General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIndictments (Phase Two)
Last edited Mon Jul 16, 2018, 12:51 PM - Edit history (1)
In my Saturday evening post, I focused upon some of the current and future results that are indicated by last week's indictments of 12 Russian military intelligence officers. Today, I'd like to look at those indictments' relationship to some past events. I suspect that a better understanding of the events of 2016 can help us better prepare for both the 2018 and 2020 elections.
Yesterday, Trump and some of his backers claimed this was all Obama's fault. It's safe to say that everything Trump and fiends say is a lie. But there is reason to look closer at what President Obama did in his confronting the situation. President Obama warned Putin to stop interfering with the elections. It's important to note how the Russians had infiltrated state and local voter rolls. It is reasonable to assume they had the capability to either remove Democrats from the rolls, or to flip votes.
At this point, one can only speculate how much damage the Russians may have already done. But what seems clearer is that the step taken by President Obama may have prevented further damage on election day. There are people who believe that President Obama should have done more to assist the Clinton campaign by publicly exposing the Russian operation. However, because it was an active counter-intelligence investigation, he did what he believed was the right thing. I think he did more than the public will ever know.
From the evidence available now, it is evident that the Russian-Trump operation is responsible for Trump's victory in 2016. Hence, while people can correctly note the roles that James Comey, Debbie Wasserman-Schultz, the Clinton and Sanders supporters, and the media played, none of these was in and of themselves the reason Trump won. Rather, the Russian-Trump operation exploited these, and the synergism dictated the election's outcome.
When we fully recognize this reality, it becomes clear that every time someone blames President Obama for not doing enough, Jim Comey for his October notification to Congress, claims Bernie would have defeated Trump, or points to errors in the Clinton campaign's top staff, it only exasperbates the situation. The focus must be on the Russian-Trump conspiracy, in order to best prevent future damage to the Democratic Party. In the words of the Civil Rights movement, we must keep our eyes on the prize.
Next, two things regarding Trump's meeting with Putin. As I noted yesterday while discussing this with kentuck on this forum, it was curious to hear people in the mainstream media ask if Trump would confront Putin on the indictments. The last time I heard a puppet talk back to a puppeteer was in the 1960s, on the Ed Sullivan Show. It's not like Trump was unaware that Putin was helping his campaign.
Finally, regarding if anyone will ever know what Trump and Putin discuss in private, it is important to remember that some of the evidence in this case, actual recordings of Russian military intelligence officers' conversations about the hacking and distribution of e-mails came from the intelligence offices of the nation where Trump and Putin are meeting.
Keep your eyes on the prize!
H2O Man
Zoonart
(11,832 posts)because I think we're at defconx1000. They are not even bothering to hide or obsure the treason.
Today is a low point for our country. It's as if FDR openly sided with Hitler. Except Trump is far more like Adolph than is Putin.
sellitman
(11,605 posts)Just chewing on it is more than I could ever imagine.
Wow.
Thanks
H2O Man
(73,506 posts)I view Trump within the context of sociopathy. Being a retired psychiatric social worker, that is how I can best understand his being and behaviors. And I have anticipated his going all out to destroy our constitutional democracy. Yet, even I am surprised that he would be so open about it today.
malaise
(268,693 posts)Lock him up for the sake of our planet
H2O Man
(73,506 posts)It has been clear since he entered the republican primaries that Trump was running on the white nationalist ticket. Thus, he was supported by the world's leading white nationalist.
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,955 posts)You, sir, are a patriot.
"The focus must be on the Russian-Trump conspiracy". Correct.
H2O Man
(73,506 posts)I figured some of the older folks here would get my feeble attempt at humor!
shraby
(21,946 posts)Finally, regarding if anyone will ever know what Trump and Putin discuss in private, it is important to remember that some of the evidence in this case, actual recordings of Russian military intelligence officers' conversations about the hacking and distribution of e-mails came from the intelligence offices of the nation where Trump and Putin are meeting.
You think that if the room was adequately bugged to get the intelligence officers conversations, that trump/putin conversation is now safely in Mueller's hands. Am I understanding this right?
H2O Man
(73,506 posts)by this afternoon.
Mr. Mueller's opening of the sealed indictments on Friday was part of the on-going counter-intelligence operation. Reviewing the Trump-Putin private conversation is another important part. Mr. Mueller and the intelligence community will have the recordings.
shraby
(21,946 posts)and not know what was said. It is imperative to know.
This is beyond unacceptable.
coeur_de_lion
(3,676 posts)and hoping for the answer you gave.
But I would think Putin would anticipate that, as a former KGB officer.
Wouldn't he insist on conditions where he could not be recorded?
H2O Man
(73,506 posts)of the likelihood of being listened in on. It won't be with his permission. So he will be cautious.
Trump is a flaming asshole. He will speak openly.
coeur_de_lion
(3,676 posts)H2O Man
(73,506 posts)Maeve
(42,271 posts)H2O Man
(73,506 posts)Today is "a date that will live in infamy."
spanone
(135,791 posts)H2O Man
(73,506 posts)kentuck
(111,052 posts)...since his televised betrayal?
H2O Man
(73,506 posts)But it's hard to say. He'll clearly do the most dangerous things .....anything to please Putin, and discredit Mr. Mueller and the intelligence community. And our country.
shraby
(21,946 posts)house republicans, but Mueller could drop a few indictments to push back with. Some we know he must be ready with and damning enough, but saving the last row of volleys to drive the stake home at the proper time.
We know he has interviewed everyone but Stone and Trump. He has all the information he needs right now.
H2O Man
(73,506 posts)I believe that there are still some sealed indictments on file. They really should be unsealed today. And hopefully, the grand jury is going to issue some more this week. We are in a national emergency. Mr. Mueller should play that news conference for the grand jury.
kentuck
(111,052 posts)He's a master of distraction, so we will see what he does to change the subject??
byronius
(7,391 posts)All of the Constantly Wrong pundits and commentators seem to be frantically leaning away from this obvious possibility, almost as if they are circling a black hole's event horizon and refusing to acknowledge its existence. It may not be provable; we should still act as if it was possible, and move to prevent such horrors from ever happening. Paper ballots, hand-counted -- if Canuckia can do it, so can we. And we need a seriously verifiable audit trail and recount capability.
Of course, none of this is supported by the GOP, who must continue to cheat to survive. Those pesky demographics...
ms liberty
(8,558 posts)As it is, I feel sick and angry. It's reassuring to read your OP and comments in this thread. Thanks, my friend.