I think the US is preparing to leave Afghanistan sooner rather than later

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticle08.asp?xfile=data/international/2012/January/international_January96.xml&section=international

(AFP)

3 January 2012

KABUL - A delegation from Hezb-i-Islami, one of Afghanistan’s militant groups, has met with President Hamid Karzai and US embassy officials in Kabul, officials said Tuesday.

Led by former Afghan prime minister Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, Hezb-i-Islami is the second largest militant group after the Taliban waging a 10-year insurgency against the Kabul administration and its NATO allies.

A delegation representing the group travelled to Kabul and met with Karzai on Sunday “in a good atmosphere, and the results were good”, Karzai’s spokesman Aimal Faizi told AFP, refusing to give further details.

[Cali_Democrat]

1. And if the US does leave Afghanistan early, the left's pressure will be solely responsible IMO

Keep the pressure on Obama.

[WonderGrunion]

4. Checking out my crystal ball....the future called and says you are mistaken.

History books credit President Obama with ending both wars and his very activist agenda that leads to universal healthcare and full equal rights for the GLBTQI and undocumented immigrant communities. Looking further it appears that "Liberal bloggers" do have a footnote in future history books as the early 21st century equivalent to the early 20th century doomsayers that would walk the streets with signboards proclaiming "The End is Nigh".

Enjoy your Pyrrhic victory.

[JoePhilly]

5. +1

If Obama doesn't do exactly what they want ... clearly HE decided to do that ... but if he does do what they want ... clearly THEY made him do it, but he didn't really want to do it.

Same shit, different day.

[Cali_Democrat]

7. "Same shit, different day"

[Dewey Finn]

6. Well done.

Nice to see this meme get cut off so neatly at the knees.

[Cali_Democrat]

8. If there was no pressure, Obama would have remained in Iraq

and he will remain in Afghanistan. Pressure is important.

[JoePhilly]

11. Good to know that you can read his mind.

[Cali_Democrat]

12. Obama Admin was trying to negotiate a new SOFA between the US and Iraq, but eventually relented

Not only were folks on the left completely and totally against it, but the Iraqi's themselves told him to take the "agreement" and shove it where the sun don't shine.

No mind reading necessary.

[JoePhilly]

13. So you mean that talking to the Iraq's about the potential to leave some troops there ...

and then not reaching an agreement on it, and so decided to not do it ... THAT means that Obama had a secret agenda to keep more troops there.

Good thing you were here to "pressure" him to not do that. Who knows what would have happened.

[Cali_Democrat]

15. The credit not only goes to people on the left, but the Iraqis and even Bradley Manning as well

Obama wanted immunity for US troops, but the Iraqis said no. They even pointed to the war crimes that were exposed by Bradley Manning.

Obama was boxed in and he relented. The left must continue to put pressure on Obama when it comes to ending all the wars immediately, including the phony "war on terror".

Myself and many others will continue to apply the pressure. You don't like it? Too bad.

[JoePhilly]

16. Please, scream away.

I only have to listen to it for 5 more years ... and I'm happy to do so.

[Cali_Democrat]

18. When will the "screaming" stop?

When the wars end.

[JoePhilly]

21. I seriously doubt that.

[Cali_Democrat]

25. "you never loved him!"

[Puregonzo1188]

34. Stop mentioning facts. Obama didn't get us out of Iraq, the Iraqis kicked us out.

I wonder why so many progressives don't think a complete and lack of disregard for any sort of agency of the Iraqis is even remotely racist.

[joshcryer]

38. If Obama "wanted" to be in Iraq, Obama would be in Iraq.

If we had McCain we'd still be in Iraq.

Obama, unlike McCain, respected the wishes of the Iraqi's.

[JoePhilly]

46. Its funny they don't get what you just said.

Apparently, Obama wanted to be in Iraq forever ... but he ummmm failed at it ... and the screamers are pissed off at him for ... ummm, failing to not stay and prove that they were right and that he wanted to stay, but then caved to the GOP who ... ooops, no ... caved to the Iraqis ... oops no ....

Ahhh ... the screamers MADE Obama get out!!!

Yea ... that's it!!

[joshcryer]

51. Obama's foreign policy, with the exception of targeted killing, has been a breath of fresh air.

The targeted killing crap needs to end but he wants to be "tough on terrorism" since the American people have a hard on for that. He actually listens to what foreign countries want.

[joshcryer]

37. Obama merely offered to leave training troops, the Iraqi's declined.

If you want to say "left pressure" is what compelled the Iraqi's to decline, that's fair game, but it takes a very paternalist view of a country that was occupied for almost a decade.

They had enough. They didn't "need" the "left" to "pressure Obama."

Obama acquiesced despite what advisors said (advisors / MIC likely wanted to keep training, indefinitely).

McCain would've stayed.

[joshcryer]

33. If we had McCain we would have remained in Iraq. Obama followed the wishes of the Iraqi's.

[girl gone mad]

10. Right..

He tried to extend the Iraq war, but the Iraqi government held firm to the Bush agreement (in large part thanks to Manning's exposure of War crimes), yet Obama deserves 110% of the credit.

[JoePhilly]

14. Obama Bad Obama Bad Obama Bad

Bush good Bush good Bush good

Let's pretend to not know that in July 2008, Bush adopted the time line that Obama proposed in 2007.

[Dewey Finn]

20. Careful, you're going to spoil the fun.

When I was "informed" here that Richard Fucking Nixon was supposedly to the left of Barack Obama, I should have known the day would come when Bush would end up getting credit for this.

[JoePhilly]

22. At times I think the Fox and friends post here.

[Dewey Finn]

23. Wouldn't surprise me

in the least.

[girl gone mad]

27. Sure, and let's just ignore the fact that Obama tried, but failed, to extend the war.

He wanted troops to stay, except he couldn't get the Iraqis to agree to grant them immunity from prosecution of war crimes.

What an awesome guy! He deserves total and complete credit. It was his plan all along and it was executed in the exact and precise way he had hoped it would be from the very beginning.

[JoePhilly]

28. Yes, he wanted them to stay so bad, that he removed almost all of them within about 19 months of

taking office.

He's evil that way.

[girl gone mad]

29. Right, and the Iraqis refusal to cave in to his demands that troops be allowed to commit war crimes.

with no repercussion had absolutely nothing to do with it.

You're totally right! Thanks!

[JoePhilly]

32. Obama demanded that US troops be allowed to commit war crimes?

Are you high?

[Puregonzo1188]

39. No, he's dealing with reality. Obama wanted to extend the deadline, but demanded immunity for US

troops. This was in the news. It was discussed here constantly. The Iraqi government, under pressure from their own people, ended up not giving the troops immunity. So Obama left when the Bush signed SOFA expired after trying to extend.


No one is high, unless maybe you are.

[JoePhilly]

41. So that means "Obama wanted to allow troops to commit WAR CRIMES" ... ??

That is false.

The disagreement was about under who's legal system such events would be prosecuted. Which in NO WAY was an argument that our troops should be allowed to commit war crimes.

And those claiming so are making a ridiculous claim.

[girl gone mad]

40. I'm not high, I'm just informed.

You should try it some time.

[JoePhilly]

44. Can you provide a link where Obama supports immunity to allow our troops to

commit war crimes?

You can't ... it did not happen.

The disagreement was on under which justice system our troops would be tried for alleged crimes of any kind.

YOU claimed that Obama wanted our troops to be allowed to commit WAR CRIMES ... and that is a charge you can not even remotely prove.

[girl gone mad]

47. Seems now you are willing to admit that Obama did, in fact, want the troops to stay.

He could not get the Iraqi government to grant criminal and civil immunity to U.S. troops.

Like I said.

But, you are still right, right? He totally wanted them out all along!

[JoePhilly]

48. No, did not say that.

But I understand ... you are also confused about what Obama said ... and did ... and why he said and did those things.

You have a conclusion ... Obama, who was against the Iraq war, was actually, secretly for it. And he wanted to stay there forever.

[girl gone mad]

49. Obama Perfect Obama Perfect Obama Perfect.

See? You've been successful!

Obama did not spend most of the year trying to extend our troop presence in Iraq. He did what can only be perceived as the exact right thing by whomever is judging his actions.

Good job!

[JoePhilly]

50. Never said he was perfect.

He said he wanted to remove all combat troops in 16 months ... did so in 19 ... said that past that, he would continue to draw down while training Iraqis to take over ... did that ... when we got down to about 20k ... he said that those should be under US judicial rules, Iraq wanted them under IRAQI judicial control ... Obama said no ... our troops our under OUR judicial control.

This is not that hard to understand.

Or what ... Obama wanted to keep them there ... to do WHAT exactly?? You want to claim Obama wanted to keep them there ... for what purpose was he keeping them there?

There must be one ... although ... if it was so important ... why did he not keep them there?

[joshcryer]

42. Do you really think that what a foreign government* holds has any bearing on what a US President...

...does?

Really?

Obama deserves at most 40% of the credit. Manning and the left respectively and activists get probably 9% of the credit (and partially because they voted and campaigned for Obama). Iraqi's, however, deserve 51% at the minimum. They wanted the US gone, even at the risk of future security issues. They had enough.

*other than a superpower, naturally.

If we had McCain we'd still be there.

[girl gone mad]

45. Your post is full of contradictions.

I can't really respond to it since it's impossible to know which of the several conflicting positions you voice is the one you really believe.

[joshcryer]

52. And yet, you won't note one single contridiction.

The easiest way to "shut people down" is to tell them they're failing to communicate.

I refuse to be shut down by that asinine method.

[girl gone mad]

53. I thought you might be capable of realizing the contradictions on your own.

"Do you really think that what a foreign government* holds has any bearing on what a US President....does?"

vs.

"Iraqi's, however, deserve 51% at the minimum. They wanted the US gone, even at the risk of future security issues. They had enough."

vs.

If we had McCain we'd still be there.

Why would Obama deserve so much credit? He tried very hard to keep troops in Iraq. As you said, Iraqis shut him down.

[joshcryer]

54. Credit is not the same thing as agency, I *knew* you would say 'that' was the "contridiction."

The President has agency to completely occupy a country, or to leave said country, the Iraqi's deserve the most credit for pushing back against the President's agency, despite the President's hawkish advisors and generals wanting to leave training forces.

He could have pulled a John McCain, and just forced the Iraqi's to allow troops (there are many ways to do this, oust the puppet we installed, threaten end of aid, offer up more aid).

Instead, Obama, with all his power as a President of the United States, acquiesced to the Iraqi's. Obama might not deserve as much credit as I mentioned, the Iraqi's may deserve more. That was just a baseline I proposed, hard maximum for Obama, hard minimum for the Iraqi's.

But it's damn sure not the "left" who "pressured" him that did it. The left pressures him all the time to stop targeted killing. As President he choses to ignore the left when he wants to for political expediency. Hard on terror gets votes. Respecting the wishes of sovereign states and fulfilling campaign promises, likewise, gets votes. Hell, he even helped Libya (much to the whimpers of the left who despised the revolutionaries) against the wishes of the left. DU is a case study in how Obama ignores the left.

[ronnie624]

30. The "war on terror" will not end with withdrawals from Iraq and Afghanistan.

We have been assured it will continue for decades, and our government did not just strip us all of due process for nothing.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

2. may I just say..

that would be SO awesome.

[tabatha]

3. I think Obama wanted to leave far earlier - but he listened to the Generals.

When that failed, he said that's it.

[ellisonz]

19. +1

[bigwillq]

9. Let's hope so (nt)

[quinn-the-innuit]

17. Why? Is Iran about to get invaded?

[EFerrari]

24. My crystal ball says we're going to hand off some stuff to Qatar

who has been working closely with us in the region and is looking to extend its influence. And that we're not going to leave leave because of geo-strategic interests, aka, China.

[ronnie624]

31. I'm not informed enough to speak to your Qatar comment,

but I definitely think a major part of the "war on terror" is about neutralizing Chinese influence in oil rich regions. Many of our political leaders are scared shitless of China's increasing power.

[Old and In the Way]

26. Great news...the sooner, the better.

He should have called it as soon as he nailed OBL. The whole reason for going in there was to root out the AQ network. Mission actually accomplished...declare victory....get the troops home.

[bigtree]

35. right, Disregard the rhetoric about staying for the long haul

That's just cover for leaving. The main catalyst is the supply route closed off through Pakistan. Congress just voted in the Defense bill to cut the aid Kerry had secured for them, so that's not going to repair soon. The other routes are through former Soviet provinces or China-friendly countries. It's drying up and commanders can't hand off control of their territory to the Afghans fast enough for their comfort.

[Scurrilous]

36. NATO to pull $30bn worth of gear from Afghanistan

<snip>

"NATO says it is planning the logistics for withdrawing $30 billion worth of military equipment and gear from Afghanistan when alliance troops leave the country.

A senior NATO official said on Tuesday the coalition's state-of-the-art gear has to be taken out of Afghanistan by the end of 2014, when American and other NATO troops are to end their combat mission.

He says the operation to remove thousands of armored vehicles, artillery pieces, and vast quantities of other equipment accumulated over the 10-year war will start soon.

The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the planning is still in its initial stages."

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/rest-of-world/NATO-to-pull-30bn-worth-of-gear-from-Afghanistan/articleshow/11358726.cms

[Bonobo]

43. If over a decade is not ALREADY "later", I don't know what is. nt