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Miles Archer

(18,837 posts)
Fri May 11, 2018, 07:56 AM May 2018

Interesting email from my brother-in-law (and Trump fan) on the subject of "lying"

I'm not going to post the email, but he laid out an interesting dynamic.

I don't "lie or fib." It's true. It's not because I'm a saint, I just somehow ended up allergic to both. Can't do it, so I don't.

My sister (the one married to him) "fibs on occasion."

HE lies all the time, more often than he tells the truth.

They are both on the Trump Train. She's on it 100%. He sees a lot of the lies but doesn't care.

My other sister lies her ass off. She's like Burger King, "home of the Whopper." But she also loathes Trump. She also has forged her own alternate reality. She lives on a planet not populated by people like you or I, so the equation of "lies are OK in my life, so why judge Trump for lying" just doesn't fit in her case.

I was always "aware" of Trump before he ran for president. I was never a fan. I thought he was an oaf, a loudmouth, a pig, a cartoon of a human being. I never watched an episode of "The Apprentice." The whole "You're FIRED" thing, while it may make the nether regions of his supporters get all tingly, made me throw up. He was always a Brett Michaels to me, swaying on whatever stage would have him to his shitty music and leering into the camera.

I am not turned off by Trump because he lies. I'm turned off by Trump because he's Trump. It's a package deal. Lying is a part of it. If he told the truth 100% of the time and still possessed all of his other qualities, I'd still feel the same way. But it answers the question of "How can he lie non-stop and still have supporters?" One answer to that, among many, is that they lie too and it's no big deal. They normalize it, they convince themselves that it just shows him to be a "real" human being. That's insanity to me.

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Ohiogal

(31,929 posts)
1. I don't get all this acceptance of lying, either
Fri May 11, 2018, 08:04 AM
May 2018

ESPECIALLY from the President of the United States!

And, I agree with your perception of Trump. I never watched his show, either, and I had the same opinion of him all along. When he came down the stairs that fated day, I thought for sure he'd be nothing but a clown show, a distraction, something to laugh at. Little did I realize .....

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
6. The closest I can come is that it's a known quanitity
Fri May 11, 2018, 08:59 AM
May 2018

To me that doesn't make a lot of sense - but to many Americans the fact that he lies is not really more important than the fact that he is racist - they knew that about him and so they accept it.

I guess you do see the same dynamic in interpersonal relationships - going back to racism - many have a friend who occasionally lies; but you put up with it because you know what other traits that person has. Yeah you wouldn't leave cash laying around him, but if you needed a jump at 2 in the morning he'd be there.

In the case of Trump this is all imaginary - but it's easy enough to imagine his supporter saying "Yeah - maybe he stretches the truth a bit, but he's going to vote for the stuff I think is important so I'm ok with it." That might change the more rephensible he seems to be (particularly with this stuff with Russia and Cohen) - but then again they might just live in a bubble of denial.

Bryant

rock

(13,218 posts)
2. Check out Linguistics: Maxims of Implicature
Fri May 11, 2018, 08:36 AM
May 2018

Lying to someone is an insult to them. By this rule, trump is one of the rudest people alive.

KY_EnviroGuy

(14,488 posts)
5. tRump wouldn't be president if he didn't lie.
Fri May 11, 2018, 08:47 AM
May 2018

The Guardian UK news site cataloged his lies during the election and it was unbelievable. Our media treated it like entertainment. Now, we're paying the price.

I do agree with you about him being repulsive even without the lies. For me, his arrogance, narcissism, elitism, ignorance and mental afflictions are enough to have him put away somewhere for life, and those characteristics totally go against my grain. His type is dangerous to human existence.

....... .........

pazzyanne

(6,544 posts)
7. K & R
Fri May 11, 2018, 09:16 AM
May 2018

Couldn't agree more with every word you wrote. This was my view of DJT as well. My Dad love the Apprentice and my Mom would leave the house while it was on. I personally never saw it either because of my impression of the man.

Buns_of_Fire

(17,158 posts)
9. Envy, Gluttony, Greed, Lust, Pride, Sloth, and Wrath. (The deadly seven.)
Fri May 11, 2018, 09:21 AM
May 2018

Add in the stupidity, lack of taste, the big mouth, rudeness, crudeness, the fact that his mother dresses him funny, and the MAMMOTH ASS (with panty lines) -- and they can spot him the lies if they want -- he's STILL a pig.

America's own Perfect Storm of repulsiveness.

kentuck

(111,056 posts)
10. Like you, I never watched an episode of Apprentice either.
Fri May 11, 2018, 09:22 AM
May 2018

Perhaps I should have?

Why should anyone want to watch some rich asshole tell someone,"You're fired!", when they could go to work that very day and hear those same very words from their boss?

What kind of sick fuck would want to watch a shit show like that??

Miles Archer

(18,837 posts)
13. Well, that and the fact that he featured a lot of celebrities on the down side of their career.
Fri May 11, 2018, 09:53 AM
May 2018

Buddy Guy had a line in one of his songs ( "When I Left Home" ) that had the same kind of impact on me that Emerson did in my college years:

"You may not be the best in town...Just be the best, baby, until the best comes around..."



Regardless of my "status" in life, regardless of what positions I've held, regardless of my wealth (or lack of it), I have consistently lacked the ability to subjugate myself to any man or woman "above" me, to submit myself to their control or random acts of mental cruelty. That resulted in my getting squeezed out of a number of jobs, which brings into play the old axiom "If I had it all to do over again, I would."

Washed-up "celebrities" groveling at the feet of Trump, seeking his favor and approval. Sort of sounds like his administration...don't it?

DownriverDem

(6,226 posts)
17. We all know
Fri May 11, 2018, 10:47 AM
May 2018

most were repubs. repubs love to hate on others.
When trump welcomed the prisoners released from N Korea, I couldn't help but wonder if he was disappointed that they weren't white Americans. Sorry, that is what I thought.

mikeysnot

(4,756 posts)
11. Let's review shall we...
Fri May 11, 2018, 09:31 AM
May 2018

Bill Clinton was a LIAR because he lied about having and affair with Monica.

John Kerry was a flip-flopper because he changed his mind.

Barack Obama was errr umm you know um, he was BORN IN KENYA...Yeah that's it. wink wink...

trump lies about everything.

trump changes his mind mid-sentence.

trump is WHITE,

DownriverDem

(6,226 posts)
16. Yep
Fri May 11, 2018, 10:44 AM
May 2018

I am white and I go out of my way to make sure folks know I am not a repub or trump supporter. I am extremely disgusted with the white folks who are repubs and support trump.

pnwmom

(108,959 posts)
12. His lying is a function of his monumental narcissism. There is no separate truth in his mind.
Fri May 11, 2018, 09:32 AM
May 2018

He is the arbiter of all truth; and what is true is whatever he needs to be true at any given point in time.

So the people who don't like lying, but disregard his lying are the people who have accepted Trumpness. If he says it then it must be okay, no matter what.

DownriverDem

(6,226 posts)
14. Same with evangelicals
Fri May 11, 2018, 10:41 AM
May 2018

They believe that they are already going to heaven so it doesn't matter what trump says or has done with other women. They believe he will end abortion rights and bring about the end times. Totally disgusting.

Tikki

(14,549 posts)
15. My brother-in-law, who is a pastor, told me that hypocrisy is just grouped
Fri May 11, 2018, 10:42 AM
May 2018

in there with ‘lots of other things a person should try not to do’.

Whoa..just like lying, to me it is one of the worst things a person can do, because..CHILDREN ARE WATCHING AND LISTENING.

Tikki

vlyons

(10,252 posts)
19. Lies from the Buddhist perspective
Fri May 11, 2018, 11:05 AM
May 2018

Telling lies is considered non-virtuous and creates karma that will ripen into more suffering for one's self and for others. We are supposed to be mindful and practice self discipline over what we think, say, and do. The undisciplined mind can create negative and hurtful thoughts, and form negative and hurtful intentions to say and do hurtful things. So one of the first lines of defense against being a hurtful person is to practice the discipline to not allow those nasty little toads to escape our lips. Of course, most of us slip up and tell a lie at sometime. But that's why Buddhism is a practice, and not a religion.

It all boils down to one's own sense of honor. Personally, telling a lie, like stealing, is beneath my dignity. Everyone has to figure this out for himself.

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