General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAnybody else sick of these articles? "White, and in the minority"
She speaks English. Her co-workers dont. Inside a rural chicken plant, whites struggle to fit in.
In a country where whites will lose majority status in about a quarter-century, and where research suggests that demographic anxiety is contributing to many of the social fissures polarizing the United States, from immigration policy to welfare reform to the election of President Trump, the story of the coming decades will be, to some degree, the story of how white people adapt to a changing country. It will be the story of people like Heaven Engle and Venson Heim, both of whom were beginning careers on the bottom rung of an industry remade by Latinos, whose population growth is fueling that of America, and were now, in unusually intense circumstances, coming to understand what it means to be outnumbered.
They didnt know the heavy burden of discrimination familiar to members of historically oppressed minority groups, including biased policing and unequal access to jobs and housing. But some of the everyday experiences that have long challenged millions of black, Latino and immigrant Americans the struggle to understand and be understood, feeling unseen, fear of rapid judgments were beginning to challenge them, too.
Studies have shown how some whites, who are dying faster than theyre being born in 26 states, react when they become aware of a tectonic demographic shift that will, with little historic precedent, reconfigure the racial and ethnic geography of an entire country. They swing to the right, either becoming conservative for the first time, or increasingly conservative politically activated, explained Ryan Enos, a political scientist at Harvard University, who among others found that white Democrats voted for Trump in higher numbers in places where the Latino population had recently grown the most.
They feel threatened, even if not directly affected by the change, and adopt positions targeting minorities out of fears of what America will look like, said Rachel Wetts of the University of California at Berkeley, who argued in one study that recent calls by whites to cut welfare were born of racial resentment inflamed by demographic anxiety, even though whites benefit from the social safety net as well.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2018/07/30/feature/majority-minority-white-workers-at-this-pennsylvania-chicken-plant-now-struggle-to-fit-in/?utm_term=.fedd3eb7796d
If I worked in a plant where everybody else spoke Spanish, I'd learn Spanish. There are free courses available online. Problem solved.
whathehell
(29,050 posts)rather than race.
The Democratic Party's Path to Citizenship includes a requirement to learn English. If I moved to a country where everyone spoke
English, I'd learn English. There are free courses available online. Problem solved.
octoberlib
(14,971 posts)"other" and will punish the "other" even if they punish themselves by doing so. These white people aren't victims of anything except their own ignorance.
whathehell
(29,050 posts)If my white English speaking self moves to white Spanish Speaking Spain for a job and expect my co-workers to speak English, that would be a problem of mine that had zilch to do with race.
It's a poor premise on which to build another thread recounting the varied and sundry shortcomings of 'white people'.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)Then you are probably the target audience for this piece.
wasupaloopa
(4,516 posts)Last edited Tue Jul 31, 2018, 08:38 AM - Edit history (1)
with articles like this.
I cant put it into the right words but there is something mentally wrong with this white is bad thinking. Its people with a guilt complex guilt tripping other people.
It is not healthy to loath yourself.
Yes there is racism and fear but that is a minority position it does not describe the majority of white people.
This article is about some white people.
but neither you nor the article establishes a clear link between language and privilege.
Language can be learned, being born into a particular race cannot. Thus, the analigy to the "white privilege" meme fails.
OnDoutside
(19,949 posts)whathehell
(29,050 posts)and now that you've popped in, I was wondering if I'd be hearng from you soon on the pm.
OnDoutside
(19,949 posts)whathehell
(29,050 posts)Would you care to elaborate?
OnDoutside
(19,949 posts)whathehell
(29,050 posts)Hmmm..Maybe I'm not too compelling a correspondent?
OnDoutside
(19,949 posts)whathehell
(29,050 posts)whatever. :
Tarc
(10,476 posts)brush
(53,758 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)Whenever Ive even traveled to another country, much less lived in one - Ive made every effort to learn the language.
If an American complained that no one in their adopted country spoke English, theyd be vilified, and rightly so.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Not all white people ... Broad brush ... (and, of course) DIVISIVE!
RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts)....and also feel like an outsider. Especially in a southern factory.
wasupaloopa
(4,516 posts)and whites are the minority in my state of CA.
It hasnt hurt me one bit. All the other whites I know here think the same way.
Nobody is afraid. This article is for the mea culpa white people on this board.
Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa
FSogol
(45,465 posts)They had every opportunity such as free education, growing up in a stable environment with 2 parents, and being white. And yet their only employment choice is competing against people who don't even speak the language? I'm sure Heaven and Venson are the two laziest people in the plant. The guy, Venson Helm, wonders why people in the plant ask Juan for help when machinery breaks instead of self-proclaimed greatest mechanic in the world Venson? Maybe it's because you are a racist asshole? Nobody wants to hear your crap or your attitude when something needs fixed. I'm sure Juan is 100x more understanding.
If ether applied themselves and learned a little Spanish, they'd probably become supervisors. The folks that work with them need to improve their English and would probably be overjoyed if Heaven took a little interest in communicating. Both Heaven and Venson think they are better than their co-workers, so I doubt there will be any self-improvement on their parts.
The only sad part of the article is that Heaven's own family encouraged her to work there and considered chicken processing to be a good career. Jesus Christ people, it is the 21st century, not the 19th. Educate your kids, don't doom them to factory work because, "that's the way we've always done it."
brer cat
(24,544 posts)So the tools needed to establish communication and friendship were all to be acquired by one side. Heaven whines and cries but doesn't have the gumption to learn even one word in Spanish. That attitude reeks of superiority.
FSogol
(45,465 posts)brush
(53,758 posts)her instead of reciprocating and returning the gesture with some effort in rudimentary Spanish to her co-worker.
It wouldn't have taken much effort to learn a few words to get started. They could have helped each other learn and develop friendship at the same time.
ck4829
(35,041 posts)They had that going for them, "I could work in the chicken factory and life will be good. I will lord over those Mexicans".
Turns out you can't do that anymore.
ProfessorGAC
(64,951 posts)Maybe Juan is a better mechanic, too. Like you said, Venson proclaimed himself the greatest mechanic in the world. If others view it differently, it may be because he's not as good as Juan.
The rest of what you said, i completely agree with.
FSogol
(45,465 posts)probably does it without attitude or belittling anyone.
ProfessorGAC
(64,951 posts). . .people who really are good at stuff don't tell others they are the best ever at it.
They may say they know they're good, but they don't say "best ever" and "only i can fix it". I bet i know who that tool voted for.
FSogol
(45,465 posts)ret5hd
(20,486 posts)my favorite line:
(speaking about non-english speaking immigrants taking "your" job)
"...and if that guy is as qualified for that job as you are, you are a loser of such epic and humiliating proportions. I would be ashamed for anyone to find out that guy took my job. Did they do your job training in pantomime, shithead?"
ck4829
(35,041 posts)BumRushDaShow
(128,706 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)There are poor whites working in chicken factories. But, in the Tyson plant near where I live in rural North Carolina the vast majority are black.
So you think the poor whites and blacks in these plants all have access to the internet? Do they have the time and money to subscribe to language services? Nope.
Its nice that you think foreign languages are so simple to learn.
I volunteer in this rural towns library. Those who come in to use the internet (black, white, and Hispanic), do NOT have access at home. Many barely know how to pay bills on line, much less pay for and utilize a language service. Smh.
RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts)dembotoz
(16,796 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I learned conversational Spanish simply by working in the office where I do (majority Latino office). Within one year of starting there. And I'm pretty dumb... and poor, as well.
brush
(53,758 posts)constantly exposed to it easier than the Spanish speakers there as Spanish was the language most spoken there, right?
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Also, I was lucky enough to grow up in a family that valued education, especially learning other languages, and enjoyed extensive travel.
There are at least two posters in this thread who tell how theyve had difficulty learning Spanish, so I guess youre simply special.
FSogol
(45,465 posts)The effort is the 1st step. That's something the couple in the article won't do.
cagefreesoylentgreen
(838 posts)Being serious here, I suspect this is the same attitude thats preventing Trumpers from applying for Russian citizenship. That requires fluency in Russian after five years of residency, something that probably terrifies them.
VOX
(22,976 posts)Take ownership of your situation. Hustle up some curiosity about the world around you, and beyond. Stay in school. Learn Spanish, as the demographics are shifting as they have done everywhere on earth over the centuries. Get out of your isolating home town.
And good god, stop with the chain-smoking.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)and ideas to enlarge my understanding, not those that aim at the gut for the purpose of arousing fear and resentment.
Fwiw, I'm also assisted in this by distaste for anything that encourages a psychology of victimhood. Whining, resentment toward powerful others, and supposedly helpless self pity always irritate me.
VOX
(22,976 posts)And while its not designed to offer up any fantastic solutions, it does provides a detailed snapshot of how ill-prepared Americas uneducated young whites are in the face of changing demographics.
The conclusions one may draw from it are the keys to keeping this country afloat, and it makes one think about the steps necessary to ward off another fascist coup, providing we survive the current precarious situation.
lame54
(35,277 posts)i tried learning Spanish - it didn't take
in that situation i think i could get it
brush
(53,758 posts)in the plant, which is why the workers didn't have to learn English.
Both sides could benefit by an exchange of learning each other's language.
lame54
(35,277 posts)in that building there is only one side
being the only english speaking worker it is up to her to conform or be left out
If her co-workers find themselves in places where english is the main language they would do well to try to pick it up
but in that factory the responsibility is hers
brush
(53,758 posts)to see it as a chance to become bilingual. A lost opportunity as she had Spanish speakers all around her who probably would've eagerly help herif she approached with a non-patronizing attitude.
Too bad for her small horizon and small mind.
Kaleva
(36,291 posts)JonLP24
(29,322 posts)I can understand some of it hearing better than speaking but it's too hard for me. I never had issues with people speaking Spanish that I work with. Sometimes they would transfer in and out of English and Spanish sometimes even speaking to me.
ProfessorGAC
(64,951 posts). . .that this is near immersion learning. Per the article, the Spanish is not just common, it's ubiquitous. It's a lot easier to learn a language when fully immersed in it. Probably because one has little choice, unless they are actively resisting, as appears in this case.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)Knew some Puerto Ricans in the Army. I never could learn it but some people do pick it up. It's too hard for me.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)English is one of the hardest.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)I've actually tried.
brush
(53,758 posts)Don't sell yourself short. You said you even started to "hear" it in some cases. That's the first step.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)I can't speak it though only a few sentences but forgot most of what I learned or write it.
brush
(53,758 posts)words and phrases when I heard them but wasn't quite able to string sentences together when trying to speak it.
I had to quite the class because of a death in the family.
I hope to get back to it.
moriah
(8,311 posts)Was a dumbass and took Latin as my high school foreign language. Totally useless in the real world.
brush
(53,758 posts)with Spanish speakers all around.
Latin did help with recognizing the origin of many English words though and figuring out what unfamiliar words may have originated from.
For instance, I still remember the Latin word for farmer is "agricola". It's easy to see the english word agriculture was derived from that word.
ret5hd
(20,486 posts)FSogol
(45,465 posts)That's a big help.