Very insightful analysis from Rebecca Traister re: Roseanne/Samantha brouhaha

[catbyte]

Thread by @rtraister: "Sarah Huckabee Sanders is upset about "silence from the left" re Sam Bee calling Ivanka a "feckless cunt" for swanning around on social media...


1. Language's ability to inflict harm depends on power of who's wielding it & against whom it's being wielded. Not just individuals, ie, it's not about Bee/Ivanka or Roseanne/Jarrett, all of whom have power. It's about power of entities & ideas individuals are representing.
2. So when Bee goes after Ivanka for supporting an administration that's doing grievous harm to the bodies, families, lives of human beings, she's acting on behalf of less powerful people (immigrants ripped from their children) against the grotesquely powerful & abusive.
3. You can not like the word "cunt" for feminist reasons; you can--& should!--think about why a term for female anatomy is such a potent pejorative. But use of it in this context is not reinforcing or replicating the crude harm it has been used to inflict historically...
4. ie the patriarchal diminishment & vilification of women. In fact, Bee is using it to critique a woman precisely because that woman is acting ON BEHALF OF THAT PATRIARCHY, one which systematically diminishes women, destroys families, hurts kids, especially non-white.
5. It is fundamentally different from Roseanne comparing Jarrett to an ape, a racist locution w deep racist roots, bc unlike Bee's deployment of cunt AGAINST a misogynistic, racist administration, Roseanne's racism is deployed IN SUPPORT OF a racist, misogynistic administration..

....snip

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1002250985035706368.html
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The entire thread is worth reading.

[Me.]

1. What I Like Is That It Explains Why

historically the term is a slur..."the patriarchal diminishment & vilification of women"

[MontanaMama]

2. K&R.

Excellent read. A darned shame that the folks who need to read it won’t.

[RandomAccess]

3. You mean insightful rationalization

And absolutely wrong, wrong, wrong:

You can not like the word "cunt" for feminist reasons; you can--& should!--think about why a term for female anatomy is such a potent pejorative. But use of it in this context is not reinforcing or replicating the crude harm it has been used to inflict historically...

You cannot separate its use against a single individual from that historical and wider context. It cannot be done. The use of it harms ALL women -- women we like, women we don't like.

Jess McIntosh, who was part of Hillary Clinton's campaign and can be found every now and then on MSNBC and perhaps elsewhere) was on MSNBC via phone earlier and had this to say (paraphrased, of course):

The use of these terms empowers the right wing to pass legislation and implement other policy that strips away rights for women and diminishes our ability to be a fully equal part of society.

It doesn't matter who's calling who -- the use of it at all, its long history, its vile impact, the degrading dehumanization -- all of that conspire against ALL women.

I'm very upset that Samantha Bee doesn't understand that. And I'm always devastated when people on DU get confused about it or frankly don't WANT to understand that.

Gender slurs of any and all kinds ALWAYS harm ALL women, just as surely as all racist comments and slurs and all homophobic slurs harm their targets and ultimately result in actual physical harm to the members of the targeted groups.

YOU CANNOT RATIONALIZE THE REAL HARM AND EFFECTS AWAY.

Oh, and hot tip: There are ALWAYS a bunch of words that can be used instead, probably more accurate and more descriptive.

[mythology]

4. I agree with this

She was using the word as a slur as a way to cause harm.

[RandomAccess]

5. Yes, exactly

[MrsCoffee]

7. Well said.

[Rebl2]

11. Thank you

for speaking up. You explained it perfectly in my opinion why that word should never be used. Like you said there are many other intelligent words that could be used to get your point across.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

6. Excellent. Deployment of swear word AGAINST misogyny & racism vs racism deployed to SUPPORT racism.

rtraister nailed it.

[mcar]

8. K&R

[treestar]

9. But by that logic one could use the N word on Cain or Carson

[renate]

10. All insightful points. I still think Samantha Bee screwed up. Just less than Roseanne did

I think it reduces the impact of our objections to Roseanne's words when we try to wholly excuse Samantha Bee's. There are ALL kinds of differences between the two situations, but we don't have to decide whether one is wrong and the other is right. IMO, one is horribly, utterly wrong and one is meh wrong.

Roseanne's tweet was hateful and vile and racist. She deserved what happened to her.

Samantha's choice of words was offensive to many people. (Not to me. To me, the intent behind offensive words matters a million times more than the words themselves.) One reason her choice of words bugs me is that it was gratuitous. That particular word didn't add anything to her statement; sometimes an offensive word hits the spot and any substitution would lessen the effect, and sometimes it's just offensive and unnecessary. "Cow" would have worked almost as well as the word she chose and offended nobody, and I don't know whether "bitch" would have raised many eyebrows, though probably some.

It was an unforced error, but Sam certainly doesn't need to be fired for it. Offensive language =/= racism.

[Hangdog Slim]

12. Brilliant and Trenchant response

A Brilliant and Trenchant response from Ms. Traister. May I add there is no equivalent insult of a white person to a black person being called an "ape".

[CrankyMa]

13. I've never understood the dissing of the cunts

I've never understood the dissing of the cunts.

As an owner, I can say cunts are awesome!

I've been called a cunt so many times that I'm used to it now.

Most people who call me a cunt are straight men. They seem to think this is some kind of insult.

I don't see it as an insult at all.

They usually want cunts. A lot.

They may not want my cunt in particular that they want, but cunts are, overall, are very, very, desired by these men.

As far as I can tell, the are calling me something that they greatly desire.



It's sort of the same as with the insult "Suck my d*ck".

The men who say this act as if this is also an insult or something that is demeaning.

But they also realy, really seem to want this.

Once again, it's something they desire.

If they want my cunt or want me to suck their d*icks, they had better treat me well.

These kinds of lame insults tell me that the person who is attempting to use these comments as an insult are not qualified to either visit with my cunt or to have me suck their d*cks.

I really do appreciate these types identifying themselves right up front.