General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDarker Nights as Some Cities Turn Off the Lights
This is nothing new, given the perilous financial status of so many of our cities, and I know light pollution is a serious problem, but is this any solution?
Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/30/us/cities-cost-cuttings-leave-residents-in-the-dark.html?pagewanted=all
Note that earlier in the article it's mention that the city is now operating with only 500 out of its original total of 1,600 streetlights -- 31%!
Wouldn't the saner, safer, shrewder, smarter solution be for the city to float a bond to upgrade their streetlight system to be more energy efficient, and perhaps adaptive (i.e. lights that come on only we needed, or can be varied in brightness)? Oh, I know, that would require raising taxes, and we can't have that -- not even when it's a matter of safety.
Skittles
(152,965 posts)very unusual for me (I live in a metroplex)
arcane1
(38,613 posts)salvorhardin
(9,995 posts)Not to mention that Highland Park allowed DTE to take away 2/3 of the streetlights that the people of Highland Park had paid for. Gone. Not just turned off. Gone! That's insanity.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Putting electricity in the hands of a corporation (run by a millionaire who views the delivery of electricity as a means of increasing his stock price, as required by law) is not the most cost-efficient way to do it.
limpyhobbler
(8,244 posts)we can't afford to keep the lights on. and don't drink the water.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)How much cheaper would electricity be if the people of Michigan didn't have to deal with shit like this:
In December 2011, the non-partisan organization Public Campaign criticized DTE Energy for spending $4.37 million on lobbying and not paying any taxes during 2008-2010, instead getting $17 million in tax rebates, despite making a profit of $2.5 billion, and increasing executive pay by 62% to $14.3 million in 2010 for its top 5 executives.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTE_Energy
And you're absolutely right, this is the standard effect of globalization and privatization. In the case of Michigan, the only thing missing from the equation is an IMF loan.
limpyhobbler
(8,244 posts)while shutting off streetlights?
That's not surprising, that's what a private company is supposed to do.
I'm not from Michigan and don't know the details. But it sounds like DTE is a government sanctioned private monopoly for profit.
I don't see why any area should have to be under a private monopoly for a vital utility like electric or water. It would be more efficient to get rid of the private leeches, and reclaim all that tax-free profit for the community.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)And water as well.
And natural resources.
And health care.
Etc
limpyhobbler
(8,244 posts)GReedDiamond
(5,299 posts)girl gone mad
(20,634 posts)This crisis is extremely deep. Cities and states have been hard-hit by the economic downturn. It would be awesome if we had some federal revenue-sharing programs in place right now to help mitigate these issues. We don't. Austerity is coming.
salvorhardin
(9,995 posts)Is cannibalizing essential city services really the solution though? Otherwise, you're right that this is the kind of thing where economic stimulus would ideally be applied (and ideally paying local labor to do the upgrade).
Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)Use solar panels for the street lights? We have call boxes in Ca that run on solar. Make them motion sensor on some streets.
salvorhardin
(9,995 posts)And there are a number of companies selling solar street lighting. I'm not sure Michigan is the best place to implement that though -- too much snow, and the panels would have to be kept clear of snow.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Mnemosyne
(21,363 posts)salvorhardin
(9,995 posts)Last edited Tue Jan 3, 2012, 12:08 PM - Edit history (1)
I didn't know they had converted I-86's lights to solar. IIRC, 86 runs from Buffalo area through to the Catskills -- that's some mighty snowy country. How do they keep the panels clear of snow?
I agree it should be done much more.
Mnemosyne
(21,363 posts)if these lights are grid-tied or independent, harder than I thought. Will let you know when I find the info, and about the snow removal, I'm curious too.
I will be putting up a three turbine hybrid system on my roof in the Spring. I am still researching it to find best quality/cost and reputable dealer and installers in my area.
I am so hoping the prices will drop soon to help everyone acquire alternative energy for their homes.
salvorhardin
(9,995 posts)napoleon_in_rags
(3,991 posts)That's the scary part. Maybe they are waiting for the futuristic lowest energy solution (I am talking distant future here) where people to just put on glasses that will render the scene for them without street lights, based on low energy positioning and scanning tech...
Makes me remember, I heard SETI was seaching for ETs by looking for light and radio noise coming from distant planets. Given our energy situation, I wonder if ETs would even be wasting the energy to pour a bunch of light and radio out into the sky...
Arctic Dave
(13,812 posts)Street lights we're something that was waaay overbuilt to begin with. There is absolutely no reason to light up streets like it was noon, all night long, on streets that are rarely used.
Heywood J
(2,515 posts)It would seem to me that there would be a field day if someone were hit near where a streetlight was located before this deal.
Christmas lights. Yeah, that's the solution to fears of crime on darkened streets... in August.
joshcryer
(62,265 posts)...turned off.
ThoughtCriminal
(14,011 posts)Edweird
(8,570 posts)The surface street lights are still on. The county (Jefferson) just filed for bankruptcy.