Yosemite's lost valley will be subject of vote (Hetch Hetchy)

[cali]

YOSEMITE NATIONAL PARK, Calif. (AP) — This fall San Franciscans will vote on a local measure with national implications: It could return to the American people a flooded gorge described as the twin of breathtaking Yosemite Valley.

Voters will decide whether they want a plan for draining the 117-billion-gallon Hetch Hetchy reservoir in Yosemite National Park, exposing for the first time in 80 years a glacially carved, granite-ringed valley of towering waterfalls 17 miles north of its more famous geologic sibling.

The November ballot measure asks: Should city officials devise a modern water plan that incorporates recycling and study expansion of other storage reservoirs to make up the loss?

The measure could eventually undo a controversial century-old decision by Congress that created the only reservoir in a national park and slaked the thirst of a city 190 miles away.

Read more: http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/article/Yosemite-s-lost-valley-will-be-subject-of-vote-3762505.php#ixzz22cR6ovDz

[Brother Buzz]

1. Here's a 1911 photograph that shows a bit more of the valley's grandeur

If the dam was removed, it would not be a pleasant place to visit in my lifetime

[Xithras]

4. You'd be suprised

Most of the more recent research indicates that it would be a fairly pleasant grassy meadow within a decade. Other than the bathtub ring on the rocks and the absence of large trees, within 25 years it would be difficult to tell that there had been a lake there at all.

[Brother Buzz]

5. I've heard that

and nature's resilience often surprises me, but what about the sediments? Have any idea how full the valley may be? Flooding downstream could be disastrous. I'm reminded of the massive flooding and mud flowsaround the Marysville area in the 1870s and 1880s created by the hydraulic mining upstream. Eighty-ninety years accumulated sediments stored in Hetch Hetchy valley released in one good 10-20-50 year storm could prove to be wicked to the agricultural lands downstream, not to mention the residents, roads, bridges, ranches and businesses, too. This is ONE place a gold plated EPA report needs to be prepared and filed, and it need to be spot-on.

[XemaSab]

6. The sediments would be dumped into Don Pedro

Which I'm sure the irrigation district would not appreciate.

[Xithras]

23. Sedimentation isn't a huge problem in Hetch Hetchy

The bottom of the lake has been checked, and it's estimated that only a few feet of sediment have been added to a few spots since the dam was built. Many portions of the lake have no sediment at all. Why not? Because Hetch Hetchy is very high up in the Yosemite Backcountry and the vast majority of the water flows in off the granite. There's really not a lot of topsoil in Yosemite TO erode.

Of course, there's also the fact that the valley floor itself was already made of sediment anyway. Hetch Hetchy Valley, like Yosemite Valley to the south, was a lake in the postglacial period. It took more than 10,000 years to do it, but the small amount of sediment that DOES flow into the gorge turned it into the flat bottomed valley that existed prior to the early 1900's. Adding a few more feet of sediment here and there won't be a huge detriment to its revival, as it will really just mimic the processes that created it in the first place. Some of the proposals have even suggesting leaving a few feet of the dam at one end, which would leave a much smaller lake behind it. This would catch any sediment washing down from the higher, dry parts of the former lakebed and would eventually fill itself in, rebuilding a natural meadow using the same processes that created the original valley floor.

[Brother Buzz]

26. Cool, my concerns have been addressed and the sky isn't going to fall

Succinct post. Thank you

[liberal N proud]

27. The earth heals it's self much quicker than you think

As long as there are no toxic chemicals that would inhibit growth, it will reclaim glory quickly.

Even if not in our lifetime, our children's maybe.

[joeybee12]

2. Interesting sides...Pelosi and DiFi against, Repukes for restoration...

I think if it can be done, it should be done...it's righting a very bad wrong.

[CreekDog]

10. because it hurts millions of voters from San Francisco to San Jose

Ultimately, I do think dams should come down, but to me, the best justification for a dam is if it provides drinking water and efficiently used, which is what Hetch Hetchy does, more than any other dam.

Hetch Hetchy provides drinking water which San Francisco residents use less of per person than most cities. Hetch Hetchy provides power to run San Francisco's public transportation and San Francisco harnesses that power by a network of power lines than and electric buses (which operate better on hills than diesels).

Whatever is done about Hetch Hetchy should be studied very carefully and not done in a hasty way.

Why would Reagan's enivornmental appointees and Dan Lundgren and other Republicans advocate to tear Hetch Hetchy down (meanwhile, they'd never say that about Glen Canyon Dam)? Because of whom it hurts.

Make sure there is a workable plan before going forward with this.

[unapatriciated]

25. off subject

The Glenn Canyon Dam was my dad's first job in contruction. He worked on many of the major bridges in California as well as overpasses in Yosemite.

My Dad and Mom Glenn Canyon bridge late 1950's

[CreekDog]

33. wow! before the dam!

what a great find. thank you for sharing it.

[Raine]

3. I hope this will pass. nt

[UnrepentantLiberal]

7. It would be great if it passed.

[Le Taz Hot]

8. Right. Like the Bay Aryans

are going to vote for Hetch Hetchy restoration. They're environmentally friendly right up to the time it affects them. I hope I'm wrong but I just don't see this happening.

As an aside, John Muir tirelessly fought against the raping of Yosemite's second Valley but the sentiment was for San Francisco at the time because of the big earthquake.

[CreekDog]

11. Thanks for hating us

We've been voting in huge margins to defeat candidates that you don't like so that the rest of the country doesn't have to.

We've been voting against our self interest for decades now and this is the nastiness we get from you.

I'm a Bay Area resident who might vote for Hetch Hetchy restoration once we get some of the best uses of that water ironed out (water rights in CA are tricky business and I want to make sure MUNI and drinking water are planned for before moving forward).

Unlike most dams, this one actually helps individuals and public transit more than any other dam you can name, so yes, one should proceed carefully.

[Le Taz Hot]

13. I don't hate you.

I'm just giving back some of the love Bay Areans have always had for the Central Valley farmers and residents.

[CreekDog]

14. then you do hate us

you could at least be honest about it.

[Le Taz Hot]

16. Oh, don't be silly.

I don't hate people I don't know and I would never presume to "know" virtually anonymous persons on a message board.

[CreekDog]

17. then what was calling us hypocrites and thing about the farmers?

if you weren't saying we hate you, are hypocrites and you're just returning the same, then what?

and who the hell hates central valley farmers?

i have issues with those who fight any regulation to protect the environment, but you guys live with the effects of massive air pollution and massive water pollution, not me. if you want to be angry with me, a Bay Area voter who wants your environment to be friendlier to your people, your children --call that hate, but that's not what it is.

[Le Taz Hot]

18. Oh, Christ.

This is like "debating" with a winger.

1. I never called anyone a hypocrite.
2. I never said I hated anyone.
3. Central Valley residents and farmers are regularly denigrated, especially on this board. I could name the specific DUers but that would be against the rules. You can, however, check the California board. There's a particular DUer who obsesses about the area and, regularly mines stories about the Central Valley for negative reports and posts them. Mind you, she doesn't actually live here which makes the whole thing really weird.
4. Funny you should mention air quality. First off, we DO adhere to very strict standards -- if we don't, our federal monies are cut off. Our pollution is from three basic sources: a) Hwys 99 and 5 containing cars and trucks constantly going up and down the Valley, b) pollution that drifts down from Sacramento, which IS under air quality standards and c) San Francisco WHICH IS EXEMPT FROM AIR QUALITY STANDARDS. So, your accusation of "fighting any regulation" was inaccurate.
5. I have no idea what the rant about water pollution standards is about which makes it impossible to debate baseless accusations.

I find it terribly amusing after being called "hayseed," "redneck," "banjo plucker," "ignorant hick" and a whole lot of other very condescending names ALWAYS FROM BAY ARYANS and the first time somebody says something in the slightest bit negative about you guys you whine like a spoiled child.

Now, this was an off-the-cuff post of mine HOURS ago and I would like to focus on the shooting. Go get a bandaid for your boo-boo and get over it.

I'm done here.

[CreekDog]

19. San Francisco is exempt from air quality standards? No. Completely made up.

also according to you, no pollution occurs from agricultural activities.

transport of air pollution is an issue but only in the areas of the Central Valley with the least air pollution. the areas with the worst, like Bakersfield, it is a minor contributor.

and with respect to particulate pollution, the Bakersfield area is nearly the worst in the USA and this particular type of pollution is not from the Bay Area at all.

what you've posted about air pollution is so completely wrong that i'll call it a lie. deliberate misinformation on your part or complete ignorance.

[CreekDog]

20. San Francisco IS NOT EXEMPT from air quality standards

period.

http://www.baaqmd.gov/~/media/Files/Planning%20and%20Research/Plans/PM%20Planning/PM_FAQs_July_2012_final.ashx

incredible misinformation from you.

[CreekDog]

21. also, you don't adhere to very strict standards, your area violates them

more severely than nearly any area in the United States.

[CreekDog]

34. please don't call the most diverse region in the US "Aryans".

"Areans" is what you should have suits, but in your carelessness, much, like your parts about the Clean Air Act, you were irresponsible and wrong.

[Skinner]

9. I went backpacking around the Hetch Hetchy reservoir about 20 years ago.

It was spectacular, even as a reservoir rather than a valley.

As we were leaving, we stopped and talked to a park ranger who worked at the entrance to the park. He said how our visit was, and we said great and told him how beautiful the reservoir was. He sails something that stuck with me ever since:

He said, "It is beautiful, if that's what you like -- made by man instead of made by God."

I think the reservoir should be drained. The Hetch Hechy valley would be an amazing thing to see.

[closeupready]

31. By way of analogy, 2 years ago, on a daytrip to upstate NY,

near Woodstock (well, okay, technically, not quite "upstate" but Hudson Valley area), the forest ranger on duty explained that while the area looks untouched now, with richly forested mountainsides, in fact at the turn of the 20th Century all of the virgin, old-growth forest cover had been cut down. They had photos, too, of clear-cut mountains.

So yes, nature can and does recover from man's interference, and while I haven't been there, I agree with you that I would like to see the reservoir drained, and the area restored.

[slackmaster]

12. It wouldn't be a pretty sight if they drained the reservoir now

It would take centuries for the environment to restore itself.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

28. Nope, Nature will get some help -

"The dam will be removed down to the former streambed elevation at 3500 feet, with the outlet restored using pre-dam photographs. In recontouring the valley and stabilizing the river banks, the goal will be to mimic the native terrain using historical accounts and scientific data.

Deconstruction will require the use of heavy equipment, and some rough roads may need to be built for access. These can later be eliminated or converted to trails. Alternatively, a conveyor system could be used; this would be the least environmentally damaging means of removing materials from the valley and could be later modified to act as the means of transporting visitors into the valley.

As the reservoir is drained and the valley floor is exposed, aggressive replanting of native plants will take place as soon as the soil dries sufficiently. Revegetation will consist in planting a mixture of native trees and shrubs consisting of black oaks, white alder, black cottonwood, Douglas fir, dogwood, willow, azalea, manzanita, and ceanothus. The various species of trees and shrubs will be planted in areas where those species originally occurred, along with an understory of herbaceous plants.

Native bunch grasses and sedges would be collected and propagated before the reservoir is drained. These will be planted in meadows and oak woodlands as these habitats return following drainage. Complete restoration will involve planting approximately 100,000 trees and shrubs, dense planting of bunch grasses, and widespread seeding of native meadow and woodland species for ground cover."

http://www.hetchhetchy.org/how/how-will-the-valley-be-restored

[slackmaster]

30. It would be necessary to find a place to dump all the accumulated silt

The Astute Reader(TM) will note the word "silt" does not appear in the linked page.

[closeupready]

32. "centuries" - not necessarily.

See my response to Skinner above.

[mulsh]

15. Any idea Dan Lungren and Reagan admin. people have is suspect.

Getting rid of SF's primary water source is suicidal and in the long run another criminal scheme backed by corrupt Former Attorney General/carpetbagger congressman Lungren and easily exposed Reagan admin crooks.

You guys over in SF should look into who ever these republican con artists have lined up to take over water and power deliver. I'll bet the potential "job creation" will be staggering. And completely rigged. I doubt EBMUD will be willing to siphon off much of our snow melt derived water. I wouldn't put much faith in benefiting from Jerry's canal/delta plan, he's been pimping for that think since his first terms.

As the current mayor says ""This is a ridiculous idea," Mayor Ed Lee said. "It's a Trojan Horse for those that wish to have our public tricked into believing we have an adequate substitute for the Hetch Hetchy reservoir. We do not. There isn't any."

[Hell Hath No Fury]

24. Ed Lee is a tool.

Part of the plan (which has been a goal of CA environmentalists and around for just about as long as I can remember) would be to create new, downstream underground reservoirs for the runoff.

Here are some of the "RW" groups supporting the RHH ballot initiative:


The Sierra Club
Environmental Defense Fund
Tuolumne Me-Wuk Tribal Council
American Rivers
Planning and Conservation League
Earthjustice
Mono Lake Committee
National Wildlife Federation
Natural Heritage Institute
Northern California Council, Federation of Fly Fishers
Ohlone Audubon Society
Central Sierra Audubon Society
Save The Bay
Sierra Nevada Alliance
South Yuba River Citizens League
The Bay Institute
Urban Creeks Council
Eastern Madera County Chamber of Commerce

http://www.hetchhetchy.org/

Where will San Francisco's water be stored?

“Would you like some Hetch Hetchy water?” your waiter might say. San Francisco has long associated its water supply with Hetch Hetchy, but the city’s water comes from the mighty Tuolumne River system – Hetch Hetchy is just where some of that water has been stored over the last century. So if we take the water out of Hetch Hetchy, do we lose the water that San Francisco needs to survive and prosper?

No. San Francisco and other Bay Area communities will continue to receive a reliable supply of high-quality water from the Tuolumne River after Hetch Hetchy Reservoir is drained and the valley returned to the trusteeship of Yosemite National Park. Here’s how that can easily be achieved.

Hetch Hetchy is only one of nine reservoirs that comprise the San Francisco Public Utility Commission’s water system. Although Hetch Hetchy Reservoir is the most well-known, it stores less than 25% of the system’s water. San Francisco’s water-bank in Don Pedro Reservoir, downstream on the Tuolumne River, holds twice as much water as Hetch Hetchy.

Without a reservoir in Hetch Hetchy Valley, a minor new conveyance will be required to divert the Tuolumne River flows and stored water in Cherry and/or Don Pedro Reservoirs into the existing pipeline. On average, diversions of Tuolumne River supplies into the pipeline would be reduced by only 4%.

[mulsh]

35. Great info, thanks. I still don't trust any of the repubs I cited and

I certainly don't trust any of them to have the environment or the public's interests in mind.

It's reassuring to see all the RW groups you've noted. If this issue passes I sincerely hope the above groups closely monitor any restoration or changes to the existing system.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

22. This San Franciscan will be voting to restore -

I believe it will be completely worth the changes we will have to make to have this treasure brought back to life. Conservation, local rain harvesting, plus new downstream reservoirs are a small price to pay.

[Xolodno]

29. I'll believe it will happen when I see it...

...Went hiking to Harden Lake this last Saturday (the long route...very beautiful hike) and was able to see Hetch Hetchy from a distance. Few years ago I did a quick hike to Wampama Falls...didn't bring enough water and did the one thing your not supposed to do, got water from the falls. Best water I ever tasted....oh...and I didn't get sick thankfully (and now I always bring enough gear and supplies).

And yes, its a travesty that this place (as well as Glen Canyon) was ever dammed up. There have been solutions put forward, to provide water, power, etc. for SF, and correcting the sins of the past while still fulfilling the intent is a worth while project. I'm hoping it goes through...but I put it in the category of likely seeing Owens lake restored, just don't have much faith that it will happen.