How Likely Is It That Romney Paid No Taxes?

[Swede]

snip

“We know that by 2010, he had lots of other income,” Kleinbard said. “[H]e had something like $20 million in other income…. What [the TPM reader] wrote is may be true but it has nothing to do with the $20 million on the return in 2010.”

That year, Romney paid a nearly 14 percent effective rate on his taxes. But those numbers likely understate the degree to which Romney’s financial circumstances improved that year. It wouldn’t account for the appreciation of assets he decided not to sell in 2010, and if Bain bought company shares back from Romney’s IRA, that money wouldn’t show up anywhere.

“What’s in the IRA is invisible on the return,” Kleinbard says.

Other experts largely agree.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/08/how-likely-is-it-that-romney-paid-no-taxes.php

[Bucky]

1. Did Reid say he paid no taxes or that he paid no income taxes?

If he was supposedly retired, he was only getting capital gains as income, tho' it's not quite counted as "income" per se. I can't imagine that he paid literally nothing for several years, but there were certainly going to be some revenue streams among his many sources of investments on which he paid virtually nothing--billionaires hire tax attorneys for a reason, after all. The sad part is that the IRS and probably US law let him get away with whatever he did to short the country that ensures his way of life.

[Festivito]

3. Reid said the "word is out" that Romney paid no taxes.

In the Republican-Bush-II second great depression, a lot of wealth was lost. Because of that, many people had a lot of losses to deduct over the past few years.

With money off-shore, one could bring in just enough so as to pay no taxes, that is, to have a form that says you owe zero taxes.

Of course, sales tax, FICA, MC, property taxes, do get paid.

I don't know. I'm just suggesting.

[karynnj]

4. Capital gains are income - and tax is normally paid on your 1040.

[firehorse]

2. He probably manipulated the system to get money back.

[unblock]

5. my mother used to do some estate and tax planning, and there are people who want zero income taxes.

my mother would always ask them, "wouldn't you rather have more money after taxes, even if it meant the government got a little something?"

and the answer would invariably be, "NO. i don't care if i wind up with less. just so long as the government doesn't get a dime from me!"


so my mother would just put them into completely tax free munis or whatever and their income was completely tax free. earning very little income, but completely tax free.

some people either are stupid, truly loathe the government, or both.


in any event, rmoney i'm sure had plenty of spending money and that would likely have been earning taxable interest unless he was specifically trying to make a point of having zero taxes.

far more likely, i think, would be that his taxes show dramatically less income compared to his wealth given that so much of his wealth is sheltered. hence i suspect he owed and paid taxes, but comapartivaly low numbers, low enough to be a real embarassment.

[nichomachus]

6. He probably paid some taxes

But the amount (percentage) that he paid and how he avoided paying are apparently too damaging to him. He's already hinted at that when he said the Democrats could use it against him. That's kind of an admission there is something damaging there.

Nobody could use my tax returns against me. I reported my income, took a bunch of legitimate deductions that most working homeowners take, and paid my fair share.

However, I think that beyond the rich-guy shell games he played, there is another bombshell. Two candidates:

1. He used the 2009 amnesty to move money from illegal offshore tax shelters to legal offshore tax shelters

2. He claimed CA residency in the year he voted in MA for Scott Brown.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

7. Aren't there some companies out there

whom have not paid taxes and, in fact, are able to GET a refund? How far of a stretch would it be for a private individual, particularly one who knows the world of high finance, to figure out ways to avoid paying taxes?

[Blue Owl]

8. Bloody

as the Brits would say...

[taught_me_patience]

9. Almost impossible

When anybody complains about taxes, I always say "if you ain't paying taxes, you ain't making money." The only way that I can see him completely avoiding taxes is if, through tricky cost accounting, all American subsidiaries of Bain Capital showed losses and all profit was "created" in subsidiaries in the Bahamas. I'm sure Romney used this trick to lower his American tax burden... it would be almost impossible to lower it to zero, though.

[Motown_Johnny]

12. G.E.’s Strategies Let It Avoid Taxes Altogether

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/25/business/economy/25tax.html?pagewanted=all

^snip^


General Electric, the nation’s largest corporation, had a very good year in 2010.
from its operations in the United States.

The company reported worldwide profits of $14.2 billion, and said $5.1 billion of the total came from its operations in the United States.

Its American tax bill? None. In fact, G.E. claimed a tax benefit of $3.2 billion.

[taught_me_patience]

14. Large corporations have huge loopholes for their returns

loopholes for individual income have largely been closed. The largest loophole we have for income taxes is "carried interest", which allows hedge fund/venture capital fund managers to classify their "income" as "capital gain" and pay 15% taxes. It's a loophole bought and paid for by wall street... but it's still 15%.

[Justice wanted]

10. Romney Bragged about it at Bain capital.

[Motown_Johnny]

11. This time around he has not spent any of his own money while in '08

he spent ~$42 Million.

That $42 million number would be similar to what he paid in federal taxes for the two years he is disclosing (once he gets around to it).


I don't know for sure but it is strange to me that those two numbers are so similar.





http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/02/romney.html


^snip^


And, sure enough, after a disappointing showing that Tuesday, he quit. And soon after, he endorsed Sen. John McCain. But while Romney was talking to reporters before that Tuesday, someone asked him how much of his own personal fortune he was willing to invest in the campaign. And Romney said that he and his wife of 38 years, Ann, had indeed set a limit. But he wouldn't say what it was.

Now, we know.

The limit was $42.3 million.

That works out to about $150,000 of his own money for every convention delegate Romney won. But then he also spent another ...

[dmr]

13. And, how likely has he "cheated" his church out of

whatever he's suppose to contribute. I'm not sure how it's done; if he promises to contribute a certain percentage of his income or worth to the church, or not. But if he is, I don't think they'd look highly on his lying to them. So, if he is lying to them, I guess this would be another reason he'd be afraid to release his statements.

And, besides the US Government, and his church, he may be worried about others he's lied to along the way.