What's up with our concept of adulthood?

[IluvPitties]

At age 18 you are considered a minor if you buy booze or if you try to sneak into some dance clubs, but you can buy cigarettes, get your brains blown away in war, go into adult stores and even some strip clubs and vote. Trayvon Martin at 17 was deemed a thug by a much older piece of shit who shot him fatally, and half of America thought he deserved it.

By the same token, a 22 yr old young woman sleeps with her boss consensually, and some people question her ability to consent. By the same token, there are people in their 20s having intimate relationships with much older people and nobody cares. Also, had the same 22 yr old commited some sort of crime back then, she would have arrested and charged without anybody doubting her ability to make decisions at age 22.

Why are we prone to infantilize young adults at times and to treat them like total grown ups at other times?

[meadowlander]

1. You can't consent to sleeping with your boss because of the power relationship, not your age.

When I taught at university, I had students who were older than me with whom I could not have had a consensual relationship because of my relationship to them.

[JI7]

2. some work places might have some rules in place. but yes, you can have sex with people of different

power. or else we would have a far worse caste/class issue in this country.

[meadowlander]

13. It's not about relative power, it's about the specific relationship.

If you give over some of your power to another person in a professional context (a doctor, psychiatrist, teacher, employer), you have a right to expect that that trust will not be abused. If someone in a position of authority over someone else wants to have a sexual relationship with them, they need to get out of that position of authority before they begin the relationship. Otherwise it's exploitative and a conflict of interest even if the other person isn't opposed to the relationship.

[JI7]

14. not always , people have relationships all the time. especially when it's the workplace

[IluvPitties]

5. Not true. I know of several colleagues who have married former students.

Two of them actually were professors of mine in grad school.

[meadowlander]

12. The operative word is "former" I hope.

Otherwise that's a pretty flagrant ethics violation that would get you sanctioned in any university I was ever associated with.

In addition to opening yourself up to charges of abusing your position, you are also abusing the trust of the other students in the class that you will treat all of them equally.

[IluvPitties]

23. Believe it or not...

In one of the cases, the professor's love interest was a grad student of hers... and I do agree that was unethical.

The other one waited until till the student graduated.

[pnwmom]

7. Maybe if you can't consent you also shouldn't be the one to INITIATE the relationship,

as the person involved has written that she did.

Times have changed. When Monica Lewinsky flashed her thong at Clinton, very few universities prevented faculty from being involved with students, especially students Monica's age.

[Freddie]

9. When I was in college in the 70s

Students and professors dated and no one cared. The student was presumed to be 18 and therefore an adult. It was a different time. HS students and teachers “hooked up” and while that was kept pretty hush-hush, admin didn’t really care unless the parents complained. The teacher was not fired or charged with a crime; when the student graduated and married the teacher that summer, congrats were in order. A different time. One HUGE exception - one time it was male teacher/male student - the teacher was fired pronto.

[meadowlander]

11. I taught in the 90s

and we weren't allowed to close the door during office hours if it meant we would be one-on-one with students.

We were told absolutely unequivocally that we would be dismissed if we dated a student while they were in our class. After they were out, all bets were off. But in addition to the flagrant consent issues there's also the problem of the expectation of all the other students in the class that they will be treated fairly and equally.

I find it really hard to imagine that there is a university anywhere in the US in the last 30 years that would not have serious ethics issues with any teacher who was involved with a student while they were in their class.

[JHan]

15. He broke an ethical boundary, which doesn't mean consent is impossible..

"can't consent" presumes that with a power imbalance there is always manipulation on the part of the person with greater status. Considering that Monica boasted to her friends about earning her presidential knee pads, she had agency and a desire to pursue Clinton. As her senior, and leader, Clinton had a responsility to exercise better judgement. It was a tawdry affair, it was not rape neither was it assault. Monica bears moral culpability for her own actions, which she has acknowledged.

[JI7]

3. with trayvon martin it was mostly about racism. just look at how middle aged and old ass Kavanaugh

and Trump are treated while teenagers or even pre teens like tamir rice are treated.

[Wounded Bear]

4. I always figured Monica had a plan...

seduce the Pres, and then write a tell-all book after he left the White House.

She made the mistake of trusting her "friends" too much and it all blew up.

[violetpastille]

6. I don't think she had a plan.

When you are in your twenties and the President wants to mess with you, and he's kind of hot for a President? Well...

She trusted her "freinds". As we do in our twenties. But I don't think she was calculating at all.
She was just in her twenties in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[pnwmom]

8. Don't forget -- she's written that SHE was the one to initiate the relationship,

by flashing her thong at him. So she didn't know that the President wanted to mess with her, but she obviously suspected it. And acted on her belief.

[violetpastille]

10. Hahaha.

Okay.

I give and bow to higher authority (I read the Starr report. That's it.)

Maybe she did have a book deal in mind all along.

I am projecting my own twenties onto Monica. If she was all film noir and purposeful at that age, then good for her.

(I thought I was but wasn't, though maybe she same.)

[pnwmom]

16. Someone else had the theory about the book deal.

I don't know why she did what she did. But I remember this part of the summary of the Starr report.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/timeline.htm

Early July: Monica S. Lewinsky begins work as an intern in the White House chief of staff's office.

Nov. 13: Lewinsky accepts a paying job dealing with correspondence at the White House office of legislative affairs.

Nov. 15: During the government shutdown, Clinton visits the chief of staff's office for a birthday party. Lewinsky lifts her jacket and shows him the straps of her thong underwear. Then he invites Lewinsky to his private study, where they kiss. Later that evening, they have a more intimate sexual encounter during which he takes a call from a member of Congress.

[JHan]

17. I think she had father figure issues,

Her fellow interns recalled she was enamored with senior men in the Clinton cabinet. Most interns were preoccupied with dating each other. There's also her relationship with a college professor I believe, of course none of this excuses Bill Clinton's behavior, his lack of self control and selfishness.

[betsuni]

18. She had an affair with a teacher at her high school, followed him to another state when in college.

Babysat the guy's kids. Wife didn't find out about their affair until later.

[JHan]

19. Yikes.

[betsuni]

20. I know!

I read "Monica's Story."

[JHan]

21. Never read it, that is disturbing.

High school, like how? How old was she and how did the teacher get away with it? Like wtf??

[betsuni]

22. I regret not keeping my copy of the book, but it was so poorly written (forget my whom)

that it offended me. If I remember correctly, the affair was in her senior year at Beverly Hills High with a drama teacher. I think he broke it off and moved away, she followed and it started up again for awhile.

She was an odd mix of girlish romantic and sophisticated sexual confidence.