"If we ban guns they will just find another way."

[Heartstrings]

Then let them find another way. Let them try to kill dozens in a matter of minutes with a damn butter knife. Let them hurl stones. Let's force mass murderers to get creative as hell. Because I'm sick and tired of it being easy for them!

[hack89]

1. Which national ban will be your model? Drugs or Prohibition? Nt

[Hoyt]

2. Guess you don't subscribe to "law-abiding gun owner" or similar BS.

[hack89]

7. We can engage in all sorts of fantasies

When we depart from reality. There will be no national gun bans.

[Hekate]

3. How about telling the murderous enablers...

...to do something disastrous to themselves?

All intelligent ideas have been shouted down or ignored -- and still our children die and die and die.

[Hekate]

17. And still our children die for Moloch's unquenchable thirst for blood. They die and die and die...

And if you think that's a rant, you'll need smelling salts if I ever let loose, hack89.

[hack89]

20. There is plenty we can do.

solutions actually grounded in American historic, cultural and legal reality. There will never be national gun bans. And history shows us that even limited bans will be ignored.

[Hekate]

22. Have you come up with any, or do you just knock down other peoples'? Our children die daily. nt

[LiberalFighter]

29. You say there are plenty but you don't provide any.

[Glamrock]

4. There's some European models we could start with.

[hack89]

5. Missed my point. Which model will the American public comply with?

Have you checked the compliance rate with CT and NY AWBs?

[PSPS]

12. Don't be silly. Everyone knows a national ban would resolve the problem of adjacent-state sales.

[hack89]

15. Really? That is the issue? nt

[Heartstrings]

11. Here's one country for the example....

The "shitty argument" wasn't directed at you Glam, or anyone else for that matter. Just an example....

[Glamrock]

14. Nope

Didn't take it that way. Plus, you pretty well bolstered my statement...

[appalachiablue]

23. Very good plan, good for Japan. Thanks for posting.

[EffieBlack]

8. If there any other banned products made for the primary purpose of killing humans and

have no other significant non-lethal purpose, we can model it on that ban. If there are any such products that are currently legal, we can ban those, too

[hack89]

9. Meaningless answer.

The point of my question is what model is there that people will obey? It is not like national gun bans have overwhelming public support. Just like pot and booze, there will be massive civil disobedience. And in this case, there will be politicians and LEOs resisting. How do you realistically overcome that?

[RainCaster]

25. Mindless response

If you are not an NRA troll, you are certainly making noises like a well trained NRA stooge.

So let's talk about a model that does work, that an entire country signed up to when they got fed up with the exploding gun violence. Yes, I'm talking about Australia. The main difference between us and them is the NRA, an organization of gun owners who have been convinced that they must protect the gun manufacturers at all cost, including the lives of children.

[TimeSnowDemos]

27. You can't

Americans are hell bent on letting gun owners decide who lives and dies.

The rest of the world has a lot more sense re: guns.

[NightWatcher]

10. Fully automatic machine guns...

I know a guy who has one but most people are prohibited from having them.

[Kotya]

13. Anyone who can legally own a gun can legally purchase a fully automatic machine gun.

All it takes is a background check and money. Lots and lots of money.

You can buy an AR-15 for about $500 for starters. To legally own a M-16 would set you back about $20,000 once you find someone willing to part with theirs.

This is why we don't see a bunch of legally-owned machine guns. There just aren't that many in circulation. Modifying semi-auto assault rifles is a major felony and with so many semi-auto assault weapons cheaply available, most don't see it worth the trouble.

[hack89]

16. Most people can legally own a machine gun

if they pass the background checks and can afford it. The issue is they are hard to find and very expensive.

[NightWatcher]

24. But few do. That's my point, while not strict prohibition, the cost and REGULATIONS act to limit.

I think that is the plan that firearm possession should take. Highly regulated, expensive as hell, and traceable back to your ass if you screw around with one.

Practical Prohibition.

[gratuitous]

18. "You'll never get people to stop driving drunk"

It's practically a rite of passage in some areas of the country. You can't stop it completely, dedicated drunks will always find a way to drive. There's no way short of prohibition to stop drunk driving, and that didn't work even with a constitutional amendment.

And other great hits from 1980. It didn't stop Mothers Against Drunk Driving then, and it shouldn't stop us now. Is drunk driving totally gone? No, but it is no longer a rite of passage in various pockets of the United States. Drive drunk, and you aren't a hero with your buddies; you're more likely to come home to an intervention. Watch the movie "Arthur" some time. Released in 1982, it depends for a lot of laughs on Arthur being drunk and driving drunk. It hasn't aged well.

And most of all, ignore the nitpickers and the flyspeckers who claim that nothing will work. They're no longer part of the conversation, because they can't make a cogent point when their hands are dripping blood.

[Dem2]

19. I agree

That argument they use is just dumb.

Guns are the most efficient way to kill humans at close range, which is what they were designed to do.

[Heartstrings]

21. And that was the missed point!

Thank you for pointing that out!

[KY_EnviroGuy]

32. Extremely fast as well and requires only the flick of a finger.

A long, long way from sticks and stones, which allowed plenty of time for both second thoughts and defensive responses.

[TimeSnowDemos]

26. They don't

Obviously.

Only America has these issues and only America has more than twice as many guns as adults.

[lunasun]

28. Remember how people would never go to bars anymore if they banned smoking in the venues

Crowded enough there are still places hard to get in to...all of them here are non smoking now.
So many would not be going to restaurants either if cigs banned was the prediction
The argument it can't change is just lame

I heard a guy yesterday on the radio . He wants a police officer at every door of every school all the time and more metal detectors across the whole state for all grades but he didn't support any gun control cuz constitushuuunn
Pissed me off we are suppose to spend so much of our tax dollars to support thier hobby gone wild and unregulated and so what? Police at every mall, park playground , outside high school sport event , theatre etc ?

Unfortunately there are areas that already require those detectors and we need to work more on decreasing guns in those areas not spending money increasing this kind of environment everywhere

[KY_EnviroGuy]

33. I'm guessing there was no talk on that radio show of addressing...

the underlying mental issues driving most of these events. We'll never get any of them to admit that ever-increasing stress on both individuals and families caused by many factors might just need some serious attention.

Divisiveness, out of control free-market capitalism and unwarranted fears stoked by right-wing media, for example - are all screwing with our collective sanity.

.......

[SCantiGOP]

30. The "guns don't kill people" logic

Makes as much sense as saying Ebola doesn’t kill people, people kill people.
Cause you need an infected person to pass on the infection, so people are the real causal agent here.

[ChoppinBroccoli]

34. Whenever A RW'er Goes On About "The Opioid Epidemic"............

............I always make sure to remind them that drugs don't kill people; PEOPLE kill people.

[erronis]

31. Just my observation: hack89 disappears from the conversations when confronted.

It suggests lots of reasons why nothing will work but no suggestions for improvements.

It almost seems like it is saying that gun violence is unavoidable.

Live (or die) with it.

As many have pointed out, death by NRA is not usual in many other countries.