn't bother you.

Of course it doesn't bother you.

[brooklynite]

43. Please elaborate...

[VOX]

55. Any effort to further render Americans dumber, more illiterate and incurious should bother you.

A rounded liberal-arts education is how we best learn how to understand one another— where we’ve been and where we’re going, and how things get done (or undone).

Right-wing ideologues demonize higher learning in general, as the principles taught in liberal arts courses allow students to see through their game.

It’s no secret that 45’s supporters self-identify as “school of hard knocks” types. Their ignorance of the world, its people and how things work makes them unmovable. And that’s precisely what the right wants: unquestioning foot soldiers.

[Yupster]

65. I don't blame small schools

who are trying different things.

They have to do what they can to survive.

[dembotoz]

90. it is not a small school it is a god damn state university

[LAS14]

36. Drop history???? As they say, those who don't remember history are doomed to repeat it.

Or something like that.

This sort of <I need a word that is the temporal version of chauvinism> seems way too prevalent in our current age.

[appalachiablue]

82. 'Past is Prologue,' The Tempest by Shakespeare

History, culture and humanities are essential!

[DetlefK]

39. Honestly, I support that.

They way I understood it, you study something in College just because studying something in College is what you do. And then you take up a job that can be totally unrelated to what you just studied.

I understand the desire for streamlining. For example, in Germany you do not simply study. You decide in the very first semester what discipline you want to study and then you study that from beginning to end (supplemented with lectures and exams from related disciplines).
You can go to other lectures on the side, but they don't count towards YOUR study. And switching the field of study halfway is very rare.

In Germany, there is no such phase where you start studying, then you discover yourself, then you decide what you actually want to study. You have to make that decision BEFORE YOU EVEN ENTER THE FIRST SEMESTER. (Which isn't that bad. Tuition costs only about €200 per semester in Germany.)



And I understand that they want to get rid of art and social sciences. It's hard to find a job in these anyways.

[Javaman]

42. so basically they want to turn The University of Wisconsin into a workhouse.

not surprised

[Ellipsis]

44. Yes. retask thebricks and mortar... and the new bricks and mortar.

https://www.stevenspointjournal.com/story/news/local/2018/01/03/chancellor-uw-stevens-point-highlights-2017/999470001/

UW-Stevens Point was named a U.S. Department of Education Green Ribbon School, one of only nine postsecondary institutions in the nation recognized for advances in sustainability. We were selected as the top Wisconsin institution of higher education for Green Ribbon Schools.

We again earned a spot on 2018 The Princeton Review Green College Honor Roll. The only Wisconsin school to make this exclusive list, UW-Stevens Point was among 24 U.S. colleges in the nation to receive the highest score possible.

UW-Stevens Point is on the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency’s (EPA’s) Top 30 College and University list of largest green power users in the Green Power Partnership. The university voluntarily uses more than 25 million kilowatt-hours (kWh) of green power annually, which represents 90 percent of our total power needs. We use 100 percent green electricity.

[GusBob]

49. It's not UW

It's one of many satellite institutions across the state

[Ellipsis]

57. It is not a satellite.... Marshfield and Marathon would be satelites.

But it's not UW Madison.

[lame54]

47. Major in window washing with...

A minor in ditch-digging

[ehrnst]

48. Why do low paid service workers need those?

The intellectual, educated liberal arts elite don't serve the needs of the Koch Bros.

Why create more?

Too easily dissatisfied.

[lapfog_1]

51. this explains it better than I can

[Mountain Mule]

52. K&R! nt

[aikoaiko]

60. This seems a little overblown. Not having majors is not the same thing as not having classes.

All the bachelor degrees still need to have social sciences and humanities general education courses.

There are two other UW schools within 20 miles of Stevens Point. Eau Claire and Oshkosh are within 60 miles.

There are plenty of opportunities for social science and humanities majors in the area.

[Ellipsis]

61. This is trial ballon for a national effort to combat perceived liberalism in universities.

This is Scott walker's machine. If you trust Walker ...well there you go.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

93. Who do you think is going to teach English as a university without and English Dept?

If a university wants the ability to get the best possible candidate, then this isn't it.

[aikoaiko]

96. There can still be an English department (or any department) without an English major.

Sometimes they group faculty without majors into a division. Without majors, they might group English, philosophy, and others under Humanities

Its true that most faculty would prefer to work with a program with a major within there discipline,, but there are lots of excellent faculty who work for programs without majors.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

97. So, again, what level of prof do you think that's going to attract?

[aikoaiko]

98. An excellent teacher of undergraduates, potentially.

There are no guarantees of candidate quality, but there are good fits out there.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

62. The Corporate State wants a population of Deltas from Huxley's "Brave New World."

They want to turn all the state universities into trade schools.

The Ivy League universities will produce the Alphas.

These guys remind me of the Ferengi from Star Trek. Every decision they make is based on one question: Is it profitable?

[JI7]

63. Why can't they do Both ? with changes in technology happenig all the time

even the things they train for may not gaurantee a job .

[nitpicker]

67. This reminds me of an English teacher at one university

That according to the teacher, concentrates on nursing and culinary arts.

A result: a story written in the far future, on another planet at a university (with a focus on the sciences, including training medical techs), with a teacher trying to get three recalcitrant students to appreciate Shakespeare.

[MountCleaners]

68. I remember...

I remember some years ago, reading an op-ed by a conservative lamenting that colleges teach "critical thinking", citing critical thinking as an example of far-leftism dominating in universities.

[sarah FAILIN]

71. There is a person I know with philosophy degree..

4 years at a very expensive school and his job is the furthest thing from what I imagine a person with a 4 year degree having since you can do the same thing fresh out of high school. I hope he doesn't have massive student loan debt.
I have no problem eliminating some majors if it is proven people can't support themselves after getting the degree. Leave some options for elective classes, but to make an entire college career in a study path like philosophy seems like a recipe for failure if you plan on doing something besides church related positions. Jmo.

[Tanuki]

72. A philosophy degree wasn't a "recipe for failure" for Georege Soros, Peter Thiel,

Carl Icahn, and the others listed here:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/successful-philosophy-majors-2014-1

...or Phil Jackson, Steve Martin, Ricky Gervais, etc:

http://www.bestcollegesonline.com/blog/14-famous-people-who-were-philosophy-majors/



http://www.businessinsider.com/11-reasons-to-major-in-the-humanities-2013-6

[sarah FAILIN]

87. Well I wish him luck

But I think the list of people working at low paying jobs and philosophy degrees probably outnumber your list. Not that there isn't a value in all education, I just would rather my kids have degrees that anyone holding them can make money at. Jmo.

[MrScorpio]

74. Another reason why we all can't have nice things in this country.

[milestogo]

75. Meet Steve Nass - education-hating State Sentator from Wisconsin

I'm gonna take a guess he had something to do with this.

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2017/legislators/senate/1519

[hueymahl]

76. The story has a BS premise

And I disagree with the OP's conclusion that this is evidence of the Republicans wanting a nation of serf's. More than a little hyperbole in both cases.

This is simply a struggling local school. It is trying to adapt to make a name for itself. While I personally think the courses they are considering dropping are critical to a well-rounded education, focusing on the "hard" STEM fields. Hardly a radical idea - technical universities across the nation do this and have forever.

[exboyfil]

80. ABET accredited engineering programs

Require about 24 hours of Social Studies and Humanities. It is not like these courses are abandoned by a refocus towards a more technical curriculum. I suspect B.S. Technology programs are similar. Nursing also has a large component of these classes.

The departments will still exist to offer service courses.

[appalachiablue]

77. The De-Liberalisation of Academia and Education at work.

Political Science is also on the hit list, of course.

Humanities and liberal arts have been under attack for some time and does it show.

Same for Civics which hasn't been taught in many public schools for decades.

[smirkymonkey]

81. Republicans just want universities that churn out industry fodder.

God forbid anybody should be taught to think, question and expand their horizons.

[FarCenter]

85. Note also that University of Wisconsin is a land-grant university

The Morrill Acts funded educational institutions by granting federally controlled land to the states for them to sell, to raise funds, to establish and endow "land-grant" colleges. The mission of these institutions as set forth in the 1862 Act is to focus on the teaching of practical agriculture, science, military science and engineering (though "without excluding... classical studies" ), as a response to the industrial revolution and changing social class. This mission was in contrast to the historic practice of higher education to focus on an abstract liberal arts curriculum

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land-grant_university

Some parts of the system should be carrying out this original mission. Actually, University of Wisconsin - Madison is the land grant university of the state.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_land-grant_universities#Wisconsin

[brooklynite]

91. In the 1970s and 80s, the NYT "Help Wanted" section had a job title of "College Graduate"

The premise was that someone who had acquired a liberal arts education could undertake a corporate job and learn the specifics in the office.

The category no longer exists. Many corporate employers want specific technical skills or backgrounds, and someone with a Major in English or Philosophy may find themselves at a disadvantage.

[MichMary]

94. I got a degree in English

at a different UW school. This was in the '70's. It was a very small department, in terms of students. Some of my classes had only about a half dozen students. But just as many full professors as if there were probably five times as many students. There were efforts to economize even back then. They had gotten rid of their Linguist, the Chaucerian was teaching Linguistics, and the Spencerian was teaching Chaucer, IIRC.

This is really not a problem. You can still get a degree in English, philosophy, or whatever at a UW school. If they can shift students around and eliminate teaching positions, maybe they will be able to lower tuition rates in order to attract more students. UW credits transfer, fully and easily, so rather than having the choice to major in English at Point, maybe you go to LaCrosse or Eau Claire. This isn't a huge imposition.