Latest wingnut talking point: "Romney gave 10% to charity"

[proud2BlibKansan]

Here's what one of them just posted on a local board:

I wish he WOULD release his returns! Then you liberals would see that he gave 10% of his income to charity! How much did YOU give? Oh never mind, you only TAKE cause you're a liberal.

THIS is how that 'charity' uses its donations:

[LaydeeBug]

1. No he didn't. <<<------CALL THEM ON IT. He didn't give a fucking red cent to charity. As a

welfare KING, *HE* only *takes* while he gets our hard earned tax dollars to ship the jobs of my bretheren overseas.

[catrose]

2. They really want to make that their talking point?

When the Obamas gave 22% of their income to charity?

[proud2BlibKansan]

9. Well, they don't always think this stuff through.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

3. Calling tithing charity is like calling your dues at the Elks Lodge charity.

[bleever]

43. +1!

That's a Bill Maher-worthy line.

[Faygo Kid]

4. Those are nothing - check out the DC temple.

Our future, if Romney gets in. The size and scale of this cannot be comprehended from this photo.

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. Mega church mania.

[LiberalFighter]

14. That suggests there are many Mormons engrained in the federal government.

[GoCubsGo]

5. There is something about Mormon temples that I find extremely creepy.

Can't quite pin it down, although that golden idol on the spire may have a lot to do with it.

[Ron Obvious]

19. Yeah me too

Last edited Sun Aug 12, 2012, 02:14 PM - Edit history (1)

Some of them (like one near San Diego) look like poorly-done CGI castles from a b-rated Fantasy/sci-fi movie. There's something so bombastically juvenile about them.

[onethatcares]

44. there is something about Mormons that I find extremely creepy.

and to begin, it would be the tea totalling, false faced fuck yous they are capable of delivering with a smile.

Maybe it's just me, but my contacts with them always came to that.

[GoCubsGo]

49. I suspect that also has a lot to do with it.

I have had similar experiences, with a couple of exceptions. And, I'm sure that's always in the back of my mind.

[lunatica]

59. They strike me the same way. Wannabe castles without any true features

Like nothing will grow on them or mark them. No vines, no rain trails, no weathering of any kind. They look like amateurish CGI creations.

[Salviati]

66. It's the no windows - monolith - fortress look that creeps me out

A saying I just made up with a lot of truthiness to it:

"Nothing good ever came out of a building with no windows"

[slackmaster]

6. Those gold Moroni statues do make cool lightning rod tips

ETA I drive on the freeway next to this one every work day.

[ThoughtCriminal]

73. Reminds me of Stalinist Architecture

[chalky]

7. Nice...he took the "Lie Like a Rug" exit off the "Main Point" highway and drove the conversation to

his usual hangout, "The Demonize Liberals" Bar and Grill.

Try coming back with, "I wish he WOULD release his returns! Then you sphincters would see that he gave 10% of his income to baby-eating Nazi Ninjas!"

See? We can play the "I know what's in his tax returns" game, too.

[coalition_unwilling]

8. Meh, I prefer "I'm from Missouri. You have to show me." I actually am from

Missouri, too, so it adds a bit of 'zing'

[Frustratedlady]

11. You missed one...perhaps the newest!

http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/nauvoo/

[fainaent]

12. To be fair

The LDS church has provided over a billion dollars in humanitarian aid in the last 25-odd years, not to mention all the local aid that wards provide to their members(assistance with food or paying bills).

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. To be fair, how much 'humanitarian aid' does this represent?

[Frustratedlady]

16. Thanks! I wasn't sure how to post photos.

They've also bought a LOT of property in Nauvoo and turned the town into a tourist stop. Some of the original buildings were still standing, so they renovated them. I can't imagine how much money has gone into Nauvoo from the LDS. It is interesting.

[fainaent]

17. I didn't say

that temples are considered humanitarian aid, although in some areas it is from LDS in wealthier countries who pay for poorer countries to have their own temple. I don't see how helping other members of your faith in other parts of the world to have the opportunity to fully participate in your religion is a bad thing.

My point was that donations go to more than just temples. Shouldn't money that is sent to people in need be considered 'charity'? What about food, clothing, medicine?

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. And how much more could they give, maybe even to people who aren't LDS members

if they didn't build multi million dollar mega temples?

Why do they NEED these temples?

[fainaent]

22. A lot

But that doesn't change the fact that they still give a lot anyway.

What's the point of minimizing the good a group does, by saying 'they could do more'?

Everybody could do more... Have you ever bought anything that wasn't necessary to your survival? A TV maybe? You could have donated that money to a family that needs food...

They need the temples because they are central to their faith.

[Johonny]

27. How much time and motivation to aid is there to converting people

That is always the double edged sword of humanitarian aid. Most religious aid comes with the side negative of evangelizing. It's nice in all that they "help" people, but it isn't very nice that they consider these people prospects to be converted into their faith. The main goal our the centuries of religious charity and aid has typically been to convert people into the religion. Something they is not a huge for the greater good feel for most people. You may like it if you want, but to some people even Mother Teresa had her kind of an * side to her charity.

[fainaent]

28. I really don't know.

I've worked alongside LDS members on certain projects, in the US and in Brasil. Mostly, I see nothing more than a simple offer to share a message.

Regardless, the fact is that the LDS have donated over a billion in money and supplies to people who need it, outside of their own faith. That definitely qualifies as charity in my book.

[fainaent]

23. Also, consider how much less

they would be able to give, if they had a paid clergy. Instead, everybody works in their church as a volunteer.

[progressivebydesign]

34. Oh so all of the people that staff the multi-million dollar mansions I drive by have other jobs???

Sorry. That's not true. It feels like you're here to push Mitt Romney and defend the BS that his 10% is charity.

It is not. The LDS has extremely expensive and extensive media production facilities, they own shopping malls, and many businesses. You mean to tell me that the people who produce all of their "I am a Mormon" ads and marketing pieces do it for FREE?? Really? That' ridiculous.

The truth is it's another religion that exists to enrich certain people, and their only outreach is to recruit more paying members. It's a pyramid scheme.

[progressivebydesign]

33. Building multi-million dollar fortress/ego temples, when people are starving?

That's egregious. They also use their money for shopping malls (to award contracts and jobs to LDS members.) It's like a big pyramid scheme. Their "non profit" businesses are really businesses that only benefit their faithful and connected.

I DO think it's a bad thing to spend hundreds of millions on buildings, especially in countries where people lack the basic necessities. It's not charity in the least... not even close.

[AzDar]

29. They've also spent a shit-ton of that money trying to deny the rights of Gays (Prop. 8), and

let's not forget that Mormon 'charity' is only extended to fellow Mormons, not the general public.

[progressivebydesign]

35. Thank you for reminding me. I'm having trouble with the PR onslaught here this morning...

They DID spend millions and millions in California to deny rights to gays. That is not charity.. and Romney helped to finance that.

[Ruby the Liberal]

30. And MILLIONS to defeat PropH8.

[FreeState]

52. To pass not defeat

It passed, which took away existing marriage rights.

[Ruby the Liberal]

65. Thanks for the correction.

We don't have Propositions here and I always get confused as to which way they are worded (positive/negative).

[kestrel91316]

36. Helping MEMBERS isn't true charity. It's beehive socialism.

Helping NONMEMBERS is the true test of charity.

[Autumn]

37. I would rather they skip the charity and pay taxes on their wealth.

Then they can give to the poor and needy and use it as a TAX DEDUCTION. Just like the rest of us real people do.

[datasuspect]

56. no, let's not be fair

life isn't fair.

[xmas74]

61. Maybe it did,

same as UMCOR provides aid all over the world. The difference is this is a tithe.

I use UMCOR as my example because I'm a Methodist. When I tithe it goes to UMC and then is divided to its many places, including UMCOR. It's not giving to charity because not all of it goes to charity.

As a Methodist I could chose to instead give directly to UMCOR and that would be a charitable donation. I'm sure there is something similar in LDS, if that's the argument that is being made.

[Progressive dog]

13. bite my tongue, bite my tongue

Didn't work to stop my typing. At the risk of upsetting some, I'd like to know why churches are considered charities.

[lumberjack_jeff]

18. That 10% isn't charity, it's an income tax.

The church tracks what you make and sends you a bill.

[progressivebydesign]

32. Hmmm interesting. Wonder how the church knows what he made, but we don't?

Or.. if he defrauded them as well??? Could that also be the reason he's hiding them?

[FreeState]

53. No they don't - that is rediculas

The church asks ou if you paid 10%, yes or no. They do not ask for proof of income nor do they track your income.

[lumberjack_jeff]

60. They send you a bill, they check pay stubs and they don't accept "no". n/t

[FreeState]

67. 100% false

I was raised Mormon and served a mission - they send you a reciept for what you paid that year and that is it. They do to ask for proof of anything at all.

[lumberjack_jeff]

69. They billed my mother in law for 10% of her unemployment check. n/t

[FreeState]

70. I'm sorry but your being misinformed

They do not send out bills, she's either telling you a story or your uninformed. There are several members here who can back me up on this as well (I'm not a member any longer).

http://tech.lds.org/wiki/Tithing_settlement

[lumberjack_jeff]

71. I saw the bill. Admittedly, this was circa 1985 or so. n/t

[sgsmith]

20. What disturbs me about the Mormon temples

Notice how they all are fenced?

[proud2BlibKansan]

39. That's to keep God in.

[jwirr]

24. That is tithing and it is usually only to the church. How much did he give to charities other than

the church? I do not call giving to ones own church charity and I am a Christian.

[Arkansas Granny]

25. And they know this how? Oh yeah, Mitt told them. This is pretty lame.

First of all, tithing to one's church is not charity. Second of all, unless he releases his tax returns, we only have his word regarding his tithes or charitable donations.

[BlueStreak]

26. It isn't nearly 10% if you factor in all the tax shelter frauds

It is probably more like 2%

[progressivebydesign]

31. He gave it to the LDS, and they used to to build shopping malls, buy Pepsi distributors. Not charity

and other FOR PROFIT enterprises. I have yet to see any concrete proof that the LDS does anything but recruit, and use their money to make their own members richer.

[tsuki]

38. I bet his tax returns show that he did not

give 10% to the Mormon Church. He cheated those guys also. My story and I am sticking to it.

[grantcart]

40. I am confused. What charity does he give to?

[bleever]

45. See response #3 above.

And, given your special knowledge, if you should like to write a post about how the LDS church spends its money, I know it would be appreciated.

[alcibiades_mystery]

41. Their latest atte4mpt to equate taxes with "charity"

Taxes aren't charity. they're the cost you pay to live in an organized society. Any attempt to equate the two forms of transaction are ideological hokum. Taxes are your legitimate payment for services you receive, and your implicit understanding that the common good requires expenditure. They are not charitable contributions to any specific person or class of persons in need.

[gollygee]

42. My answer: Ok, great. Then let's see his returns.

He obviously has nothing to hide if what you say is true, so let's see the returns.

[joeybee12]

46. You forgot all the shopping malls the Mormom Church owns...

Tax the phuckers.

[McCamy Taylor]

47. Can I stop paying my taxes and give it all to Greenpeace?

[proud2BlibKansan]

50. Yes

[ohheckyeah]

48. Better keep this info handy:

In 2009, the president’s taxable income was about $5.5 million. He listed $329,100 in charitable contributions on his tax return and also directed the Nobel Prize Committee to give his $1.4 million prize directly to 10 charities (which meant he could not take a tax deduction for donating the prize).

In 2010, for instance, the president’s taxable income was a little over $1.7 million, much of it from book sales. Line 19 of his itemized deductions shows that he gave $245,075 in gifts to charity.

President Obama reported earning about $790,000 last year (2011) and paid $162,000 in total taxes. He and the first lady donated $172,000 to charity, or about 22 percent of their adjusted gross income, according to their tax returns. The majority of the first family’s donations went to the Fisher House Foundation which provides scholarships to veterans’ children.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/obamas-gifts-to-charity-just-1-percent/2012/02/14/gIQAXuMDER_blog.html

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/04/obamas-2011-tax-returns-show-20-5-percent-rate/

[krispos42]

51. Only the rich can afford to give 10% to charity.

And if they can afford to give 10% to charity, that just proves they can pay 10% more in taxes.

[lunatica]

54. He gave tithes to his church. Not charity

Some people should just learn to stop spouting off their stupidity. Really. Is that too much to ask?

[FreeState]

55. Not only that -

To go to the temple one has to be a full tithing member - so its more like dues for a club.

[AtomicKitten]

57. I don't see how tithing can be summarily labeled tax deductible.

It isn't necessarily a charitable deduction.

Case in point, the Mormoonies used that resource to stick their nose into Prop 8 here in California. That was political - not charitable - and should not be tax-deductible.

[xmas74]

58. He tithed.

That's not charity.

I tithe and I also give to charity whenever able. The two are totally different.

[spanone]

62. tell him to release his tax returns and prove it...otherwise i'll believe what i wish

[proud2BlibKansan]

64. That's exactly what I told him.

[dawg]

63. So how much did he give that was non-Kolob related?

(Apologies to all the good LDS Dems)

[gkhouston]

68. I've heard that the old-time Mafia was charitable, too. So? n/t

[Swede Atlanta]

72. I have never understood the tax deductions for contributions to religious organizations.....

Today, very little of most religious organizations' work is charitable if we define that as doing something selfless that helps others or the world at large (such as animals, the environment, etc.).

These organizations use that money to fund their religious activities many of which are used to discriminate against others. The Mormon Church is possibly the worst since they have a tithing requirement. They are a commercial empire with vast land and business holdings. The photos in this post show where much of that money goes. Yes they do support their students so they can attend a Mormon university. They are good about making sure their own members are fed and taken care of but most of that local work is over and above the tithe that must go to the mother ship in Salt Lake City.

He hasn't given to charity. He has given to a corporate conglomerate that uses the money to wrap itself in grandeur and work to defeat the rights of others such as the church's role in Prop 8 in California. The Mormon Church is evil to its core. I lived in a western state where 50% of the town's residents were LDS. It was a nightmare beyond belief.