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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSam Bee called Princess a CUNT...and I missed it...
CNN doing a segment now...anchors are outraged....I predict the Roseanne jazz comparisons commence.....never mind the pig in the WhiteHouse says 100 vile things each day.
brooklynite
(93,834 posts)hlthe2b
(101,698 posts)here.
And for any (including a few women) who want to tell me that term is not really offensive, especially in G. Britain or has been re-appropriated, or whatever, I say NO! Plenty of women of my generation had that term used against them for decades--by men in the workplace who colluded to ensure they were never taken seriously, whose work was not credited, and ensured they didn't get the promotions or pay they deserved. It is every bit as offensive as the N-word to me and many women like me.
pennylane100
(3,425 posts)Being born in England, I was used to hearing that word often. However if those who think is is offensive to women should also want to ban the words "prick" and "dick". It refers to a part of the body, and if it is deemed offensive, why not ban all supposedly slang words for body parts. Male and female.
moriah
(8,311 posts)I watch and read Game of Thrones subreddits, I know across the pond it's an equal opportunity insult, and sometimes not even an insult.
Here, the connotation is very different. Never equal opportunity and always an insult.
Yes, I know we corrupted the Queen's English, but please do understand that the majority of users here are American.
Exotica
(1,461 posts)I am a dual US/UK citizen but most of my life I was raised in London and c*nt and tw*t (feels so weird to not spell them out) are as common (more so IMHO) as asshole is in the states. Oft-times (majority) it refers to men too, lolol. It cuts across class lines too, as you will hear them used from the worst council tenant flats right up to a 200 quid a person Mayfair resto. People who are claiming not hearing c*nt in the UK are simply not being truthful (although one said their family doesn't use it, I can beleive that).
But, like you said, the vast majority here are Americans or American raised, so I would never use it here. Cannot say the same for real life, lolol.
cheers
hlthe2b
(101,698 posts)It is a gender slur here.
pennylane100
(3,425 posts)just like words that are used to insult men. How often are men called "a real dick" when they are being insulted. If we put the the word cunt, granted a derogatory term, in a different category, we just perpetuate the myth that women are delicate and must be protected, and we all know how much that protection has help women take their place in the world.
hlthe2b
(101,698 posts)That despicable slur has no place here. Perhaps you should go "whitesplain" to our African American posters why you think the "n" word should be ok, since you seem to want to lecture American women as to why they should put up with use of the "c" word. Let's see how that goes...
Slurs are used to hurt others. Those who use them show what they truly ARE.
pennylane100
(3,425 posts)I do not need to read the TOS, or a lecture from you for that matter. I am just pointing out the outrage that is being displayed about a slur regarding a woman's vagina is simply that. It is ironic that somehow it is even more outrageous that a slur against a man's penis. If we want to come out of the dark ages regarding how we react about slurs against men and/or women we need to get over it.
hlthe2b
(101,698 posts)But, men have not had use of genital terms as slur in a systematic manner to discriminate against them. WOMEN HAVE and use of the C..t word, as well as B..ch, and many others that might be less severe, HAVE been used to HARM women. Not just to offend them.
pennylane100
(3,425 posts)Of course use slurs to demean other men, one would have to live as a hermit not to have heard it used in that way. What I find surprising is the reaction to Samantha Bee's use of the word. While I did not see her show (I have it recorded and will watch it later), I presume it was to do with her appearance in Jerusalem I may have missed the same outrage at her celebrating while hundreds of innocent civilians were being slaughtered.
If Samantha called her the C word because of that, I second that.
Also, just curious, but did you express outrage then. I am willing to believe you did.
hlthe2b
(101,698 posts)I don't watch her show, for what it is worth.
pennylane100
(3,425 posts)hlthe2b
(101,698 posts)truly believe in adapting to differences in the countries I visit.
Too bad you don't feel the need for such respect.
MicaelS
(8,747 posts)Riiight.
Happens here all the time. Men across the board get called all sorts of names referring to the male genitalia or sex acts. No one gets PPR'd over that. And, don't talk that discrimination rhetoric, it is just another example of "Do as I say, not as I do."
hlthe2b
(101,698 posts)I'd bet you never had a gender-based slur used against you (and others of your gender) in the work place. Have you?
Wrong, but not the same. AT ALL~!
moriah
(8,311 posts)Even tbe previously-potent "worst word to call a man", a "bastard", refers to female sexual conduct as the reason the word ever was insulting.
I'm aware that historically, before the language split and evolved, that the bawdy play on the word was prevalent in literature, even famous plays.
But obviously language has changed. We eat custard and jelly, you watch it. We put a bonnet on our head and boots on our feet, you open bonnets to add oil and put groceries in boots. We try to get our bums help, you sit on yours (edit to add: another place where our word is perjoratively used while yours is polite for what you're referencing). Etc.
Here, it didn't evolve to common use in a good way. It evolved into a term that was decidedly negative and exclusively used against women.
quartz007
(1,216 posts)which rhymes with Hunt, to address the female judge, and see what happens to you!
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)It IS, for whatever reason, totally different than calling a guy, ME for instance, a dick head. (Which I can be sometimes,)
Response to pnwmom (Reply #95)
pangaia This message was self-deleted by its author.
mercuryblues
(14,489 posts)it is an entirely different connotation. It is ALWAYS used to degenerate women as it is referring to them as dirty disgusting, immoral body parts. it is used to degrade women with a vile term. Even when, which is very seldom, it is used to describe men the connotation is still there. It is referring to a man as being a dirty disgusting, immoral female genitalia.
It is a vile term no matter who says it and who it refers to.
Hekate
(90,189 posts)Yes, in this country the so-called C-word is every bit as offensive as the so-called N-word. The OP should modify her subject line accordingly.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)When used by a woman, it doesn't carry the same baggage.
To continue the analogy to the n-word, some people do get to use it.
hlthe2b
(101,698 posts)Orsino
(37,428 posts)I have heard it used affectionately by women.
Bee wasn't using it affectionately, but I give her a pass for her gender--even though I also find the word offensive.
hlthe2b
(101,698 posts)lived through its horrific use and aftereffects in the work place. Does that even matter to you one iota as you defend its use, despite the pain it brings to so many who experienced this? Does it? At all?
Orsino
(37,428 posts)It matters more than an iota to me, but I don't get to tell women not to use the word.
hlthe2b
(101,698 posts)willing to let such derogatory terms go on juries. Those who keep using it will take their chances and I'm betting it won't be a "long run".
You say you can't tell other women what to say? Would you not tell someone to stop calling a POC the "n" word? REALLY?
Orsino
(37,428 posts)But as long as we're discussing the n-word, I don't get to police all its usages by black people, either, because there are layers of meaning I don't fully understand, and I have a notion that my privilege isn't necessarily welcome.
A DU ban, with which I would concur, has nothing to do with whether a female entertainer uses it to vent.
Because context is all. It matters who says a word, and it matters who hears it. I don't use either word, except carefully in discussions about the words themselves. Very carefully. I think that you and I should discourage their use in most situations, in hopes that either the words will vanish or lose their uglier connotations.
hlthe2b
(101,698 posts)that some feel the need to use gender slurs at all, but even quoting, like the N-word, should not appear in full.
pennylane100
(3,425 posts)The word bitch was often used, sometimes by men(it was in the nineties. We decided that if you were considered a bitch, it was important to be the best bitch you could be. We turned it into a badge of honor.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)Even as a verb.
Shrike47
(6,913 posts)hlthe2b
(101,698 posts)I've had decades of this crap and NO YOU DON'T get to be the arbiter for all women (assuming you are a woman).
The fact is that if ANY members of a group consider a term to be a slur, to use it is to show utter contempt for those people. If that's what YOU want to convey, then so be it. You use it here though towards me or other women, I sincerely hope you face the consequences.
quartz007
(1,216 posts)you are in court for any reason. And post here what happened if they have internet in jail.
seaglass
(8,170 posts)right now.
Love Samantha Bee, despise Ivanka Trump but this is no good.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I'm missing your point.
"CNN doing a segment now...anchors are outraged"
That is referred to as Thursday at CNN.
Borchkins
(722 posts)I don't want to hear it, ever, from anybody.
pennylane100
(3,425 posts)take a pair of ear muffs.
Borchkins
(722 posts)MrsCoffee
(5,801 posts)that mean something completely different than it does here. Cigarettes and food.
I bet we would see some outrage if she called someone that.
That excuse just doesn't fly in my world, sorry.
moriah
(8,311 posts)And don't even get me started on how you guys managed to call us Septics.
But this is an American discussion board, and I am not nearly as offended if it's two guys calling each other that.
Here, it NEVER is.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)I cant remember hearing any of them use that word.
pennylane100
(3,425 posts)I left the UK many years ago and heard that word often. I worked as a temp in offices all over London, from law firms to mom pop offices in basements and it was often used. My family never used it but it was hard not to hear it at works and especially in pubs.
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)Glad for my world.
I too have spent a lot of time in the UK. Just not a word I heard a lot either.
OnDoutside
(19,905 posts)I wonder is the word only used towards women in America, because in Ireland its use is generic, and I've heard it overwhelmingly used in reference to men here, And not only in a provocative way either. It's an odd one.
lame54
(35,130 posts)"Hey, you."
Very common phrase
moriah
(8,311 posts)... and exclusively used towards women.
Here's a video that was made (yes, this is the censored version) during the 2008 election when McCain's bad mouth got him into trouble, it was alleged that he'd "had a bad day" and said this in front of witnesses.
It definitely demonstrates the American attitude towards the word when used by men against women. (I'm not going to get into whether it's "okay" for a woman to target another woman with that insult -- personally, I think if you aren't using it in the actual reclaimed sense, where it's no longer a bad word or an insult, it's essentially embracing the oppressor and especially when she essentially said she should seduce her Dad as part of it, wow -- but I don't have an issue with two guys calling one another that.)
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/5ca76b6e56/he-said-it-first-censored-from-election08
pangaia
(24,324 posts)NewJeffCT
(56,827 posts)but, I know it's different when it's a woman saying it.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Blue_Adept
(6,384 posts)I am amused that it's taken about twelve hours since the event for there to be a single thread about it.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,096 posts)people who harm many others every day of their lives.
What do we call them?
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)quartz007
(1,216 posts)against you, address her as cunt, and see what happens to you.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,096 posts)quartz007
(1,216 posts)Eliot Rosewater
(31,096 posts)quartz007
(1,216 posts)calling any female cunt by any one, male or female crosses the line. Same thing with using the N-word to a person of African ancestry. Not OK.
Do you agree with above? If yes, I have no further issues with your post.
And I never said you used the C-word. I got the impression from your post it was OK if someone called her that. If I mis-construed your post, I am sorry.
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)Me.
(35,454 posts)and do not appreciate seeing it here
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Wait a minute....
MrsCoffee
(5,801 posts)Thanks for speaking up.
karynnj
(59,474 posts)cancelled. Using that kind of language to attack someone - rather than calling them out for things they do, is completely inappropriate. We can not be seen as tolerating this because we don't like the Trumps.
As to Trump, I can remember my dad saying hundreds of times, 2 wrongs do not make a write -- and he was right on that.
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)Interesting.
FSogol
(45,355 posts)demmiblue
(36,742 posts)She crossed the line, imo.
mythology
(9,527 posts)Doesn't matter who says it, doesn't matter who they say it against.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Didn't hear outrage from CNN about that.
Women can use the word, and it's different.
SharonClark
(10,005 posts)There would be outrage on DU, and rightly so, if Sarah Palin or Ivanka Trump called another woman that word.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Sam is a feminist, and she doesn't insult women.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,096 posts)we dont need to be lectured to because he IS EXACTLY THAT.
Ivanka is a HORRID and VILE person who harms many on a daily basis, I need to know what word to call her or someone like her because I will NOT call them something that represents respect.
At the same time I wont call her an animal...but you all better give me a descripitve word for this
VILE
FILTHY
DISGUSTING
RACIST
BIGOTED
THIEVEING
FASCIST
TRAITOR
or I am gonna lose it.
elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)Unlike abortion and shit maybe we women should decide if it's offensive.
I prefer asshole. It's universal.
moriah
(8,311 posts)... male dominance as expressed through sexual metaphor, especially male on male dominance, is not exactly promoting the idea that sex and power don't mix well without safewords... not to mention has reflections of societal prejudices about receptive partners in homosexual relationships....
Was discussed extensively here, if not exactly in words with so many syllables.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Bengus81
(6,907 posts)You could have pinned down Ivanka without this........
kcr
(15,300 posts)Is no better than a Trumper. Go away.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Cuthbert Allgood
(4,857 posts)They knew what they were getting when they put her on the air. And what they were getting was fucking awesome. She'll be fine--your outraged excepted, of course.
Bengus81
(6,907 posts)I don't care that she took Ivanka to task,but she could have accomplished the same without the language. Now of course the RW wants to frame the conversation with her,when before hand Barr didn't have a leg to stand on nor did Shitler.
Looks like Bee is going to make some kind of statement about HER comments on her show.
SharonClark
(10,005 posts)It doesn't matter whether the user is a male or female.
It doesn't matter whether the user is a Brit or American.
It doesn't matter whether you are 'allies' with the caller or not.
It is the worse thing you can call a female and should never be accepted.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)ChubbyStar
(3,191 posts)And that "word" is perfect to describe Trumps repugnant spawn. I love Sam, she just fucking rocks.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Eliot Rosewater
(31,096 posts)anybody who doesnt understand that better and quick.
One side are horrific traitors and fascists, the other side are decent patriots.
This is not a joke.
moriah
(8,311 posts)Are there other times a truly vile word has a place because it communicates a level of outrage no other word can in the moment?
Potentially. We have a huge language, though. Bee combined a rare word, feckless (which describes Ivanka perfectly) with the insult for the punch of it. Is the punch really necessary in such a monologue? Perhaps, perhaps not. Thread title on DU? Censor yourself, because this forum does have certain standards.
I remember a long time ago in a land far away when DU juries were very different, there'd been a story posted about a woman who had murdered an infant. A user here who had been having extremely severe fertility troubles had said something to the point of she believed in choice until the baby was out, but after that... and called the woman the c-word. There was contentious debate.
I love our language and don't necessarily think every word is off-limits from use or view ever in any context, or I'd be with those trying to ban To Kill A Mockingbird.
If I'm going to see the c-word, I'd rather it be from my friends who are heavily into reclaiming, living in intentional community, discussing the book by that title amongst women. Not ever the Bee I normally love using it while at the same time suggesting she play on the already disgusting feeling vibe Trump gives off about his daughter.
Strangely enough, had the insult not been followed by the suggestion to try to use that grossness (when that is the one place where I actually have sympathy for Ivanka) for the good of these kids, I'd be more on Bee's side, but she sexualized the "word drop" so there's no doubt it was intended as a sexist smear. And even from one woman to another, that shit's not cool.
kcr
(15,300 posts)And look. Even here. The concern trolls predictably showing up.
Have seen several tweets from Trumpers trying to lay claim to their bona fides as feminists over this while wailing over Barr. Don't watch SB. She does perform for a US audience and certainly should have been cognizant of controversy, unless it was intentional. Perhaps it was a lame attempt at playing on the British royal motif. If so, US audiences are blissfully ignorant of British ussges.
Thomas Hurt
(13,903 posts)so that everyone is on the same page as to what is a slur, epithet and insult and who can use them.
Get em all in there, gender, ethnicity, skin color, religious, class, sexual orientation.
One easy to reference source...
B2G
(9,766 posts)Imagine the outrages if a woman called Hillary that.
kcr
(15,300 posts)B2G
(9,766 posts)kcr
(15,300 posts)Every white guy scratching their heads over this one very likely has the same confusion over the n word. This seems very much a typical Gee, if I can't use that slur then why should they! kind of complaint.
B2G
(9,766 posts)I have no confusion, you seem to. Using the word cunt to describe a female is wrong no matter how much you disagree with or dislike a person. If you had bothered to read the thread, I was calling into question the posters who think it's OK as long as a woman is the one hurling the word.
But please do continue your knee jerking if it makes you feel superior.
kcr
(15,300 posts)Women are equally capable of being stupid. I still think you're confused about the n word because you haven't even addressed it. I am, aren't I?
B2G
(9,766 posts)I think you simply have a problem with me and you're looking like a fucking pretzel trying to put words in my mouth or something.
kcr
(15,300 posts)Yes, the post is about the C word and the argument that it doesn't matter if it's a man or a woman using it. That argument is JUST like the one clueless white people use about the N word. In other words, the whole thing stinks of getting back at the left for Roseanne, because anyone with an ounce of any capability of understanding any nuance can understand there is a difference.
B2G
(9,766 posts)Because I haven't seen you address that.
As long as we're picking nits.
kcr
(15,300 posts)It is a slur and I don't use it, but I'm not a comedian. It's simply nowhere near the equivalent of what Roseanne did and her show shouldn't be canceled. This really isn't hard.
B2G
(9,766 posts)I haven't even referenced Roseanne is this thread.
WTF?
kcr
(15,300 posts)This isn't your OP.
B2G
(9,766 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Some reading of the Egyptian pyramids, their construction methods, and the mechanism of labor used may calm you down.
I often find that a good historical treatise does wonders to sooth ruffled feathers.
ChubbyStar
(3,191 posts)You are twisting pretzels and barking up the wrong tree. You must be exhausted!
kcr
(15,300 posts)ChubbyStar
(3,191 posts)Please, stop frothing. Poor caddying!
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Yeah, I'm down with that.
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)No female comedian refers to herself as a comedienne. WAY outdated.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)And there are male comedians who are feminist.
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)Wtf?
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)I might well say WTF to the objection to the spelling of Comedienne....
nini
(16,670 posts)context always applies.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,096 posts)txliberal2016
(9 posts)Ivanka grins like a Cheshire Cat while people get slaughtered just a stones throw from her big photo Op.her father separates children from their mothers. the least we can do is call her names,I have no doubt president brain worms has called her that too.
wryter2000
(46,016 posts)If the only way she can insult Ivanka is to use a sexually demeaning word, she needs to think harder. And she needs to apologize.
Edited to add, apologize to her viewers, not to Trump. I frankly don't care about their feelings.
ADX
(1,622 posts)...with that being said, the "c-word" is not in my roster of curse words. It's extremely vile and is among the worst things one can call a woman, in my opinion.
Just my two cents, YMMV.
Gothmog
(143,998 posts)octoberlib
(14,971 posts)Why give them ammunition? What Ivanka Trump did was vile but there has to be a better way of putting it.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)octoberlib
(14,971 posts)same thing .
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)lame54
(35,130 posts)It's those who force apologies who are not helping
Eliot Rosewater
(31,096 posts)anymore.
The filth that supports that horrid vile woman Ivanka, ARE going to react VERY differently if and when justice comes.
Words will be the LAST thing we will care about when those ignorant, armed assholes start shooting.
amuse bouche
(3,657 posts)Samantha Bee's great point has been overshadowed because of her use of the word.
That is the real shame.
octoberlib
(14,971 posts)NoMoreRepugs
(9,257 posts)a word Sam B. used to describe (perfectly I might add) one of the inner circle that threatens our way of life.
Give me a break people - this is the greatest street fight in our history and too many here are concerned with manners and rules and etiquette - you think the Repugs give a shit about any of those things???
Do not lecture me on the high road and all that crap. You want to win? Get ready to get really dirty and a little bloody along the way.
RobinA
(9,874 posts)the greatest street fight of our history, I hope people will soon stop bringing the dull weapon that is a slur to the fight and use some actual words. Calling Ivanka Trump a c--- is not going to win any battle.
RobinA
(9,874 posts)sounds more and more like an elementary school playground. Name calling back and forth followed by loud accusations followed by even louder explanations by each side as to why THEIR name calling is OK, but the other side's name calling is far worse. Maybe people need to develop their verbal skills to the point that they can use actual language to get their points across rather than just flinging slurs.
Vinca
(50,168 posts)had better not be too verklempt over the incident given the number of "Hillary Is a C***" shirts and signs seen at Trump events.
REP
(21,691 posts)Not all feminists think the dreaded C word is the omg worst thing ever. Some even want to reclaim it, as PoC have done with the N word. Others will use the vast English lexicon however they choose, without regard to how weve been taught to gather up our skirts in horror at the C word.
jodymarie aimee
(3,975 posts)in the end, it is a word. It is not a concentration camp, or physical abuse...Is Is A Word. Sheesh...there I go capitalizing again !!
RobinA
(9,874 posts)The only way to take the power out of a slur (for those who give it power) is to stomp it to death with over usage.
avebury
(10,946 posts)all the crap Trump, his minions, and Rethugs in Congress pull every single day. I would ask the MSM why they spend so much time on crap like this when Trump, his family and minions and Congress are destroying this country. When will you (i.e. the MSM) start putting country ahead of profits?
Beacool
(30,244 posts)There are two words that I truly hate: the "N" word for AA and the "C" word for women. I don't care who it's used against, find another way to insult someone. I think that Ivanka is as much of a waste of space as Trump's other weaselly spawn, but I wished Samantha had said what she said without using that word.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)who crushes the poor under her heel 24/7.
Its rough as hell when her corrupt criminal daddy get bribes from foreign governments that gives her exclusive rights to the biggest markets in the worlds and the common scum don't appreciate it and call her names!
The poor thing! I weep for her!!!
Oh the fucking humanity!!!!!
GO SAM BEE!!!!!
Calista241
(5,584 posts)shit.
piss.
fuck.
cunt.
cocksucker.
motherfucker.
tits.
pennylane100
(3,425 posts)is that the real outrage is barely mentioned. THE MASS MURDER OF HUNDREDS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE.
Samantha Bee referred to Ivanka using a derogatory term describing her anatomy.. The reason she did so was the SLAUGHTER of hundreds of innocent people while she, IVANKA, celebrated.. The event that triggered that slaughter was, in my opinion, solely the responsibility of Donald Trump when he decided to move to Embassy to an area that was considered sacred to three major religions. Where are our priorities.
The_jackalope
(1,660 posts)Sheela na gigs are figurative carvings of naked women displaying an exaggerated vulva. They are architectural grotesques found all over Europe on churches, castles, and other buildings.
Hekate
(90,189 posts)empedocles
(15,751 posts)whose shithole, pussy grabbing, etc crap gets broadcast and penetrates to every age level, every language, all around the world - with a uniquely high ethical, moral, civic, civilized, decency, national reputation, tremendous cost!!!
GreatCaesarsGhost
(8,584 posts)moriah
(8,311 posts)But for one more more appropriate place to link how that word inspired controversy, and for those defending it who "aren't from here" and don't understand the impact, it's pretty clear about how Americans feel about the word.
demmiblue
(36,742 posts)hlthe2b
(101,698 posts)Tipperary
(6,930 posts)I cannot believe how many i have had to trash lately.
MineralMan
(146,189 posts)Upon learning that people responded badly to its use, I stopped using it right away. It's not part of my active vocabulary.