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(81,220 posts)What does it say about us as a nation, when we elevate someone like that bastard to the highest office in the land?
kairos12
(12,852 posts)DemocracyMouse
(2,275 posts)"This can't be real" I thought. "This can't be the country I was born into." Then he was elected again.
KY_EnviroGuy
(14,490 posts).......
calimary
(81,220 posts)Last edited Tue May 8, 2018, 10:48 PM - Edit history (1)
I was around then, and the more I learned, the more worried I became. But that seems to have been in very tiny increments. NOTHING like what I'm seeing in this era. You know those sayings about "our better angels" - "following our better angels," "calling on our better angels," etc.? Seems like trump has validated all our worse "angels". He's made it okay, normalized, mainstream, excusable, and acceptable to be rude, nasty, sneaky, deceitful, racist, selfish, misogynist, mean-spirited, petty, hypocritical, loutish, resentful, and just generally shitty.
All those things you kept to yourself because uttering them in front of people it made you look like an ass? All those things the nuns said you must never say out loud? All those things your mom/dad/favorite auntie/teacher/someone you looked up to - said were mean and unnecessary, and/or would hurt someone's feelings. Or "we don't talk like that" or "that's not nice" or "hey! Be POLITE!" or "you want I should wash your mouth out with soap?" Those things you don't dare say in polite company. No longer. Hell, just go ahead and say anything you want. Use any language you want. Go ahead and "tell it like it is," even if it offers you cover and justification for embracing Naziism and other vile stuff.
It was pretty doggone rotten during Reagan and Nixon, alright. And cheney and rove made it rather nauseating awhile back, too. But I don't remember it EVER being this bad. Or this shameful. THIS, now, is an epic catastrophic disgrace! Lower than low. Mariana Trench low. trump not only kills everything he touches - as GOP consultant Rick Wilson puts it, trump brings out the absolute worst in everybody.
KY_EnviroGuy
(14,490 posts)I think many of us have been living in serious denial. The first really rotten stuff out of Republicans I can recall is Spiro Agnew spreading hatred around the South in the late 60s during my late college years (I was a bit too young to pay much attention to Goldwater). We all passed it off at the time as a fringe thing, but then the next thing we knew, large portions of the South went red.
These truly are sneaky, dishonest and psychopathic people that lie to and deceive the most vulnerable of our populace - just to get votes to achieve power and then stab those folks in the back. Their co-opting of religious groups was the final corrupt act for me and at that time, I felt they probably could never achieve moral reconciliation. I now suspect the Republican party will have to totally collapse of its own weight and hubris to survive - and probably should just start from scratch. The only thing keeping it glued together now is support of plutocrats and bands of far-right tear-it-all-down radicals.
Perhaps we could just re-label the Republican Party a commercial enterprise with a very bad track record.
BTW, I had my mouth washed out a few times as a kid and as I recall (by today's standards) for the most innocent language. I was raised by fairly strict Depression-era Southern Baptists - all of whom are tossing around in their graves over this prosperity gospel bullshit. They really were great folks and I still appreciate them every day.
..........
PS: I follow Rick Wilson too, but sometimes tire from all the snark. He does seem very sharp and resourceful.
misanthrope
(7,411 posts)about our willing abdication of the capacity for self-governance and our favor for anti-intellectualism.
mountain grammy
(26,619 posts)moondust
(19,972 posts)At the highest levels of government and business.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)Karma that we now own!!!!
misanthrope
(7,411 posts)included chemical and bacteriological warfare. Hernando de Soto and his fellow conquistadors were savage, bloodthirsty and inhumane but they have parks and forests named after them. Few American citizens lamented what happened with the Trail of Tears and the architects of that misery were hailed as heroes. One was elected as the seventh POTUS and still adorns the nation's currency in homage.
African-Americans have been enslaved, murdered and terrorized. We practiced a form of apartheid nearly until the nation's 200th anniversary. 206 years after African-American Boston Massacre victim Crispus Attucks became canonized as the first to die in the lead to American independence, white Bostonians were captured trying impale a black businessman on an broken flag pole bearing the American flag.
The cause of unrest? School integration.
America's Gilded Age was marked by vast gulfs of income disparity. Bigotry and sexism were de rigeur.
In the first third of the 20th century, we sent American servicemen to die throughout Latin America to preserve petty commercial interests.
We watched a 1925 march of the Ku Klux Klan through our nation's capital. An estimated 25,000 400,000 Klansmen marched in white robes and hoods but faces exposed, down Pennsylvania Avenue.
American business barons conspired to depose the duly elected POTUS because he sided with impoverished citizens in the midst of the Great Depression. Were it not for one USMC general's divulgence of their schemes, they could have succeeded.
We stripped American citizens of their estates and imprisoned them because their ancestors originated in a land that later took up arms against the United States. We irradiated servicemen and prisoners at whim. We gave placebo treatments to diseased African-Americans all just to study the effects. We fed radioactive material to mentally disabled children. We administered radioactive iron to impoverished pregnant women.
We turned our heads to the cultivation of ghettos throughout the nation.
Our history of illegal wars, assassinations, imprisonments and torture has pockmarked the last 60 years of world history.
So where was this moral perch from which we fell?
KY_EnviroGuy
(14,490 posts)Quite a hall of shame we've built....and we're still building. Trump will add an entire new wing.
......
moondust
(19,972 posts)A few rays of light along the way but much too much darkness.
Good reminder. Don't give up.
carpediem
(726 posts)SWBTATTReg
(22,112 posts)idiotic ramblings of these thugs when Nov 2018 rolls around and get them out of office or at least start. All of them are paranoid to the extreme and I wouldn't be surprised if Sessions does something even more reprehensible before too long. Pruitt has gone power hungry, and I'm surprised that RUMP has allowed this troll as much leeway as he's given him. I think eventually this will come back to bite them in spades.
Election laws? What election laws? Sarcasm...
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)That's why we are bad people.
RussBLib
(9,006 posts)And we have no good Dem leaders to fight back. If our elected Dems are just cowering, why should we fight?
thucythucy
(8,045 posts)are both fighting back.
I wouldn't say they're "cowering."
There are lots of good Democrats--in and out of office--doing what they can to fight back.
brush
(53,765 posts)Senate and House control both houses of Congress and all the committee chairpersonships.
That right now is the repug party so calling the Dems cowering is not accurate.
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)Was Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III, serial perjurer, holding forth about people who come to this country need to obey our laws. Not sure how a just God avoided sending a lightning bolt down on the podium at that moment, but the deity's ways are mysterious, indeed.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,174 posts)Not saying what will follow here will necessarily be as horrific as those past travesties, but it certainly follows along the same line of thought.
I remember when I first heard about this plan in early 2017 it sent chills up my spine, and actually inspired me to read Hannah Arendt's The Banality of Evil.
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,996 posts)Glaisne
(515 posts)they're fleeing from is largely due to the impacts from our foreign policy. Both covert and overt. Something sadly lacking in the immigration debate. Or what passes for debate.
Uncle Joe
(58,349 posts)Thanks for the thread, bigtree.
The New Nazis!
I can no longer recite the pledge of allegiance due to moral misgivings!
Stainless
(718 posts)I am no longer a proud American. I am appalled, angry and disgusted by what has happened to our country.
Mountain Mule
(1,002 posts)I am ashamed to be an American these days.
BigmanPigman
(51,584 posts)and I actually went out and bought a flag to wear as a cape during the anti-moron protest rallies. I got sick of seeing the alt-right and cult/base idiots acting like they are the true Americans since they all wrap themselves in flags at all the protests.
I am embarrassed for my country!
N_E_1 for Tennis
(9,721 posts)change must come.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)Bipartisan. Non controversial. Supported by the faith community.
This is draconian.
ooky
(8,922 posts)are voting for this shit. These hypocrites are making a joke out of their "faith" and out of themselves. Every "real" American who heard Sessions' fascist words coming off his fascist lips should want to vomit. I sure did. Separating families? Really? Where in their faith is separating families covered?
Mr.Bill
(24,282 posts)It's not "we" it's "they".
I'm not part of this and neither are the other people on this forum.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)anxiety, etc. He launched his campaign demonizing immigrants. That's they love him. Every time they yelled MAGA it meant Make America White Again.
This is what they wanted.
LittleGirl
(8,282 posts)that vote was not real. it was rigged, it was stolen, it was hacked.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)But I think the fraud is reflected in our numbers, not theirs. I'm sure Hillary won by a bigger margin than she did, and many who wanted to vote fell victim of voter suppression.
But I also think his numbers are real. No one was hacking or suppressing his voters. The sad reality is that those people have the same prejudices as trump. It wasn't about being an idiot. It was about hatred and bigotry.
LittleGirl
(8,282 posts)Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)They have identified and vilified an "enemy", in this case immigrants, and let's not pretend here, the focus is ONLY on Latino, African, and Middle Eastern immigrants. Now they legislate and executive order ways of limiting them.
This is not at all unlike the very same types of steps the Nazi's used leading up to WWII, and it is so typically fascist in nature.
Look how the anti-jewish Nazi legislation formulated. There's simply too many parallels to ignore, especially when 45 constantantly and continuously displays all 14 characteristics of a fascist leader.
https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005681
KPN
(15,642 posts)country indeed.
MyOwnPeace
(16,925 posts)90-percent
(6,829 posts)n/t
Ferrets are Cool
(21,106 posts)DFW
(54,355 posts)If we accept it without a massive struggle to turn things around, THEN we're a bad people.
Is anyone here advocating that we throw in the towel?
I didn't think so. There is hope.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)manipulated that way. And feeling so relieved that it could never happen here.
And now I'm witnessing this.
It's just a question of accusing "the other" of every ill in the nation. Apparently, that's a magic formula
CrispyQ
(36,457 posts)snip...
Another foreign policy myth has to do with American motivations for its many interventions.
I like to ask the question: What does U.S. foreign policy have in common with Mae West, the Hollywood sexpot of the 1940s? The story is told of a visitor to her mansion, who looked around and said: "My goodness, what a beautiful home you have." And Mae West replied: "Goodness has nothing to do with it." And that's one of the important points I try to make about U.S. foreign policy-goodness has nothing to do with it.
It's one of the main barriers to reaching millions of Americans, who have a deeply held belief that no matter what the U.S. does abroad, no matter what horror may result, no matter how bad it may look, the government of the United States means well. American leaders may make mistakes, they may blunder, they may lie, they may even on the odd occasion cause more harm than good, but they do mean well. Their intentions are always honorable, if not divinely inspired. Of that most Americans are certain. They genuinely wonder why the rest of the world can't see how benevolent and self-sacrificing America has been. Even many people who take part in the antiwar movement have a hard time shaking off some of this mindset; they march to spur America-the America they love and worship and admire-back onto its normal path of goodness.
Blum should be required reading. Here's his page on Third World Traveler:
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/William_Blum.html
This article (needs updating) should be required high school reading: http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/US_Interventions_WBlumZ.html
misanthrope
(7,411 posts)"We judge others by their actions and ourselves by our intent when the opposite should be the case."
LudwigPastorius
(9,137 posts)eShirl
(18,490 posts)sinkingfeeling
(51,445 posts)refugees from a 'shithole country' like Jordan!
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)I mean, they're there already. Will Mexico not allow it? I haven't seen that option mentioned in the news or on here. Esp since they surely have been told what the environment here is toward immigration right now. I don't see the U S allowing it. Is Mexico not an option?
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)America's soul. Please, let's stay on topic.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)No one in either party is mentioning that. So maybe there's a reason.
It's no different than asking what the conditions are that they fled. It's a factual question. I mean, they're in a Democratic country right now, but are asking for asylum in another country. I get that the U S is a better country for working people, but for asylum, I haven't read why they didn't seek asylum in Mexico. Maybe they did, maybe Mexico took a lot of them, and these guys just prefer the U.S. I don't know. It's a legitimate question.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)here is how can America separate children from their mothers. What is happening to America's soul.
You are completely off-topic with your replies. Perhaps it would be better to start a different thread addressing your concerns.
Solly Mack
(90,762 posts)Sadly.
Tragically.
Disgustingly.
Sessions is a sick minded little fuck. I thought everyone understood that about him.
MarcA
(2,195 posts)KY_EnviroGuy
(14,490 posts)This is but a symptom of the rot, as we allow our tax dollars to implement suffering around the globe. The indiscriminate bombing of innocents in too many places to name here (Yemen, Syria, etc.), allowing children to starve in numerous areas, no control of our corporations in their overseas operations (e.g, oil and mineral extractions), weak diplomatic interest in the movement of refugees in many troubled areas...the list goes on and on.
We've somehow built a society that can conveniently stay blind to these things, as we stay warm and safe in our homes and stay occupied with trivialities on social media and TV.
I sometimes wonder how bad the ultimate paybacks will be, after climate change and new wars rearrange all the deck chairs.
........... ........
I'm beyond outrage and well into the territory of grief.
Votes have consequences. Not voting has consequences. Elections have consequences. Stolen and sabotaged elections have consequences.
sandensea
(21,624 posts)Just as there's a lot of duality in everyone as individuals, it's the same with nations. No exceptions there.
misanthrope
(7,411 posts)then their understanding of history is woefully inadequate.
roamer65
(36,745 posts)Sorry folks, but the Mexican-American War was a bullshit land grab war.