It's amazing that some swallow this, but there's no free education and no free medical care anywhere

[DFW]

There are no "free" roads, bridges, police departments or military, either.

It's just that not all countries and not all citizens pay for them in the same manner.

No one builds a bridge for free. No one teaches college for free. No one operates on a patient for free, and then goes to beg for spare change at the local train station at rush hour. No one even writes up parking tickets for free. Cost distribution can even differ with a country. Depending on the autonomy of regional/state/provincial governments, each geopolitical entity devises its own system of how to pay for all of these. Taxes, fees, private insurance, or outright pay-as-you go, whatever. It all gets paid for somehow or other.

There is no such thing as free medical care or a free education any more than there is a free loaf of bread at your local baker's. Some countries distribute the costs more evenly/efficiently/justly than others, that's all.

[NCTraveler]

1. Very poor terms.

No matter who is using them.

There are very well known names for the same thing that are much better.

[DFW]

9. I see them bandied about as if many truly believe there are such things

We won't come close to Western European style medical and education costs until we come to terms with how the Europeans pay for them. Some people seem to believe in the Shmoo.

[Matthew28]

2. well,

we as a society should educate our population, pave our roads and make sure everyone has healthcare.

Is it free? No. Of course not...But it is the right thing to do.

[eppur_se_muova]

6. And on a practical basis, it's actually cheaper than the alternative.

The alternative being large numbers of uneducated, unemployable people forced to rely on any means available to survive. Criminal behavior (you know, non-billionaire, non-tax-offshoring criminal behavior, the type that gets punished) inevitably follows.

[angstlessk]

20. IF we shifted 1/2 of our tax money we already pay from military to health care

and education it would be FREE to the taxpayer..we pay no more in taxes and SAVE the cost of insurance and college!

That's about free as it gets.

[dameatball]

3. No such thing as free shipping either....:)

[BigmanPigman]

4. SHHHHH! Socialism is a bad word, didn't you hear?

Read about the Nordic countries, their lifestyle, govt. taxes, work, family, health, lifespan, etc. The happiest and healthiest on the planet are also the most socialist and have been since the 50s. It works...and no govt and personal greed, guns, misogyny etc like we have.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/112412564

[DFW]

13. I'm not advocating socialism

Every time that has been tried, it has always ended up in dictatorship with a small smug elite that has to use force to enforce its hold on power. ¿Allo Presidente?

Small, mostly homogeneous countries with a tightly run social democracy cannot provide a model for a continent-spanning diverse country such as ours, anyway. Germany, with its diverse, regulated, market economy, is about the closest thing Europe has to what we face, and even there, the similarities are tenuous at best. Lately, we spend every Republican administration rehashing old formulas that we know don't work, and spend, it seems, every Democratic administration trying to get back to zero from the damage the Republicans have done, and get blown out of the water every time anyone proposes anything hinting at innovation.

I'm tired of the political version of Conrad Cornelius O'Donald O'Dell ("now I know everything anyone knows" )

[handmade34]

5. words matter....

climate change better than global warming
and...
TNSTAAFL

[padfun]

7. That's why it is called "Universal" Healthcare

Nobody claimed it is free, but universal. Everyone gets it. We do pay for it, except some of the recipients, but it is free only for them. The rest help pitch in (taxes and benefits) to make it work. And the world a better place for it.

[Hortensis]

8. This unique wisdom is...an epiphany. I'm no longer progressive,

as of right NOW!!! Why not bottle it, or at least write a book that will end idiocy on the left forever?

Occurs to me, potatoes that fall of a truck aren't "free" either! Someone has to prepare land, grow them, process them, ship them to market hire staff, etcetera, etcetera.

Free free to use this.

[JCanete]

10. No shit? Who is swallowing this? who are you talking about believes that this comes out of thin air?

It is that our current system sucks ass that is at issue...that it is criminally inequitable. Government paid systems that appropriately tax the mega-wealthy in this nation would be a way to even that playing field some.

Rather than making up a straw man of the argument to tear down, why don't you weigh in on the merits or failings of that approach, because here, we pay through the nose for insurance and the benefits suck, and the same goes for higher education. Or some of us don't pay for them at all because we cdan't afford them, and we don't get none.

I see no problem at all presenting these benefits as free to those who want or need to use them. It is not problematic branding.

[YOHABLO]

11. There is something about your comments that have a right wing bent.

This is normally the other side's chant. It's about coming together for the common good of The People. It's about what we value as a society. It's about those at the top paying their fair share of taxes .. because they value higher standards for the society that provided the resources for themselves becoming prosperous.

[DFW]

16. Hardly. More like Obama's chant.

Like the idiots he called out for thinking that roads and bridges somehow materialized out of nowhere tax-free. "You didn't build that."

We need to re-allocate our resources, not only have a more equitable tax system (bashing "millionayahs and billionayahs" will not do the trick on its own), but use the revenue wisely once it's in house. If supplemental billions are confiscated and then used to develop a new fighter-bomber of questionable value to all except Lockheed-Martin, that won't improve our education or reduce the number of people who have no access to health care.

Si me ves como alguien de derecha, no me ves claramente, pero como quieras.

[guillaumeb]

12. Recommended.

In a country that spends over 50% of the budget on the war machine,
in a country that constantly reduces taxes on the 1% resulting in higher taxes and fees on the 99%,
access to tuition free education and medical care for all is seen by the 1% as unaffordable.

[DFW]

14. Exactly. We DO have the resources.

But if we continue to allocate them poorly, we will never make any progress.

[guillaumeb]

15. And we will revert.

And that, in my view, is the GOP platform. A return to a pre-union America where most workers had to work until they died.

[DFW]

17. The astounding thing is, as viewed from over here

It's incredible how many people vote for a "patriotism" geared to make their lives poorer, fueled by an empty promise of better things down the road. It's a medieval formula the Christians used here in Europe in the Middle Ages to promise heaven to serfs who toiled in the fields of the nobility from cradle to grave.

[Tipperary]

18. I do not know anyone who believes that there is anything free.

[DFW]

19. Seek and ye shall find

And they are not far away

[mountain grammy]

21. I think a lot of people who say free know nothing is free,

but we have "free" libraries, "free" roads (as opposed to toll roads,) "free" parks, etc. Pretty sure most people get the concept that our taxes pay for everything "free."

So now we're tax cut robots and running on credit. Even local communities are struggling to pay for the free stuff. My county rejected raising the mill levy for libraries 3 times before finally approving it in 2016, and it took a huge effort to get that passed. So, you do have a good point, many people don't get the connection until they don't have a library.

I completely agree with what you said furthur up this thread, that we do have the resources, but we continue to allocate them poorly. So true, and it sure makes us look bad.

[Rob H.]

22. Imma file that under No shit, Sherlock

Nice job demolishing that strawman, though. That’ll learn ‘im!

[lostnfound]

23. Theres no free war, bunker busters, predator drones or prisons either.

But as a society we manage to pay for plenty of those.