Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
Fri May 11, 2018, 09:30 AM May 2018

My case against Gina Haspel

There is a defense of Ms. Haspel that roughly can be summarized this way:

She was a mid level employee during an extremely challenging time in the CIA. She wasn't responsible for the decisions that were made and she was only tangentially involved it the actual execution of most of that policy. She's learned alot from that experience which puts her in a unique place to lead the agency forward.

Here's my rebuttal:

There were many people at the time within the agency that drew the conclusion that what was going on was morally wrong and were counter productive to the goals and aims of the US. Through their objections, or their efforts to avoid involvement, their careers were negatively affected. Some left, some worked the system to get reassigned to positions with less opportunity of advancement yet divorced directly from what was going on, and some who voiced contrary opinions assuredly were passed over for assignments and promotions.

Ms. Haspel did none of that. Furthermore, on every occasion she was given to demonstrate that in fact she had "learned" anything, she has avoided doing so. She advocated (apparently regrettably) the destruction of the tapes that document those acts which she now wishes to avoid. When offered the opportunity to declare what was done was morally wrong, she attempts to justify it, all the while claiming she wouldn't do it again.

Ms. Haspel is hoping to be confirmed for a leadership position. It is one that requires the American people to place a significant amount of blind trust since the vast majority of what she will do will never see the light of day. That kind of trust demands that we see in her past, the demonstration that when difficult decisions have to be made, she will make them correctly, at the time, not 10 years later when it is meaningless. She may have "learned" from these past incidents, but where is the evidence? I see no evidence that when confronted with new challenges and decisions she will make the right decision, at the time that the decision needs to be made, instead of 10 years later. This isn't a job where one "learns as they go". This is a job where subordinates will be looking for her to lead them in the right direction, at the time. It will require that she listen to those voices who were silenced back then and were willing to see clearly the moral fallacies as they were happening.

Where is that evidence?

5 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies

hlthe2b

(102,106 posts)
2. I have a sick feeling that she will be confirmed and as expected send a green light to those
Fri May 11, 2018, 09:38 AM
May 2018

who want to resume torture programs that have ALWAYS violated the Geneva Conventions. It angers me that so many act as though that was not a KNOWN at the time--because, (wait for it... pause again... all together now....) 911 !!!!

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
3. At the time
Fri May 11, 2018, 09:42 AM
May 2018

The phrase that kept going through my mind during those hearings was "at the time".

There were people inside and outside both the agency and the government that were explaining that it was wrong, and counter productive AT THE TIME.

There were FBI interrogators who objected and explained AT THE TIME that it was the wrong path.

There were people like John McCain who had no small experience with torture that were explaining AT THE TIME, that it was a foolish thing to be doing.

The leadership we need is from people who know AT THE TIME what is the right path and wrong path.

OnDoutside

(19,945 posts)
4. I know it touches on Godwin's Law, but she's like the Nazi women who were camp guards in the
Fri May 11, 2018, 09:45 AM
May 2018

concentration camps. "I was only following orders", and then in later years never repents for what she took part in, in fact you just know that given her time over, she'd do exactly the same thing again. That's Gina.

As for Democrats, if the Manchins etc feel they have to vote for her nomination, off with them, but the other Dems (especially those running for President in 2020) vote against, and say that one of their first acts will be to fire her, for the shame she brings on America.

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
5. Avoiding Godwin's law
Fri May 11, 2018, 10:02 AM
May 2018

I understand what you mean, but avoiding Godwin's law, it's a bit like knowing the boss is harassing another employee but "not wanting to get involved". It's related to the "Metoo" thing. Too many people "turned their heads" just because they didn't see the "worst of it". Even now, Gina refuses to admit that something wrong was done, because she'll soon be their boss and she doesn't want to be the one that says they did something wrong.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»My case against Gina Hasp...