General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsQuestion for Canadians About Healthcare.
I had a little "disagreement" with a work friend yesterday. She is what I would call a moderate - I think she has been conservative for most of her life, but really hates Trump and votes Democratic about 50% of the time although she voted for the republican Charlie Baker for Gov here in MA in early voting. I can't quite figure her out. She's definitely open minded, but grew up in a conservative Chinese family so I think she has some views that are just left over from her upbringing.
Anyway, we were talking about healthcare and she was saying how she would never want us to have the Canadian system. I asked her why and I told her that at least Canadians weren't dying because they couldn't afford to pay for HC or because they had pre-existing conditions and they didn't have to declare bankruptcy because their insurance wouldn't cover them.
She then told me that her sister, who lives in Vancouver and has a heart condition could not get treatment because she was not close to death and that was worse. She said that the only way you could get health care in Canada was if you were in desperate need and that you couldn't get it if you were at average risk.
I tend to doubt her story, but I really don't know because I don't know any Canadians well enough to ask them. Can anyone offer me any insight on her anecdotal evidence? Is this true? What are the pros and cons of the system up there compared to our system (which I think basically sucks).
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
BigmanPigman
(51,581 posts)just to ask my internist if I can overdose on my meds. If I want an answer to that question I have been told by his assistant that I need to go to the emergency room and spend big bucks. Anything is better than this crap.
Niagara
(7,589 posts)I'm glad that you asked this question because I've heard the Canadian HC "horror stories" too.
Kicking for visibility since I'm interested in Canadian replies.
applegrove
(118,575 posts)starting with a EKG whenever I could get to the lab that was free. Then I had an excercise test, a lung capacity test, a lung xray and another one I did not go to because all the other tests were negative. All within months. I had no chest pain. I was at low risk but obese. I was told i had a 5% chance of a heart attack in the next year. I still worried about my health so I ended up being prescribed a nutritionist. No charge. My sister helped and I've lost 20 pounds. Since I've turned 50 I've had a mammogram and a colonoscopy. When ever I go in and worry about something I get a test. Maybe it takes a few weeks or months. But I am not in any immediate need. And feel all my preventive needs are being looked after. And all free.
My dad was in hospital 2 weeks ago. His care was excellent. Everything is on computer: all his records all his meds all his vitals. Nurses very organized and efficient and knowledgeable. Residents very bright and very detailed and specific in my dad's treatment. It truly is a science. The doctors predicted to the day when my dad might get better and he did. He was brought in on a Friday night and there was a team of surgeons right there looking at his case, his age and his options within 4 or 5 hours. This is after an MRI which would not have been easy as dad weighs 270 and is immobile and 88 years old. His fever was a little high and EKG was okay. He just had bad pain in his gut. We could not have asked for better treatment. The options were all up to us.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I was wondering how much of that story was anti-Canadian health care propaganda.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)It stands to reason that if they waited until people had a chronic issue, their costs would be much higher than ours.
We have at least one Canadian who posts somewhat regularly, maybe he can provide insights.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I suspect this story I am hearing is a bit of a right-wing American bias against the Canadian system, although I can't prove it.
zooks
(308 posts)one being that hospitals in Canada share expensive equipment whereas in the US each hospital has to have all the latest machines which jacks up costs.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)We have two hospitals in the biggest city in my county, directly across from each other. Each run the same type of diagnostics on their own equipment, with their own staffs. Literally, they could build a diagnostics building and wheel patients maybe 500 yards at the most to get diagnosed in a common facility.
Thanks for the input.
MrsCheaplaugh
(182 posts)Last winter, I slipped on some ice and broke my ankle in three places. An ambulance took me to the hospital where I received prompt care that the health care professionals explained to me at every step. No premiums. No co-pays. No deductibles. No bill.
I have since been seeing a doctor who has been sending me to tests, also all free. I do pay a third of my prescriptions through my insurance that costs about 35 a month.
I don't know how Americans can put up with what they have.
zooks
(308 posts)Each province has their own system so some things vary between provinces (I'm in Ontario)however some things are the same across the board, one being that dire surgery is given priority over elective procedures - things like knee replacements. If your friend's sister has a heart condition she would never be denied treatment, she will have a family doctor, one she chooses and can change whenever she wants and will have access to heart specialists. I have to wonder what exactly the heart problem is as I can't imagine any scenario where she wold not receive treatment for a heart condition -it doesnt make sense.
My doctor told me something many Canadians don't know and that is all specialties control the number of students admitted to their specialty, for instance, ophthalmology at U of T restricts entry, accepting only a few applicants each year to insure established ophthalmologists have a guaranteed high income - people end up waiting to see eye doctors but that is not due to universal healthcare it's because Canadian doctors have a great deal independence.
Two weeks ago I had a bike accident. I was able to walk to ER. Within an hour I saw a doctor. I fell aleep on the bed waiting two ours for an xray but had been given painkillers. Once the the results came back showing no broken bones just extreme swelling I went home - zero charge.
A couple of years ago my brother was diagnosed with brain tumor - within four days he was under the knife - a four hour operation. He opted for a semi-private room which he had to pay for but had he opted to be in a spacious room with three other patients that would have been covered. The meals and the nursing care he rec'd were incredible. So other than the charge to have a semi -private room all costs were covered.
marlakay
(11,441 posts)Roomates who married canadians 40 yrs ago so they have an entire adult lifetime with their healthcare. Both have told family here they wish we had it. From regular appts to both having children, one husband needed lung operation and got it, all no problems.
One is in BC and other was in Toronto area, they are in BC now too.
It may not be perfect but no one is going bankrupt over it.
They say taxes will be too high if we have it, both of my friends have middleclass jobs like school teacher, nurses aid, and husbands nothing fancy either yet both own a home and still have money to travel.
NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)I've lived in Canada for over forty years, and have used the healthcare system many, many times.
There is no such thing as being denied treatment for anything, on any grounds.
I've been hearing these "Canadian healthcare horror stories" for decades - always told by someone who has never lived here.
RWers have been spreading these bullshit tales for as long as I can remember.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)or something. I didn't really believe her but wanted to run the story by Canadians to see what they thought of the story.
EleanorR
(2,389 posts)
healthnut7
(249 posts)If they think for one moment it could be heart problems and you are in ER they take you in ahead of anyone else, like right now! Anything major they take you in immediately!!
Where there are wait times is in knee and hip surgery for replacements (elective surgery). My MIL fell in her house at the age of 95 and broke her hip and she got a new hip as soon as there was a surgery suite available, which was that night.
A couple of years ago my BIL drove himself to emergency because he did not feel good and thought it could be his heart. He tells the nurse at the desk and he was taken in ASAP and it was his heart, from there he was admitted to the hospital where they did a bunch of tests and corrected the problem.
I've worked in hospitals as well as clinics here in Canada and the people who are in life or death situations are looked after first and everyone understands it and is OK with it.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)sister might have an agenda.
zooks
(308 posts)Rod Ford was diagnosed with a brain tumor, he opted to be treated in Toronto. He was multi-millionaire and could have gone anywhere in the world for treatment but Mr Disgusting Right Wing Pig opted for public healthcare because Mount Sinai is renowned world-wide for cancer research and care.
I would say the majority of very wealthy Canadians use our healthcare system and many have left huge endowments to hospitals in thanks for the care they or family members have received.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,568 posts)The system is not perfect, there are waits for some procedures, such as joint replacements, but life threatening conditions are dealt with promptly in my experience. We had great coverage in California, very short waits, minimal UR hassles. BC system is not quite as awesome, but still I have no complaints.
The difference is no one is turned away, unlike the US. Wait lists are "equalizers", as rich and poor are seen based on medical necessity, not quality of insurance coverage; I have rarely heard any complaints from my friends and coworkers.
Jarqui
(10,122 posts)I have plenty of experience with both sides.
Johns Hopkins in Baltimore has provided second opinions to Canadian residents in the family and never found anything the Canadian doctors did not. We have family members working there. One family member with macular degeneration got a different prescription - the only difference between the two when second opinions were sought. In fact, Johns Hopkins recommended Princess Margaret in Toronto as #4 for cancer radiation treatment in the world and an education facility in Hamilton, ON for being the best in applicable aspects in stroke prevention related to coagulation issues.
Employers usually pay for the single payer in Canada. General practitioners may charge $100-$200 annual fee for administration to those who can afford it but most Canadian health care comes at no additional cost. Drugs are much cheaper and drugs are provided at little to no cost to those in financial need.
Unlike some unfortunate Americans, Canadians do not die very often from a lack of health care.
Canadian life expectancy 82.30 years, US life expectancy 78.69 years
https://www.google.com/search?q=canada+life+expectancy&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAOPgUeLUz9U3SDEwM0jX0s9OttLPyU9OLMnMz9MvLgHSxSWZyYk58UWp6UAhq5zMtNT41IqC1OSSxLzkyi5GGy6EdiGytVsmm5cbkK89OSM9o5Jk7QDnPQgV-wAAAA&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjEieDjrLLeAhVo5YMKHUOQBuUQth8wAXoECAYQBA
I think the wait times are blown out of proportion. People in urgent medical need are looked after promptly in Canada. Elective surgeries take much longer to get.
In response to the example above:
"has a heart condition could not get treatment because she was not close to death"
In a Sept appointment with his Toronto GP, my friend wanted his high blood pressure assessed by a cardiologist. He got in about a week or two later with one of the top cardiologists in the city. Within five weeks, he had had a battery of blood tests, stress tests, blood pressure monitor, special EKGs, etc and was back to the cardiologist to review all the test results. The cardiologist agreed that his heart was fine and that he could try garlic, flax seed and hibiscus tea to try to reduce his BP medication if he used his blood pressure machine to monitor it. He also has bipolar condition and chronic pain. All meds and doctors and tests => Zero cost.
Americans could enjoy the very same health care they have now for 15% or so less if they just got rid of the insurance companies.
I could go on and on. Between the two systems, I do not think there is any contest in terms of price performance for the country. Canada's system seems much better to me.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)kind of anxiety condition rather than an actual physical condition and that is why she was denied treatment (I'm just speculating). I found the story a little suspect when I heard it, but I didn't want to argue with her because I didn't have anything to go on.
Jarqui
(10,122 posts)Maybe she did. But it is really rare. Anxiety or some other reason is more likely.
That friend with the blood pressure issue: his sister in law got recently diagnosed with ovarian cancer. They caught it very early. She had the biopsies/pre tests, consultations, surgery where they removed the tumor, did something with her appendix and gave her a hysterectomy and had her home within 2-2.5 weeks of the original diagnosis.
Another person there has had about 150 x 1.5 hr treatments in a hyperbaric chamber. Cost? $0 dollars.
One can have a gazillion preexisting conditions there and it won't cost them a dime in extra insurance. The Canadian medical people will do everything they can within reason to help them.
roamer65
(36,745 posts)My mom wanted a top doctor to do her hip replacement. Waiting time was 9 months. She had to settle for a lesser quality doctor.
If anyone tries to say their aren’t waitlists in our system, they are full of shit.
akbacchus_BC
(5,704 posts)akbacchus_BC
(5,704 posts)to be. We have to pay for prescription drugs and we have to pay for extended benefits if you are retired. If you are disabled, the government covers most of your costs. Our health care system is not free.