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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI am so fucking proud of you guys!
Wife: Did Beto just say "fucking" on TV?
Me: He just went up 3 points in the Presidential polls.
Beaverhausen
(24,470 posts)That will come back to bite him.
BlueStater
(7,596 posts)The face of the Republican Party right now is Mr. "Grab 'em by the pussy". They have no leg to stand on when it comes to complaining about indecent language.
Beaverhausen
(24,470 posts)EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)A blown opportunity to present himself as a serious person ready to lead but he presented himself as very immature and rough.
Basement Beat
(659 posts)Keep in mind this is post- Trump era. Being able to express passion...with a little crass shouldn't sink a candidate on the left.
Ms. Toad
(34,060 posts)Passion does not require words that are bleeped out on TV.
And there's a difference between sinking a candidate, and assessing his ability to judge a situation and choose an appropriate manner of expression, and deciding that the gracious, mature and yes, passionate, concession speech from Gillum indicates he is the better candidate to elevate to the national stage.
Basement Beat
(659 posts)Granted, Trump is pretty much the bottom of the barrel.
I do agree that Gillum would be the person I would be more excited for voting for on the national scale.
Ms. Toad
(34,060 posts)Last edited Wed Nov 7, 2018, 02:04 PM - Edit history (1)
But speaking in a manner that you know is offensive to people listening to you when it serves your purpose is at the heart of Trump's persona.
My mother, a solid Democrat, says that she is not old enough (in her 80s) to watch R-rated movies. There are 3 reasons for that, one of which is the vulgarity. Trump doesn't care - but Democrats should care about alienating people like my mother - and should be respectful enough to what is likely to offend a large portion of the listening audience to avoid speaking offensively for no purpose other than shock value or an inability or unwillingness to be situationaly aware.
Using my mother again, as an example. She is not offended by depictions of violence that are nedessary to speak truth to power - for example the young Vietnamese woman fleeing Naplam. We needed to know what we were doing, and that violent image brought it home. She would never suggest the press self-censor such images. On the other hand, she finds the gratuitous violence in many R-rated movies - gore to bring in more cash - offensive. She chooses not to patronize such movies. But she should not have to choose not to patronize candidates who are, or may be, courting her vote.
If the profanity is used gratuitously (as Beto's use was), smart politicians and respectful individuals exercise situational awareness and restraint, when appropriate. A concession speech in a closely watched, nationally prominent, is not a locker room. People like my mother will be watching - and if you want them to vote for you, you treat them respectfully. Failing to do so is, in magnitude, different from Trump, but not in nature - because both grow out of a focus on self, rather than a focus on others.
Basement Beat
(659 posts)- but that was very well stated.
I can absolutely understand your positioning on that action.
Thank you.
MrsCoffee
(5,801 posts)es466
(114 posts)Response to TeamPooka (Original post)
Polybius This message was self-deleted by its author.
violetpastille
(1,483 posts)People are dying for authenticity.
And this is how we really talk when we are so fucking proud.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)It's not inauthentic to be respectful of the people you're talking to.
I have a pretty foul mouth, but I never cursed in the presence of my parents and grandparents. That doesn't make me any less authentic. It's just respectful and considerate.
Autumn
(45,049 posts)I just heard it live... and thought he was honest, true, and totally awesome!!!
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Not just the f-bomb, but his whole speech and manner came across badly.
StuckInTexas
(66 posts)It is so refreshing to hear passion.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)It's just bad language and, frankly, it's rude.
I watched it with my parents and they were pretty shocked and definitely not impressed - and I doubt they think that he's any more passionate than, for example, Andrew Gillum, who spoke with eloquence and a great deal of passion.
I can only imagine what the reaction would have been if Gillum had spoken like that on live television - but I'm pretty sure not to many people would have praised him for being "passionate."
Ms. Toad
(34,060 posts)That's part of assessing the situation, and exercising discretion in choosing langauge that is appropriate for the situation.
Basement Beat
(659 posts)that Gillum came across with so much more eloquence while being quite passionate (I hope to see him on the national stage). But I just find it difficult in this ultra fast-paced news cycle world that Beto's words will produce more than a bleep.
Ms. Toad
(34,060 posts)Quite a contrast that with Gillum's concession speech.
TeamPooka
(24,221 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,060 posts)Unless, of course, you're Donald Trump
StuckInTexas
(66 posts)did we become so prudish that an F-bomb is a deal breaker? You know what the 35 people I watched that with who worked on the campaign? We thought it was FUCKING AWESOME!
Ms. Toad
(34,060 posts)how he communicates in a group of committed supporters is very different from how he needs to communicate on a national stage, when he presumably has political aspirations to be a senator, or perhaps hold an even higher office.
I'm pretty sure you don't speak the same way in front of your mother, or your grandmother as you would in a locker room or a bar. That kind of situational awareness is important if you want to be a national leader (and not offend people you hope will vote for you).
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)But you know how people are always saying that Boomers, et al, need to be really really careful about not ever saying anything that might in anyway offend millennials because then they might not vote?
Well, that goes both ways. And being told "How dare you be offended by what he said" is pretty offensive itself. I found it offensive, and I'm not even close to being a prude.
If he can't express how proud he is without cursing at everyone, maybe he should work on his vocabulary.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)He blew a huge chance to show the rest of the country who he was and he came across as unserious, overly-emotional and immature.
I'm really disappointed in him.
StuckInTexas
(66 posts)It played EXTREMELY well at our watch party with the ground troops.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)He needs to reach beyond the audience that is already behind him and that wasn't the way to do it.
TeamPooka
(24,221 posts)least bad part of it.
He's obviously very tired and that came across.
Also the staging of the whole thing was stupid
The smokey background and him standing there in that spotlight.
His campaign was trying to create a moment for him by not having him stand at a podium in a hotel ballroom to concede.
It failed miserably because of his lack of energy to match the staging they created.
Quite frankly the fucking was the best part.
(that's what she said.)
pnwmom
(108,975 posts)I thought he seemed enthusiastic and caring.
bullwinkle428
(20,629 posts)dalton99a
(81,444 posts)They can go fuck themselves
Polybius
(15,381 posts)dalton99a
(81,444 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,060 posts)the situation and exercise restraint when swearing is not appropriate.
onecaliberal
(32,818 posts)LibDemAlways
(15,139 posts)the most considered word choice in the passion and exhaustion of the moment. However, Trump got away with "grab 'em by the pussy," a phrase which strikes me as sexist, crude, and demeaning. The winger evangelicals who voted for him, however, were more than willing to overlook it. Beto's use of "fucking proud" in the context of pointing out the hard work of his volunteers would, I guarantee, have zero negative impact on the vast majority Democrats and Independents and would, most likely, strike many as a positive. The Repukes who would hypocritically persecute him over it, would persecute him anyway.
Ms. Toad
(34,060 posts)There are a number of Democrats (out of the 7 in my family, at least 5) who find gratuitous profanity mildly to extremely offensive. All of us would prefer not to be subjected to it by people who might someday want our votes.
I found his entire concession speech not-yet-ready-for-prime-time. BUT, had it not been for the profanity I would not even have listened to it. So the profanity used for shock value influenced my opinion of him in two ways - I prefer to interact with people who are creative enough that they do not need to resort to unimaginative vulgaritiesl In addition I would have been unaware of his concession speech but for the profanity, and when I watched the speech itself it left me with a bad taste in my mouth - because there are several threads here recently suggesting he would be good presidential material for the 2020 presidential race. Prior to this speech, my exposure to him had been cute campaign videos of him door knocking, playing with kitties - i.e. mildly positive.
In contrast, I watched the Gillum concession speech because there was a suggestion it was good. I sought it out, and came away with a very good first impression of him.
Awsi Dooger
(14,565 posts)Beto had the most disappointing concession speech among the high profile ones
DangerousRhythm
(2,916 posts)I will be forever grateful to Beto for helping get rid of my current rep Culberson, too.
Fuck Culberson AND Pete Sessions both.