Police Chief Defends Use Of Taser On Elderly Woman Cutting Flowers -" muslim looking hat?"

[blueseas]

A Georgia police chief is defending the use of a Taser on an 87-year-old grandmother after she was seen walking around with a knife near her home, which her family says was for cutting dandelions for a salad.

Martha Al-Bishara, 87, whose family says she doesn’t speak English, was gathering the flowers Friday on property belonging to a Boys and Girls Club organization in Chatsworth when a staff member called 911 on her for trespassing, the Dalton Daily Citizen-News reported, citing the police report.

“She’s old so she can’t get around too well, but looks like she’s walking around looking for something, like vegetation to cut down or something. There’s a bag too,” the caller told police in the 911 recording. The caller, who described the woman as wearing a “Muslim hat-looking thing,” said there were no children outside and that the woman said she didn’t speak English.

“See’s seeing us, she hears what we’re saying, she may not know what we’re saying, but we’re telling her to stop and there’s a Taser pointed at her and there’s a firearm that’s unholstered there. Most people, that’s kind of the universal command for stop,” he said. He added that using a Taser was the “minimum force.”


https://www.yahoo.com/news/police-chief-defends-taser-elderly-203814357.html

[maxsolomon]

1. The B&GC called the cops over DANDELION PICKING.

STOP SNITCHING. Don't use the cops to solve every little problem.

They're lucky she didn't die.

[blueseas]

2. I hope the family

Gets some legal advice.

[maxsolomon]

4. Well, she was tresspassing and didn't cooperate.

Remember, in America, disobeying Police is grounds for execution. Especially when Musliming.

Case dismissed.

[jberryhill]

7. It sounds like they called about a stranger with a knife on their property

[maxsolomon]

17. so you think it was a totally reasonable 911 call, then?

no doubt they were just following B&GC regulations.

[jberryhill]

20. I have no idea, I wasn't there

Here's an experiment.

Head over to a facility, such as an elementary school or a boys and girls club. Walk around with a knife visible. See if they become concerned that someone is walking around with a knife.

I think the cops certainly could have handled the situation differently.

I don't think it is unusual that a child care facility called police about an unknown person on the property walking around with a knife.

[maxsolomon]

21. I'll try it when I'm 87.

I'll even put on a Muslim hat.

You'll just have to wait 25 years.

[jberryhill]

22. What does age have to do with it?

Unless the person is wearing a t-shirt with their age imprinted on it, then I don't see how 'a person with a knife' is any different from 'an 87 year old person with a knife' from a distance. How close did they get to her before calling about a person with a knife?

[maxsolomon]

23. hypothetical: a 20 year old male with a machete

versus 87 year old woman with a kitchen knife. I'd call the cops on the former, not the latter. you'd call on both.

you (and the B&GC) are making this binary; I'm saying this is not binary, use your judgment and reasoning abilities. it's POSSIBLE the 87 year old woman may assault the building and murder a child with a kitchen knife, but it is not LIKELY. in fact, it's highly unlikely, but its also likely that B&GC policy leaves no room for a staffer to make that call.

"I don't make the rules, I just follow them, sir".

stop calling the cops every time someone looks at you sideways, America.

[jberryhill]

24. "you'd call on both"

I will never understand the need for people on DU to make accusations about other people, as a substitute for simply having a discussion.

As you will note above, I said that I have no idea whether the call was reasonable or not, since I was not there and do not know exactly what the person making the call perceived.

A stranger was on the grounds of a facility with children, walking around with a knife. Oddly, the other person here who wants to play "you're the boogeyman" seems to think that the subjective intentions of other people are somehow discernible from an unknown distance.

You are the one who is making the "binary" situation here.

When you say:

"it's POSSIBLE the 87 year old woman may assault the building and murder a child"

That statement assumes that the staffer, by some magic you still have not explained, was able to determine the age of the person in question at whatever distance they were situated. Since you have complete command of the facts and have determined that the call was unreasonable, then I have to ask you again why the person's age matters or, more to the point, how was that person's age supposed to be known to whomever observed 'someone walking around with a knife' outside?

Eventually, the children are going to leave the building. So I also don't know what "assault the building" has to do with anything. Or is the idea "Okay, I see there is someone outside with a knife. They don't look threatening to me, so I'll just dismiss the kids at the usual time, and they can take their chances. Old people never harm anyone."

At what point did the staff person at a childcare facility, having seen a person on the grounds with a knife, know the age of that person. That detail, known to you, is not apparent in the story as posted, so please feel free to point out where that is stated.

All I said is "I don't know" if the call is reasonable or not, as I wasn't there. You do, so please explain how you determine the age and intent of people at some multiple of tens of feet away.

[LanternWaste]

19. I dig how you leave out additional relevance to better validate what it "sounds like" to you.

In math, we call that Omission of a Relevant Variable and it creates a fundamental flaw in any piece of work that comes after it.

"It sounds like..." is predicated wholly on the subjective and ignores the objective.

[Mariana]

10. Preach it, Maxsolomon.

STOP SNITCHING. I bet she won't be doing any more foraging. What a shame.

I still can't believe the cops in this little town didn't know anything about her, and couldn't be bothered to spend a few minutes trying to find out. First thing, out with the guns and the taser on a physically feeble old woman gathering weeds for supper. Assholes. I imagine the employee who called 911 didn't expect it to go down the way it did.

[mythology]

3. I'd hate to see their definition of maximum force

[Elwood P Dowd]

11. Maximum force was the Georgia guy the cops killed

while raiding his okra garden. Swat team broke into is house at midnight with guns blazing, killed the husband, arrested the wife, and confiscated all the okra. Idiots thought okra was pot.

[ZZenith]

26. Pretty sure they didn't shoot anyone in the okra case.

Plenty of police misdeeds available, we don’t need to exaggerate the goofier ones.

[bluestarone]

5. Well then i'd say THIS IS WHAT'S WRONG

The police chief defending this? THAT'S WHAT'S WRONG!!!!!!!! I'm sure they are training the force very well!!!

[lpbk2713]

6. Only one thing is more stupid ...

than someone calling the law on an old lady picking flowers.

That would be ... police responding.

[Stuart G]

9. Only one thing is more stupid than the "police responding"

That the police use a Taser on an 87 year old woman picking flowers...

say.........How would you feel if that was your mother or grandma picking flowers?

[blueseas]

13. Yes - they must not have anything else to do?

WTF?

[mythology]

25. What about unknown person with a knife at a children's facility

You're able to say no ill-intent was meant, but absolutely calling the cops was well within the range of appropriate responses. Yes in theory they could have talked to her, but her English apparently wasn't so good (no doubt made worse for the cops), but then they are potentially putting themselves at risk of being stabbed/killed.

You can't assume no bad intent because that wasn't evident at the time. You are saying because she didn't intend harm ergo it was impossible she could have intended harm which is false.

[uponit7771]

8. Sounds like they were already pissed at something, they couldn't just observe at first?

Sounds like somethings off here

[SharonClark]

12. Police need to have their tazars taken away until the figure out it is a WEAPON.

Too many cop are too stupid to figure that out and show restraint.

[pansypoo53219]

14. if you do not wanna be called a stupid state. stop acting REALLY stupid.

[eissa]

15. How odd that a Christian woman

would be wearing a “Muslim hat” She very much reminds me of my aunts, and many other elderly women I know who can regularly be seen picking grape leaves for dolma, wild mint for salads, and a variety of greens they mix into homemade yogurt that they swear will cure your cholesterol.

[ProudLib72]

16. Brain dead morans

Police Chief Josh Etheridge, speaking to the Daily Citizen-News, defended his officers’ actions, saying the woman should have complied even if she didn’t understand English.

Please, oh please, send this fucker to Syria. When they kill him for not understanding Arabic, it will be his fault.

[MineralMan]

18. Exactly. Morons!

[Flaleftist]

27. How fast can an 87 year old move?

How about just smacking her hand holding the knife with a baton? Even that should be unnecessary.

[blueseas]

31. Exactly impatience

On the part of these people...

[trueblue2007]

28. i hope she SUES FOR MILLIONS ... EXCESSIVE USE OF FORCE.

[appleannie1943]

29. Good grief. They could see that she was cutting their weeds. So why call the cops.

Oh yeah. The turbin on her head.

[Vivid Lizard]

30. Police Action

It seems to me the issue is not so much whether the 911 caller or the elderly lady's actions were appropriate, but whether the police response was justified.

I keep seeing how British police handle similar, even much wilder situations and end up with better outcomes. My take is that the threshold where violent action by the police is not only considered justifiable but even normal is so much lower in the U.S. than in most other industrialized nations.

And I could very well be wrong, but I believe that for **some** cops, the Taser is the gift that keeps on giving... "See, I didn't use deadly force, but I got to see the "perp" thrashing on the ground in agony. It's a win-win!"