Sign says "Black folks need to stay out of white churches" Your thoughts?

[sarah FAILIN]

Just wondering what kind of reception this sign would get here.
Basically a white church is moving to a neighborhood in a predominantly black area and this sign has been put out ahead of the move. Follow the link for the story and the chance to vote on what you think of it.
http://www.wvtm13.com/article/birmingham-pastor-sends-message-to-church-of-the-highlands-with-controversial-sign/20690833

Fwiw, these are not my sentiments.

[hlthe2b]

1. Do you REALLY think the majority of DUers would condone such ugly racism? n/t

?

[sarah FAILIN]

5. I think it depends.

Some people actually agree with this sign, believe it or not.

[Hortensis]

189. "Some" people at DU could be counted on the fingers of one

hand, Failin, and it's my personal belief that every one would have come here to cause trouble.

After all, when has anyone ever seen an aggressive racist who wasn't a hatemongering, divisive troublemaker? It's intrinsic to the definition, Failin.

[WillowTree]

11. You do realize that this is not a situation of white-on-black racism, do you not?

The ugly sign is posted in front of a predominantly black church by a black pastor.

Still ugly racism, but not as it might appear on the surface of it.

[Tipperary]

20. Interesting.

Perhaps the op will answer your question.

[hlthe2b]

26. and my comment holds... n/t

[Amishman]

184. Just as racist and disgusting as if the new church had put it out

Coming from a black pastor of a predominantly black church doesn't excuse it at all

[Fix The Stupid]

185. Umm...yes it does excuse it...

Only white people can be racist.

[Fix The Stupid]

157. Yes, as long as the 'right' race is being impugned...of course.

All one needs to do is open their eyes.

As long as it is the correct race being the aggressor and the correct race being impugned.

Racism means something really odious on this board - not the dictionary definition...

[Girard442]

2. White folks need to go to actual churches.

If, whenever you picture a cross it's on fire, you may not be a Christian.

[Eliot Rosewater]

3. Why do you ask or care?

[sarah FAILIN]

4. I'm waiting to get a few more responses

Before I say.

Is the sign ok to you?

[Codeine]

44. Most truely your Cleverness knoweth no bounds

and your Mother Wit doth surpasseth all.

[angrychair]

6. Should not be surprised

People that think this is a new phenomenon or an American concept have not read history.
Christianity has been racist and/or xenophobic from its inception.

[sarah FAILIN]

10. A black pastor made the sign

We are all offended by it in my circle of "white folks" but this group has a different way of thinking. Do you still feel the same?

[angrychair]

28. Yes

My comment was about religion, not about how much or how little melanin someone has in their skin.

[MineralMan]

7. When you ask for people's thoughts, it's best to tell your own first.

DUers thoughts on this are pretty well established.

Mine are: What bullshit!

[sarah FAILIN]

8. Would you feel the same..

If the person that made the sign is black?

[MineralMan]

21. My deal sarah, that would not matter to me at all.

It's a stupid sign. It's a stupid sentiment. Personally, I think people, in general, should stay out of churches altogether.

I don't care who put that sign up. It's irrelevant. The sign speaks for itself, and stupidly, at that.

I see, now, that you're attempting to use a little trickery here to get people to say something so you can counter them.

That's why I suggested that you should tell us what you think before asking others. I see now why you did not.

[sarah FAILIN]

34. Look at my first post..

I specifically said fwiw these are not my sentiments.

I thought it was clear what I thought of it. I included the link so there was no trickery.

Thank you for answering the post because my theory was there are a lot of people that wouldn't agree a black person can have racist ideas.

[MineralMan]

38. I'm sorry, but you still hid your intentions in your original post.

You were trying to fool people. That's not really very nice, I think.

[sarah FAILIN]

45. How could you be fooled??

I posted the link.

But i also think people here make a lot of assumptions without reading the links...

You should go to the link and vote as to if you think it was too far.

[MineralMan]

47. Should I? I don't vote in polls like that one.

Not ever.

And I was not fooled at all. I could see that you were attempting to trick DUers. As I said, that's not a very nice thing to do. In fact, I find it rather reprehensible.

That's why I asked you to tell your opinion before asking others to tell theirs. That you did not do that was my first clue that you were trying to game people.

I find such games to be offensive. But, it's DU, and you can do as you please. I can reply as I please, too, which I have done. Now, I'm finished with this thread of trick questions.

[sarah FAILIN]

50. And you still don't acknowledge that I gave my opinion in the op.

That is funny.

[MineralMan]

59. I acknowledge that you equivocated.

I acknowledge that you phrased what you said to obscure something.

I acknowledge that I was not fooled by that. I could see what you did, and responded appropriately with my honest opinion of what was on that church sign.

You did succeed in fooling some people, which I assume was your goal in concealing an important fact in your original post. I acknowledge that, as well.

Brava!

[cynatnite]

93. The OP used a BS article that told only a small portion of the story behind the sign...

[link:https://www.al.com/living/index.ssf/2018/05/pastor_denounces_highlands_urb.html|

[Ferrets are Cool]

54. +1

[Glamrock]

107. Agreed brother.

I was, raised catholic and gave that uo by the time I was a junior in HS. That being said it contradicts the words of Jesus. If i was a member of that church,id be gone. Taking my donations with me, which, I'm quite sure is what that sign was about.

[WillowTree]

23. Well, to be fair, it qualifies as BS no matter whose sentiment it represents.

[Odoreida]

9. A "white church" would be ...

... one where being "white" is a requirement of their religion.

Everyone should stay away.

Or stand outside yelling.

[sarah FAILIN]

14. Truthfully the new church is a very wealthy church

But the sign maker sees it as just a white church.

The sign maker is black btw. Is it less racist now?

[FSogol]

32. Ah, the self-proclaimed DU School Marm is here to scold us all!

[Tipperary]

37. Well, she has a point.

Interesting story.

[FSogol]

61. Err, the punchline is "PS. He's black! I bet all you liberals feel sorry now!" Ridiculous thread,

IMO.

[Blue_true]

101. If the church did not put out the sign, her point is perfectly valid.

If the church had nothing to do with the sign, why blame it because it is almost all white. Sounds like it may want Black people to join, if not, why move into a Black area? If they wanted to stay all white, they could have easily moved to a purely white part of town, if Sarah is right, the church surely had the money to buy property anywhere.

[NCTraveler]

62. It's not racist.

Nice how you have tried to play this game. You knew going in playing it straight up wouldn't have given you your wanted responses.

[Eliot Rosewater]

94. Part of white privilege, oops, I used the W word, is to be able to INSIST

that non whites can be racist.

They cant, of course, they can be bigoted and idiotic but until they have the power, not racist.

[Blue_true]

106. Aren't you calling a muffin a fat biscuit?

By your reasoning, a Black person who denied a white oerson that is almost dead from thirst water because the person is white is a simple bigot, but a white person who does the same to a Black is a racist, because whites as a group hold more power than Blacks. That is twisted reasoning, sorry. Normally you are pretty much on point, not this time.

[gollygee]

120. It's more like the difference between water going uphill, and water going downhill

Water more often goes downhill, and it has more power going downhill than uphill. It can go uphill in the right circumstances - or with some help - but it isn't likely to do as much harm and our world isn't set up in a way that makes it the default. It's silly to complain about a small amount of water someone is pushing uphill and suggest it's comparable to a waterfall.

[NCTraveler]

113. I completely agree. Nt

[Blue_true]

104. Depends.

If someone Affliated with the church put out the sign, then it is racist. If a Black person who doesn't want Black people joining the church put out the sign, then it is still racist.

If the church moved to a Black area and don't want Black peoples attending, then that church is full of damned fool racists (both words in the descriptive term applies).

[NCTraveler]

112. That is not a "depends" answer.

It’s not racist.

[Blue_true]

115. I think that it is. Maybe there is more to this, but on it's face, it is racist.

Look, I respect you, but unless there is something else to this story, you are wrong on this.

[NCTraveler]

117. A depends answer would include more than one option...

I also think there is more to this. As stated I don’t see it as racist.

Edit to add: I appreciate your kind words. The sentiment is shared.

[Blue_true]

119. Not really kind words.

I respect your posts and it seems that you are a business person who is in business for more than just yourself (too many business people are "me" types, that is why we have so many societal problems and Trump, IMO). It is about respect, not just kind words.

[Blue_true]

99. So, did the church put out the sign or did someone who doesn't want the church there put it out? nt

[sarah FAILIN]

134. It is the black church sign

I just happen to think all racist attitudes are wrong no matter who is pushing them which doesn't seem to be the popular opinion here lately. It has been eye opening recently.

[Blue_true]

144. A lot of people here are bending over backward to show that they are not guilty of white privilege.

The mere fact that they consciously do that is telling. Not that they are bad people, they aren't, I feel all desperately want to see a society that has no racially based endowments.

But reality is different. To kill off racism, people have to admit that it exists to a degree in all races and ethnic groups, once they admit that, they must become completely intolerant toward racism, regardless of what the racist looks like or who the racist is related to. When I go about my activities where I have to work with people from all racial and ethnic backgrounds, I have only two question and both can only be answered after I have openly interacted with a person. Those questions are;

Does the person know his or her field that I am asking for their help in.

Can the person help me deal with the reasons why I sought them out.

If the answer is yes to both those questions, the ONLY reason that I will chose not to work with the person is if he or she is a racist or is sexist or hate people because of their religion (or lack of), and hate a person because of the person's sexual orientation.

[sarah FAILIN]

146. I don't understand it

I feel lately like this is a lost cause with all the new things I've seen the past couple of weeks.
Not everyone is able to not work with someone they think is racist. I've been using this as a time to correct their attitudes which I've always thought was a good thing. I don't think I can keep doing that after the past few weeks.

[Blue_true]

149. One thing that I took to heart a long time ago was knowing who I am.

As long as I have that in order, I really don't give a damn about what people THINK they know about me, or assumptions that they make.

[sarah FAILIN]

151. Yes

I've decided to start using a different id here and ignore posts on racism. That's the only way to go on my way without certain people hounding me

[Blue_true]

153. Good idea. nt

[George II]

181. Using a different ID? Do you have a sock?

[WillowTree]

16. The sign was posted by a black pastor of a predominantly "black" church.

The "white" church is not telling POC to stay away.

[ExciteBike66]

12. I'm a bit confused

The church/pastor that put out the sign, they are black right? And the sign is warning other blacks to not go to the new "white" church moving into the area?

EDIT: I bit of googling confirmed what I said above. If I went to church, I would probably be a bit miffed at that church trying to tell me I couldn't attend a different church.

[sarah FAILIN]

22. Exactly

So is it still racist for a black man to tell other black people to stay away from the white church which is really just a wealthy church with a lot of white members.

[ExciteBike66]

33. I would say yes, it is a racist sentiment

That said, I also thinks it's a bad idea. If one was interested in racial relations, having local black people attend a majority-white church would be an excellent way to further those relations.

[sarah FAILIN]

36. I agree with you

We are all floored this segregationist attitude is ok with that churches members thato posted it.

[ChubbyStar]

124. in two of your replies you say WE

who is we?

[sarah FAILIN]

130. My co workers

They confronted me with this first thing today. They like to bring up ridiculous situation and push me to defend what they think the Democrat position is.

[MoonRiver]

188. DEMOCRAT position?

I hope that is their word, not yours.

[Blue_true]

108. Church service hour is the most segregated hour in America.

I would say cudos to the leaders of the white church, seems that want the faithful, regardless of color. They could have easily moved to another part of town, it seems.

[louis-t]

13. I was invited to an all black church a few years ago

to accept an award for work I did with a music group promoting Detroit. I sat with another white guy at the back of the church. A nice lady came up and said "come up here and sit with us, we're family here." We were invited up on the stage and presented an award signed by our state Senator (Debbie Stabenow). I am now a Motown Ambassador. Anyone who puts up a sign like that is missing the whole point of church and should STFU.

[roamer65]

15. WWJD.

[AJT]

18. Is it a sign from the pastor of a predominately black Baptist church telling

his congregants to stay out of the new church coming to their community?

[sarah FAILIN]

24. Yes

And the community that doesn't attend his church too.

[ret5hd]

19. This post is a trap.

A white suburban church feels there are too many inner city blacks attending their church, so they start a inner city church to lure those blacks back to the 'hood (according to the interviewee on the video at the link)

So the established church in the 'hood put such a sign out to entice the neibors to attend their church.

This OP is deliberately shit stirring in my opinion.

[sarah FAILIN]

27. Really I wanted to see what people here say

So is there any statement a black preacher can make that would be considered racist?

We were all shocked at what he said.

Thank you for reading and watching the link without jumping to conclusions.

[ret5hd]

31. Yeah, you so clever.

[Codeine]

43. This one is patting herself on the back so much

I can hear her shoulder dislocating all the way out in California.

[radical noodle]

80. +1

[sheshe2]

133. Lol

[LanternWaste]

48. I think you merely wanted to illustrate an example of a black person being intolerant.

"Really I wanted to see what people here say..."

I don't think that's quite accurate. I think you simply wanted to illustrate an example of a black person perceived of being intolerant.

(that's not a conclusion, merely an hypothesis)

[sarah FAILIN]

55. Close.

I wanted to see if people here would be as angry about the sign coming from a black person as they were when they thought it was written by a white person. I also wanted to see if they assumed it was written by a white person and many did. 1 person has no problem with the sign and that tells me a lot, but after the recent racial postings I saw this on my local news and decided to post it. It was enlightening.

[Codeine]

88. Oh, your post was enlightening,

on that we can agree.

[cynatnite]

96. You were disingenuous and it was a BS article that didn't tell the real story...

Your post itself is bullshit. You're trying to use DU as a test of racial impartiality.

This pastor was NOT being racist. He had a valid point to make and you used it to further your own agenda.

[sarah FAILIN]

141. It is never racist

If the opinion is one element you agree with.

[Eliot Rosewater]

95. Thanks, by the way, wanna see INTOLERANCE? Put non POC on the receiving end

of the racism, hate and violence that POC have been receiving for 200 years and more, and you will see some epic intolerance!

[Demsrule86]

79. You are exactly right...fail to understand why...

[gollygee]

25. Here's an article for context

https://www.christianheadlines.com/contributors/scott-slayton/black-pastor-opposes-megachurch-campus-coming-to-his-neighborhood.html

One side of New Era Baptist Church’s sign reads “Black folks need to stay out of white churches” and the other says “White folks refused to be our neighbor.”

WTVM-13 in Birmingham interviewed the church’s pastor, Reverend Michael R. Jordan, and he refused to back down from the message on the sign. “Whites left the inner city. They carried their churches with them and they moved to the suburbs. White folk have proved they don’t want to live next door to us or be our neighbors, or worship with us.” He continued, “Now they want to plant a white church in a black neighborhood under the umbrella of supposedly to fight crime. The real reason Church of the Highlands wants to put a white church in a black neighborhood is they have too many black folks at their main campus and they want them to leave and come to a church in their inner city.”

When the interviewer asked Rev. Jordan about Church of the Highlands plans to plant the campus to help fight crime, he said he was “Totally against it because their reasons are not pure. It’s hypocritical. If you don’t want to be our neighbors, if you don’t want to live next door to black African-Americans, how can you put a white church over here to help fight crime? As soon as you finish worshipping, you’re going to go back to the suburbs like you’ve done for 30 years.”


(snip)

Near the end of the interview, Rev. Jordan made an appeal to “every African American who attends a white church.” He said, “Leave now. Come to your mainstream black church. Your focus is different. Our cultures are different. The white institutional church is under watch, because they elected a promiscuous, racist President that’s building walls.”

[WillowTree]

58. More than one way to see something. Would be interested in input from the other side.

He says "The real reason Church of the Highlands wants to put a white church in a black neighborhood is they have too many black folks at their main campus and they want them to leave and come to a church in their inner city." which, of course, assigns a racist motive. But we all know, or should know, that it's folly to think we automatically know what someone else's motives are based on our own biases.

The "real" reason why the Church of the Highlands is opening a facility in that location may........and I emphasize may.......be to make their congregation and its teachings more accessible to the growing number of people in that area who are seeking them out. I don't know which it is.......or if there's another motivation altogether. But neither does Rev. Jordan.

[tonedevil]

63. Which of you is closer...

to the situation? If you aren't in the neighborhood I for one discount your opinion to a number approaching zero.

[WillowTree]

66. Good for you!!

For the record, I didn't state an opinion, other than the fact Rev. Jordan's assessment may or may not reflect the reality of the situation. But nice of you to be so confrontational about it.

You have a great day now!

[tonedevil]

70. You stated it in such a way...

as to convey the idea that your assessment was as valid as Rev. Jordan's. Unless you are equally close to the situation the validity of your opinion is again approaching zero.

[WillowTree]

74. Once more, with feeling........

I don't have an assessment other than there is no definitive information as to what the motivation is for that church to open a facility in that location. All I did say, if you go back and read it, it that there could be any number of explanations that neither you nor I nor the Good Reverend knows about for sure. I outlined one among many possibilities. If you and he choose to assign the most negative of motives to others just out-of-hand, go for it. I choose to wait for more information.

[tonedevil]

75. So your knowledge...

and understanding of what is happening between the New Era Baptist Church and Church Of The Highlands is on an equal footing with Rev. Jordan? You wait for more information to find you. I'll listen to the people on the ground.

[WillowTree]

100. Whatever.

You seem to enjoy contention and hostility. I don't. Go forth and have fun.

[tonedevil]

102. For someone who doesn't enjoy it...

you are certainly well practiced.

[OriginalGeek]

76. "...and they want them to leave and come to a church in their inner city."

Sadly, this wouldn't surprise me at all.

In the 70s when I was a young teen we visited the First Baptist Church of Downtown Dallas many times (we had a home church but First Baptist Dallas was a big mega-church that often had special programs my mother liked to see). I believe that's the same church that Benedict Donald's buddy Jeffress is the head of now but back then the pastor was W.A. Criswell. It was a well known thing that the main mega church in downtown Dallas had established numerous neighborhood churches in predominately black neighborhoods. It wasn't quite as well known (but true nonetheless) that Criswell often claimed that "birds of a feather should flock together". And that sentiment was absolutely because the rich parishioners at the main church didn't want the black people attending their church.

Learning that was the beginning of the end of my relationship with religion.

[underpants]

29. ..

[WhiskeyGrinder]

30. I don't have a problem with it.

Beyond pastors telling people what to do, of course.

[Blue_Adept]

35. All Folks Should Stay Out OF All Churches

Because all lives matter and religion is one of the prime causes of millennia of death and suffering.

[NightWatcher]

46. Religion rots your brain.

We've got preachers telling you whom to vote for and politicians holding prayer services.

The hereafter is a hustle. Religion is a tool of control.

[LanternWaste]

52. As is politics, the nation-state and philosophy.

"religion is one of the prime causes of millennia of death and suffering..."

As is politics, the nation-state and philosophy have also been prime contributors towards death and suffering. Indeed, the concept of the nation-state has successfully been argued to be the primary cause of human death outside of disease (Fields of Blood: Religion and the History of Violence Paperback, by Karen Armstrong).

But I can certainly understand a narrative which focuses on the one at the expense of the others. Bias too, is a human condition.

[spicysista]

39. This particular messenger....

This messenger is known for making outrageous statements. This is not his first time being in the news for saying and/or doing something controversial.
However church, in the south, is a complicated topic. The eleventh hour, on a Sunday morning, is still one of the most segregated hours in the American south. When people refer to "Evangelicals" on the news, it's usually white evangelicals. I can not speak for all black evangelicals, but I can tell you that many have been marching for progress (on the forefront of civil as well as the continuation of progressive ideas) while our white counters often did not. As Rev. King and Bro. Malcom fell while fighting for "negro" rights, Coretta and others rose to fight for gay rights, women's rights, and better pay.
Currently, evangelicals in these overwhelmingly white churches support Dolt 45. Black evangelicals do not.....at all. I'm not interested in discussing this particular pastor. He isn't an honest broker, in my opinion. It's not a matter of "should blacks attend white churches", but rather it's a matter of what's really going on in these white churches..... what are they teaching that would make them okay with supporting someone such as tRump?

[Bettie]

40. Seems less than productive

but I've learned not to expect people heavily involved in organized religion to make sense.

[Codeine]

41. Oh you just keep on churning out the hits, dontcha?

It is roundly evident to all who examine your posts that you are not made for this community, and yet. . .

[IronLionZion]

42. Someone here is FAILIN

[sarah FAILIN]

49. I don't think so.

One person that I expected to have no problem with the sign in fact had no problem with it.

[Codeine]

51. And not for the first time,

I might add.

[tonedevil]

53. All of the comments...

I have seen you make on DU regarding the topic of white/black dynamics are those of a very defensive white person wishing to retain their privilege, but not be criticized for it. This thread is not out of that character.

[sarah FAILIN]

57. Well..

You are free to think what you want even if it's not factually correct.

[tonedevil]

60. Thanks...

for the permission to think as I like, I can't tell you how much I appreciate that. Mostly because I don't. If you actually disputed anything factually this would be where I would counterpoint. Your answer doesn't allow for that.

[sarah FAILIN]

65. Well..

You don't know me. How can you know the facts of anything related to me?

Factually my coworkers are absolutely racists and I try to change their attitudes. They claim I am a liberal apologist to black people. I come here and am told I'm afraid of losing my white privledge which is news to me. The more I hear about it, the more certain I am that I don't fit in either with my co workers or here with people I thought were more like me. It has been an education here lately to read all the different people tell me how racist and privileged I am.

[Tipperary]

69. People love to pile on here.

I hope you do not allow them to run you off.

[ChubbyStar]

125. people love to plie on?

Why do you stay if it is so rough? There must be other boards.

[sarah FAILIN]

140. I made a different profile a couple of months ago

Just because if you don't continuously reflect the echos they put out they circle like sharks. I've wanted to make a new one for 8 years anyway.

[tonedevil]

77. All I know is the postings...

attributed to the DU account sarah FAILIN. When those posts opine on white/black dynamics they come out as defensive of white people and skeptical of black ones. In this case you presented a half story, kind of like that old Paul Harvey radio program, then dropped the gotcha. While you are presenting it as just the same, the billboard would have a completely different meaning if it were put up by a "white" church. In the case of the Rev. Jordan it is intoning his congregants not to leave his flock, if a "white" church put up a sign saying the same thing it would be telling them to stay away.

[sarah FAILIN]

145. There shouldn't be a "gotcha".

Either something is racist or it is not.
You have seen me post some things lately that may seem defensive because people have been making up rules that allowed negative racist names for white people. I think that's wrong when anyone is called names and I'm not apologizing. I also think it's wrong to assume someone knows all the aspects of a situation just because that thought fits which narrative a person chooses to think as with the Yale situation. I thought we needed to know what happened between the time the lights were flipped on and the cameras started rolling, but that is not allowed here.
No matter who put this sign up, it is racist.

[kwassa]

86. The problem is that it has NOT been an education for you.

Your mind has been closed to the things that many DU members are pointing out to you. You really do have some embedded biases against black people, in my opinion, judging by the things you choose to write about and the pattern of those writings.

Here you focused, in a manipulative way, on what you see as reverse racism, to get us all to say "black people do it, too!". It isn't the same on both sides, because white people historically and to a large extent now hold all the power. Black people never held the power.

[ehrnst]

92. Dayum, yes.

[brer cat]

110. +1000 nt

[sarah FAILIN]

142. No it has been an education.

Turns out my racist coworkers are right about some things.
No matter what white people do to try to do right by everyone, it will never be enough for some people.
You people posting this crap have proved that to me over the past few weeks with your W word and refusing to consider any other possibility in the Yale case. I have been a fool to think treating everyone the same would be enough on my part, so I give up. I quit. I will sit over here in the corner from now on whenever anyone makes racist comments and do my nails.
Have fun.

[kwassa]

147. Treating everyone the same is actually not enough.

I am not accusing you of anything other than not knowing enough about the complexities of our racial history. This is not unique to you, it is unfortunately very widespread.

Many very liberal whites think that simply adhering to the principle of equality is enough. The problem is that we are a product of our national history, which is not always rational and has current effects which are quite damaging to minorities. Most people don't know the history, and this includes black and white people. Black people feel the effects, nonetheless.

Your idea that the woman sleeping in the dorm community room could be seen as homeless was fascinating to me. On what basis would you judge her homeless? I accused you of assuming so because the person involved was black, but that was my assumption. I would still like to understand why you would jump to such a conclusion.

[sarah FAILIN]

148. Because..

She was asleep in a "public" place which I thought was more open than it was. My late 80's common room in college was the first room that people came into off the street and it was open to the public. We form opinions based on our own experience and my experience told me it would be easy for a random homeless person to walk in. I never said I thought she was homeless because she is black at any point.

Treating everyone the same SHOULD be enough. Love everyone and dont treat anyone different should be the way we all are no matter the color. Your statement proves what my coworkers love to claim.

[ehrnst]

187. It is so difficult being white, isn't it?

Whn you just know that you are right about everything, and everyone else are actually "the racists."

[nini]

138. The way you come off is a quite the opposite

This is not the first time I've seen you posting things that seem to passive aggressively promote Blacks are just as racist as whites like it's proving some point.

I'm not sure if you enjoy the drama or you simply do not see it in yourself.

You may be one way as you claim but you do not come off that way at all.

[sweetloukillbot]

180. There's a term for people like that

It's gotten a lot of attention here lately and has ruffled a few feathers...

[Codeine]

83. She made a spirited defense of sexism in the tech world

as well; no One Trick Pony she.

[tonedevil]

84. It's good to be...

well rounded. I think I may remember that defense was it to say that the TechBro at Google who ranted about reverse discrimination at work had a point?

[Codeine]

85. The very same.

Some days it’s not worth chewing through the restraints. . .

[jalan48]

56. Churches rely on donations. Lose too many members and you lose your church and the pastor loses

his job.

[JustAnotherGen]

64. I'm sorry

Did you want to attend this church?

ETA - I'm sorry if you found this hurtful. You should leave that denomination and come join the Unitarian Church - we welcome all!

[WillowTree]

68. So, apparently, does the "white" church.

It was the pastor of a "black" church that posted that sign.

[JustAnotherGen]

73. We are Unitarian Universalist

We welcome all. Black White Asian Native Gay Straight Transgender - Mixed marriages of religions etc. etc.


I left Christianity in 2004 and I never looked back - the solution is for everyone to join us and hopefully give up their fairy tales about virgin births.

[NCTraveler]

67. Sound like the doors are open to you.

Take a trip.

[mercuryblues]

71. your OP is

is disingenuous. This is a multi cultural church that put up the sign. He is pretty much calling people out for abandoning the neighborhood. Then coming in and telling them how to do things, out of "concern."

BIRMINGHAM READS BLACK FOLKS NEED TO STAY OUT OF WHITE CHURCHES AND WHITE FOLKS REFUSED TO BE OUR NEIGHBORS.

>> YOU’VE MOVED YOUR CHURCHES, AND YOU’VE MOVED YOUR HOMES TO THE SUBURBS AND YOU CANNOT COME AND SAY YOU’RE FIGHTING CRIME, YOU DON’T WANT TO BE OUR NEIGHBORS, AND THAT’S WHAT THIS SIGN IS ABOUT.

[Blue_Tires]

72. It's shit like this that makes me want to say

All folks should stay out of all churches, and I'm far from an atheist...

[spanone]

78. fuck these racist assholes.

[Tipperary]

81. Which ones?

[ChubbyStar]

126. WEEEEE

This is fun like a roller coaster.

[MaryMagdaline]

82. Great

Do Black people get to keep Jesus, then?

[Vinca]

87. You really need to let the church know that JC wasn't really a blond, white guy.

Chances are, he'd be excluded from their church.

[kwassa]

89. You misrepresent what really happened. You don't tell the real story.

because you don't tell the story behind the pastor's complaint.

https://yellowhammernews.com/church-of-highlands-pastor-angry/

“White folk have proved they don’t want to live next door to us, or be our neighbors, or worship with us,” Jordan told WVTM 13. “Now they want to plant a white church in a black neighborhood under the umbrella of supposedly to fight crime. The real reason Church of the Highlands wants to put a white church in a black neighborhood is they have too many black folks at their main campus and they want them to leave and come to a church in their inner city.”

Church of the Highlands is a multi-site megachurch founded by Chris Hodges in the suburbs of Birmingham in 2001. It is the largest congregation in Alabama and the second largest in the United States.

When asked about the church’s plans to help fight crime, Jordan said he’s against it because the motive is “not pure.”

“It’s hypocritical,” he said. “If you don’t want to be our neighbors, if you don’t want to live next door to black African-Americans, how can you put a white church over here to help fight crime? As soon as you finish worshipping, you’re going to go back to the suburbs like you’ve done for 30 years.”

[Eliot Rosewater]

97. Well yeah, DUH, but if you tell the REAL story it wont be filled with innuendos and

traps for people

The depth of butt hurt non POC have over their own racism is amazing.

[sarah FAILIN]

150. I posted the news link that came on my tv.

I didn't try to hide anything and I invited people to go to the link and vote. Had they looked they would have seen the whole story I saw.

I also thought the crime fighting claim was bs, but I still think the pastor was wrong to say what he did.

[kwassa]

156. oh, you tried to hide everything by the way you set up your OP.

You suggested an incident was completely different than it turned out to be.

[sarah FAILIN]

159. No I did not. You ASSUMED

You assumed the person putting up the sign was white and you didn't bother to look at the link. That is on you.

[kwassa]

162. No, I didn't, because I know a setup when I see one.

And now I know just exactly how honest and non-racist you are. And how informed.

[sarah FAILIN]

164. You are funny

I expected people to watch the story before jumping to conclusions.

This just proves that a lot of people are incapable of assessing a situation themselves and find it more convenient isn't to echo the word of the day. The echo chamber must be more fun when you get to "pile on"

Not my problem.

[kwassa]

165. And you are being dishonest

as you have been throughout this thread. I guessed what the video was about without seeing it; the link was dead when I got to the story, and I read the actual news story instead.

You tried to trick people, and failed. The larger issue is that you don't understand what racism really is; it is about power as well as prejudice, and black people don't have the power, white people do.

[kwassa]

169. The link didn't work when I tried it the other day.

so I did what I said I did. I googled the story and found another source, which actually explained what was going on, unlike your deceptive OP.

You yourself said that being equal to everyone isn't enough. You want to know who is causing racist attitudes in America? It is people acting with that attitude. Now I caught a bunch of people showing their double standards and they have egg on their face. It is not my problem. You said yourself equality is not good enough, so I'm done. .
This is me, filing my nails and totally ignoring every racist thing I see. Thank you for making my life so much easier.

No, racism is embedded into American society, and like many white people, you never see it because you never experience it. Because you never experience it in your life, it can't possibly exist. Do you understand how illogical this is?

American society is stacked against black people, and this is historical legacy. I think you are not fully aware of the history.

Simple question: What is Jim Crow?

[sarah FAILIN]

171. Do you really think we don't know what Jim Crow laws are?

Get real.

[kwassa]

172. You don't.

You show no signs of understanding America's racial history. You think racism is over.

[sarah FAILIN]

174. Oh no I do.

I use to fight racist attitudes constantly from the inside till I was enlightened by you people here. Racism is alive and well and being encouraged by people that enjoy having that wedge driven in deeper.

[cynatnite]

90. The article itself is complete bullshit and does not tell the whole story...

Google is your friend.

Pastor denounces Highlands' urban plan as 'slavemaster church'/

The Church of the Highlands plan needs to be considered in historic context, Jordan said.

"Because of white flight and societal change where whites left the city, they did not want to be our neighbors, did not want their kids to go to school with our children," Jordan said. "They left the churches too. They sold the churches to us. White folks don't want to be our neighbors. If you don't want to be our neighbor, why do you feel comfortable putting a white church in the inner city? Their response is we will have a black pastor. He'll be a token. They'll still control the sermons, they'll still control the choir, the white administrative leadership will still run the church."

[DFW]

91. The whole notion sounds ridiculous

But I have always found the notion of churches in general ridiculous, so this is just a sub-paragraph to me. This ain't 1950 no more.

[Glamrock]

98. Not surprised.

Here's how I read it....

Don't go to another church! We want your weekly donations here and will rely on race-baiting to hammer that point home.

[Tipperary]

103. Yes, I think you nailed it.

[kwassa]

121. I think you didn't read it.

You didn't read the underlying story behind the pastor's remarks.

[Glamrock]

123. True that!

I read the sign. Just like everybody driving by. If you need a story to explain your message board....you've failed.

[kwassa]

127. Uh, no.

You failed, I think.

[Glamrock]

128. Maybe

But tell that to everyone else who drives by without a webpage explaining what they're trying to get across. and just sees racism. Good luck.

[kwassa]

132. It blew up into a big story when everyone misunderstood it.

and from what I see in this thread, most everyone still misunderstands it.

And doesn't care that they misunderstand it.

they would rather feel fake righteous outrage.

[Glamrock]

135. Okay.

You're right.I see the error of my ways. I should always question racist sounding shit when I see it. They probably don't mean it. Perhaps when I get home I can get around to some research to see if there was some deeper meaning somewhere. I concede.brother. Next time I see some racist shit I'll give it the benefit of the doubt. They probably don't mean it the way I see it,the way they put it in the public sphere with no explanation. Thanks for schooling me.

[kwassa]

137. Don't jump to conclusions.

The internet is all about moral outrage. People loves to feel outraged, and morally superior.

Most all of it is false, or simplistic. Much is simply incomplete.

Be skeptical always.

[Glamrock]

139. Alls I'm saying is

If you're going to put out a msg like that in the public sphere with no explanation or even a link to an explanation.You've failed.How else are people to supposed to take something so blatantly racist. White supremacists are going to drive by and go ,"fuckin right!" And people like me are going to see it as racism or,like I said in an earlier post,something more nefarious. If there was a point trying to be made, it was missed by the vast vast majority. And we're not really talking about an internet story here,we're talking about the community that sees that sign everyday that drives by. Whether they belong to that church or not. It was a bad move and bad msging.

[kwassa]

143. Context. He was talking to his neighborhood.

Those that saw the sign drove through his neighborhood, and lived there. How could he know that it would go viral on the internet?

I have no problem with what he said. Many black institutions, and most of black culture have been pillaged by white people. Where do you think rock 'n roll came from? He is conscious of the history, and he is talking to his own community. He is saying be wary, and he has good historical reasons for saying so.

[guillaumeb]

105. Recommended.

Would non-white, clearly dark skinned and obviously Semitic Jesus be banned from this congregation of northern European worshipers?

[WillowTree]

109. Clearly not, since the "stay out of white churches" message didn't come from the "white" church.

You didn't check out the whole story, did you?

[guillaumeb]

116. I did, actually.

Bit I added that comment in addition.

[dembotoz]

111. the church i grew up in and still attend was very white in a white area. times change so did the

church.
it is now prob over half black with whites being mostly older.

the church always made it a point to be inclusive.
matter of survival as much as theology.

seems to have worked somewhat....do not hear rumors of the place closing as it did a few years back
the building also holds a hmoung congregation and a burmese congregation.

the congregations seem to get along well enough although talks to merge 2 the traditional and hmong groups went no where in a hurry.

[Caliman73]

114. There has always been a movement within communities of color to support each other...

rather than supporting the establishment (AKA White owned entities). While the pastor may be controversial in his approach to things, he is stating that standard appeal. Support Black enterprises, go to a Black barber/hairstylist, put your money in Black owned banks and businesses.

Some people see that as segregation and discrimination but other people see it as investing in a community that is often neglected or discriminated against and exploited by the dominant culture.

Malcolm X and MLK had differences of opinion on this matter at some point with Malcolm X rejection White help or White allies at the beginning of his career and MLK looking for unity in the fight for racial equality. It really depends on how you view society where the rules have favored White ownership of ALL resources and on occasion the rules have been changed to ensure White supremacy. If you realize that there have been times when Black people had built up wealth and were beginning to have political power like in Tulsa in the 1920's but angry White people literally burned the Black section of Tulsa down to stop it.

I prefer a unified approach but having been on the receiving end of discrimination, I understand the sentiment.

[WillowTree]

122. And yet, by his own statement, the Reverend acknowledges.......

.......that a noticeable number of people from that community are already frequenting the "white" church in its more suburban location. Those people must have found something there that they weren't getting from the churches closer to home. That's usually why people change churches or denominations or parishes. It would seem, though maybe I'm wrong about this, but it would seem that he didn't think it was that much of a big deal until the church decided to open a satellite facility in the community where those people live or he wouldn't have waited until now to post his admonition. Wonder why that is.........

[kwassa]

136. What he it talking about is the relationship of the church to the community.

Why should he care about what a church does far away until it opens a branch in his community?

He is pastor of a more traditional church that reflects the local community. Black denominations developed because whites wouldn't accept them in their churches. He is suspicious of this new entry in his community, and he really knows the history. His community is segregated because of racist US housing policy.

The pastor is NOT noticing that a number of people from his community are frequenting the white church, but that other black people are, and is worried that local black people will be attracted. He is also calling out white people for their hypocrisy. He suspects that there will really no effort from the megachurch to help his community, and he is probably right.

[WhiteTara]

118. Well, God isn't in there for sure.

I personally wouldn't go in there and would walk on the other side of the street to keep the cooties away.

[Catherine Vincent]

129. I don't agree with the Pastor or his sign

But is that his opinion on the church's motives or is there some truth to it?

[salin]

131. I could be wrong, but I don't think the poster is concerned with context.

In the context given, after another poster links an actual story (am I tech blind - b/c the OP link gave me almost no information - did I miss something?) I had a different impression. Like your, not negative or positive, but a more general question for discussion. But that doesn't seem to be the point.

[sarah FAILIN]

155. It is a news story

With video from the pastor in question. It was the story that was on my local tv.

[Bok_Tukalo]

152. Some people are just assholes.

Sometimes, these assholes are black.

Anyone who tells you black people cannot be assholes, are assholes. Move on.

[sarah FAILIN]

160. True.

[fleabiscuit]

154. I've always thought churches should have a law and a sign "No Minors" nt

[WillowTree]

158. Perhaps the Church of the Highlands should have their marquee say.......

......."Feel free to think for yourself and worship at whatever church you choose. God Bless."

[sarah FAILIN]

161. Good idea.

[Initech]

163. Let's have everyone separate. Nobody get together and share ideas.

I'm sure that's what Dr. King would have wanted!

[Generic Other]

166. This whole argument is premised on the idea

that both sides are and always have been treated as equals which the OP knows very well is not true. So now, because it's too much for some whites to have to acknowledge collective guilt, she demands blacks share the burden of white guilt by admitting they are racists for not liking or trusting her based on her skin color.

The false equivalency argument that claims blacks are racist towards whites sounds like something the alt right came up with to slander any black person who dares to point fingers at their oppressors.

To tell you the truth, I am surprised when any person of color acts civilly towards white people given the ugly history we share. I am humbled by the fact that there are those able to look past skin color and forgive at all. Not that you consider me (a mixed race person) one of you, but I sure as hell am not going to be such a hypocrite as to tell any black person in this country that they are a racist. Instead, I will try to make sure I am not a racist. And I will try not to call the cops when someone is BBQing while black, or shopping while black, or playing music while black, or eating at Waffle House while black...

[kwassa]

170. You really don't get it.

I will gladly pay for my mistakes, but I will not pay for the mistakes of people that lived 100 years ago. You can forget that. Either we are all equal or the angry and bitter people can sit and stew over the past. None of it is a concern to me since you and all these other people are responsible for their own happiness.

Most of white wealth since the great Depression came through equity in home ownership. Many whites acquired homes after WWII through the GI Bill, which extended loans through HUD to buy homes. Blacks were denied such loans. Black GIs were denied such loans. Whites could not get HUD loans if they lived near black people. Therefore, black urban ghettos, white suburban tracts. This was Federal policy.

My mother in law had to go to segregated schools. My wife was the first to desegregate a previously all-white school. This is not ancient history, but recent history. You don't understand this. This is not 100 years ago.

[sarah FAILIN]

173. No I really do get it.

It doesn't matter if it was 100 years ago or 10 years ago, you said yourself being equal is not enough. You made your position clear.

Fyi, there are a lot of racist people looking at what you posted and saying, "see, I told you so" because of your attitude

[kwassa]

175. Equity and equality are not the same thing.

And this is a very important concept that you have not considered.

You are quite uneducated in the racial history of this country, and the understanding of how our history impacts the current racial disparities in this country. This is my opinion.

If you think I am wrong, please debate it with me. You must, however, supply factual support for your position. I will do likewise.

I don't believe you are up for the challenge.

[sarah FAILIN]

176. Equity? Really?

I have told you I have no interest in debating a racist anymore, lol, but I do know how to get rid of a stalker which is what you are being. Goodbye.

[kwassa]

177. You lost this argument.

You have shown no sign that you understand either the arguments or the history of racism in this country.

[ehrnst]

182. Be careful. The glass in that house you live in looks pretty thing.

[Empowerer]

178. Racists are much more likely to look at what YOU post and say, "Thanks for spreading the word!"

[ehrnst]

183. "A lot of people" here on DU are racist?

Can you provide some back up for that?

I think you may not understand what DU is...

But enjoy your time here.

[edhopper]

186. I think he is right

but I also think white folk should stay out of whit churches.
In fact I think all folk should just stay out of churches.