Mueller has a dead man switch. If they start firing people they'll press Send on pile of indictments

[kpete]

Mueller has a dead man switch. If they start firing people they’ll press a Send on a pile of indictments.

On @chrislhayes just now we learned that Mueller has a dead man switch. If they start firing people they’ll press a Send on a pile of indictments.


at around 8:35 minutes...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=m_GwWG6foq4

Link to tweet

[woodsprite]

1. Why would they let that tidbit of info out? Wouldn't it serve better to keep it quiet? n/t

[C_U_L8R]

3. I think it's pundit guesswork

but the pundit had worked with Mueller at some point.

Many here have guessed the same thing for a long time.

[certainot]

50. yep all it is is guesswork. in a way letting it out may be

preventive. the guy who pulls the switch on all of this is a fucking idiot and insane and if he gets the message and thinks its true he may hold off, believing in alternatives in which he's got a better chance to beat it. crap like spygate - which is a big thing in talk radio and fox lands

[Wednesdays]

6. Look at it as though both sides have nukes

"Mutually Assured Destruction" is an excellent deterrent.

[Demsrule86]

24. As a warning.

[RestoreAmerica2020]

39. Why announce it? Doesn't sound as if it's coming out of Mueller's office

...if so, file the damn indictments already!

[Gothmog]

2. I hope that this is accurate

[Eliot Rosewater]

4. Hope so. The problem I can't get out of my head is what happens

when SIXTY MILLION very dumb, mean people decide that rump is their fuhrer and no justice can come to him?

[0rganism]

7. sixty million very dumb, mean, ARMED people

i suspect every damn one of them has at least 2 firearms they call their own

[Bernardo de La Paz]

10. Some are very dangerous and may kill, but almost all are talk and no action. . . . nt

[0rganism]

14. "almost all" is almost reassuring: 1% of sixty million is a mere 600000 dangerous psychopaths

certainly preferable to 60000000 dangerous psychopaths, but still unsettling

[dameatball]

20. That's okay. I have seven.....:) Crappy shot though.

[brewens]

28. A smaller percentage own most of the guns. Most of his supporters that have guns, probably just

have the ordinary couple of hunting guns. The guys with the AR-15's. Those aren't much good unless they have their cousins and kids to hide behind. They won't be coming after anyone.

[spanone]

29. they will have to be reminded that we are a democracy that exists due to rule of law.

and they can participate or not

[Mr.Bill]

46. That would be a problem if they were the only ones who are armed.

But they aren't. Their downfall will be assuming no liberals or Democrats own guns.

[tazkcmo]

49. Or police

Or US Army.

[Mr.Bill]

53. As soon as one of them so much as pointed a gun at the Police or Military,

it would be over for all of them.

[TheRealNorth]

57. You're assuming

that half the police or military won't join them. That's what all this anthem ass kissing is about. Of course, disrespecting the sacrifice of John Kerry, Max Cleland, and John McCain is perfectly okay with these "Patriots"

[Mr.Bill]

58. The police and/or military is not going to join a movement to

violently overthrow the government. Call it an assumption if you like, My opinion is it's a certainty.

These people are not going to throw their careers and lives away to start murdering Americans.

[GulfCoast66]

51. Yep. I see it all the time.

Their personality is so wrapped up in their guns, religion and politics they just can’t accept that liberals are also religious, armed and political.

Ok. I am not religious. But got the other 2 goin on.

We liberals are not defined by our guns.

[vlyons]

15. Think different thoughts

Start creating in your mind a visual image of the NYTimes headlines after Mueller's report goes public. Imagine pages and pages of newsprint listing all the charges specifically cited against Trump. Visualize the new Dem Speaker of the House next Jan standing before a microphone and announcing a new Dem chair of the judicial committee. Then visualize CNN video of the new Dem judicial committee voting to recommend impeachment to the house. That's what I see.

[Eliot Rosewater]

17. LOve it

[Bernardo de La Paz]

21. +1 Manifest by envisioning. Not blind to risks, but keeps eyes on the prize. No mysticism involved.

[MGKrebs]

35. The line between mysticism and reality is blurry.

There is not much difference between a Wiccan spell casting and the practice of writing down your personal goals!

[fierywoman]

23. Love it!

[Perseus]

27. It will not end well

Many people I have spoken to also expect that it will end with a lot of violence, that is what trump has been promoting since the campaign, and that is what dictators feel is their way of staying in power.

People like trump who have no concept of consequences don't care what happens they are unable to see ahead of themselves, and in all truths, they don't have a soul that could lead them to try to prevent the violence that may awaken when they disclose the multiple proofs of the massive corruption within the trump family, those close to him and the gop.

I hate to say it, but I too feel that it will not end well, I have seen it before, people like trump and friends always refuse to leave in a peaceful way.

What I feel is more worrisome is the fact that the military has been very quiet, and that one of those I know who is a high ranking officer seems to think trump has a plan and that it is a good plan, he is one of those who thinks the USA is "being respected once again" even though the whole world is laughing at us...when you have the military thinking that way, and they who have the power to destroy and kill a lot of people, that is very worrisome.

[lunatica]

32. They've already decided

And 5,999,999 of them will do nothing.

[Ligyron]

36. That's exactly right, they won't do shit.

Besides, who would they get "violent" with precisely? They'd just run around randomly shooting people who look like "libruls"?

The folks some people here are worried about - the fake 'murican patriots" would be killed almost instantly.

[TheRealNorth]

67. In Wisconsin

They got lists

http://iverifytherecall.com/

[Ligyron]

68. Pure intimindation with no follow through.

They know people who are liberal tend to be non-violent so this will scare them. But a few people who are liberal are quite familiar with violence and capable of it when necessary. The later will look after the former if the situation calls for it.

[cilla4progress]

37. better than the

status quo...

[ecstatic]

63. If they fight us, we fight back. Period.

We'd have no choice. I dare them to try to flex their wings here. I'm in a blue area where almost everyone is (legally and in some cases illegally) packing so...

[DUgosh]

5. Fired Insurance

[H2O Man]

8. Recommended.

I note that some people have correctly asked about the sourcing for this information, which is being hinted at by other news sources. It's not from Team Mueller, of course, but is still valid. It is safe to say it has come out from a couple sources close to the Mueller investigation, though. For example, a source in the DOJ, the FBI in Virginia, and possibly some court employees who are aware of a few sealed indictments which were filed months ago.

[coeur_de_lion]

61. Looking forward

to your next OP. I'm wondering if there is any reason we should be hopeful about this investigation's outcome!

[H2O Man]

64. Yes.

I'm actually working on it now. Things are good. It's getting better all the time.

[coeur_de_lion]

65. thrilled to hear it

[Bernardo de La Paz]

9. Good news. I've suspected he would and posted my thoughts a few months ago. . . nt

[Qutzupalotl]

11. Here's a link with a fuller explanation.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/04/21/robert-mueller-russia-probe-protection-218065

Sealed indictments are routinely employed by federal prosecutors in sensitive investigations, particularly when a public indictment might have a negative effect on an ongoing investigation. To carry out this strategy, Mueller would request that the already empaneled grand jury—the one considering matters related to Russian interference in the election—issue criminal charges against Trump himself. If the grand jury were to find probable cause for the charges to proceed, whatever they might be, a magistrate judge would then decide whether the indictment could remain secret. If the judge were to determine that it could, the charges would then remain hidden from public view until the criminal defendant is taken into custody or released on bail.

If Trump were to fire Mueller, an already filed sealed indictment would outlast Mueller’s tenure. A sealed indictment can only be dismissed by a judge, meaning Trump cannot rid himself of a legal headache simply by terminating the special counsel. A sealed indictment would also ensure that the statute of limitations for crimes Trump might be charged with would not expire. This leaves open the possibility of Trump being tried in the future.

FWIW, this squares with what people like @teapainusa and @truefactsstated have been saying for months.

[DinahMoeHum]

16. Born-To-Run-The-Numbers has said this as well.

http://www.borntorunthenumbers.com/2018/03/in-case-of-firing-pull-here.html

[onenote]

30. Somewhat misleading statement about the dismissal of an indictment

Yes, while it is true that, under the Federal rules, the government may dismiss an indictment, information, or complaint only "with leave of court,” courts have, in Mueller's own words, "only highly limited discretion to deny a government motion" to dismiss an indictment. Indeed, Mueller sought and received leave to dismiss in part the indictment of Gates in the Eastern District, citing case law holding that the court must grant the government’s motion to dismiss the indictment unless the court concludes that to grant it would be clearly contrary to manifest public interest, determined by whether the prosecutor’s motion to dismiss was made in bad faith, with bad faith limited to circumstances in which the prosecutor accepted a bribe, of acted out of personal dislike of the victim, or dissatisfaction with the jury impaneled to hear the case.

In other words, if Mueller was filed and there were sealed indictments pending, the government could move to dismiss those indictments and it would be highly unusual, absence evidence of the kind of bad faith described above, for the court not to grant the motion. Courts generally don't force prosecutors to prosecute cases that prosecutors have decided not to pursue.

So the speculation that Mueller has a bunch of sealed indictments sitting around as a back up plan is pretty far fetched.

[lagomorph777]

34. Excellent info - thanks for that!

[Demsrule86]

42. Excellent article. I think that Mueller would do it if only to preserve the rule of law against a

criminal president.

[Duppers]

60. 👏

No doubts here.

[lame54]

12. Dr. Strangelove

[bucolic_frolic]

13. It makes sense

the public has imperfect information on the investigation, you have to let your intuition and sense of justice run to get a feel for what might happen

[erronis]

18. But if the info networks (internet/radio/tv) are all shut down or put into full propaganda mode

How would we know what are in the indictments?

Will the federal organizations that could actually prosecute these indictments be able to function? Would there be a "national emergency - everyone stay in your homes"?

Would state governments try to function? Would there be some indictments that are prosecutable by states?

Would the armed services listen to the dictatorship?

OK - paranoia here. But I've heard that something like this has played out several times in recent history.

[TheRealNorth]

59. At that point

we are pretty much talking about a breakdown of Democracy, and at that point people will have to decide for themselves if they are willing to risk dying on their feet or live on their knees.

[NewJeffCT]

19. I hope Hayes' source is correct

However, without confirmation elsewhere, I'd take it with a grain of salt.

[onenote]

22. Unsourced speculation that almost certainly is wrong

It just doesn't work that way.

[RandomAccess]

38. But educated guesses -- and speculation very much work that way

and are OFTEN right.

[onenote]

41. See Post #30

Which explains why this is an implausible scenario.

[RandomAccess]

48. I read your comment as a GENERAL statement, not

an opinion on this specific thing. I stand by my GENERAL response, tho not as it applies to this OP.

[triron]

25. Louise Mensch predicted this a year ago.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

52. Then it's probably bullshit.

[Wwcd]

54. Then it is correct. Thanks to the remarkable LM & her Team Patriot.

Every one of them & a few more have said this long ago.

I believe Mueller has well covered his work. His team knows the mob they're dealing with, they've brought down this level of corruption before.

[onenote]

55. So explain how this works.

The President fires Mueller (directly/indirectly). Once he's fired, he can't do anything with respect to the sealed indictments. He can't file something with the court asking that they be unsealed because he has no authority to do so.

So the folks under him give that order? Well, that's assuming that they have the authority to do so and don't need the approval of someone above them.

And even if the order is given, exactly what stops the government from moving to voluntarily dismiss some or even all of the indictments. While the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure (which I doubt Louise Mensch has ever read) require the court to approve a government motion to dismiss an indictment, the case law solidly concludes that courts have very little discretion to deny such a motion, in significant part because it puts the judiciary in the position of usurping the traditional separation between prosecutorial discretion (an executive branch function) and neutral judicial decision-making AFTER a case is tried.

Put more simply, if Mueller has filed sealed indictments (and I don't know if he has, but have my doubts, at least as to how many/against what targets), it's not because they are some sort of protection against his getting fired.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

72. OneNote, this is very confusing - perhaps you can expand a bit.

(asking as a non-legal type)

1. When you say "the government moving to dismiss", who in government would that be and why would they want to dismiss indictments?

2. It seem strange to a layman that if a prosecutor and a grand jury investigates a serious crime and creates an indictment, that the criminal could not be charged, or the crime go untried just because, say, that a prosecutor suddenly died or was fired. It would, instead seem logical that the case would be handed over to others to proceed with it as normal.

3. Is what you're saying, then only applicable to indictments that have not been unsealed?

[Uncle Joe]

26. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread kpete

[zaj]

31. Not a fact... speculation by the guest

I saw this. Its (possibly informed) speculation. And was presented as such. This tweet makes it sound much more factual than it was said.

[lagomorph777]

33. Holy shit. That is the exact term I have using to predict that for a year now!

I love it!

[Chakaconcarne]

40. That sounds somewhat like an attempt to make this partisan....

If it's speculation, we shouldn't even be discussing it as these things tend to walk, then run quickly out of control.

[Demsrule86]

43. It is fine to discuss it... I believe no grand jury in the world would fail to indict Trump for his

many wrongdoings.

[Demsrule86]

44. It is partisan...but the GOP made it so by refusing to reign in the president.

He should be impeached and convicted.

[ananda]

45. What's stopping them now?

nt

[former9thward]

47. What fake news internet BS.

Made up by someone who has no idea how U.S. Attorneys and the DOJ operate.

[Iggo]

56. I hope so. (n/t)

[ecstatic]

62. I hope so, and I hope that despite what Ghouliani said, drump

is included in the list of indictments. One can only hope.

[gristy]

66. Mueller has a dead man switch. If they start firing people they'll press Send on pile of indictments

A fifth time for good measure!

[Ilsa]

70. This was discussed on Morning Joe, but superficially.

They had a clip, and I guess it was from the Chris Hayes show. They only showed a clip of the guest talking about the Dead Man Switch.

[Honeycombe8]

71. Seems to me if there were indictments ready to go, he'd push the switch now. ???

Or maybe he'd be sending indictments with the Dead Man Switch that aren't quite ready, but might stand up, in the event of an assault on the investigation?

I like to think there is a Dead Man Switch, though. Could be true. Mueller seems to be a methodical planner.

[zentrum]

73. I know Mueller is smart

…enough to have lots of cyber attack protection. Like, lots. Right?

Ellsberg hid his information with five different friends. Mueller must have some system like that.

[Upthevibe]

74. Yep....I read a couple of months ago

(I don't remember who wrote it or where I read it) that an option could be for information to be sent to the media....