Ireland's abortion debate has already succeeded in shifting my position

[niyad]

Ireland’s abortion debate has already succeeded in shifting my position

I’m adamantly pro-choice, but was ambivalent about liberalising UK laws. The Irish referendum has changed all that

?w=620&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&s=9eff41fda86f746d6f74e8217770d9f8
A yes campaign banner for Ireland’s abortion referendum on the repeal of the eighth amendment. Photograph: Barry Cronin/AFP/Getty Images

They came from Los Angeles, from Bangkok, from Sydney, from Buenos Aires; from all four corners of the globe. One woman said her plane ticket was a birthday present from her boyfriend, who knew how much it meant to her. Others are funded by student unions, family whip-rounds, expats who have been away too long to take part. Young Irish women and men are coming home to vote in Ireland’s abortion referendum, many wearing their hearts on the sleeves of their repeal jumpers. They swap knowing glances in airports, proudly tweeting and Instagramming as they go. The #HomeToVote phenomenon is an extraordinarily moving, powerful sight. For what cause would you fly halfway round the world and back again? Only one that cuts to the heart of who you are, how you seek to live.

Repealing the eighth amendment would be seismic enough, since it’s what guarantees the unborn a right to life even when the mother has been raped, is practically a child herself, or is carrying a wanted baby with such severe abnormalities it cannot survive. But this referendum has become a public test of so much more; of a woman’s place in society more generally, of a scandal-ridden Catholic church’s moral authority, even of shifting dynamics between the sexes in the #TimesUp era.

?w=620&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&s=56ae9e0a594556ea1af78bdcf786eb9b Irish people in London attend a rally for the yes campaign ahead of Ireland’s abortion referendum. Photograph: David Levene for the Guardian
. . . . .
We who watch from abroad – fingers crossed for yes – know we have no right to interfere in Ireland’s decision. We don’t want to presume, yet cannot look away: it’s too visceral. You don’t need to have had an abortion yourself to be profoundly grateful that the right not to give birth against your will exists, a backstop to every other freedom women have. Besides, the Irish vote feels like an omen, a sign of the way the global winds are blowing. Rather like the teen movement for gun control in America, it’s tempting to see the yes movement as part of a millennial blowback against gathering reactionary forces – although older women raised in darker days, when supposedly “fallen” women endured grim punishment in mother and baby homes, are often as anxious for change as their daughters. But there may be more practical implications for Britain too.

. . . . .

To be clear: a vote for repeal would allow Ireland’s parliament to consider reforming abortion law, but doesn’t guarantee this. The proposals aren’t for no-questions-asked abortion on demand, and they are not, despite what some no campaigners say, wildly more liberal than British law. But they are different: stricter in some ways (abortion would be legal beyond 12 weeks of pregnancy, and up to 24, only given a risk to the mother’s life, or serious harm to her health), and looser in one. Under the Irish proposals, a woman wouldn’t need to give a reason for seeking a termination before 12 weeks. She’d simply need a doctor to confirm her stage of pregnancy, and then undergo a 72-hour cooling-off period to reflect on the decision. In Britain abortion is legal up to 24 weeks only provided two doctors agree it’s justified on grounds including threat to the mother’s health, or to that of any existing children; serious foetal abnormality; risk to the mother’s life; or grave permanent injury to her.

. . . . .



https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/24/ireland-abortion-debate-pro-choice-uk-laws-referendum

[Solly Mack]

1. K&R

[snowybirdie]

2. Good article

But p!ease don't say Ireland is part of the UK. That's a very sensitive issue for Irishmen. They fought long and hard to be a Republic.

[TimeSnowDemos]

3. I wondered

How long it would take for someone to say that!

Suer half the Brits I've met think the same... even one I know that LIVED in Dublin.

Then again, UK schools aren't so great these days.

[moriah]

5. Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see that?

The UK and Ireland obviously have different laws, and the part about "Liberalizing UK Law" was a sub-headline written by the British woman writing the article.

The British woman writing it specifically acknowledges she's watching from abroad.

But is also acknowledging her own laws aren't as liberal as Ireland's could be as far as first-trimester abortion. No need to make an excuse like the law left over from 1967 says.

Now, it's possible that if the UK liberalizes its own policies to allow on-demand first-trimester abortion, the NHS will only pay for it if they use a justification under the 1967 law, etc.

But just in case it wasn't clear because of formatting, the OP was posting like a Latest Breaking News article, with no commentary from themselves.

[mopinko]

4. pregnancy/giving birth always risks grave permanent injury to the mother.

women still die as a result. your body is never the same.

[niyad]

6. people seem to forget that when they say, "well, just give it up for adoption". gestational

diabetes, a whole host of possible complications--F*** the woman-haters.

[mopinko]

7. we are just beginning to figure out the impact on immune systems

of women.
we have known for a long time about rh incompatibility. (and suppose this is you- the baby you give up is a risk to all your subsequent children)
but research is turning up much more subtle changes. my personal pet theory is that fibro can be fired up by pregnancy, explaining it's prevalence in women. i also think it can affect subsequent pregnancies. my last 3 kids all have it, even the boy.

[niyad]

8. so very true. and, in addition, we have one of the poorer rates of maternal mortaility

rates in the world.

[mopinko]

9. yeah, i always want to scream at these people- WOMEN DIE.

they DIE ferchrissakes. and the same good old boys do little about that, too.

[niyad]

10. we are, after all, only women. not like we are human, or important or anything.

remember that scene in "the cardinal"?

[mopinko]

11. never saw it.

but yeah, who cares if we fuck up the incubator. we have more.