Ohio student shot at school gets detention for participating in national school walkout then told..

[Soph0571]

..to apologize

Less than two years ago, Cooper Caffrey was sitting in his school’s cafeteria eating chicken nuggets. Then he was shot. So, it seems fitting he would want to participate in the protests demanding school safety and a stop to school shootings. Yet, when he did, his principal gave Caffrey detention.
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His principal made an announcement that morning that many were wearing the colors of MSD in solidarity, however, he warned all students that if they walked out, they’d be sent to detention. Caffrey was furious.

When the time came, Caffrey, along with 42 other students, walked past the cafeteria in which he was shot, and out their school’s doors. They were all given detention.
--------------------------
Board President David French even went so far as to say that the students should apologize to the school resource officer.

Caffrey’s father turned to his son and watched the blood drain from his face.

“It was like being shot all over again,” Caffrey told his dad of French’s words. Once again he was back on the cold cafeteria floor, begging for help. French wanted an apology instead.

[link:https://www.rawstory.com/2018/03/ohio-student-shot-school-gets-detention-participating-national-school-walkout-told-apologize/|

Literally adding insult to injury

[Angry Dragon]

1. Unfeeling and unthinking principal

[safeinOhio]

2. I can relate...

my problem with public school was the principal of the thing...

[malthaussen]

30. my vice-principal (which I always thought a great title) and I...

... had a wary relationship. I'm sure he was glad to see my back; I know I was glad to see his.

-- Mal

[MurrayDelph]

39. The principal of the thing

is why 38 years ago I became an ex-public-school teacher, and found my way into industrial education for a major computer company (that no longer exists).

[Captain Stern]

3. This kind of thing is what makes civil disobedience work.

You don't disobey stupid rules because you think they don't apply to you.......you disobey them because they do, and they're still stupid rules. This kid disobeyed a stupid rule, and he should take the punishment.

Now, the 'authorities' get to explain why it's a good idea to punish a kid, that was previously shot, for protesting gun violence. And, they get to do it while the whole country is watching.

[dembotoz]

4. +100

[3Hotdogs]

7. He "won" ten times more because of the idiot principal.

[mythology]

13. That doesn't mean when the kid realizes just how utterly stupid people can be

won't come as a huge shock. For example look at the people here who are shocked when Trump does something especially stupid even by Trumpian standards of general incompetence.

[exboyfil]

36. Suspending students for unauthorized absence from class

is not a stupid rule. Preventing someone to eat at a lunch counter because of the color of his/her skin is. So which causes merit unpunished truancy? It is best for the administration to apply the rules regarding truancy uniformly. It actually gives more power to a movement. Think Letter from a Birmingham Jail.

I am not sure about the apology? What was he supposed to apologize for. If it was merely walking out, then the request is unwarranted. If he insulted the officer without provocation then that is different.

I think his father has the appropriate response to the detention.

Marty Caffrey understands school officials were put in a tough position, worried about safety, and will always be grateful for how they helped his son in the aftermath of the shooting.

“The whole purpose of a walkout is to protest against an establishment,” he wrote on Facebook. “I do not expect the establishment to support the walkout.”

Without punishment, he told The Enquirer, it would have been meaningless.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2018/03/29/student-shot-madison-schools-ohio-gets-detention-school-shooting-protest/461379002/

[csziggy]

40. Forcing the students to apologize for something they believe in is stupid

Especially in this case where victims of a school shooting are protesting the laws that make school shooting more lethal!

I would NEVER apologize to these administrators.

Detention is OK - many of the students who walked out across the country faced that punishment. But a forced apology is an insult to the students - and meaningless in itself.

[Ms. Toad]

44. Not just stupid,

It is a violation of their first amendment rights.

[csziggy]

46. Yes, but it's stupid because if the student took it to court they would win

This sort of thing has been litigated all the way to SCOTUS and the students have won.

If I were one of the students there I'd probably go on a silence strike. Not apologize and not say a word in school the rest of the year - or until the administrators apologize to me. I'd attend classes, do the work but keep silent.

[Ms. Toad]

48. Actually, they wouldn't, at least as to the detention.

Walking out of class is fundamentally disruptive, and school are permitted to make and enforce rules to minimize the disruption - as long as the rules are not designed to suppress or especially target speech. Assuming the school regularly assign detentions for people who cut class, they are not specifically targeting the speech

The case you are thinking of involved wearing black armbands to school, but did not otherwise interfere with the educational process. in other words they engaged in pure political speech (entitled to the most protection) without interfering with the educational activities.

As to the requested apology, my understanding is that was a suggestion made at an open meeting of the school board, not an obligation actually imposed as punishment. (If it was, it does infringe his free speech rights - specifically, his right against compelled speech.)

[csziggy]

49. I was referring to the forced apology

Most of the stories I have seen did not express it as a request but a command and part of the punishment.

The detention I can see - and so did the student in the stories.

[Ms. Toad]

50. I think that's sloppy reporting.

The reports I've read all discuss the detention being imposed, and a comment by the Board president (at a later meeting attended by the studeht) that the students should apologize to the school resources offer. None of them describe a vote (which would be required to impose punishment via the board, rather than the school. The ones with the most detail describe an invitation to comment - which the School Board president took advantage of to spout off.

[Ms. Toad]

43. I don't believe he is suggesting the punishment should not apply

the point of all of the articles I read was the suggestion that he needed to apologize, which (to the extent it is part of the punishment) is a violation of his first amendment rights. The right to free speech also includes the right to be free from compelled speech.

I say that as someone who engaged in civil disobedience at his age. It was in connection with a requirement that - in addition to dissecting a "pickled" frog (which I did), each group of four students was requires to capture, pith, then dissect a live frog for the purpose of seeing its heart beat. I suggested numerous possibilities I was willing to participate in as a reasonable balance between animal cruelty and the wasteful destruction of life and any potential benefit I might gain as a 9th grade student (watching a video of the process, or watching the teacher (or another student) perform the exercise for the entire class (one frog, rather than 8).

I was prepared to (and did) accept the punishment (lowering my grade in the class a full letter grade - which the teacher threatened to call my bluff, then was forced to carry through with once she finally realized it was not a bluff. That punishment almost certainly kept me from being valedictorian - the top 4 students were hundredths of points apart at graduation.

But, had I been required to apologize to the teacher involved, I would have invoked my first amendment rights and there would almost certainly have been a court case.

(And, as an illustration of the value of disobeying the rules you believe are immoral (not stupid) and being willing to accept the consequences, that teacher spent more time thinking about whether the exercise is appropriate than she ever had previously - and has both thanked and apologized to me since then.)

[Squinch]

5. The principal and the board president both need to be replaced with human beings.

[bucolic_frolic]

6. Principals and Adminstration are the biggest waste of tax dollars

I'd be so happy if these overseers would be required to actually TEACH half-time or something like that

They have salaries that in some districts approach that of the POTUS

They travel to conferences, meet with textbook publishers, allocate resources, and moderate conflict

And they are out of touch with real people

[NJCher]

12. I work with one who

drives a new black Mercedes. Excuse me, but when you're on the public payroll, don't go rubbing our noses in how much you make.

The guy is a persistent obstacle in anything I want done. He told me a couple months ago he'd have something done for me in a month and it still hasn't happened.

[keepleft101]

17. I disagree

He should be able to drive what he wants and spend his money how he feels. Who cares what he drives and if he gets paid a good salary so what. Doesn’t mean he doesn’t deserve the salary. I’m sure his education he paid for wasn’t cheap.

Nothing wrong criticizing these people for their actions but criticizing them for how they spend their money ?

[NJCher]

22. errm

Try living in a town where the property taxes on an average single-family home are $17-18 grand. $1500 a month is what I have to pay.

Yeah, you're right. You can spend your money any way you want. It doesn't look good is what I'm saying.

A policeman who lives in this town told me he was going to have to move because he can't afford the property taxes.

So yeah, go ahead. Go out and spent $50 or 60g on a big black Mercedes when you're a school principal. Show us all you're a big shot. You represent the school system, and a car like that says the school system has a lot of money to throw around.

I would suggest that the type of people who think like that are thinking more of their own ego gratification than the message they're sending about the values they're teaching the school children. Personally, that's not a value I'd want to be showing my kid.

[LeftInTX]

28. Property taxes keep increasing where I live because the state

is giving huge tax breaks to businesses. They pay almost no property tax.

My husband is a school admin. He gets 1% raise per year. He works 24/7. He wants to retire, but he can't. The state is screwing the pension.

Of course admins earn more than teacher, but he doesn't have a summer vacation. He works spring break and parts of Christmas vacation. He gets home from work around 8 pm.

[sarah FAILIN]

35. Having an expensive brand car is nothing

He could have bought it used or it could have been with inherited money. I work in a factory and there are a whole lot of MB and BMW'S being driven by regular people which I know 2 that got really good deals. What the principal drives is not a slap in the face to you unless you take it that way.
I don't blame the cop you mentioned for moving. If taxes are that much regular people can't afford to live there and it seems like that is the bigger problem. I pay $1240/year on 2 houses comboned with one of those appraised at over a half million. Yes, I live in a red state, but I live in a 5k Sq ft house in a red state. If it is too expensive where you live now, why not move?

[NJCher]

41. well, I can see this is a hopeless cause

Did I say it was a slap in the face? No, that's you reading into it. I said that when people are so highly taxed that even their own police can't afford to live in the town, that it unwise to flaunt your high salary to the taxpayers in the form of an expensive car. Especially if you work in the school system, where we try so hard to promote values other than materialism.

What's so hard to understand about that? Are you not aware of how you come off to people and why that is a concern?

Also, you don't blame the cop for moving. How is that relevant? That's not even germane to my point. The point is that in a community you like to have the people who work in city government living there. They have more of a stake in their job.

I am absolutely dumbfounded that I have to point something like that out to you.

Oh and the Mercedes was not bought with inherited money. I work with this person. I know him. I know how he got it.

[sarah FAILIN]

47. Why do you think an educator shouldn't spend their money as they want to?

Should he buy an old junker car so his financial situation is less obvious and you can feel superior? I don't think what he drives is really the issue. I think the issue is the taxes. It is really not anyone's business how much anyone else makes or what they can afford to do in their lives. Flaunt away imo.

Why do you think the school systems are supposed to be promoting values besides materialism? This statement absolutely dumbfounded me. At our schools we promote learning with the goal of being successful as adults and being able to support yourself and your family. I have not once heard a student encouraged to be mediocre or told they shouldn't try to better themselves.

As for the cop, you were the one that pointed out he couldn't afford to live there and was moving. I don't know many well paid cops and I know a lot of cops. Many of them have 2nd jobs just to make ends meet. There are going to be a lot of communities that a cop can't afford to live in. There are a lot of communities school teachers can't afford to live in.. It may not be ideal, but not everyone can afford to live in the community they work in. Until recently my daughter drove over an hour each way. You can choose to drive and have a little better home with fewer bills or live close to work in a tiny apartment right next to a subdivision full of McMansions... I would take the drive every time. Sounds like the cop is a smart guy.

[NJCher]

55. this is my last post to you

because it is waste of time. You're really just not capable of understanding what I'm saying. Anyone who has even a first-year speech course (which covers perception management) would get it. You obviously don't even have that.

Look at how you jump to buying an old junker car as an alternative to a Mercedes. That says everything to me--that you don't know how make an argument. Laughable, if it weren't so sad.

[sarah FAILIN]

57. I think you have a problem understanding what you posted yourself

That person can drive any car they want to and it is none of your or my business. Why you think it is would be the real mystery.

[keepleft101]

58. NJCher

I think we are all capable of understanding what you are trying to say. We just disagree with it. I think its funny that you try and dumb us down because we disagree with your point.

When I was young I worked at an auto parts store driving a delivery van. The owner used to drive an old car to work because of perception. But everyone knew what he was doing and knew he had a new top of the line BMW at home. It was one of those gossip things.

I would actually say that is worse. Drive what the heck you want. Why hide it?

Back to your principal. Maybe as a kid he always wanted a certain type of car. Maybe he is single and it helps him attract women. Maybe he wants to fit in with a certain click of people. Whatever the reason, who cares? Its his life and his money to spend the way he wants. He shouldn't not drive what he likes and can afford because your perception. Why should he be punished because he is a principal to not drive a certain car? Truth be told if he was driving a new SUV or Ford pick up truck you probably wouldn't blink an eye, yet those vehicles cost in the 50,000 price range.

Who says he is driving it to flaunt it in your face? Does he brag to you? I have this car & you drive that? Are you assuming that is what he is doing? You said he rubs your nose in it. How exactly is he rubbing your nose in it? Just by owning it?

[LeftInTX]

24. I'm married to one

He pretty much works 24/7. No summers off. (10 days of vacation) No spring break, because he is chaperoning students while they travel to another state. Christmas vacation is also cut short. This past spring break, he chaperoned students to Disneyland and as soon as he got home, he went to a two day conference. (Friday and Saturday of spring break) Conferences are always during weekends and off time.

There is no time to teach! He's busy running a school. He's responsible for 2,000 students. He's responsible for their safety. I don't get where you say that they are out of touch with real people. Many of his former students are grown and they remember him fondly.

My husband has never met with a textbook publisher. By allocating resources, they are responsible for the master schedule. And yes, he moderates conflict. I don't know why you think that is easy.

Try running a school yourself before you complain.

[NJCher]

33. doesn't address my point

My point is about how it looks. I'm sorry you don't understand my point.

[GulfCoast66]

51. Please realize, everyone understands your point.

They disagree with the crux of your point.

[NJCher]

54. and you were elected by whom?

I daresay you can't even articulate the argument, let alone understand it.

[sarah FAILIN]

37. Bless you!

I know it is tough. Late nights at ball games and always early morning bus duty.

You said the magic words though, his students remember him fondly. That must be the best feeling to know that you have impacted the lives of children in a positive way.


Thank you!

[bucolic_frolic]

38. I'll complain anytime I want to

about anything I choose to voice my opinion. If all comments are limited to our occupations the world is going to be a drab, boring, stupid place.

Nice that he has a good job. Responsibilities go with the territory.

My point being that schools could be run with adminstration-lite because of the unnecessary duties.
What does it really take to put competent teachers in the classroom every day? 3 adminstrators, a staff,
a full time principal in every school? Meetings 7 days a week? Junkets, conferences out of town?
This is overhead bloat. Many or most corporations shrunk their white collar ranks in the 1990s and 2000's by pushing duties onto employees who did the work every day. This lessened overhead and expenses and increased profits. No such movement at the administrative levels of public schools. They just increase taxes to pay for it all.

At old-time private schools, not charters, many a headmaster teaches. And runs a right ship. It's just like colleges. Teaching is increasingly an itinerant, part-time, no-tenured position. The headline faculty you see at the front of the 600 student lecture hall. The administration is well taken care of for life. Tenured faculty are a dying breed.

[GulfCoast66]

52. Now there is a real Democratic idea...

Because the private sector realized they could abuse their management by putting more work on them with no increase in compensation while eliminating many good paying jobs, then let’s do the same for all these high paid government workers so we can be equally abused.

Disgusting thing to read on DU.

[3Hotdogs]

8. Board President, David French, said he should apologize to the resource officer.

David French should immediately go home and take a cold enema.

[FakeNoose]

10. Well he has to run for re-election

... so, same thing!

[True Blue American]

14. French left Dayton

The system was failing.

[djacq]

9. Parents need to back these kids 100 percent

[beachbum bob]

11. people in Ohio can change school board members come election time

[sinkingfeeling]

15. Butler County was invaded by conservative thought about 50 years ago.

My ex-in law's family was from there. Of course, all of Ohio took a turn toward the right since I left in the 70's.

[LuckyCharms]

16. The nerve of this kid. He should have apologized for getting shot.

[Phoenix61]

31. At least for bleeding all over the floor

and making a mess someone else would have to clean up.

[lunasun]

18. School admin must be big time gun humpers to want an apology to thier solution

of a good guy with a gun but where was the officer when he was shot?
Not blaming the officer just the ridiculous theory that gun control is not part of the stance against shootings

[Bettie]

19. It that were my child

both my husband and I would be in his face demanding an apology to all of the kids who walked out and all of the kids who wanted to, but were afraid to break that stupid rule.

Oh, this makes me so angry.

[Oppaloopa]

32. Me too

[SunSeeker]

20. Unfuckingbelievable. The school should apologize to those 42 students!

[Initech]

21. We live in a nation of psychopaths.

[Hortensis]

23. Lol. Just seems like it. 300M people notice psychopaths.

Big difference. Our 330 million are also only 5% of the world's population. America has no corner on psychopathy.

[JohnnyRingo]

25. This will go on his "permanent record".

I recall that was the ultimate stupid threat when I was a kid in school. As if.

[malthaussen]

27. I'd love to have a gander at my "permanent record."

It would be lengthy.

-- Mal

[JohnnyRingo]

34. If indeed they existed.

Perhaps now in the digital age data retention is more likely, but to what end?

I remember one classmate with such a notorious "permanent record" he was recruited by the CIA after graduation in 1971 to destabilize Central American regimes. In that case, he probably requested it for his resume'.

[lagomorph777]

26. And yet he persisted?

[Proud liberal 80]

29. I am from this county

Butler County, Ohio one of the most racists, ignorant, intolerant, hateful, right wing, etc places in America. John Boehner represented this county.

[lpbk2713]

42. If they can intimidate someone into apologizing ...

then it will be apparent it was their fault. That should
put the PTB in the clear. What a bunch of fascists.

[gratuitous]

45. Sometimes you pay a price for doing the right thing in a screwed up world

It's small consolation for young Cooper, but he will be vindicated for doing the right thing. David French, on the other hand, will not enjoy history's verdict.

[Hassler]

53. The kid should drop out and home school. He already knows more than the admin.

[blake2012]

56. Fuck those fun humping Republican clowns