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Tue Jul 31, 2018, 04:58 AM

Anybody else sick of these articles? "White, and in the minority"

She speaks English. Her co-workers don’t. Inside a rural chicken plant, whites struggle to fit in.



In a country where whites will lose majority status in about a quarter-century, and where research suggests that demographic anxiety is contributing to many of the social fissures polarizing the United States, from immigration policy to welfare reform to the election of President Trump, the story of the coming decades will be, to some degree, the story of how white people adapt to a changing country. It will be the story of people like Heaven Engle and Venson Heim, both of whom were beginning careers on the bottom rung of an industry remade by Latinos, whose population growth is fueling that of America, and were now, in unusually intense circumstances, coming to understand what it means to be outnumbered.

They didn’t know the heavy burden of discrimination familiar to members of historically oppressed minority groups, including biased policing and unequal access to jobs and housing. But some of the everyday experiences that have long challenged millions of black, Latino and immigrant Americans — the struggle to understand and be understood, feeling unseen, fear of rapid judgments — were beginning to challenge them, too.


Studies have shown how some whites, who are dying faster than they’re being born in 26 states, react when they become aware of a tectonic demographic shift that will, with little historic precedent, reconfigure the racial and ethnic geography of an entire country. They swing to the right, either becoming conservative for the first time, or increasingly conservative — “politically activated,” explained Ryan Enos, a political scientist at Harvard University, who among others found that white Democrats voted for Trump in higher numbers in places where the Latino population had recently grown the most.

They feel threatened, even if not directly affected by the change, and adopt positions targeting minorities out of “fears of what America will look like,” said Rachel Wetts of the University of California at Berkeley, who argued in one study that recent calls by whites to cut welfare were born of racial resentment inflamed by demographic anxiety, even though whites benefit from the social safety net as well.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2018/07/30/feature/majority-minority-white-workers-at-this-pennsylvania-chicken-plant-now-struggle-to-fit-in/?utm_term=.fedd3eb7796d



If I worked in a plant where everybody else spoke Spanish, I'd learn Spanish. There are free courses available online. Problem solved.

62 replies, 5233 views

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Reply Anybody else sick of these articles? "White, and in the minority" (Original post)
octoberlib Jul 2018 OP
whathehell Jul 2018 #1
octoberlib Jul 2018 #2
whathehell Jul 2018 #3
Tarc Jul 2018 #6
wasupaloopa Jul 2018 #7
whathehell Jul 2018 #9
OnDoutside Jul 2018 #17
whathehell Jul 2018 #19
OnDoutside Jul 2018 #20
whathehell Jul 2018 #21
OnDoutside Jul 2018 #26
whathehell Jul 2018 #33
OnDoutside Jul 2018 #38
whathehell Aug 2018 #62
Tarc Jul 2018 #22
ck4829 Jul 2018 #14
brush Jul 2018 #31
cwydro Jul 2018 #8
EffieBlack Jul 2018 #5
RhodeIslandOne Jul 2018 #25
wasupaloopa Jul 2018 #4
FSogol Jul 2018 #10
brer cat Jul 2018 #12
FSogol Jul 2018 #13
brush Jul 2018 #57
brer cat Aug 2018 #61
ck4829 Jul 2018 #15
ProfessorGAC Jul 2018 #40
FSogol Jul 2018 #42
ProfessorGAC Jul 2018 #43
FSogol Jul 2018 #44
ret5hd Jul 2018 #54
ck4829 Jul 2018 #11
BumRushDaShow Jul 2018 #16
cwydro Jul 2018 #18
RhodeIslandOne Jul 2018 #27
dembotoz Jul 2018 #28
LanternWaste Jul 2018 #29
brush Jul 2018 #34
cwydro Jul 2018 #49
FSogol Aug 2018 #59
cagefreesoylentgreen Aug 2018 #60
VOX Jul 2018 #23
Hortensis Jul 2018 #24
VOX Jul 2018 #30
lame54 Jul 2018 #32
brush Jul 2018 #36
lame54 Jul 2018 #37
brush Jul 2018 #50
Kaleva Jul 2018 #39
JonLP24 Jul 2018 #35
ProfessorGAC Jul 2018 #41
JonLP24 Jul 2018 #45
cwydro Jul 2018 #46
JonLP24 Jul 2018 #47
brush Jul 2018 #51
JonLP24 Jul 2018 #52
brush Jul 2018 #53
moriah Jul 2018 #48
brush Jul 2018 #55
ret5hd Jul 2018 #56
FSogol Aug 2018 #58

Response to octoberlib (Original post)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 05:37 AM

1. The article seems mistitled, since it's actually about language

rather than race.
The Democratic Party's Path to Citizenship includes a requirement to learn English. If I moved to a country where everyone spoke
English, I'd learn English. There are free courses available online. Problem solved.

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Response to whathehell (Reply #1)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 05:44 AM

2. The article's not mistitled. It's about how white people are afraid of and resent the

"other" and will punish the "other" even if they punish themselves by doing so. These white people aren't victims of anything except their own ignorance.

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Response to octoberlib (Reply #2)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 06:13 AM

3. It is mistitled if it's using a language difference as an example..

If my white English speaking self moves to white Spanish Speaking Spain for a job and expect my co-workers to speak English, that would be a problem of mine that had zilch to do with race.

It's a poor premise on which to build another thread recounting the varied and sundry shortcomings of 'white people'.











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Response to whathehell (Reply #3)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 06:49 AM

6. If you don't understand how race & privilege are central to the story

Then you are probably the target audience for this piece.

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Response to Tarc (Reply #6)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 07:05 AM

7. That is the most rediculous idea some DUers have

 

Last edited Tue Jul 31, 2018, 07:38 AM - Edit history (1)

with articles like this.

I can’t put it into the right words but there is something mentally wrong with this “white” is bad thinking. It’s people with a guilt complex guilt tripping other people.

It is not healthy to loath yourself.

Yes there is racism and fear but that is a minority position it does not describe the majority of white people.

This article is about some white people.

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Response to Tarc (Reply #6)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 07:45 AM

9. Nice try


but neither you nor the article establishes a clear link between language and privilege.
Language can be learned, being born into a particular race cannot. Thus, the analigy to the "white privilege" meme fails.











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Response to whathehell (Reply #9)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 10:06 AM

17. Good point.

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #17)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 12:00 PM

19. Thanks, Mr. C.

and now that you've popped in, I was wondering if I'd be hearng from you soon on the pm.

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Response to whathehell (Reply #19)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 01:13 PM

20. Oops !

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #20)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 01:58 PM

21. Oops..

Would you care to elaborate?

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Response to whathehell (Reply #21)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 03:06 PM

26. I never replied to your message !

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #26)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 03:21 PM

33. You forgot?

Hmmm..Maybe I'm not too compelling a correspondent?

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Response to whathehell (Reply #33)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 04:03 PM

38. Hahaha no, not at all !

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #38)

Wed Aug 1, 2018, 08:38 AM

62. Okay then

whatever. :



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Response to whathehell (Reply #9)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 02:57 PM

22. Wyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyypipo


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Response to Tarc (Reply #6)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 09:39 AM

14. +1

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Response to Tarc (Reply #6)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 03:17 PM

31. Heehee. How true.

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Response to whathehell (Reply #3)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 07:41 AM

8. Thank you.

Whenever I’ve even traveled to another country, much less lived in one - I’ve made every effort to learn the language.

If an American complained that no one in their adopted country spoke English, they’d be vilified, and rightly so.

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Response to octoberlib (Reply #2)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 06:48 AM

5. But but but

 

Not all white people ... Broad brush ... (and, of course) DIVISIVE!

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Response to octoberlib (Reply #2)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 03:05 PM

25. You could be a black person who doesn't speak Spanish....

 

....and also feel like an outsider. Especially in a southern factory.

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Response to octoberlib (Original post)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 06:36 AM

4. I am white and live in a 70% Hispanic city

 

and whites are the minority in my state of CA.

It hasn’t hurt me one bit. All the other whites I know here think the same way.

Nobody is afraid. This article is for the mea culpa white people on this board.

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa

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Response to octoberlib (Original post)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 07:54 AM

10. Sorry, but I laughed at the fools in that article.

They had every opportunity such as free education, growing up in a stable environment with 2 parents, and being white. And yet their only employment choice is competing against people who don't even speak the language? I'm sure Heaven and Venson are the two laziest people in the plant. The guy, Venson Helm, wonders why people in the plant ask Juan for help when machinery breaks instead of self-proclaimed greatest mechanic in the world Venson? Maybe it's because you are a racist asshole? Nobody wants to hear your crap or your attitude when something needs fixed. I'm sure Juan is 100x more understanding.

If ether applied themselves and learned a little Spanish, they'd probably become supervisors. The folks that work with them need to improve their English and would probably be overjoyed if Heaven took a little interest in communicating. Both Heaven and Venson think they are better than their co-workers, so I doubt there will be any self-improvement on their parts.

The only sad part of the article is that Heaven's own family encouraged her to work there and considered chicken processing to be a good career. Jesus Christ people, it is the 21st century, not the 19th. Educate your kids, don't doom them to factory work because, "that's the way we've always done it."

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Response to FSogol (Reply #10)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 08:33 AM

12. I think this sentence sums it up very well.

Months before, Salvador had marshaled all of her English to ask Heaven her name, and for a moment Heaven had felt less isolated, as though maybe that could be the beginning of a friendship, but that had been the extent of the conversation, and now neither said anything as Salvador collected the chicken breasts and left.


So the tools needed to establish communication and friendship were all to be acquired by one side. Heaven whines and cries but doesn't have the gumption to learn even one word in Spanish. That attitude reeks of superiority.

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Response to brer cat (Reply #12)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 08:34 AM

13. True. n/t

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Response to brer cat (Reply #12)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 10:22 PM

57. Yeah, guess she thought it was all up to the Spanish speaker to approach...

her instead of reciprocating and returning the gesture with some effort in rudimentary Spanish to her co-worker.

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Response to brush (Reply #57)

Wed Aug 1, 2018, 05:59 AM

61. Right.

It wouldn't have taken much effort to learn a few words to get started. They could have helped each other learn and develop friendship at the same time.

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Response to FSogol (Reply #10)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 09:51 AM

15. +1. "The lowest white man is still better than any person of color" has consequences

They had that going for them, "I could work in the chicken factory and life will be good. I will lord over those Mexicans".

Turns out you can't do that anymore.

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Response to FSogol (Reply #10)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 04:21 PM

40. To Your First Paragraph

Maybe Juan is a better mechanic, too. Like you said, Venson proclaimed himself the greatest mechanic in the world. If others view it differently, it may be because he's not as good as Juan.

The rest of what you said, i completely agree with.

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Response to ProfessorGAC (Reply #40)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 05:23 PM

42. I agree. I have no doubt Juan puts more effort into the work and

probably does it without attitude or belittling anyone.

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Response to FSogol (Reply #42)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 05:27 PM

43. As Someone We Regularly Discuss Here. . .

. . .people who really are good at stuff don't tell others they are the best ever at it.

They may say they know they're good, but they don't say "best ever" and "only i can fix it". I bet i know who that tool voted for.

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Response to ProfessorGAC (Reply #43)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 05:29 PM

44. Probable, but more likely they're part of the 50% that can't bother to vote. n/t

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Response to FSogol (Reply #10)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 10:12 PM

54. I think Doug Stanhope says it much better than me:

my favorite line:
(speaking about non-english speaking immigrants taking "your" job)
"...and if that guy is as qualified for that job as you are, you are a loser of such epic and humiliating proportions. I would be ashamed for anyone to find out that guy took my job. Did they do your job training in pantomime, shithead?"

?t=2m45s

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Response to octoberlib (Original post)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 07:56 AM

11. K&R. I'm learning and speaking Spanish just to spite the fascists and authoritarians running the US

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Response to octoberlib (Original post)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 10:03 AM

16. Fixed.

recent calls by whites to cut welfare were born of racial resentment inflamed by demographic anxiety, even though whites are the majority recipients of the social safety net (benefit from the social safety net as well).

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Response to octoberlib (Original post)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 10:30 AM

18. There are poor white working in chicken factories

There are poor whites working in chicken factories. But, in the Tyson plant near where I live in rural North Carolina the vast majority are black.

So you think the poor whites and blacks in these plants all have access to the internet? Do they have the time and money to subscribe to language services? Nope.

It’s nice that you think foreign languages are so simple to learn.

I volunteer in this rural town’s library. Those who come in to use the internet (black, white, and Hispanic), do NOT have access at home. Many barely know how to pay bills on line, much less pay for and utilize a language service. Smh.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #18)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 03:07 PM

27. Thank you

 

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Response to cwydro (Reply #18)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 03:08 PM

28. Bingo...

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Response to cwydro (Reply #18)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 03:11 PM

29. It's kinda sad you think learning a new language is so burdensome and expensive.

 

I learned conversational Spanish simply by working in the office where I do (majority Latino office). Within one year of starting there. And I'm pretty dumb... and poor, as well.

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #29)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 03:23 PM

34. So the whites in that chicken plant could learn Spanish from being...

constantly exposed to it easier than the Spanish speakers there as Spanish was the language most spoken there, right?

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #29)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 09:19 PM

49. I don't at all. I took Spanish all through school.

Also, I was lucky enough to grow up in a family that valued education, especially learning other languages, and enjoyed extensive travel.

There are at least two posters in this thread who tell how they’ve had difficulty learning Spanish, so I guess you’re simply special.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #49)

Wed Aug 1, 2018, 01:54 AM

59. Not everyone has an aptitude for languages, but making

The effort is the 1st step. That's something the couple in the article won't do.

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Response to FSogol (Reply #59)

Wed Aug 1, 2018, 02:45 AM

60. I suspect

Being serious here, I suspect this is the same attitude that’s preventing Trumpers from applying for Russian citizenship. That requires fluency in Russian after five years of residency, something that probably terrifies them.

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Response to octoberlib (Original post)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 02:58 PM

23. Their passivity is remarkable. They completely sideline themselves.

Take ownership of your situation. Hustle up some curiosity about the world around you, and beyond. Stay in school. Learn Spanish, as the demographics are shifting— as they have done everywhere on earth over the centuries. Get out of your isolating home town.

And good god, stop with the chain-smoking.

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Response to octoberlib (Original post)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 03:00 PM

24. Nope. I mostly read articles that provide information

and ideas to enlarge my understanding, not those that aim at the gut for the purpose of arousing fear and resentment.

Fwiw, I'm also assisted in this by distaste for anything that encourages a psychology of victimhood. Whining, resentment toward powerful others, and supposedly helpless self pity always irritate me.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #24)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 03:14 PM

30. Did you read the piece? It's not about fear or resentment at all.

And while it’s not designed to offer up any fantastic solutions, it does provides a detailed snapshot of how ill-prepared America’s uneducated young whites are in the face of changing demographics.

The conclusions one may draw from it are the keys to keeping this country afloat, and it makes one think about the steps necessary to ward off another fascist coup, providing we survive the current precarious situation.

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Response to octoberlib (Original post)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 03:19 PM

32. seems like an opportunity...

i tried learning Spanish - it didn't take
in that situation i think i could get it

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Response to lame54 (Reply #32)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 03:27 PM

36. Yes. It's an opportunity as the article said Spanish was spoken...

in the plant, which is why the workers didn't have to learn English.

Both sides could benefit by an exchange of learning each other's language.

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Response to brush (Reply #36)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 03:33 PM

37. Both sides - really?...

in that building there is only one side
being the only english speaking worker it is up to her to conform or be left out
If her co-workers find themselves in places where english is the main language they would do well to try to pick it up
but in that factory the responsibility is hers

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Response to lame54 (Reply #37)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 09:45 PM

50. I can't argue with you on that. Unfortunately she didn't have enough sense...

to see it as a chance to become bilingual. A lost opportunity as she had Spanish speakers all around her who probably would've eagerly help her—if she approached with a non-patronizing attitude.

Too bad for her small horizon and small mind.

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Response to brush (Reply #36)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 04:14 PM

39. My great grandparents, despite living in the US for decades, never learned English.

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Response to octoberlib (Original post)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 03:24 PM

35. I tried learning some spanish

I can understand some of it hearing better than speaking but it's too hard for me. I never had issues with people speaking Spanish that I work with. Sometimes they would transfer in and out of English and Spanish sometimes even speaking to me.

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #35)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 04:24 PM

41. Thing Is, Jon. . .

. . .that this is near immersion learning. Per the article, the Spanish is not just common, it's ubiquitous. It's a lot easier to learn a language when fully immersed in it. Probably because one has little choice, unless they are actively resisting, as appears in this case.

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Response to ProfessorGAC (Reply #41)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 09:07 PM

45. I took it twice in high school and lived in Arizona

Knew some Puerto Ricans in the Army. I never could learn it but some people do pick it up. It's too hard for me.

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #45)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 09:10 PM

46. Spanish is actually one of the easiest languages to learn.

English is one of the hardest.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #46)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 09:13 PM

47. It is too difficult for me to learn any language then but when it comes to Spanish

I've actually tried.

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #47)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 09:50 PM

51. You could learn it in a total immersion situation.

Don't sell yourself short. You said you even started to "hear" it in some cases. That's the first step.

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Response to brush (Reply #51)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 09:58 PM

52. I do understand some of it and have for years

I can't speak it though only a few sentences but forgot most of what I learned or write it.

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #52)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 10:03 PM

53. I took a class too and was starting to grasp it. I could understand many...

words and phrases when I heard them but wasn't quite able to string sentences together when trying to speak it.

I had to quite the class because of a death in the family.

I hope to get back to it.

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Response to octoberlib (Original post)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 09:16 PM

48. I'm actually starting trying to learn Spanish.

Was a dumbass and took Latin as my high school foreign language. Totally useless in the real world.

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Response to moriah (Reply #48)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 10:15 PM

55. I took latin too. Wish I had taken Spanish as I grew up in the Southwest...

with Spanish speakers all around.

Latin did help with recognizing the origin of many English words though and figuring out what unfamiliar words may have originated from.

For instance, I still remember the Latin word for farmer is "agricola". It's easy to see the english word agriculture was derived from that word.

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Response to moriah (Reply #48)

Tue Jul 31, 2018, 10:16 PM

56. Et tu, Moriah?

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Response to moriah (Reply #48)

Wed Aug 1, 2018, 01:51 AM

58. Watch an hour of telenovellas everyday on spanish tv.

That's a big help.

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