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H2O Man

(73,506 posts)
Mon Jul 16, 2018, 11:54 AM Jul 2018

Indictments (Phase Two)

Last edited Mon Jul 16, 2018, 12:51 PM - Edit history (1)

In my Saturday evening post, I focused upon some of the current and future results that are indicated by last week's indictments of 12 Russian military intelligence officers. Today, I'd like to look at those indictments' relationship to some past events. I suspect that a better understanding of the events of 2016 can help us better prepare for both the 2018 and 2020 elections.

Yesterday, Trump and some of his backers claimed this was “all Obama's fault.” It's safe to say that everything Trump and fiends say is a lie. But there is reason to look closer at what President Obama did in his confronting the situation. President Obama warned Putin to stop interfering with the elections. It's important to note how the Russians had infiltrated state and local voter rolls. It is reasonable to assume they had the capability to either remove Democrats from the rolls, or to “flip” votes.

At this point, one can only speculate how much damage the Russians may have already done. But what seems clearer is that the step taken by President Obama may have prevented further damage on election day. There are people who believe that President Obama should have done more to assist the Clinton campaign by publicly exposing the Russian operation. However, because it was an active counter-intelligence investigation, he did what he believed was the right thing. I think he did more than the public will ever know.

From the evidence available now, it is evident that the Russian-Trump operation is responsible for Trump's “victory” in 2016. Hence, while people can correctly note the roles that James Comey, Debbie Wasserman-Schultz, the Clinton and Sanders supporters, and the media played, none of these was in and of themselves the reason Trump “won.” Rather, the Russian-Trump operation exploited these, and the synergism dictated the election's outcome.

When we fully recognize this reality, it becomes clear that every time someone blames President Obama for not doing enough, Jim Comey for his October notification to Congress, claims Bernie would have defeated Trump, or points to errors in the Clinton campaign's top staff, it only exasperbates the situation. The focus must be on the Russian-Trump conspiracy, in order to best prevent future damage to the Democratic Party. In the words of the Civil Rights movement, we must keep our eyes on the prize.

Next, two things regarding Trump's meeting with Putin. As I noted yesterday while discussing this with “kentuck” on this forum, it was curious to hear people in the mainstream media ask if Trump would confront Putin on the indictments. The last time I heard a puppet talk back to a puppeteer was in the 1960s, on the Ed Sullivan Show. It's not like Trump was unaware that Putin was helping his campaign.

Finally, regarding if anyone will ever know what Trump and Putin discuss in private, it is important to remember that some of the evidence – in this case, actual recordings of Russian military intelligence officers' conversations about the hacking and distribution of e-mails – came from the intelligence offices of the nation where Trump and Putin are meeting.

Keep your eyes on the prize!
H2O Man

27 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Indictments (Phase Two) (Original Post) H2O Man Jul 2018 OP
It had better be soon... Zoonart Jul 2018 #1
Right. H2O Man Jul 2018 #2
That in itself is an amazing statement. sellitman Jul 2018 #3
It's fucking awful. H2O Man Jul 2018 #5
A very low point malaise Jul 2018 #4
Lock him up! H2O Man Jul 2018 #7
"my Saturday evening post" Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2018 #6
Thanks! H2O Man Jul 2018 #8
Regarding this statement shraby Jul 2018 #9
It will be H2O Man Jul 2018 #10
I thought so. I was thinking there was no way they would let those two meet shraby Jul 2018 #13
Right. H2O Man Jul 2018 #18
I was wondering the same thing coeur_de_lion Jul 2018 #16
Putin is aware H2O Man Jul 2018 #17
good point coeur_de_lion Jul 2018 #21
Thank you. H2O Man Jul 2018 #24
kick for exposure! eom Maeve Jul 2018 #11
Thank you! H2O Man Jul 2018 #12
K&R... spanone Jul 2018 #14
Thanks, spanone. H2O Man Jul 2018 #15
I would think the odds of him firing Rosenstein or Mueller have dropped drastically... kentuck Jul 2018 #19
I hope so. H2O Man Jul 2018 #20
That should be the point where push comes to shove. I don't expect much from the shraby Jul 2018 #22
Right. Good point. H2O Man Jul 2018 #23
Yes, he will do anything to please Putin... kentuck Jul 2018 #25
I agree with your assumption about flipping votes. byronius Jul 2018 #26
K&R. If it was teevee, I'd be on the edge of my seat waiting for the next episode ms liberty Jul 2018 #27

Zoonart

(11,832 posts)
1. It had better be soon...
Mon Jul 16, 2018, 11:58 AM
Jul 2018

because I think we're at defconx1000. They are not even bothering to hide or obsure the treason.

H2O Man

(73,506 posts)
2. Right.
Mon Jul 16, 2018, 12:00 PM
Jul 2018

Today is a low point for our country. It's as if FDR openly sided with Hitler. Except Trump is far more like Adolph than is Putin.

sellitman

(11,605 posts)
3. That in itself is an amazing statement.
Mon Jul 16, 2018, 12:05 PM
Jul 2018

Just chewing on it is more than I could ever imagine.

Wow.

Thanks

H2O Man

(73,506 posts)
5. It's fucking awful.
Mon Jul 16, 2018, 12:16 PM
Jul 2018

I view Trump within the context of sociopathy. Being a retired psychiatric social worker, that is how I can best understand his being and behaviors. And I have anticipated his going all out to destroy our constitutional democracy. Yet, even I am surprised that he would be so open about it today.

H2O Man

(73,506 posts)
7. Lock him up!
Mon Jul 16, 2018, 12:21 PM
Jul 2018

It has been clear since he entered the republican primaries that Trump was running on the white nationalist ticket. Thus, he was supported by the world's leading white nationalist.

Bernardo de La Paz

(48,955 posts)
6. "my Saturday evening post"
Mon Jul 16, 2018, 12:18 PM
Jul 2018

You, sir, are a patriot.

"The focus must be on the Russian-Trump conspiracy". Correct.



shraby

(21,946 posts)
9. Regarding this statement
Mon Jul 16, 2018, 12:37 PM
Jul 2018

Finally, regarding if anyone will ever know what Trump and Putin discuss in private, it is important to remember that some of the evidence – in this case, actual recordings of Russian military intelligence officers' conversations about the hacking and distribution of e-mails – came from the intelligence offices of the nation where Trump and Putin are meeting.


You think that if the room was adequately bugged to get the intelligence officers conversations, that trump/putin conversation is now safely in Mueller's hands. Am I understanding this right?

H2O Man

(73,506 posts)
10. It will be
Mon Jul 16, 2018, 12:40 PM
Jul 2018

by this afternoon.

Mr. Mueller's opening of the sealed indictments on Friday was part of the on-going counter-intelligence operation. Reviewing the Trump-Putin private conversation is another important part. Mr. Mueller and the intelligence community will have the recordings.

shraby

(21,946 posts)
13. I thought so. I was thinking there was no way they would let those two meet
Mon Jul 16, 2018, 01:20 PM
Jul 2018

and not know what was said. It is imperative to know.

coeur_de_lion

(3,676 posts)
16. I was wondering the same thing
Mon Jul 16, 2018, 01:47 PM
Jul 2018

and hoping for the answer you gave.

But I would think Putin would anticipate that, as a former KGB officer.

Wouldn't he insist on conditions where he could not be recorded?

H2O Man

(73,506 posts)
17. Putin is aware
Mon Jul 16, 2018, 02:16 PM
Jul 2018

of the likelihood of being listened in on. It won't be with his permission. So he will be cautious.

Trump is a flaming asshole. He will speak openly.

kentuck

(111,052 posts)
19. I would think the odds of him firing Rosenstein or Mueller have dropped drastically...
Mon Jul 16, 2018, 02:19 PM
Jul 2018

...since his televised betrayal?

H2O Man

(73,506 posts)
20. I hope so.
Mon Jul 16, 2018, 02:22 PM
Jul 2018

But it's hard to say. He'll clearly do the most dangerous things .....anything to please Putin, and discredit Mr. Mueller and the intelligence community. And our country.

shraby

(21,946 posts)
22. That should be the point where push comes to shove. I don't expect much from the
Mon Jul 16, 2018, 02:37 PM
Jul 2018

house republicans, but Mueller could drop a few indictments to push back with. Some we know he must be ready with and damning enough, but saving the last row of volleys to drive the stake home at the proper time.

We know he has interviewed everyone but Stone and Trump. He has all the information he needs right now.

H2O Man

(73,506 posts)
23. Right. Good point.
Mon Jul 16, 2018, 02:51 PM
Jul 2018

I believe that there are still some sealed indictments on file. They really should be unsealed today. And hopefully, the grand jury is going to issue some more this week. We are in a national emergency. Mr. Mueller should play that news conference for the grand jury.

kentuck

(111,052 posts)
25. Yes, he will do anything to please Putin...
Mon Jul 16, 2018, 07:50 PM
Jul 2018

He's a master of distraction, so we will see what he does to change the subject??

byronius

(7,391 posts)
26. I agree with your assumption about flipping votes.
Mon Jul 16, 2018, 08:04 PM
Jul 2018

All of the Constantly Wrong pundits and commentators seem to be frantically leaning away from this obvious possibility, almost as if they are circling a black hole's event horizon and refusing to acknowledge its existence. It may not be provable; we should still act as if it was possible, and move to prevent such horrors from ever happening. Paper ballots, hand-counted -- if Canuckia can do it, so can we. And we need a seriously verifiable audit trail and recount capability.

Of course, none of this is supported by the GOP, who must continue to cheat to survive. Those pesky demographics...

ms liberty

(8,558 posts)
27. K&R. If it was teevee, I'd be on the edge of my seat waiting for the next episode
Mon Jul 16, 2018, 09:43 PM
Jul 2018

As it is, I feel sick and angry. It's reassuring to read your OP and comments in this thread. Thanks, my friend.

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