Russian Troll Farm Goes After Mueller's Files

[babylonsister]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/russian-troll-farm-goes-after-muellers-files?ref=home

Russian Troll Farm Goes After Mueller’s Files
Lawyers for Concord Management and Consulting are demanding a wealth of information, including the identities of informants and details of any electronic surveillance.
Kevin Poulsen
05.04.18 7:25 PM ET


Lawyers for the company accused of funding Russia’s election interference trolls are demanding that special counsel Robert Mueller turn over reams of information, including the identities of informants, details of any electronic surveillance, and a list of “each and every instance” since 1945 in which the U.S. “engaged in operations to interfere with elections and political processes in any foreign country.”

The ambitious demand for legal discovery surfaced Friday in Mueller’s criminal case against 13 individuals and three Russian companies linked to the Internet Research Agency, the St. Petersburg troll farm that used fake accounts to organize demonstrations on U.S. soil and flood American social media with alt-right memes during the 2016 election. One of those defendants is Concord Management and Consulting, a Russian firm run by Yevgeny Prigozhin, a close Kremlin ally known as “Putin’s Chef,” who is also named individually as a defendant in the case.

snip//

The lawyers also want Mueller to define a number of terms used in the indictment, including “improper foreign influence,” “significant funds,” and “disparaging Hillary Clinton.” In addition, the defense is demanding information on every U.S.-run election-interference operation since World War II, perhaps telegraphing a pot-kettle defense to the eight-count indictment.

“This disclosure should include any and all information regarding the use of computer infrastructure inside and outside of the United States, false foreign identities, goals to sow discord in a foreign political system, assistance to a foreign elected official or candidate, attacks on a foreign elected official or candidate, assassination or conspiracy to assassinate a foreign elected official or candidate, buying political advertisements, posing as foreign persons and/or failure to honestly identify to foreign voters the involvement of any officer, employee or agent of the United States Government,” reads a letter sent to Mueller’s office last month by Reed Smith partner Eric Dubelier.

Sensitive discovery usually comes with a court order forbidding the defendants and their lawyers from using the material for anything except trial preparation. It’s unclear how that might apply in a case where the defendant is viewed as an unofficial arm of the Kremlin.

[tanyev]

1. Good luck with that. I'm pretty sure Robert Mueller eats trolls for breakfast.

Every. Fucking. Morning.

[poli3]

2. This is still serious though

This is a Russian corporation with representation by a big US law firm. They may not get all the documents their asking for such as cases of the US interfering in Foreign elections, but legally, they're entitled to discovery for their specific case.

America has laws, it's not Russia.

[Calista241]

3. Mueller charged those people and companies with a crime.

They’re entitled to discovery.

[tanyev]

4. Yes indeed they are.

But it seems to me that 'a list of “each and every instance” since 1945 in which the U.S. “engaged in operations to interfere with elections and political processes in any foreign country' is ridiculous and irrelevant. I don't think "You did it too, sometimes" is recognized as a legitimate criminal defense.

[emulatorloo]

5. Classic Russian propaganda technique - Whataboutism

Words We're Watching: What About "Whataboutism?"
https://upload.democraticunderground.com/100210042611

What About "Whataboutism?"
If everyone is guilty of something, is no one guilty of anything?

https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/whataboutism-origin-meaning

Some of the terms we use to describe political rhetoric are as old as politics itself (see ad hominem attacks, or such devices as synecdoche, metonymy, or zeugma). Others are more recent additions, driven by the evolution of the news cycle (like fake news and dog whistles).

But hey, aren’t we ignoring a bigger subject here? How can we talk about rhetorical devices and not mention whataboutism?

Essentially a reversal of accusation, arguing that an opponent is guilty of an offense just as egregious or worse

Whataboutism gives a clue to its meaning in its name. It is not merely the changing of a subject ("What about the economy?" ) to deflect away from an earlier subject as a political strategy; it’s essentially a reversal of accusation, arguing that an opponent is guilty of an offense just as egregious or worse than what the original party was accused of doing, however unconnected the offenses may be.

<snip>

The association of whataboutism with the Soviet Union began during the Cold War. As the regimes of Josef Stalin and his successors were criticized by the West for human rights atrocities, the Soviet propaganda machine would be ready with a comeback alleging atrocities of equal reprehensibility for which the West was guilty.

The weaknesses of whataboutism—which dictates that no one must get away with an attack on the Kremlin's abuses without tossing a few bricks at South Africa, no one must indict the Cuban police State without castigating President Park, no one must mention Irak, Libya or the PLO without having a bash at Israel, &c. – have been canvassed in this column before.
—Michael Bernard, The Age (Melbourne, Victoria, Australia), 17 Jun. 1978


<snip>

Before the 2016 presidential election, more instances of whataboutism applied to criticism among regimes than between individual politicians:

<snip>

Since the Cold War, Moscow has engaged in a political points-scoring exercise known as "whataboutism" used to shut down criticism of Russia's own rights record by pointing out abuses elsewhere. All criticism of Russia is invalid, the idea goes, because problems exist in other countries too.
—Max Seddon, Buzzfeed, 25 Nov. 2014


<snip>

The term is seeing a bit of a renaissance in our current political climate. Philip Bump writes in The Washington Post that President Donald Trump has utilized whataboutism frequently as a way of deflecting criticism for his actions, such as his pardon of former Arizona sheriff Joe Arpaio.

<snip>

Time will tell if whataboutism can persuade its way into the language, but its recent upswing in usage suggests it may have staying power. At least until someone changes the subject.

——-
Much more at link.

[babylonsister]

6. Thanks for this.

"If everyone is guilty of something, is no one guilty of anything?" Sounds irrational.


And I'm about to go educate myself as I have never heard of synecdoche, metonymy, or zeugma before!

[emulatorloo]

7. ...

[Calista241]

10. I think it lays out one of their possible defences.

“You guys do that shit all the time. Why are you prosecuting us for something you guys do with regularity.”

[DBoon]

8. "identities of informants"?

So we can see a few more mysterious fatal falls from upper story hotel windows?

[Wounded Bear]

9. Yeah, imagine if Repubs in Congress get their hands on it...