Hamas' catastrophe: Terrorists are chiefly to blame for the tragic loss of life in Gaza

[Fozzledick]

The killing by Israel Defense Forces Monday of more than 50 Palestinians who set fires, tried to detonate bombs and shoot soldiers, and sought to breach the Jewish state's security fence was a terrible human tragedy.

It was a tragedy created by the Hamas terrorists in Gaza and their enablers in the Palestinian Authority, who feed their people the poison that Israel can and must be destroyed.

Who tell them that, should they lose their lives while endangering or ending the lives of Israelis, they will be rewarded with a place in paradise.

Who pay the families of so-called martyrs who kill innocent Jews as much as $3,500 a month.

And who continue to encourage, in waves of riots leading up to what they call the Nakba ("the Catastrophe" of the establishment of Israel), violent reaction from Israel. For Hamas, the more bloodshed, the better.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/hamas-catastrophe-article-1.3989787

[Ccarmona]

1. The Daily News Story Offers the Israeli/Trump POV

The impartial Doctors Without Borders Condemns the 'Bloodbath' in Gaza as a Result of Israel's 'Disproportionate Use of Violence. This is a completely different take on what happened Monday.
Their spokeswoman, Marie-Elisabeth Ingres, “...made it clear that, despite the White House's blaming of the killings on Hamas, Doctors Without Borders believes Israel's policies are the cause of the brutality.”


https://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/doctors-without-borders-condemns-bloodbath-gaza-result-israels-disproportionate|

[Fozzledick]

2. That's funny, the Daily News has been outspoken in their condemnation of Trump lately

but I guess if you're desperate to deny the facts then any excuse will do.

[Ccarmona]

5. PS. You Quoted an Opinion Piece From the NYDN' Editorial Page

Hardly a factual source.

[panader0]

3. I doubt Jerry Garcia would agree with you.

Perhaps a new avatar--like Bibi Netanyahu

[marble falls]

4. Again, the NYDN??? Nah.

[Roland99]

6. Women throwing stones from hundreds of feet away. Damn terrorists

Why post this trump nutsack licking bullshit?

[NCTraveler]

7. Can't agree with this.

“We do know that, for humanitarian and political reasons, Israel does not want to kill.”


They instigate and more. As do we.

This reads just like so many other propoganda pieces we have become accustom to reading.

[Fozzledick]

10. I have to disagree with you.

I've been seeing a lot of propaganda pieces lately trying to justify Hama's use of suicidal human wave attacks to attempt to breach Israel's border defenses and slaughter the Jewish population. The ironic thing is Hamas doesn't even deny that that's what they're trying to do, they actually brag about it.

This doesn't look anything like that at all.

[NCTraveler]

24. Those qualify just as this one does.

Mentioning one arm of propaganda doesn’t simply negate the remaining propaganda.

[mythology]

18. If you point a gun at somebody and pull the trigger,

you can't claim to not want to kill.

When they deliberately run people over with bulldozers, they can't claim to not want to kill.

When they keep building new settlements on Palestinian land, they can't claim to be innocent.

[superpatriotman]

8. Can you spot them by their uniforms?

Or their tanks?
Planes?
Ships?
Artillery?

How, oh how, do you spot them?

[Fozzledick]

9. I think the swastikas are an obvious giveaway.

Incendiary kites adorned with swastikas fly across the Gaza border.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1134135793

Some people's idea of a "peaceful nonviolent demonstration".

[flotsam]

30. Oh-that would be the "Kite O Death"...

Which Israel responded to by launching airstrikes against "kite launching zones" as determined by heat plumes detected by high tech sensors...And they claimed Israel was at a disadvantage because it was hard to embargo "Paper, strings, tin cans, and inflammable fluids". Yep them F16's and air to ground missiles are certainly proportionate responses to $5 "weapons"...

[Oneironaut]

11. Both sides absolutely do not want peace.

Both also enjoy provoking a reaction out of the other, and trying to play the innocent victim after it happens.

[Crunchy Frog]

31. But only one side actually gets killed in large numbers.

[Madam Mossfern]

32. They knew that going into it

not that I'm excusing excessive deadly force. Would you step into a wood chipper
because you're angry that someone cut down your favorite tree?

BTW, I'm known for my bad analogies - but you probably can get the just.

[Orsino]

34. Martyrdom is a powerful weapon, garnering sympathy it may not entire deserve.

Imagining that sixty-two people conspired be killed, though, is ludicrous, as is writing off the dead as all "terrorists."

[Archae]

12. I have this really odd idea...

How about Hamas knocks off the "martyrdom" bullshit, and actually negotiates HONESTLY?

Israel will negotiate, now if only Hamas will knock off their little tantrums.

[doxyluv13]

13. Don't post opinion pieces as facts.

Don't you know the difference.

[Fozzledick]

16. That's like, just your opinion, man.

Sauce for the gander.

[RockRaven]

14. This sort of argument ignores

the agency of
a) nonviolent Palestinian protestors
b) marginally-dangerous violent Palestinian protestors (i.e. rock-throwers)
c) Israeli soldiers
d) Israeli commanders

They are all autonomous individuals who made decisions which factored massively into the loss of life seen this week.

And it ignores the actions (and the goals of said actions) of Israeli and American politicians this past week, never mind these past decades.

It is both paternalistic, infantilizing BS and biased propagandizing to cite Hamas terrorists/PA as the primary culprit. There is far, far too much culpability here and too many parties involved for any one to be "chiefly to blame."

[Fozzledick]

17. Yeah, right, that's like blaming Hitler for the Holocaust.

There are so many other actors you can deflect blame onto (if that's your agenda).

[RockRaven]

21. That's a spurious argument for several reasons

but the most obvious is the in-group/out-group difference between Hamas/Palestinians versus Hitler/Holocaust victims. Your example conflates the two, yet their in-group/out-group designation was entirely opposite.

Instead of "the Holocaust" you should have referred to the entirety, or some subset, of those who Hitler/Nazis considered German who died in WWII. Then the analogy would have been coherent, even if the same objections would still have been valid. Of all of the people who Hitler/Nazis considered one of theirs who died in WWII, a great many of them died because of decisions and actions by themselves, Stalin, Russian military leaders, Russian soldiers, American leadership, American soldiers, British leaders, British soldiers. It is an act of willful blindness to lay it just at the foot of one party, even if he/they be a real-life bogeyman.

But then, if that's your agenda...

[Fozzledick]

22. Damn, that's some serious weapons-grade pretzel logic you've got there.

But don't stop now - I'm sure you can explain why the U.S. was responsible for the attack on Pearl Harbor and the Chinese are to blame for the Rape of Nanking.

[RockRaven]

23. Another fallacy

But don't stop now.

Keep building those straw-men.

Maybe you can do it enough to distract from whatever is motivating you to post thusly. Probably not though.

[msongs]

19. the trigger puller is responsible for deaths that result nt

[Fozzledick]

20. No, the instigator of the assault is responsible - textbook felony murder.

Just like all participants in an armed robbery are culpable for any deaths that result, even when its the robbers themselves that are killed by armed guards.

[Cicada]

27. Maybe next time they can use flame throwers, better kill rate I bet

Obviously guns are better than water cannons, or other non lethal methods, but flame throwers would be better still.

[Docreed2003]

28. And who is the instigator in this???

Newsflash...it ain't either side in the region.

Frankly, you arguing that by crossing fences that these people deserve this calamity, is just disgusting. No less disgusting than the post by another member earlier today that tried to downplay the deaths of Palestinian children or if some Palestinian shouted "death to Israel". Disgusting is disgusting and deserves being called out.

[Cicada]

25. Water cannons? Non lethal Alternatives?

[EX500rider]

26. I agree.

“These riots represent unprecedented violence,” Brig. Gen. Ronen Manelis, the IDF Spokesperson, said about the riots led by Hamas, the Islamist terror group that rules over the Gaza Strip. Under cover of this violence, Hamas has been attempting to carry out terror attacks against Israelis.

40,000 rioters have amassed on the border, using explosives, guns, molotov cocktails, and even arson kites to breach the security fence. The IDF has dropped leaflets warning Gazans against approaching the fence - a clear breach of Israel’s sovereignty - but in order for Hamas to continue carrying out its activities, they must continue inciting these riots. Destitute Gazans are receiving $100 per family, bankrolled by Iran, to approach and dismantle the security fence. Those who do not participate are threatened by the terror organization. Hamas is coercing Gazans to risk their lives.

Thus far, three Hamas cells have used the cover of these riots to fire at IDF soldiers and seven have attempted to dismantle the border fence. Facebook pages affiliated with Hamas are uploading maps that show the proximity of the riots to Israeli communities. “There’s no other way to understand these pictures than as a threat against these communities,” Brig. Gen. Manelis said. “There’s no other way to interpret them.”

https://www.idf.il/en/minisites/hamas/unprecedented-violence-on-the-security-fence/

And of course everyone who discounts this source takes Hamas causality figures at face value.

[John Fante]

29. This is akin to placing the blame for My Lai

soley on the Vietcong while pretending that the US troops who carried out the massacre were innocent and squeaky clean.

[hack89]

33. If the viet cong had mobilized the villagers to attack a fortified US military base

with the intent to breach the defenses and kill Americans then who would be to blame?