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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHow Thousands of Already Cast Florida Ballots Could Be Tossed Aside Without Voters Knowing
Mother Jones Magazine
November 3, 2018
Since moving to Florida in 2007, Paul Cauchi has voted in person in his Miami-Dade county precinct.
But this year, after the county made a big push for vote-by-mail, he decided to give it a try.
He labored over the lengthy ballot stuffed with amendments, then, as he recalls, carefully signed the envelope and sent it in.
But when he went on the county's online voter information portal earlier this week to ensure that his ballot has been counted, he discovered an error message:
his signature either didn't match the version on record with the county, or he failed to sign the ballot at all.
"I felt really frustrated by it, and disappointed," he told Mother Jones.
"This is probably happening to other people."
Florida is one of a handful of states with a signature-matching law.
Such laws require that a signature on the envelope of an absentee ballot match the signature on file with county election officials.
In a state with tight races for governor, U.S. Senate, and many House of Representative seats, absentee ballots rejected over signature issues could prove greater than the candidates' margins of victory.
Signature problems affect voters of all parties and demographics, but data shows young and minority voters, as well as registered Democrats broadly, are more likely to have their ballots rejected.
While Florida counties are required to notify and provide voters with signature problems a chance to correct them before Election Day, county procedures vary widely, and the same demographic groups are less likely to be given an opportunity to fix any error.
Read more:
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/11/signature-matching-florida-absentee-ballots/?utm_source=mj-
Roland99
(53,342 posts)Xipe Totec
(43,890 posts)red dog 1
(27,792 posts)I was wondering the same thing.
littlemissmartypants
(22,632 posts)littlemissmartypants
(22,632 posts)I'm having trouble making sense of it. What do you think?
https://dos.myflorida.com/elections/contacts/frequently-asked-questions/faq-voting/
FAQs Florida Voting
I have requested a vote-by-mail ballot and now I have changed my mind and want to vote at the polls. May I?
Yes. If you received your vote-by-mail ballot, you should return it, whether voted or not, to the poll workers on Election Day. Your vote-by-mail ballot will be voided and you will be allowed to vote a regular ballot at the polls. Even if you come to the polls without your vote-by-mail ballot, you will still be able to vote a regular ballot if the supervisor of elections' office is able to confirm that it has not received your vote-by-mail ballot. However, if it is confirmed that your vote-by-mail ballot has been received, you cannot vote a regular ballot at the polls. If you think the supervisor of elections' office is wrong about receiving your vote-by-mail ballot or if the supervisor of elections' office is unable to confirm whether or not it has received your vote-by-mail ballot, you will be allowed to vote a provisional ballot.
I also found this:
https://dos.myflorida.com/elections/for-voters/voting/vote-by-mail/
How to Correct a Missing or Mismatched Signature on Your Vote-by-Mail Ballot
If you forgot to sign your vote-by-mail ballot certificate when you returned your ballot, or you get information that your signature on the certificate did not match your registration record, you have the opportunity to correct the situation. You will have to complete and return a Vote-by-Mail Ballot Cure Affidavit, Form DS-DE 139 (English PDF / Español PDF) and a copy of identification. The deadline to submit the form and the ID is no later than 5 p.m. on the day before an election. Failure to follow the instructions carefully may cause your ballot not to count.
Not too user friendly, but there it is.
Here's a list of county contactseat in case anyone is interested.
https://dos.elections.myflorida.com/supervisors/
red dog 1
(27,792 posts)ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)Understatement of the century!
What we really need are statistics on how many people actually check the status of their mail in ballots. I'm betting that not many do so.
OnlinePoker
(5,719 posts)Do you end up charged with voter fraud?
littlemissmartypants
(22,632 posts)BumRushDaShow
(128,894 posts)https://www.aclufl.org/en/publications/vote-mail-ballots-cast-florida
Apparently FL's original law had been thrown out by the courts in 2016 and the above process was the replacement remedy.
Xipe Totec
(43,890 posts)BumRushDaShow
(128,894 posts)They apparently didn't throw out this existing version of the law, where the cure process seems to be the accepted "remedy" and is similar to what Georgia was trying to get (with their law under a stay at the moment if I'm not mistaken).
I expect if you choose to vote in person after the mail-in was rejected, then a signature would still be required and would probably need a similar "cure" if it is rejected "in person".
I know here in PA when I go to vote, I have to sign the book and they compare signatures in that case too (being in Philly, probably not to the degree of bias as other places).
And edit to add - HAVA requires you be able to cast a provisional ballot if there is an issue too... but that might only apply to in person.
Salviati
(6,008 posts)Because either it's a legitimate vote, and the signature just doesn't match enough for the person inspecting it (most likely) or it's a fraudulent vote, and the voter should be notified that someone else is voting in their name (laughably unlikely)
If ballots are being rejected without notifying voters, then the only reason has got to be voter suppression.
FakeNoose
(32,634 posts)Something tells me they are accessing the voter database and seeing that the "questionable" signatures are all from likely Democratic voters. I doubt that any of the likely Republican voters will be challenged. So you're right - that makes it another form of voter suppression.
Salviati
(6,008 posts)... if our signature is challenged, we get notified by mail that gets sent out the next day or contacted via the email/phone number we provide on the ballot, and we resolve it right quick. Happened to a friend of mine when he ended up signing his ballot too quickly and didn't quite match. To reject a ballot without notification, and without a chance to remedy it is blatant voter suppression.
superpatriotman
(6,247 posts)I don't trust any Florida officials
Lonestarblue
(9,979 posts)Theyve demonstrated that they will do almost anything to cheat and make sure their side wins. We need some serious changes to our election laws and a new Voter Rights Law that stops voter suppression.
nclib
(1,013 posts)I don't want someone in an office somewhere throwing away my ballot. When I vote in person, at least I know my ballot is getting run through the machine. Now if the tabulators get hacked, there's not a lot I can do about that.
Geechie
(864 posts)I'll post it again: Here's how to find out if yours counted in Florida.
Go to this page,
[link:https://dos.myflorida.com/elections/contacts/frequently-asked-questions/faq-voting/|
and fill out your information, verify several times that you are not a robot, then there will be a page with this text near the bottom:
"Access Ballot and Precinct Information available through your county Supervisor of Elections website." Click on the link, and that will take you to your supervisor of elections page, where you can request to see the status of your ballot. My county's page has a box you can click, maybe other counties have other setups, but as you can see it's not a very simple process, but it's a walk in the park compared to how it used to be when we weren't alerted to the high risk of election fraud.
Kudos to all the election officials working to keep elections fair and safe!
red dog 1
(27,792 posts)Geechie
(864 posts)winstars
(4,220 posts)This is such a BULLSHIT thing to have to do but its a way, even in California, to make sure this "EXACT MATCH" BULLLSHIT cannot be used on me...
Due to poor handwriting skills (the nuns in my grammar school were always aghast at my penmanship!!!) my signature sometime is not consistent.
The "exact match" is probably with your voter registration card so...looking at DL may not actually help but...
Its all a load of fucking crap!!!
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)I'm currently in Louisiana and lived in Texas before. I don't think in either state I had to sign anything in order to get registered. In fact, we can register online.
Does this mean that people have to go down to the registrar's office and sign an application for registration?
Awsi Dooger
(14,565 posts)The signature was my top priority because I know they are sticklers in this state. I have had my signature questioned while early voting a couple of years ago. An elderly poll worker made me sign a second time. Another elderly poll worker was talking about voter fraud, and acting as if she expected me to thoroughly agree.
Once I heard that crap I realized they are trying to find reasons to exclude ballots.
In Florida you sign the absentee ballot on the outside and the signature box actually covers a flap. That is ridiculous. You can sign so the name is partially on each side of the flap. I made sure not to do that. I didn't want a crinkled flap to make my signature look out of whack. So I condensed my signature slightly and made sure it fit solely on the right side of the flap.
I also signed the box first, long before filling out the ballot and sticking it inside the envelope. I wanted a pristine signature. Then I drove to the post office itself to mail, instead of allowing the carrier process to handle that extra step.
I later checked the available website and my ballot was received and accepted.
BamaRefugee
(3,483 posts)I've read so many articles, it seems like over the years THOUSANDS of ballots have just been tossed in the trash.
There is no proof once you mail it that it actually got there, or that it was actually opened, or that any human being ever even looked at it.
red dog 1
(27,792 posts)(Of course, that'll never happen)
BamaRefugee
(3,483 posts)study war no more
(73 posts)We should be able to vote online. If I can pay my taxes this way, it should be a valid way to vote too. If you really want the next generation to vote, we have to think like the next generation. I would trust it as much as I trust those silly booths that don't even give me proof of how I voted.
red dog 1
(27,792 posts)The touch-screen voting machines are easy to hack into, and those states with GOP Secretaries of State are the ones where most of the vote-flipping occurs.
There needs to be federal oversight of all elections, instead of the way it is now, where it varies from state to state.
study war no more
(73 posts)This a great place to come for the facts!
Pinkflamingo
(177 posts)office and asked if I could update my signature. The lady who looked me up said my current signature matches fine with my 20 year old signature and that my ballot has never been declined.
I have to vote by mail.... One year Rick Scott decreased polling hours and locations so badly that it took me six hours to vote in person. Ever since, I vote by mail.
Ive gone to the My Florida Office of Elections website for this year, and it reads ballot received. The was no other information so I assume it was counted.
Hope this helps.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,173 posts)and thus, how easy it is to randomly (or not so randomly) reject them. I don't know about you, but its damn difficult to do the exact same script every time. ESPECIALLY if I am being watched by a clerk of some kind. I used to have a certain script I'd use, but now I've given up, and just scrawl the first letter and the rest is just scribble. Even the bank told me that signatures on the backs of cheques wasn't even actually required anymore, they don't even look at it. I don't even remember the last time I had to verify my signature.
FM123
(10,053 posts)OnDoutside
(19,954 posts)working with computers.
ThoughtCriminal
(14,047 posts)How reliable is signature matching?
How much does the reliability vary among different groups?
How extensive is the training?
Do multiple people have to agree on a "mismatch"?
When voters are contacted about a mismatch, what percentage confirm that it is in fact, their signature (I'm guessing that it is somewhere around 100%).
It should be the state's burden to prove that their methods are nearly perfectly reliable and that every effort is made to verify before rejecting a ballot.
LisaM
(27,803 posts)One reason I am not a huge fan.
pansypoo53219
(20,974 posts)bjvom
(51 posts)I will never understand how the matching signature law could ever have passed. The signature on file with the boards of elections is taken from licenses for the most part; the way you signed your name on your FIRST license. I'm 62. My signature looks nothing like it did when I was 16. Moreover, the license signature is a facsimile of the signature from the original license application form which is then shrunk down to the nearly unreadable size of a Q-tip® When you vote in person, they hand you a screen the size of an iPhone and you have to sign it without any support for arm or wrist rather than flat on a desk as you would normally sign. The chance of a match is about 0%. As some wit has previously stated, if it was the signature inspector's paycheck you were signing you bet your ass they would say it matched.
Roland99
(53,342 posts)Then we can work on truly restoring democracy