This is why integrity & fact checking are critical: "Liberals Blame Trump for 'Awful' Photos of

[Ms. Toad]

Obama’s Migrant Detention Centers," is a headline trending on Breitbart. (I won't link to it, but I'm sure you'll find it
if you're interested.)

There have been at least two separate clusters of threads over the weekend on DU attributing to Trump, practices (and photos thereof) that began with Obama (or earlier - but continuing through Obama's presidencY).

The first theme: Photos taken (and published) in June 2014, during Obama's presidency, captioned, "First peek: Immigrant children flood detention center"

and a second theme, one OP of which was captioned, "I would wear one," expressing outrage at Trump beginning the practice of forcing immigrants to wear a yellow bracelet - comparing it to the Star of David, accompanied by an ICE (in case of emergency) bracelets. Again, the bracelets (and ankle monitors) were used during the Obama administration - they date at least as far back as 2008 (p 3) - and the bracelet depicted (that caused at least one person to fire off a nasty-gram to the advertiser) had nothing to do with immigration.

The headline in the subject line, above, is trending on Breitbart - they are laughing at us. Perpetuating stories like these lend credence to their contention that they are no worse than we are at making up/spreading fake news.

We're not - but let's not give them ammunition. It is so easy to believe the worst about Trump (and generally it's true), and - at least right now - to forget that our record, as a country, is piss poor on immigration (at least in recent years). Many of the bad practices Trump is continuing - or making worse - did not start with Trump.

* Remember to fact-check.
* Before sharing atrocities, make sure that they are actually attributable to Trump - and that you are not posting photos or stories that will come back to bite us because they depict immigration under Obama.
* If someone gently (or otherwise) suggests you are spreading fake news - please consider if it might be true (and consider the consequence of continuing to defend it if it is fake news) before you shoot the messenger. Both of these were first (or at least very early) brought to the attention of DU by someone who is currently a favorite for target practice. I think the identity of messenger who relayed the alarm delayed our recognition that we were being trolled (or, at a very minimum, being misled by someone with good intentions but who failed to fact check).

We need to maintain our position as the party that (in addition to other things) values facts.

Please!?

[Decoy of Fenris]

1. I agree with you. That said, good luck. "Perpetually outraged" is the default regardless of truth.nt

[RandySF]

2. I didn't blame Trump or Obama in my diary

I blamed ICE.

[Ms. Toad]

4. But the implication, since it is being posted is that it is ICE

under the Trump administration.

The photo is from 2016. Did you know about it at the time? Did you try to correct anyone suggesting it was something new and evil created by ICE under the Trump administration?

I have zero fondness for ICE (under this, or any previous administration) - but anything posted now is presumed to be some new evil perpetrated under Trump's administration. It does us no good to perpetuate that.

[RandySF]

5. I'm not a handholder

[Ms. Toad]

8. First - that wasn't the question I asked.

I wanted to know what you believed at the time you posted it. Did you know you were posting 2-year old (actually closer to 8, if you go by the commission date for the project)?

Second - it has nothing to do with hand-holding. It has to do with not shooting ourselves in the foot by avoiding competing with the right-wing ding-bats as purveyors of fake news.

[lunatica]

3. Rec'd and kick'd

[JI7]

6. It's not like these are elected officials like trump who they support

[Ms. Toad]

9. Sorry - I don't understand your point. n/t

[JI7]

10. Such concern over trashy trump supporters and what they think

Which congressmembers are pushing this ?

If they care another misinfo why the fuck do they support trump.

[Ms. Toad]

11. Do you really think it is a good thing for Democrats to be peddling fake news?

That's exactly what we're doing when we post photos from 2014 and slap a label on them that talks about life under Trump's Amerika - when the photos actually depict life under Obama's Amerika (to the extent the president is responsible for whatever happens under his watch).

[JI7]

12. Are congressmembers pushing it ? Someone on some blog said something ?

[Ms. Toad]

13. Pushing what?

My comments are about DU members repeating false information, without bothering to do basic fact checking. As far as I'm concerned, that is a really stupid thing to do.

I don't know what you are asking about congress members pushing. If you're talking about the two stories I've mentioned, I've only seen DU members and other liberals I know pushing it.

[JI7]

14. So breitbart and other trump supporters should worry about his lying

Instead of some comments on some website.

[Ms. Toad]

16. Of course they should - but that's not their agenda.

They are doing whatever they can to make it seem as if we are no different than they are.

Aside from the important concern that facts actually do matter, we should not be giving them ammunition to use against us.

[JI7]

18. There is a difference in that elected officials aren't pushing it

And comments on some blog.

[Ms. Toad]

19. So it's just fine if individual liberals are spreading fake news,

as long as liberal elected officials don't? I hope we're better than that.

[JI7]

21. I'm calling out the bs from trump supporters and what they claim to be concerned another

Some anonymous comments on the internet bothers them but not when it's don't by their so called president.

[oberliner]

34. Better to just help correct misinformation

And apologize if you ever inadvertently pass any along.

[kcr]

22. They aren't the only ones pushing that agenda

But regardless of the reason and who is pulling the stunt, anyone who thinks they're accomplishing anything with these gotchas is mistaken. No one should be paying them any attention.

[Ms. Toad]

29. Are you suggesting that we should not care about the truth?

The photos attributed to Trump's Amerika were, in fact, photos published on the ICE activity during the Obama years.

The color-coded wrist-band policy predates Obama, but it continued under his watch - and still continues. The specific photo used to illustrate that story has absolutely nothing to do with immigrant wrist bands - and at least one DU-er fired off a letter to one advertiser and was working on identifying the other (which does a lot of good humanitarian work).

It is not a stunt to care about facts and honesty. We complain about Republicans making facts up all of the time - we should not engage in the same behavior we accuse them of.

[kcr]

31. No, Ms. Toad. I'm suggesting no such thing.

I'm suggesting that, shocker of shockers, there are disingenuous people on the internet. I realize that's a revelation for some.

[oberliner]

33. There are hypocrites on the internet too

Shocker of shockers.

[kcr]

37. Oooh, good one.

Hey, this is fun. I know another one. Concern trolls. Lots of them on the internet, too.

[oberliner]

38. Thanks

I think it's important that we all strive to be consistent, if we can.

[kcr]

39. And you're damn good at it n/t

[Ms. Toad]

42. Is it the truth that the photos are from 2014

and the color-coded bracelets have been used at least since 2008?

If you don't think it should be pointed out, do you have a better solution when the false statement that the photos are of Trump's Amerika and that the color-coded bracelets are a new Trump policy are going viral among liberals?

Are you really more concerned about rejecting everything from someone you consider to be disingenuous than you are about the truth?

[oberliner]

7. Thankfully there was a DUer around to correct that misinformation fairly quickly

Otherwise it could've been even worse.

I think we all owe a debt of gratitude and thanks (and, in some cases, an apology) to that messenger you mention.

[B2G]

15. The mindset around here now is

If it fits my narrative, then fact be damned. It doesnt matter how false or disgusting it is.

I've seen so much vitrol and bullshit here lately that it's convinced me to leave. I'm sure many will mourn. But this is not what I signed up for and it's certainly not who I am or want to be.

Keep fighting the good fight.

[Ms. Toad]

17. I hope you're not right - as to the majority

but it certainly seems that way at least as to the loudest.

[kcr]

23. Spoiler alert. They aren't right n/t

[Ms. Toad]

26. They, who, aren't right? n/t

[kcr]

28. Yeah... Hard to keep up sometimes, eh? n/t

[Ms. Toad]

43. When you decide you want to stop being cryptic

and have a conversation, I'll be back.

[B2G]

24. If there IS a majority,

They're afraid to say anything. If they do, they will be denigrated, stalked and alerted on.

I've seen it a million times.

[bearsfootball516]

35. People LOVE to jump to immediate conclusions without looking at the facts.

I've seen plenty of posters here say that the reason Melania has slipped out of the public eye lately is because Trump is beating her.

Like...what the fuck? If you're gonna say that, you better be able to back it up.

[barbtries]

20. there's a really good thread on twitter

that gives the history. Obama could have done more and better, but to compare his policies with Trump's is wrong.

Link to tweet

Also, a good Samantha Bee piece on ICE:

[Ms. Toad]

25. I'm not comparing his policies to Obama

- other than to note that our immigration policies have bee atrocious for decades (including through the Obama years).

My point is that we shoot ourselves in the foot when we post photos of ICE activity under Obama, and attribute them to Trump.

Comparison of the two policies is a valid conversation, but that is a different conversation.

Correcting the use of blatantly false information is not the same as "What about Obama." The response, when called on using 2014 photos and policies to blast Trump, ought to be, "Oops. You're right. Let me delete that. I believed it was a current photo/story, but I was wrong." Responding by saying, "Trump is so much worse" is not a useful response because it does not address the fact that the posts themselves were false.

As to the underlying question, asked repeatedly in that thread "What were you doing about it?" I've been working on immigration issues since at least 1990. That's why I know our policy has been atrocious for decades. It is not something I just woke up to when Trump jumped in, publicized it, and made it worse.

[barbtries]

27. that's more than i can say for myself.

thank you

[Ms. Toad]

32. I've been involved in faith-based lobbying organizations since 1990,

and immigration is a fairly frequent issue for our lobbying visits.

[B2G]

30. Actually, the larger question is

If these photos and accompanying policies were so horrendous under Obama, where was the outrage then? Especially if they laid the foundation for the current policies.

To me, no politician is exempt from critique for bad policy.

[Ms. Toad]

40. Politics is always a matter of picking your battles.

Look at the other threads on this issue - or even, to some extent this thread.

You see how easy it was for Trump to unleash the blatant zenophobia, and even on DU there is a lot of "We have to look out for Americans - other countries need to fend for themselves." While we are pretty universally opposed to what Trump is doing, I doubt there is universal support for what should replace it. It was not an issue he could have won on. He pushed where he thought he could for more humane policies (DACA, for example).

I agree with you as to politicians not being sacred, but there is little tolerance for suggesting Democrats are anything less than perfect.

[pansypoo53219]

36. the baby bus is sad, but it is safety first.

[Ms. Toad]

41. Theoretically, it was used to make sure children could

be transported to medical appointments and on regular outings. I'm not familiar enough with it to know whether that his how it was used.

[hexola]

44. Pictures of INS agents separating children from their parents at gunpoint

Same idea - you see what I did there...also - not Trump - but surely "Awful!"

[Ms. Toad]

46. If you posted that because you believed or intend to suggest

that this is some fresh new Trump atrocity, I'd have the same issue with it.

And if it is currently going viral among liberals with titles tying it to Trump, and you really want to post it for some other purpose, and you don't want to be challenged as part of the viral fake news, you should label it and explain why - other than the viral fake news basis - that you're posting b it.

[hexola]

47. Its no different than the other examples - just more blatantly not Trump

I thought my comment explained it well - the reply title was intentionally provocative.

But - its just a more glaringly dishonest version of the same stuff that's going around.

Sarcasm - for lack of a better word...

[Ms. Toad]

48. Sorry. I'm brain dead

and a bit stumped by the number of challenges from people who don't seem to see a problem with misleading posts.

[Turbineguy]

45. Only the right wing is allowed to make shit up.

It's true. We are held to a higher standard of the truth. And we have to practice it.

[Ms. Toad]

49. I think we (and the media) should be calling them on that crap.

And I definitely don't want us to copy their bad habits.