Editorial: Bernie Sanders Keeps Fighting the Good Fight

[Donkees]

Saturday, May 26, 2018

Excerpt:

After eight years as mayor of Burlington, 16 years as Vermont’s sole representative in the U.S. House of Representatives and nearly 12 years as a U.S. senator, Sanders’ outrage is undiminished when it comes to the struggles of working class families and the growing divisions in society between the few who possess extreme wealth and the many who do not. Indeed, his announcement last week that he intends to seek a third six-year term in the Senate was thematically of a piece with all that has come before: “Our struggle to create a government which represents all of us and not just the 1 percent — a government based on the principles of economic, social, racial and environmental justice — must continue,” the 76-year-old senator said.

And, as he did in 2006 and 2012, Sanders intends to seek the Democratic nomination in the primary, respectfully decline it if he wins, and run as an independent in the general election, meanwhile accepting the hearty endorsement of the Vermont Democratic Party. Thus are accommodations made to finesse the senator’s continued insistence on being identified as an independent, though he caucuses with the Democrats in the Senate.

What has changed remarkably, though, is the degree to which people outside Vermont take notice of what an independent “democratic socialist” (that’s small ‘d’, small ‘s’) from a tiny, deep-blue state thinks. When, for example, Sanders released a video last week calling out Amazon and its fabulously rich CEO Jeff Bezos over low wages and exhausting working conditions for employees of its fulfillment centers, the company responded the same day with a defense of its policies and an invitation to Sanders to visit. Sanders in turn accepted the invitation with thanks and added for good measure, “I remain deeply concerned about Amazon, an enormously profitable corporation, paying workers wages that are so low that they are forced to depend on federal programs like Medicaid, food stamps and public housing for survival.”

This new-found influence stems, of course, from Sanders’ out-of-left-field bid to capture the 2016 Democratic presidential nomination. Although he did not ultimately succeed, he secured a remarkable 43 percent of the vote in Democratic primaries across the country, motivated millions of young people to engage in politics, shook up (and angered) the party’s establishment, and, astonishingly enough, was transformed at an advanced age into a gruff, white-haired political rock star who now requires, as in his home state, no other identification than a single name — an exalted status reserved for a relative few in all fields of endeavor.

http://www.vnews.com/Editorial-The-Inimitable-Bernie-Sanders-17757331

[Demsrule86]

1. 'Respectfully decline' hah

I respectfully decline to vote for him in the 20 primary should he decide to run.

[kstewart33]

101. Bernie will run, but I doubt he will be a major factor as he was in 2016.

Too old, too great a sense of "been there, done that," other younger Democrat figures will be running, and among the Democrats, a great belief that above all else, we must beat Trump, and Bernie is way-too left to appeal to moderates and center-left Dems.

But above all else, 2020 is still a ways away. And Jane's troubles continue with the FBI investigation.

And of course, if Sanders refuses to release his tax returns (and many years of returns), it won't sit well, not this time.

[Demsrule86]

140. I hope you are right. I certainly won't vote for Sen. Sanders in a primary. I did last time, and I

suppose that some here find that surprising, but that ship has sailed. I will vote and work my ass off for any Democrat who wins the general and would support Sander if he were the nominee also...but I hope he is not.

[kstewart33]

158. Me, too.

I am so hoping that we turn to younger Democratic candidates. Bernie's time has passed, and he is increasingly looking like he is willing to risk a Trump victory in 2020 if he can get the nomination.

[Demsrule86]

159. This makes me like him even less...how could he risk this if he truly cares about the policies he

talks about because if Trump wins again the fat lady sings for the progressive movement.

[kstewart33]

173. Bingo.

There is definitely a "me above all" sense about Bernie.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

179. Totally agree.

He lost the last shred when he put down Democrats about a month ago. I love the message but I no longer love Bernie Sanders. If we are going to elect an older man...JOE BIDENS time has come.

[Voltaire2]

3. Bernie!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

26. I second the motion!!

[YessirAtsaFact]

160. Sucks!

[LSFL]

4. lmao!!!

He rigs his election!

[Kurt V.]

5. Fighting the good fight

is what it's all about.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

31. Yup, and no one does it better than Bernie.

My hat's off to him...

[murielm99]

139. WINNING

is what it is all about. He didn't win the primary. His OR backed candidates seldom win. He wins his small, nearly homogenous state, and that is about all. That means he should go back there, listen to his constituents by holding office hours and town halls. Then, he should go to Washington and do his job as a Senator. He can leave the rest of us the hell alone.

We need winners. We need to GOTV. It looks like we are doing just that, with or without BS' criticisms or "help".

I would not like it if my Senators were running all over the countryside. I would be yelling to high heaven.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

6. Trashing this thread

[PubliusEnigma]

7. Inside of a paper bag

[George II]

8. The link says it all: "The-Inimitable-Bernie-Sanders"

[jrthin]

9. Oh pleeeeze! nt

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

39. Yes Bernie, pleeeeze keep fighting the good fight and run in 2020... pleeeeze!

[Exotica]

98. You do realise that if he runs as an indy in 2020 (he will never win the Dem nomination)

that Trump or another Rethug will get elected?

It will happen, if he runs outside the 2 party system. The real base of our party will never nominate him. He is the potential hydrogen bomb of wreckers. He needs to stand down and stay in the Senate.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

107. Who said run as an Indy? Sure as fuck wasn't me...

Indeed, people here want to bar Bernie from running for the Democratic Party nomination... I sure as hell don't want to bar him, which could only drive him to run Independent.

If Bernie does run again in the Democratic primary - who knows? - and loses, so be it... Bernie would not then run Indy and screw the Dems, but would support the Democratic nominee liked he did with Hillary... as would I and most loyal Democrats here.

Where do you get the idea that Bernie is running as an Independent or that anyone should want him to?! I just said please run, as I have on numerous occasions... as a DEMOCRAT!!! (Please don't put words in my mouth, thank you!)

[Me.]

113. Run Again In The Dem Primary?

There will be hell to pay, the chicanery going on in Vermont is bad enough. Run as a Dem, supported by Dema, wins primary, declines and runs as an INdy dumping the Dems. So dishonest but not surprising.

[R B Garr]

121. Yeah, what happened before is in the past.

He has the name recognition now that he joined the Democrats to get, so he shouldn’t be worried about voters having a choice of candidates.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

123. LOL, that's a lot of fiction you're making up... when has Bernie

ever run for President and done that?!... Oh, that's right, NEVER.

Chicanery... good one!!

[Me.]

124. Don't Pretend You Don't Know

that he's doing that with his Senate campaign. And btw given his inclination and track record in Vermont who's to say he wouldn't have done the same exact thing if he had won the primary. The fiction is that he's an honest broker.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

129. So let me get this straight...you're seriously arguing that if Bernie runs in & wins the Democratic

nomination for President in 2020, he's going to turn around and run against BLOTUS as an Independent, just as he and the Vermont Democrat Party have announced in each of Bernie's three runs for U.S. Senate? OKAYYYY, now I've heard just about everything... you've taken Bernie bashing to a whole new level. Congrats!!

I mean, seriously, when did Bernie give even the slightest indication that had he won the Democratic nomation for President in 2016, he would challenge the Repukelican nominee as an Independent?! Just the opposite is true.

And I spose the next thing you're gonna claim is that Bernie, by sposedly doing that - not happening - will lock out all other potential Democratic candidates from challenging him for the 2020 nomination, like other Bernie Bashers have argued here in connection with the VT Senate race?! Too funny!!!

[Me.]

131. I Don't Konw What HE Will Do In The Future

though there is a pattern that could provide one with a guess but you carry on. His past is there for all to see and at least as far as his run for Senate is concerned it has already been established as a giant Con. But keep the blinders on and laugh away. I'll end up having the last one and all your dissembling and pretense won't be able to change it.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

135. There's not a damn thing in Bernie's past to give the slightest indication

of the scenario you posited... indeed, just the opposite. But, now you pretend not to know what Bernie will do... wow, and you're the one talking about dissembling and pretense?!?! That's rich!!

[Me.]

150. Blah, Blah, Blah

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

168. Says the one who has no response... I see your hate for Bernie has no bounds.

[Me.]

169. My Turn

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

180. Still no response I see... says it all.

[Me.]

181. Hah!

[shanny]

10. Go Bernie!

[WhiskeyGrinder]

11. A summer intern got to write their first editorial, I see.

[Me.]

12. Good One

[SMC22307]

55. That sounds like something Kellyanne Conway or Yukon Barbie might say. Kudos.

You disparage the "summer intern," I applaud them for the learning and experience as they embark on their careers.

[mountain grammy]

154. Right on! I applaud them too!

[dansolo]

13. Did Bernie attack Walmart over the same issue?

Walmart has been know to rely on public assistance for their employees because of low wages and little benefits. The has been known for years, but now Bernie wants to make it an issue. And it is awfully strange that Bernie chooses to attack the same target that Trump is. Oh yeah, i forgot, Bernie is trying to appeal to the deplorables. That won't happen if he were to attack Walmart for the same abuses.

[Voltaire2]

14. I'm so glad you asked.

Of course he has. repeatedly.

Here is an excerpt from his response to Trump's state of the union:

What Trump also forgot to tell you is that while the Walton family of Walmart, the wealthiest family in America, and Jeff Bezos of Amazon, the wealthiest person in this country, have never had it so good, many thousands of their employees are forced onto Medicaid, food stamps, and public housing because of the obscenely low wages they are paid. In my view, that’s wrong. The taxpayers of this country should not be providing corporate welfare to the wealthiest families in this country.

http://time.com/5126159/bernie-sanders-sotu-response/

[George II]

16. That's January 2018. "Repeatedly"?

[Voltaire2]

18. Yes it was January. Was that a bad month for attacking Walmart?

Is the google broken for you? Did you have an actual point?

[George II]

23. Once again, "repeatedly"? At least you didn't say "for the last decade (plus)"

[Voltaire2]

24. Down thread you reference another Sanders speech

from 2016. So as you well know, yes “repeatedly”. So what is your actual point?

[Hassin Bin Sober]

27. Even the first two pages of a simple google search yield references in 2013/2014

Add ‘2008’ and you get several references such as this:

[pangaia]

29. Than you....

[SMC22307]

54. The anti-Sanders contingent really needs to get it together.

They know Sanders' supporters aren't like uninformed, brainwashed right-wing media consumers, yet they keep spewing nonsense -- easily disproven nonsense. Maybe something will stick. Kinda like Ghouliani spewing for Drumpf...

You go, little engines that could!

[disillusioned73]

144. "Lil engines that could"..

lol, they do try..

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

28. They have to know this... but hey, anything to bash Bernie, which includes ignoring facts.

[George II]

37. Oh, you know the point.

[Voltaire2]

40. No I really don't know what your point is.

[Uncle Joe]

59. How about longer than the last decade? This is from 2004

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

36. Why Google when you can just invent your own "Poo-gle" reality?

[Hassin Bin Sober]

15. Lol. Only for like the last decade (plus).

[George II]

17. The oldest citation I can find was in 2016.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

21. Your googles must be stuck on 2016

https://bit.ly/2xgj6M4

[George II]

22. And what does this have to do with Sanders presumably fighting Walmart for "the last decade (plus)"?

My Googles are fine. Yours?

Your link, https://bit.ly/2xgj6M4 , yields:

THE BLOG 06/15/2015 08:31 am ET Updated Dec 06, 2017
Helping Seniors Learn New Technology
By Jim T. Miller

Dear Savvy Senior,
What teaching resources can you recommend to help seniors learn how to use computers, tablets and smartphone devices? At age 72, I am interested in joining the technology revolution so I can keep up with my kids and grandkids a little better, but I need help.

—Technology Novice

Dear Novice,
There are lots of different technology teaching tools available to boomers and seniors today, but what’s available to you will depend on where you live. Here are some different places and to look for help.

(more.....)

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

34. Does that mean Bernie won't be getting a seat on the Wal-Mart Board anytime soon?

[m-lekktor]

133. ROFL

[disillusioned73]

145. Oh snap..

[Hortensis]

19. Why doesn't this ruthless maneuver to keep citizens

from having a Democratic candidate to vote for repel more of his zealous supporters? Where is the commitment to voter freedom so many claim to believe in? As for him, some good fight -- against giving voters a chance to vote in the GE for a Democrat.

If Hillary had done this, the howls from his supporters who rejected the Democratic candidate would have joined those from the right, and of course pleased laughter from the Koch types and the Kremlin.

[aikoaiko]

25. Ask the Vermont Democrat Party. They bless it.

I think they do it to send a message to the national party and they are finally listening.

[Hortensis]

49. Some "message." Sanders VOTES Democrat,

a tower of mediocrity hidden in the crowd who are not among the leadership. Half his extremely few times voting off party line are to serve his donors, which his colleagues understand and recognize. None like or respect him. His record of personal achievement is worse than mediocre. Isn't there a clue there?

Where are his supporters' principles? Shouldn't at least his followers here, who looked for what they imagined to be a better leader, expect this one to vote the way he talks to them?

Of course not all Democrats in Vermont like this enormous hypocrisy. How could they? No doubt there are more than just the 30% who actually went and voted against this unprincipled poseur.

Right now, Aikoaiko, Sanders earns only $174,000 a year doing a job you could do easily, just vote with the crowd when you're told it's time to, but the perks and benefits are truly amazing. Understandable if Sanders' top priority is always to keep his job, but what about his followers' priorities?

[aikoaiko]

53. His supporters' priority, as far as I can tell,

... is to keep Bernie talking and voting as he does as an independent. He serves a unique role that almost no Democrat can.

For an independent to garner so much support from national Democratic primary voters and national Democratic leadership should be all the clues you need.

[kstewart33]

100. I recently read that Bernie's approval numbers in Vermont are down.

Don't remember the source, only that I was surprised. Has anyone seen this? Or have information on approval numbers? If so, please include the source.

Vermont is a teeny, tiny state and I'm not sure that, either way, what happens in Vermont applies to the rest of the country.

[Uncle Joe]

102. As of the first quarter 2018 America's Most and Least Popular Senators

2018’s first quarter was a volatile one for several senators, with lawmakers on both sides of the aisle seeing significant changes in levels of support from their constituents, according to the latest Morning Consult Senator Approval Rankings.

In the quarterly rankings — based on surveys conducted online with more than 275,000 registered voters nationwide from Jan. 1 through March 31 — a dozen senators saw their net approval ratings fluctuate by at least 9 percentage points from the previous three-month period. By comparison, two senators saw swings of that magnitude during the fourth quarter of 2017. See our methodology here.

(snip)

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) retained his spot atop the rankings after picking up 11 points from the previous quarter — 72 percent of registered voters in the Green Mountain State approve of his job performance. The most popular Republican in the chamber, Conference Chairman John Thune of South Dakota, gained 10 points. The Senate’s No. 3 Republican also ranks as the third-most popular senator, with 62 percent of constituents approving of his work.

Net approval for Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) rose by 3 points in the first quarter, with 52 percent disapproving and 34 percent approving of his job performance. He remains the least popular senator.

https://morningconsult.com/2018/04/12/americas-most-and-least-popular-senators/

[mountain grammy]

147. Thank you. 72% approval rating in Vermont!

He'll always have my approval because I believe capitalism only works with regulation. Our justice system only works with oversight and regulation. Unions are the only power of the working class. It's simple and nothing new.

[Uncle Joe]

148. Well said mountain grammy

[Voltaire2]

30. The ruthless maneuver prevents a rat fuck candidate

splitting the vote and getting a republican elected.

The primary is open for anyone who wants to challenge Sanders for the Democratic Party nomination.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

38. This is well-known policy - third time is been done - any candidate is free to run.

[Adrahil]

43. So why not just accept the nomination? NT

[Voltaire2]

48. If one nonsense attack fails just move on to another.

I’ve seen this tactic before.

[Adrahil]

61. That's not an answer....

And I have yet to see Berner answer it. Why not just accept the nomination? Why won't you answer it?

[tonedevil]

63. This is the arrangement...

that the Vermont Democratic Party and Senator Sanders have come to and used since 1991. If you don't like it and you live in Vermont you should make sure your party understands your objections. If you don't like it and don't live in Vermont your opinion is valueless.

[Adrahil]

117. Still no answer. Why doesn't Sanders accept the nomination? NT

[Voltaire2]

72. This subthread started with

"Bernie never attacks walmart because deplorables shop there and they don't shop amazon".
Which was obvious bullshit on many levels.

It then progressed to "not repeatedly" and "not decades" of Walmart criticism when it was pointed out that of course Sanders had repeatedly over decades attacked walmart's egregious labor practices.

As the second tier of bullshit petered out a total non sequitur entered the subthread: Bernie is ruthlessly suppressing people's rights to vote for democratic candidates for senator. Which of course is also bullshit, and has been recently discussed here ad nauseam, including why Sanders remains an independent and why the VDP and Sanders have the arrangement they have, and how that protects the senate seat in the general election from rat fuckery.

So no, I'm not going to scrape off every random bit of oatmeal bullshit thrown up on the walls. It is a standard rhetorical tactic know as a "gish gallop", championed initially by rightwing bullshit artists, but unfortunately now in widespread use. Sorry, ain't gonna play.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

73. .

[Adrahil]

119. Another no answer...

I'm beginning to think you folks don't want to say why.

[Uncle Joe]

82. ..

[Adrahil]

120. Another no answer.

[Adrahil]

118. aaaaannnnd.... no answer. Again. NT

[JCanete]

45. That is a really bad assessment of what is happening. What IS happening is that Sanders runs as

a Democrat so that, assuming a democrat wanted to challenge him in the primaries, there wouldn't be a split vote during the GE, giving the vote to a Republican. Instead, the challenge would happen where it should happen.


What IS the downside here? Is it just that you dislike him so much that there must be one, and that's why you went to that interpretation instinctively?

[R B Garr]

46. Wasn't his mantra about choices for voters??

Now it’s changed all of a sudden when he wants to run unopposed. Such double standards.

[JCanete]

47. he is running unopposed because nobody is opposing him. This has nothing at all to do with

him running as a democrat or not. Plenty of democrats are getting primary challenges...so I have no idea what point you're making, wheras his choice to run as a democrat is the right thing to do, since, rather than to run as a left-wing independent and to have the only recourse for a democratic challenger be to run against him in the GE, possibly ceding the election to the Republican, he can instead be challenged in the primary.

[R B Garr]

52. Ah, it is interesting to see the thought processes

put into how the Democratic vote will be split and when it matters and when it doesn’t.

[Voltaire2]

56. It is even more interesting that the experts here

know so much more about the situation in Vermont than the Vermont Democratic Party. You really should contact them.

[R B Garr]

57. I was thinking the same thing about Bernie smearing MY

Senator, Feinstein, by saying he wouldn’t endorse her. How ridiculous to meddle in California politics from Vermont, way across the country. Also I think he made a huge deal about offering himself to voters as another choice a couple years ago. Splitting Democrats isn’t always a priority, it seems. It’s all personality driven and situational.

[Voltaire2]

58. I'd be happy if Feinstein were replaced by a less

centrist Democrat. Sanders is of course working to push the party off it’s centrist establishment safe space. I support that objective. Nationally it is how we reverse the death spiral we have been on, and how we start winning again.

As one of the leading spokesperson for the progressive wing of party, it is entirely appropriate for Sanders to pick sides in primaries.

[R B Garr]

60. It is certainly not appropriate for him to smear

Democrats, especially 3,000 miles away in another state and to promote himself. It is entirely self-serving and counter-productive. You’ve just confirmed that is entirely personality driven, and note that he didn’t win and that Revolution group isn’t winning in significant ways. Quite a death spiral of his/their own.

This kind of negative labeling/endorsing isn’t working, like a Senator from a small state who only needs 200,000 votes to get elected smearing Feinstein who literally receives tens of millions votes. No death spiral here for Feinstein. Calling people centrists who actually get elected is an empty self-serving smear. Useless and phony.

[JCanete]

67. Our Revolutions numbers are acutally pretty impressive for a new group....What's their win

percentage? Do you know? What is the Democratic party's win percentage over the last 30 years? And Our Revolution is backing candidates who don't have massive war-chests of money at that.


here is an excerpt from that hit piece by Politico.

Kleeb, who also serves as the Nebraska Democratic Party chairwoman, argued, “We have about a 50 percent win record, which I think is a miracle given the fact that we usually endorse the underdog, or a woman, or a person who comes from a community of color.” (The win record is closer to 40 percent.)

literally admitting that the our rev's win ratio is at 40 percent. That's a bad number?

[R B Garr]

69. That is laughable to compare the Revolution to 30

years of Democrats. But it does show their obvious mindset of Revolution vs. Democrats. Thanks for the confirmation.

[JCanete]

74. I think you totally missed my point. Would you discount democrats as a party worth supporting if

they had a crappy showing one year, or is that not the criteria you would go by? Second, IS a 40% win rate abysmal for a new group supporting mostly no-name candidates with marginal funding by comparisson to their rivals?

[R B Garr]

80. More tangents. I support Democrats. Not 3rd party

diversions and diverted topics. LOL.

[Lordquinton]

104. My senator, Diane Feinstien

Has been losing a lot of endorsements. The only reason to single out Sanders is if you have an axe to grind.

[R B Garr]

105. My Senator, Dianne Feinstein, would be savaged if she dared

to do what Bernie did to her. You can turn your statement right around—only someone with an axe to grind would attack Feinstein. That is a much more accurate statement.

Her ads about gun control alone put her at the forefront of current events. Bernie should worry about Vermont.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

106. Yep. The California Democratic Party didn't endorse but Bernie is a bad guy for not endorsing.

Oooooohhhhhkayyyyyyy

These arguments would be funny if they weren’t so pathetic.

California Democrats decline to endorse Feinstein
The party elects not to give its backing to the state's senior senator.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/25/california-democrats-feinstein-leon-423452

[Lordquinton]

126. Imagine thinking that someone saying they are staying out of something

Is them smearing a senator and meddling in affairs. Blatant bias.

[Lordquinton]

125. First of all, there is no smearing going on. None.

That's all your bias showing. Our senator has been losing many endorsements, including her state party. Is the California Democratic party smearing her as well? Are the college Dems smearing her?

His comment was that he was staying out of the race, literally that he was not going to "meddle" and you accuse him of doing the opposite.

[R B Garr]

136. Those so-called endorsements are not what voters

Last edited Fri Jun 1, 2018, 07:29 PM - Edit history (1)

care about. It’s no secret that Bernie supporters joined the California Democratic party and their tactics are recognizable. They smear her just like you did—establishment corporations blah blah blah. Besides, they lost the leadership position of that organization, so more sour grapes.

If Feinstein dared to voice her opinion that Bernie not run again, she would be savaged.

edit: this thread is almost a week old. Kinda bogus to kick it.

[Voltaire2]

167. So your problem now is that people you disagree

with have joined the Democratic Party.

Ok.

[R B Garr]

183. That makes absolutely no sense. Can I impose

what I think your problem is?? How does this work...?

Let’s not waste our time.

[Lordquinton]

185. So disagreement is smearing?

You pivoted so fast, now the California Democratic party, the one that accounted for Clinton's million popular vote tally, is wholly infiltrated by sanders supporters?

That is utterly ridiculous.

[R B Garr]

186. You know you make no sense because if Feinstein dared to

voice her disapproval of Bernie and suggested he needs to go away because he doesn’t suit her personal media blitz, she would be excoriated.

You keep making a yuuuge deal of some Bernie supporters in the California Democratic Party as if their endorsement of Feinstein matters. It really doesn’t. Feinstein transcends them.

edit: this thread is almost a week old. Kinda bogus to kick it.

[Lordquinton]

187. This has been a trip

This started with you declaring Sanders was smearing Feinstein in the race, it turned out that his "smear" was actually him saying "I'm staying out of it"

You keep making a yuuuge deal of Sanders doing exactly what you want him to.

Now it's no big deal that she doesn't have the support of her own party. You also never said if they were smearing her too.

And you cap it off by me for calling you out on the moving goalposts, and outrageous accusations.

[R B Garr]

189. Sanders' own words out of his mouth was that he wasn't endorsing

her. THEN he said he was staying out if it. Look it up. When you say you are not endorsing her, that is not staying out if it. His proxy sure maligns her with the worn out Revolution slogans.

You obviously think this is going to work again — telling people only your version of what we can hear for ourselves is reality and only your version matters. No more false realities, just stop.

[Lordquinton]

191. Be the change you want to see

You said he smeared her. Are you also saying the Cal Dem party is smearing her as well?

The only false reality is the one you are trying to push, and trying to silence anyone who disagrees with your

[R B Garr]

192. Take your own advice. If he said he wasn't endorsing

her, that is a negative thing. Not endorsing someone is negative. It is meant to discourage voters against her. If he wanted to stay out if it, he wouldn’t have said he wasn’t endorsing her. You don’t get to change his own words and then try to label me with yet more negativity so you can dictate reality.

There is no reason he had to say that about a colleague in the Senate. That is not a good fight.

[mountain grammy]

149. Exactly!

[JCanete]

66. What are you talking about? Show me where I've said that 3rd parties don't split the vote. I think

they have a right to exist and can serve an important function, but I still voted for Clinton and I still voted for Kerry, and I'm certainly more comfortable with challenges going through the primary process, which is why I mostly approve of the approach groups like justice dems and our revolution are taking. It is the better way than forming a third party.

What I have said is that 3rd parties in this last election accounted for a very small part of the equation that gave us Trump, and compared to other factors, that is absolutely true. They were a percentage of the vote that didn't go to Clinton, whereas there's no reason the election should have ever been that close.(not a knock on Clinton, but on the media's poor job of covering Trump and giving him a shit-load of free promotional air because he was a reality star and because greater media's job is apparently not to ever scrutinize republicans).

But what you should be justifying is your position that Sanders running as a democrat in Vermont is somehow actually bad, given the reasons for doing so, rather than trying to catch me in some hypocrisy that doesn't exist here. And if you can't, then why are you jumping on this bandwagon?

[R B Garr]

70. All these paragraphs and not a single thing to do

with my comment, probably by design...

[JCanete]

75. well what the hell was your comment to do with. If you mean the design of your comment, i'm

inclined to concur.

[R B Garr]

81. Obvious tangent is obvious.

You completely ignored the double standards about when it is okay to split the Democratic vote and how it is obviously personality driven. It is about specific recent events and people, not random theories and associations.

[JCanete]

83. I still have no idea what you were trying to say, and its you, not me, that likes it that way. What

exactly are you afraid of here? that you didn't have a leg to stand on, so you are going to be as cryptic as possible?

[R B Garr]

86. LOL, it is by design.

It is not anything new and expected actually.

Ignore the point and then create some free association sidebars.

At least Google shows the results I’m talking about. Sanders and his campaign insisting the choice for voters is important, but not so much in Vermont where he will run unopposed. Double standards.

[JCanete]

91. How does him running unopposed reflect whether or not choices are good? He can't exactly run against

himself to add some spice to the election. If a challenger wanted to run against him in Vermont on the Democratic ticket that challenger could. His decision to run as a democrat has nothing at all to do with running unopposed, and instead, gives a far less problematic pathway for would-be democratic contenders. Again, I ask you, what is your point?

[R B Garr]

93. LOL, another sidebar. You manufacture scenarios

that you can manipulate with text.

I’ll stick with reality and what actually happened, I.e., double standards.

Choice for voters means exactly that. Multiple options on the ballot, more than one name, diversity. I don’t blame you for continuing to ignore that. I can remember when that was a big deal — options for Democrats. Now not so much, alas.

[JCanete]

94. what actually happened? Explain to me how it would have been different had he run as an independent.

Or are you just making shit up? You are aware that choices CAN happen in the primary as well right?

That still amounts to choice although it certainly does bar those who are unaffiliated with a party from participating. If Sanders thinks our system should have more parties, I agree with him, but in order for that to be a practical endeavor that doesn't have 3rd parties playing spoiler, we would need a runoff voting system of some kind, which today, we do not have. At the end of the day, in-spite of all the nonsense rhetoric about Sanders and purity tests, he has continued to be pragmatic, taking the best we can get in a given moment. His voting record shows that, and so do his GE endorsements. And right now the best we can get is our 2 party system. Its what we have and what we have to work with. Why are you so faux outraged that he would do something that is actually good for democrats and progressivism and doesn't set us all up to fail at the hands of a split outcome?

[R B Garr]

96. None of this addressed my point. Again.

But I don’t blame you for ignoring it.

[JCanete]

97. the funny part is I'm not trying to ignore it. What is it? I thought it was that choice is good,

and that presumably, I or Sanders are in favor of more choice. I'll accept that as true.

what action is being taken by Sanders that is reducing choice? That's the part where you've totally lost me.

[George II]

122. It's amazing that those who claim primaries/elections are "rigged" are perfectly happy...

....when primaries/elections are "rigged" in their favor.

[R B Garr]

137. Thank you!! Several sidebars and distractions, but you

get the point just fine!

[grantcart]

50. Why doesn't this insipid fanboyism stay in the BS Group?

Because the basic norms don't apply to the beloved or his devotees.

[SidDithers]

89. "insipid fanboyism"...

That's perfect.

Sid

[aikoaiko]

20. Fight the good fight, Bernie. I thank you.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

35. The guy never gives up, never gives in, and, thankfully, Bernie still has a lotta fight left in him.

Go Bernie!!

[Snotcicles]

44. It's as if the man wants with a clear conscience when he meets his maker. nt

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

51. Yes, and he will be truly at peace knowing he gave it his all.

[guillaumeb]

32. Recommending this thread.

For obvious reasons.

[Lifelong Protester]

33. K & R!

[BannonsLiver]

41. Does the good fight include backing candidates who can win elections?

[Hassin Bin Sober]

42. Yes. Look at all these nice Democratic Candidates

[BannonsLiver]

110. My bad.

I should have been more clear. I meant general elections. The ones that matter most. And tuning through that list, I suspect few will win, outside of those running for city council in Portland and the like. The reality is OR has demonstrated really almost no ability to win general elections and have taken a lot of lumps in primaries as well.

[disillusioned73]

146. As expected..

[WiffenPoof]

62. I just don't get it...

The Dem party is floundering, seemingly lost, mostly directionless. Yet Bennie Sanders was able to draw huge crowds that obviously connected with his message. It was almost as if Americans were hungry to hear what he had to say. For me, his message is the exact message we need to hear from the Democratic Party. He represents what the Dem party has stood for, for the entirety of his political life.

I'm amazed that this clear message is being ignored by the supposed "party of the people."

Yes, you are correct. He is NOT a Democrat, he is more than a Democrat.

[tavernier]

64. Stop with that. Please.

It has repeatedly been requested that members of DU please stop trashing our party on DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND.

There are other sites that will happily do this, and that’s where you should take your posts.

[DFW]

65. I think I know the name of one of them

Some posters on here just have..........

[WiffenPoof]

71. So...

So,. I'd like to know where you draw the line between constructive criticism and trashing.

Do you simply want to NEVER criticize or own?

I thought we were the party of tolerance? Perhaps not.

[StrictlyRockers]

78. The problem is that you made a really good point that supports Bernie.

And you made that post on a forum that is hostile to Bernie Sanders for no good reason.

[Wwcd]

85. I'd like to know when the glorification of one man stops and the TRUTH is spoken as fact.

Bernie voted Against All Democrats on the Magnitsky Act.
That is the Truth.
He most certainly has NOT aligned with the Democratic Party "his entire life".
His peeps could at least be truthful.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

99. Wrong. Not true. Try again.

“Peeps” interested in the truth would not regurgitate this pablum that Sanders voted “against all Democrats” when, in fact, Levin(D) voted against it, Whitehouse(D) voted against it , and Reed(D-RI) voted against it.

And all 4 voted for the Senate version of the Bill. What they didn’t like was the House/Republican version of the bill that only imposed sanctions on Russia for human rights violations.

See:

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/271455-senate-passes-russia-trade-bill

Ben. Ben Cardin (D-Md.) had hoped to include human rights language that would have imposed travel and financial sanctions on alleged human rights violators around the world, but the House-passed version included language that sanctions only violators in Russia.

See:

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/271455-senate-passes-russia-trade-bill

Sens. Carl Levin (D-Mich.), Jack Reed (D-R.I.), Sheldon Whitehouse (D-R.I.) and Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) voted against the trade bill.

Levin said Wednesday that he would have preferred that the Senate vote on its version of the bill, which included the sanctions worldwide, rather than just affecting Russia.

“I don’t understand why we’re not taking up the Senate version and applying these standards universally,” Levin said on the Senate floor Wednesday night. “The only answer I can get is that the House might not pass the Senate version. Well, we should do what we think is right.”. Carl Levin (D-Mich.), Jack Reed (D-R.I.), Sheldon Whitehouse (D-R.I.) and Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) voted against the trade bill.

[Wwcd]

79. His Vote Against Magnitsky was NOT Democratic. Nor his lack of concern for women's issues.

Rape is NOT a fantasy nor is it a Democratic value.
Never was either.

His whole life, you claim? In that case, he does NOT represent the Democratic Party of All people.



Please edit your post.

"He represents what the Dem party has stood for, for the entirety of his political life. "


Wrong.

[Trumpocalypse]

92. Then why does he refuse to join the party

And he may have gotten huge crowds but someone else got more votes.

[VOX]

68. Waiting for Bernie to walk on water...

Instead of bumming his umpteenth ride off the Democratic Party without chipping in for gas.

-Bernie is the guy who repeatedly invites himself over for dinner, but never reciprocates.

-Bernie is the guy who listens to your hopes about that new desirable job opening, then applies for the position himself.

-Bernie is the guy who borrows your lawn mower, but doesn’t return it.

[Wwcd]

88. Post Award of the day. Thank you.

[Me.]

152. What A Great Way To Put It

"bumming his umpteenth ride off the Democratic Party without chipping in for gas"

[ananda]

76. Yes he does.

Just a good man ... period.

[Wwcd]

84. K & R your post.

There is so much wrong about the glorification of this man.
When the image he presents doesn't match his history, it is only fair & right to stop & correct the misguided bs.

His vote against Magnitsky, for starters, was NOT a Democratic vote.

At least be truthful.
Thanks

[Uncle Joe]

95. Actually Bernie was opposed to the TPP going back to January of 2014

[R B Garr]

103. +++I always thought his TPP attacks were really a back door

way to attack Bill Clinton. He couldn’t address his record directly because Bill was so successful, so he hammered the TPP without any context.

Great post. Agree with your “at best” scenarios.

[Uncle Joe]

108. There is nothing "back door" about Bernie, he opposed NAFTA in 1991, policy

is what Bernie is all about.

[ucrdem]

112. Bashing the Clintons has always been his bread and butter and 2015-16 was a feast.

So what did we win?

[Uncle Joe]

114. Can you see the difference? I said "policy" is what Bernie is all about and you said Clintons those

aren't the same things.

[ucrdem]

115. The point is that once it became a Clinton policy Bernie's star rose swiftly.

It seems there's always an audience ready to hear a Clinton bash. I heard him do it myself back in May 2016. Every other sentence started with "Secretary Clinton" and none of them were flattering. I heard Hillary the same day and if she uttered his name once it was to say something cordial about him. And now he's a millionaire just like the Clintons.

[Uncle Joe]

142. The point is George H.W. Bush was President in 1991 when Bernie came out against NAFTA and more

Republicans voted for it than Democrats.

Bernie has been consistent in regards to trade policies for at least 27 years no matter who was President.

[Wwcd]

127. What did his "good fight" get us again? Not Democracy, as we sit here today.

So much for the "good fight."

We'd have done better without his version of it.

[R B Garr]

116. That is your opinion. Others saw another strategy,

like the post I responded to. It is not too hard to figure out why Bernie would be reluctant to attack Bill Clinton in 2016. Bill left a surplus, and his policies saw a lot of consumer confidence and a great economy.

[Wwcd]

134. Good point RB. Face reality. Bernie Sanders will never ever have what it takes to unite & heal

America.
He has sown an enormous division between new & long time liberal voters to the point where millions within the liberal base despise all he stands for.

He will never be the great healing force that repairs the division in our country.
Not ever. And unfortunately for mr sanders, THAT is the leader America must have.

He cannot ever undo the division he created.

Its Just the truth of the man who set out to run on the Dem ticket for, "Money & Media".
Those were his very own words when asked.

Money & Media was it?? Really.
This statement alone created a serious trust issue among millions of liberal voters.
And what's he done so far to repair that divide?

Not near enough.
Bernie's never going to be the leader that unites & heals this country.
He chose his road & here we are.

[SidDithers]

87. Sure. He's a peach...nt

Sid

[Wwcd]

90. Indeed. Ya just never know what its like on the inside till ya open it up.

[jalan48]

109. Thank you Senator Sanders.

[Uncle Joe]

111. +1000

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

130. +1001

[Wwcd]

128. For what? Democracy is in tatters. Thanks for nothin bern.

He's done nothing but talk, as far as I can tell but he sure did divide the voters.
We need someone who can & really wants to unite this broken nation.
He can never repair the divide he created.

He is divisive to a point of no return.
Sorry, he did it himself, "Money & Media" he said when asked why he ran as a Democrat.

bernie sanders & his revolution are now, all they will ever be, & its just not enough to unite & heal a nation.

He is way too divisive to ever be THAT Person.
Its just a fact .

[Me.]

132. You Might As Well Save Your 'Breath'

there is none so blind as those who can't/won't see

[Wwcd]

138. That's the truth, ME

Nice to see you.
I've been busy with friends visiting here, over the long wknd.

[Me.]

151. Back At You

[mountain grammy]

153. That's what I usually say about trumpers..

not people I agree with 90% of the time.. you and I should agree on nearly every issue, but you would disrespect me by saying I'm "blind and can't/won't see" because I approve and support Bernie Sanders.

How dare you describe me and other supporters of Bernie Sanders as blind followers who can't/won't see. Maybe you're describing yourself? Maybe I'm wrong about you and we don't agree that our justice system is broken.. Maybe we don't agree that mass incarceration has destroyed families and lives. Maybe we don't agree that universal health care or a fair minimum wage or affordable college should be policy in America..

If you're not with me on these issues, well, I have one thing to say to you: there is none so blind as those who can't/won't see.

[Me.]

155. We Do Agree On Many Things

But not that Senator from Vermont and I will leave it at that.

[mountain grammy]

157. Then please stop disrespecting me..

For me it's ALWAYS been about issues and policies. I've been fighting the fight for years.. was suspended twice from my job for legal union activity. I've had my tires punctured and my life threatened for protesting union busting and racial injustice and marching for gay pride, only to be told by another Dem that I'm blind and can't/won't see for supporting a politician that has supported our views for decades.

What the hell?

.

[Me.]

162. That's Quite A Case Of Umbrage You Have This Morning

As for the Senator, I think he's all talk and no walk and has been put on a pedestal that will sooner or later collapse. And he doesn't always support Dem views so let's not make him into more than he is, although there always seems to be a reason why he doesn't support a Dem policy and he is given a pass. Nor will I support any effort to ever again put him on a Dem ticket for a presidential primary, in fact, will fight it as much as I can. As someone up thread said he has already bummed one too many rides without chipping in for gas money.

And none of how I feel about him or about support for him by Dems has to do with what you have fought for in terms of rights and justice and if you wish to conflate the two, that's up to you.

[mountain grammy]

165. Please tell me what Democratic views he hasn't supported..

Oh right, he voted against giving the Bush administration the right to invade Iraq.. wow, that Democratic view didn't turn out so well now did it? He also opposed the Vietnam War while support for the war was the Democratic view, and voting rights while the Democratic view was "we'll get to it eventually." He also supported gay marriage long before that was the Democratic view and so many Democrats had to "elvolve" on the issue.

So are you just upset that Democratic views had to catch up with Bernie Sanders?

In 1991, he stood in opposition to the first Gulf War, voting against military involvement in the country even after Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait. "I think we could've gotten Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait in a way that did not require a war," he told ABC's Martha Raddatz Sunday on "This Week," arguing that with the world in agreement, other options were available, including sanctions.

After the terrorist attacks on 9/11, Sanders did vote in favor of a military response in Afghanistan. But Sanders said the use of force, in his opinion, is not only permissible in response to an attack.

"The cost of war is great, and it is far more than the hundreds of billions of dollars we spend on planes, tanks, missiles and guns," Sanders wrote in an opinion piece in the Boston Globe last summer. "The cost of war is more than 6,800 service members who have died in Iraq and Afghanistan. The cost of war is caring for the spouses and children who have to rebuild their lives after the loss of their loved ones. It's about hundreds of thousands of men and women coming home from war with post-traumatic stress disorder and traumatic brain injury, many of them having difficulty keeping jobs in order to pay their bills. It's about high divorce rates. It's about the terrible tragedy of veterans committing suicide," he wrote.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bernie-sanders-applied-conscientious-objector-status-vietnam-campaign/story?id=33434041

[Me.]

170. "So are you just upset that Democratic views had to catch up with Bernie Sanders?"

and there it is, my point made

[mountain grammy]

171. Oh, so are you still holding on to

don't ask don't tell? Is that working for you? Still approve of the Iraq invasion? Is that your point?

Not really understanding what your point is.

[Me.]

172. Clearly

and listen, if your main support is for an avowed non-Dem, fine, but own it.

[mountain grammy]

175. I am anti war, pro union, pro civil rights, pro human rights and equality.

I was raised that way.. taught to support candidates who are the same.. that would be Democrats 99% of the time.. these days 100%. but Democrats haven't always and some still don't.

I'm a registered Democrat, have been since 21 ( the voting age back then.) No my "main support" is not for an "avowed non-Dem" because there's no such person that I would support.

How about telling me what you support instead of what you think I support.. Universal health care? A higher minimum wage? Fighting climate change? Protecting human and civil rights? Are you there? Or is this more about taking down those of us who still admire and respect Bernie Sanders..

Just heard ABC has canceled Roseanne.. Maybe we're finally seeing things turn around. Let's unite on the issues we all agree on, which are most of them, and leave the hate to the other side. Bernie Sanders is squarely on ours.

[Me.]

178. We Can Unite On Those Things Dems Support

but where we will continue to differ is on the subject that I suggest remain unspoken between us as I don't believe you will change and I know I won't.

[Uncle Joe]

174. Good luck with trying to figure out what the point is,

I'm missing it as well.

[mountain grammy]

176. No kidding!

My daily dose of depression.

[Voltaire2]

163. No shit. The hate fest is appalling.

[mountain grammy]

166. Yes it is, yes it is.

[Uncle Joe]

141. The irony of your post would be funny if it wasn't so sad. n/t

[Demsrule86]

161. What is sad about not wanting Sen. Sanders to run because we might lose much as we did in 16

And then kiss the progressive movement goodbye. He will be 80 years old and the entire electorate was divided last time. It makes me angry that he would even consider a run.

[Uncle Joe]

164. You begin with "Democracy is in tatters" and yet your argument is basically counter

to promoting democracy.

It's also ironic that your "divisive character" has the highest approval rating of any Senator in the nation, not to mention that Bernie's focus has always been on the issues or policies doing his best to avoid personal attacks even when prodded or given the opportunity on numerous occasions by the corporate media conglomerates.

Not mention your slight against age regardless that Bernie keeps a schedule that exhausts the much younger reporters that follow him.

"Democracy is messy, and it's hard. It's never easy." Robert Kennedy, Jr.

[Demsrule86]

182. There is no question that the electorate was divided after the 16 primary.. which led some to stay

home or vote third party or even vote for Trump. He is the most popular in his state-not necessarily popular enough for a presidential run...my guess is he is popular enough to mess up 20 but not popular enough to win the entire thing.

Also, I think 80 is too old to run for president...another reason for folks not to vote for him. He also criticizes Democrats and the Party which makes me angry. I don't think he can carry POC either...sorry,I mean no offence but that is what I think. I hope he doesn't run in 20. He only helps the GOP if he does. We need new faces.

[mountain grammy]

184. by "the entire thing" I think you mean both the electoral votes and the popular vote.

I don't know if Bernie Sanders will run or not, but I'm happy to hear him speaking out loud, strong and often not only against trump but for the very Democratic policies that will make America a better country and the world a better world. We have to get our message out there and as long as he has the energy to promote causes near and dear to me, I love hm.. I love anyone who does.

I 'm all for new faces and there's a bunch out there and they are on message. Obama was a new face when he captured our imaginations.

[disillusioned73]

143. K&R..

[NCTraveler]

156. .

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/1280185753

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-05-29/inside-the-pro-trump-effort-to-keep-black-voters-from-the-polls

[Blue_Tires]

177. He needs to corral the nutbars working for him, though

because they WILL tear his house down... Just a nickel's worth of free advice

[Are_grits_groceries]

188. HARD PASS! nt

[Sunlei]

190. "the focus right now is on 2018. 2020 is a way away" Sanders 5/31/2018

"I consider a lot of things but the focus right now is on 2018. 2020 is a way away and we'll make that decision at the appropriate time."

I'm running for election in Vermont for the United States Senate. I consider a lot of things but the focus right now is on 2018. 2020 is a way away and we'll make that decision at the appropriate time.

There is less division among the American people, and certainly among the Democratic Party than people may think. For example:

•Overwhelmingly people are in opposition to giving tax breaks to billionaires. People are unified on that.


•The vast majority of the American people believe that we should have sensible gun safety legislation.


•People overwhelmingly support that women should earn the same amount of money doing the same work as men.


•People really believe that climate change is real. (Now I know you and The Donald think it's a hoax emanating from China. I got it, but there are some of us who disagree with that suggestion.)


People suggesting I'm not a young voice for the Democratic Party never end [lol].

Bernie Sanders 5/31/2018