Would it have been OK for LGBT posters to have called their opponents here

[dsc]

and elsewhere breeders? I don't think so. I think if at the height of any contraversy about LGBT issues we had done this we would have been bounced (in point of fact many got purged anyway but that is another story for another day). I think if the only argument you have is to call others names, that speaks of a weakness in your arguments. I fail to see why those whose arguments are strong are insisting on portraying them as weak. I can point out why it is wrong to defend calling LGBT child molesters without calling my opponents breeders. I can equally call out people who defend racism without resorting to childish name calling. I think we all can.

[Cary]

1. We do seem to lack discipline

We do seem to go out of our way to find fault and wedge ourselves.

[marble falls]

2. Seriously, breeder is a bad thing to call someone, on the level of "child molester"?

[Cary]

3. The point is still well-taken

Is it not?

[marble falls]

5. No its not. Specifically because one of the justifications used to attack gay men and women....

was specifically because they were having sex without pro-creation. Making the argument that one shouldn't use "breeder" because of the use of "child molester" is a false equivalency and trivializes the slander that was part and parcel to the bad treatment that gay men and women have suffered historically all across the planet.

Call me a breeder - I had children on purpose.

[Nitram]

6. I disagree, marble. The term is used for animals and slaves, not people.

It implies your only function in life is to mate and have children. Says nothing about caring for children. it is a pejorative and hurtful term.

[Cary]

9. It's certainly meant to be pejorative and hurtful

I understand why an oppressed group would emotionally want to knock down their oppressor but the logic of doing so escapes me.

[marble falls]

15. I disagree. When LBGT started using this term it was not meant to demean parenting, after all....

one of the first 'rights' gays fought hard for and won was the right to parent. It was meant as a flip way to identify a basic difference between gay and straight. Anything else is way for straights to falsely make all LGBT seem as bigoted as some straights are.

There is no way in hell that all gay people think all straight people are animals who drop and forget their young - though with all the child abuse going on one might think otherwise.

[Nitram]

16. No one thinks "all gay people think all straight people are animals who drop and forget their young"

Just those who use the term "breeders." it is a disrespectful term, and is meant to be.

[marble falls]

17. It had to with christian rightists who claimed the reason their god hated gays was because gay sex..

wasn't procreative. That your choices are procreative or abstinent.

If you really want to be offended by the term 'breeder' go for it.

Personally, for me, that's a waste of time particularly since the crowd in Washington and Austin give plenty of real and substantive things to raise my personal load of dunder with.

Don't get your your feelings hurt, lets us get out the vote.

[Cary]

4. There is another side

The aggressor needs to be knocked down a peg or two?

I understand the emotion of that but I question the logic.

[Nitram]

7. Minorities need allies to be successful. Insulting everybody who is not a

member of your own minority is not an adaptive strategy.

[Cary]

10. True but it's more illogical than that

Diminishing me doesn't augment anyone other than those whom we jointly oppose.

[Tipperary]

8. We gay folks breed too.

Just sayin’.

[Cary]

12. Indeed. We are all of the same species

[mcar]

11. I've seen that term used here many times

Don't know if those posting it were LGBT, though.

[mythology]

13. Unfortunately the available evidence suggests we can't

Whether it's Rethuglicans or Republicans using Democrat instead of Democratic, or silly little terms like wypipo.

It's a way to separate the other, to say that they are lesser and dismiss them.

But you are right that it is childish name calling and that it demonstrates the weakness in their ability to defend their position.

[Demsrule86]

14. Breeder is an insulting term, but some perspective here...it is not even close to calling someone a

child molester.

[marble falls]

19. I am a breeder and I don't feel a bit insulted by the term. What insults me is the 'mandate' that...

if I really am a breeder that must I drop my children and run.

People who identify as straight are as good of parents as those who identify as homosexual/bi/trans/inters.

Breeders and gays make good parents by and large.

[Demsrule86]

30. I agree

[WhiskeyGrinder]

18. When it comes to oppressed populations, I don't really have much of a problem with what they call

their oppressors.

[marble falls]

20. That, too!

[Behind the Aegis]

21. That happened here.

A former DU'er upset with the heterosexism and homophobia, and a few other concerns, went after Skinner, calling him a "breeder" and his children "crotchfruit". The terms were not always directed at him specificially, but people here went batshit, found it offensive, and many LGBT people came to Skinner's (and others' defense) by stating we don't make ourselves better by denigrating others, no matter what they have done to us. The member was banned.

[gollygee]

23. It wouldn't bother me, particularly if it were part of a humor column.

A humor column pointing out homophobia and specifically calling out people who claim to be allies but really aren't? Do you think there would be so many people freaking out about that?

[NCTraveler]

24. If they are here, and your OPPONENTS, then hell yes. nt

[NCTraveler]

25. This really says a lot.

Asking the LGBT folks at DU to treat their opponents like snowflakes.

You have gone too far with your opposition to other arguments. One cannot form a reasoned thought when it has gotten to this point.

I reserve the right to call opponents of our LGBT friends on DU any damn thing I want.

[NurseJackie]

33. Excellent reply. Well-reasonsed.

[wonkwest]

34. Or maybe just treat people like people?

I’m gay. I don’t want anyone to feel like they can be an asshole on my behalf.

If people really really need to feel justified in being a jerk, by all means. Go nuts. But you’re not doing me a favor. Don’t pretend like you are. I didn’t approve of shitty behavior in my name.

[NCTraveler]

35. "Or maybe just treat people like people?"

Empty sloganeering with no meaning.

"I don’t want anyone to feel like they can be an asshole on my behalf."

I would never be an asshole on your behalf. I never said I would nor did I insinuate it.

"But you’re not doing me a favor."

Not everything is about you. Sorry to be rude. Each of your comments, for the most part, are extrapolations about self.

"I didn’t approve of shitty behavior in my name."

Good. Fuck bigots and I didn't request your approval.

[DFW]

26. LGBT have opponents here?

How does an LGBT have an opponent, anyway? Other than in a jousting match, I mean?

Isn't that like the Matterhorn having an opponent? It just IS. Why should anyone oppose that? HOW does anyone oppose that?

[Behind the Aegis]

27. Yes we do.

"Opponents" are those who don't think our rights are as important as others; that "gay jokes" are OK when directed at enemies of the left; that fighting for our equality needs to be on their terms and timetables; that our feelings about homophobia and heterosexism need to be "splained to us. I could go on and on. So, yes, there are those who are "opponents" to the LGBT.

[DFW]

28. I guess I must subconciously just pass over posts like that.

Anything THAT boorish, I wouldn't spend the time reading.

Sorry to hear it, all the same!

[Behind the Aegis]

37. As I was saying...

Putin is a self loathing closet case. It is supposed to be "troll bait" but the bait" is homophobia, making it gay-baiting. Some think it is justifiable to "anger" right-wingers (or Russian bots in this case) by claiming their heroes are secretly gay...that is homophobic, especially when the person in question isn't!

[DFW]

38. "Get a life" can't be enforced in a court of law

So the rest of us have to live with those that feel a need to jump on others for whatever reason. Here in Europe, it just isn't that much of a big deal. I knew gay friends when I lived in Spain as a teenager, and that was 1968-1969. By now, I just never even bother to think of it as some huge dividing factor. Too used to it, I guess. My sister-in-law is Japanese. I'm not. That kind of "difference." A big "so what?" and no time to hear a response.

[Behind the Aegis]

39. While I wasn't searching for prosecution...

...I also don't like when those who are supposed to be on my side, persecute me. Using gay men as an impetus for attack is homophobia. I simply wanted you to see the most recent incarnation which is why many GLBT people don't fell all that welcomed here.

[Ms. Toad]

40. There's an entire thread right now

using gay as an insult - defending it, and doubling down on the defense.

[kcr]

29. Yep. I have no problem with it.

I'm not wasting my time and mental energy on attacking those who are punching up, or worrying about the thin-skinned members of the majority who can't take it. If they're bothered by it, they probably deserve it.

[demmiblue]

31. As an aside, thank goodness for breeders...

their children will be taking care of me someday. I am thankful in advance.

(BTW, I do get your point)

[wonkwest]

32. You'd think "Don't be a jerk" would be basic

And yet here we are, defending racism because it’s targeted appropriately.

You know the people defending bigotry would lose their damn minds if LGBTers spoke in this way towards straight people.

The salt would be real.

Bigotry is never ok. That grown-ass liberal adults still need that explained to them is just boggling to me.

[LostOne4Ever]

36. K&R nt