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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsClapper tells Maddow the president is illegitimate: Trump would not be president if not for Russia
Last edited Wed May 23, 2018, 12:07 PM - Edit history (2)
James Clapper tells Rachel Maddow the president is illegitimate: Trump would not be president if not for Russia
https://www.rawstory.com/2018/05/james-clapper-tells-rachel-maddow-president-illegitimate-trump-not-president-not-russia/
Now that he is out of government service and a private citizen, James Clapper is ready to say what he really thinks on that front and what he saw happen, she said.
While quoting his book directly, Maddow broke down the Russian investigation into the presidential election.
Clapper says he has no doubt that Russia swung the elections.
snip
He served as director of national intelligence for 6 1/2 years, including for the duration of the Russian attack on the 2016 election. He says that Donald Trump would not be president if not for that attack, Maddow said.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=XRXWVJsDdAQ
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Clapper
"Clapper became Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency in November 1991 under George H. W. Bush."
Link to tweet
PaulX2
(2,032 posts)Trump is under investigation. FBI says nothing. Hillary. FBI blabbers garbage.
shraby
(21,946 posts)were told about Russia's involvement.
calimary
(81,220 posts)Shoulda said a big fat FUCK YOU! and gone out and done it ANYWAY.
Roland99
(53,342 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)allegations that Comey cost the election.
I can post cites showing you that Hillary was winning in 12 out of 13 polls right before the election. Never happened before that someone who was doing so well by the polls lost. THAT'S why everyone was shocked.
Comey cost her a bit, but nothing to indicate enough to lose.
If you read up on this matter, you will know why the FBI didn't say anything about the Russia investigation (it hadn't been publicly announced; what we knew, we knew from leaks). AND it wasn't an investigation of Trump. AND it was an ongoing investigation, unlike Clinton's, which had been concluded.
StevieM
(10,500 posts)triron
(21,999 posts)SunSeeker
(51,550 posts)They initially dropped 4 points, but Hillary inched back up 2 points, before running out of time. And that doesn't even count all the Dem voters who decided to just stay home because of the repeated FBI Hillary bashing. This drop off was of course most devastating in the swing states where it was already very close.
StevieM
(10,500 posts)of Vladimir Putin's shenanigans.
SunSeeker
(51,550 posts)Response to SunSeeker (Reply #25)
StevieM This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to StevieM (Reply #26)
SunSeeker This message was self-deleted by its author.
StevieM
(10,500 posts)I am not downplaying the importance of Russian interference. I am simply saying that it seems clear to me that James Comey and the FBI dominated that race from start to finish.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)keithbvadu2
(36,783 posts)Trump supporters celebrated their victory.
"It turns out that United Russia won the elections in America," Viktor Nazarov, the governor of Omsk, Russia, declared in a radio interview.
http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/news/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/news/world/make-russia-great-again-if-trump-lifts-sanctions-putin-could-finally-establish-his-country-as-an-equal-to-u-s&pubdate=2016-12-03
Botany
(70,501 posts)Russian politician says on live TV that Russia stole U.S. presidency.
https://www.axios.com/russian-politician-says-on-live-tv-that-russia-stole-us-presidency-1513305421-105c4fa4-70e6-4fa4-98c9-eb90e35987ad.html
Russian politician Vyacheslav Nikonov, a member of the Duma, said U.S. "intelligence missed it when Russian intelligence stole the president of the United States." He made the remarks on a Russian panel show, "Sunday Evening with Vladimir Solovyov."
The episode centered on the U.S.' diminishing power on the world stage and the resulting chaos, The Hill reports. University of Virginia professor Allen Lynch told The Hill that Nikonov's statement was directed at the idea that the U.S. must be losing power if it can't uphold the integrity of its own electoral system.
Julia Davis, who monitors Russian media, first noted the comments on her Twitter account last night.
keithbvadu2
(36,783 posts)Botany
(70,501 posts)Russia acting under orders of Vlad Putin interfered in our elections with 2 goals
1) Helping Donald Trump in the election.
2) Hurting Hillary Clinton in the election.
Both Senators Burr (R) & Warner (D) of the Senate Intel Committee are on record
as saying that the agree w/those conclusions.
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I live for the day when Trump and company are treated as the treasonous un-American bastard
that he is and people will not even want to sit by him.
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)shraby
(21,946 posts)if anything was said.
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)all things in DC are highly political. Comey knew he would catch a ton of shit from repubs if he didn't say anything about the weiner emails. he folded.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)See my above post for the facts. You can have your opinion, but not your own facts. The FACT is that she was practically a shoe-in right before the election (post-Comey).
The reason everyone was shocked at Trump "winning" was because she was ahead in 12 out of 13 polls.
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)byronius
(7,394 posts)They will not succeed.
And the cost to them will be enormous. We will alter their reality as they have altered ours.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Trump was elected by both those citizens who voted for him and those who didn't vote for Hillary Clinton. Not Russia.
And here's another:
WE are Russia's big enemy and big targets. Not Republicans. Electing Democrats was OUR job. WE lost not just the presidency but the senate, possibly the house, and many state governments because too many of US failed.
Ignorance and other personal weaknesses are what Russia exploits. And they're big experts on identifying and exploiting personal weaknesses. Knowledge and adequate standards for our own behavior are the weapons that defeat them.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Do you think Russia stopped at bots and fake news? No, Russia doesn't stop at anything. Easy to hack some of the those districts in purple areas and flip the results. They were only flipped in a few districts.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Clapper said Ruskies could have swayed enough votes to cause Clinton to lose in the 3 key states by 80K votes.
Of course, sore primary losers who stayed home or voted for opposition, people who stayed home because they thought Clinton would win, Jack Pine Radical types, voters swayed by Comey or lies, etc. could have caused the loss.
triron
(21,999 posts)Your response assumes voters decisions don't depend on information
they are receiving it seems. Why do you think drug companies spend so
much money on advertising?
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)though? It's not that we don't all know that we're routinely lied to, because we do.
We live in the information age, Triron. Some Democrats chose lies because they liked them, many because they provided the excuse they wanted and needed to behave badly. And that's what I mean about using our weaknesses against us.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)knowledge and incentive to seek the truth were bombarded with Russian fake stories about what a devil Hillary was.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)I live in the rural deep south and it's very...rural deep south down here. Same for Arkansas, where our daughter now raises her family. We've both been told by people that they'd never met a liberal.
Russia especially targeted registered Democrats and independents who normally vote Democrat.
Using social media, they identified and fed personal weaknesses, providing lies to feed things like ignorance, lack of conviction and resentment, and they alarmed and "disillusioned" a small but critical percentage into mostly not voting. We're not angels, and with encouragement constantly fed directly into personal furnaces, some voted third party or Trump our of spite and resentment. Likely most believed they could safely do so because for a year prior the news had been discussing how far ahead we were and how big our wins would be. But they still ultimately made themselves fatally useful idiots.
We'll get Russia eventually. But for now we have to stop this problem by fixing ourselves, and that starts with accepting blame, not making excuses for it. That's an exploitable, fatal weakness.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)on. It sounds like your title says one thing and your message just the opposite.
I think we will never have a quantified answer...how many people were affected by fake ads and influenced by trolls to not vote for Hillary.(among other hacker goals) A documentarian could search for these people and interview them ..but how likely would it be that they would admit it...or even be self aware enough to recognize that it happened. Might be more interesting to poll people in detail about specific issues they had against her to see how many were never true.
By admitting Facebook ads affected your vote you would also be admitting that you don't research and seek out truth.
So we will never know the number but a rational person can conclude it did change the vote. The beauty of this kind of influence campaign...it's effect can't be proven since votes are confidential.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Laura. Beyond doubt this era is being intensively studied, and I'm looking forward to reading some of the best regarded histories, written after rather than from in the middle.
Came back for something that just occurred to me: This is the information age. Data gathering and analysis aren't only done by inimical forces bent on defeating electorates. The study of humans is already becoming far, far, far more fact based than was ever even imagined possible before.
rolypolychloe
(56 posts)Trump is the Bastard of the United States and Pence is the Vice Bastard of the United States.
BobTheSubgenius
(11,563 posts)Second `Trump should be happy`that he`s breathing free air, for now, and is still wealthy, for now.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)he is not given the respect/awe/credence he deserves. Sure there are many more like him who are watching their whole world crumble before their eyes.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Clapper did not tell Maddow the president is illegitimate.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)At no point did he say the president is illegitimate.
100 percent Raw Story falsehood.