America's urban-rural divide deepens

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

A deeply divided electorate delivered a split verdict on President Trump’s first two years in office on Tuesday, one that reflects growing chasms along geographic and ideological faults.

On one hand, suburban voters delivered a stern rebuke to an unpopular president, ousting both Republican incumbents who had embraced Trump and those who had sought to distance themselves. Democrats made big gains in Midwestern gubernatorial races, a step in the direction of rebuilding once-favorable political terrain that Trump had claimed.

On the other hand, rural voters stormed to the polls in virtually unprecedented numbers, delivering once again for the president they voted for in 2016 in a handful of critical Senate and gubernatorial elections in ruby red states.

“We’ve got some big schisms out there,” said Rep. Tom Cole (R-Okla.), who won reelection in an exurban and rural district on Tuesday. “Rural America’s much more Republican than ever before.”

Exit polls showed three-quarters of voters said Americans are becoming more divided.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/415441-americas-urban-rural-divide-deepens

[Quemado]

1. I see a split coming

I don't know when, but someday, this country will divide into at least two different countries - one largely rural; and the other containing the major urban centers along the east and west coast, possibly a few other significantly blue states like Colorado.

[MrGrieves]

2. not that I am advocating for it

not that I am advocating for it because the idea sickens me but if it happens please don't leave big beautiful blue Minnesota our of the cool kids club!

[exboyfil]

6. Minnesota goes to Canada along with Iowa

and some of the other upper Midwest states (Wisconsin?, Illinois?, Michigan?). Probably Maine and a few other New England states maybe even extending all the way to Virginia.

Also California, Oregon, Washington, Nevada, Colorado. New Mexico but you would have to get Arizona to go along as well.

Take a look at the Jesusland map.

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=&imgrefurl=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesusland_map&h=300&w=300&tbnid=vC1rKDatDlzu9M:&q=united+states+of+canada&tbnh=160&tbnw=160&usg=AI4_-kTCoBJnRbDfaTjEuZfR8mIpCA7vag&vet=12ahUKEwiy4v_SgcPeAhUI6IMKHe2VBEoQ9QEwAHoECAYQBg..i&docid=v7uU0eVJiKRHhM&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiy4v_SgcPeAhUI6IMKHe2VBEoQ9QEwAHoECAYQBg

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

11. I'd be fine being a part of Canada, but I don't think it would happen.

Lots of people with Canadian heritage in Maine. My great grand parents were from Quebec. Probably wouldn't be a huge protest in Maine about it as long as they promise to bring back all the Tim Horton's they closed in southern Maine. LOL!

[Garrett78]

14. That would work for me.

[EllieBC]

34. You do know Canada has some conservative elements right?

Like Good Friday is a stat (federal) holiday and “God” is in the anthem and people in the prairies aren’t exactly like people on the coast?

[roamer65]

39. If US breaks apart, Canada may as well.

I can see Alberta joining with states like Idaho and Montana.

[EllieBC]

46. And Quebec?

As an American in Canada I can say that Americans have a very black and white view of everything. It’s not so much like that up here. You’d be as hard pressed to find support to abandon Good Friday as a statuatory holiday as you would be to find people willing to give up health care.

[Amishman]

37. The interior of PA would violently oppose that

They don't jokingly call it PennsylTucky for no reason.

Honestly I think the solution is shifting power to the state and local levels. Let red areas try to support themselves

[qazplm135]

26. I'd advocate for it, but there's no way to do it

because the divide is within most states. It's not even all just red or blue states, there are red states with big blue areas and blue states with big red areas.

It's like our right hand and leg believes in climate change and our left hand and leg thinks climate change is a hoax thought up by Hillary Clinton while she was molesting small children eating pizza in a caravan.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

7. That seems like it would be a huge mess.

No, I don't think that will happen. Dems just need to put in more effort in the rural areas.

[bronxiteforever]

9. Wow I do not want it to happen. Cities & suburbs are mixed in rural states.

If we are ever to go down that road, it would be like the break up of Yugoslavia circa 1989-1992,i.e., violent,intimate and bitter.
In America, the streets are paved with guns and not with gold.

[Blue_true]

17. I agree. We would have to cleanly seperate the two mindsets into

physically seperate countries, each with it's own coastline.

[Blue_true]

16. I agree with a split. I think that a spilt is best at this point.

What I don't agree with you on is the geographical layout. We are better off with two contiguous countries, each with it's own coastline. Each could take the territories closest to it, or agree to a mix/match territory setup where a nation far from a territory own it. I think the liberal state should be centered around California, we would take the coastal states through Texas and some inland states, including Colorado. We would also have Hawaii as an anchor state. 26 states for each country, with a method for owning territories. The liberal country should immediately make it's territories full states. Adults 21 or over will chose one of the countries and get relocation assistance, anyone younger that 21 would get one chance to change countries once they reach 21 years.

The country is fatally divided, we have essentially two DIFFERENT people living under one flag and growing more resentful toward the other. Such a situation can't last, either we part like Czechoslovakia or kill each other in a coming civil war until one side is subdued.

[Garrett78]

3. This presents a problem for us in regards to both chambers of Congress.

There are a lot of states that simply don't have large enough metro areas to put Senate seats in play. This also makes it tougher to reach 270 in the electoral college.

And the concentration of Democrats in metro areas makes it much easier for Republicans to gerrymander House districts effectively.

What we have is a tyranny of the minority system.

[Awsi Dooger]

12. Major problem, for the reasons you indicate

As I posted last night, we need to find 50 large cities and distribute them around the country.

Minus that, let's maximize urban areas like Republicans are waking up the rurals. This should be emphasis from Steyer and Soros. And it has to be done early and steadily. If we wait until final months or weeks and think GOTV will salvage everything...not going to happen.

Here in Miami I was shocked that by far the greatest Republican ground presence was in spring 2017. There was a local election but that seemed to be an excuse. Waves every day were going door to door, hunting for prospects and handing out GOP literature. I had to chase them off my porch several times but they were relentless and would return. That is what we face in Florida. I may despise that side but I always appreciate early onslaught and foundation as opposed to late scrambling, which is mostly desperate and patchwork, never paying full dividends. I would argue that Republicans likely won these two major Florida races based on 2017, not 2018.

Some of the larger cities are trending logically Democratic. I am familiar with Nevada, where Washoe (Reno) was once red but now votes somewhat blue and was pivotal for Rosen/Sisolak yesterday. Here in Florida, Jacksonville (Duval County) was formerly red by maybe 10 points but now has shifted and votes slightly our way at base instinct.

Orlando is also becoming more blue. It's just that the so-called I-40 corridor is not as decisive in Florida anymore, not with the rurals flexing muscle.

[Garrett78]

13. Maximizing urban areas is the only way to go.

[Awsi Dooger]

18. Indeed

Needs to start now. But some states can't benefit appreciably, like Indiana with no cities above a million and only four above 100,000.

In the final days I wanted to believe Donnelly would win based on polling, but on election eve I took a look at Indiana population realities and realized it wasn't going to happen

[Garrett78]

20. Those who think we're going to win over those folks are living in fantasy land.

It's all about racism and sexism. And until there's major media and education reform, forget about it.

[Mariana]

24. Don't leave out religion, as it's a huge factor.

As long as rural Christians think GOP stands for God's Own Party, we have no chance with them.

[Comatose Sphagetti]

36. This

I live in rural Indiana.

Jesus rules. No critical thinking skills. No self awareness. Distrust of "outsiders." Contemptuous/resentful of those with higher education. Willfully ignorant and will stay that way. Mantra is "You won't change me!"

[Blue_true]

19. That involves educating urban and Surburban people on how republicanism hurts them.

Frankly, the rurals lives would totally suck without subsidies from cities and suburbs (electrification, broadband, roads). The population centers pay the bills, but the rurals claim they do, people in population centers must be educated to that BS.

One issue. As you saw with Trump before the midterms, the republican message to rurals is based upon hate and fear. Urban and Surburban people don't do hate and fear well, so finding a central theme to motivate them is exponentially more difficult. Urban and Surburban voters gave us back the House, in areas where those populations went thin, we got clubbed.

[Garrett78]

21. I used to live in Oregon, where rural folks think Portland is the bane of their existence.

Without Portland, they are completely screwed. I always say that if we split the country in 2, Red America would quickly be begging for reunification. But you can explain that to people until you're blue in the face and it won't make a bit of difference. In fact, they become even more entrenched in their ideology.

The Republican Party knows it is nothing without racism and sexism. They figured that out decades ago. The party would cease to be viable without racism alone. There are still Democrats in denial about that.

[Blue_true]

23. Red America would not seek reunification.

They would come after us with their guns and our tech would deal with them. Of course, they can saddle up to Rusdia, which is ok with me as long as they stay gone.

[Awsi Dooger]

29. When I visit the Florida panhandle they hate Miami

I'm from Miami and wear Miami gear along with Canes license plate. Invariably there is backlash. They are convinced Miami controls the state and Miami costs them money. It is representative of rural fear and distrust across the country. None of the Republican themes are complicated. That's why the devotees embrace them, and new converts are easy to find, to also embrace them.

I have tried to convince countless Republicans and young people that voting for Republicans is voting against your own interests...financial and otherwise. The ones who are already absorbed reject it immediately and loudly. They resort to dismissive mockery. It never varies. They have made their choice and are convinced it was not only the perfect choice but that Democrats scheme to take money out of their pocket every day.

On the other hand, the young unregistered voters will listen. I have had many talks at the golf course I play. Young people who work in the pro shop or coffee shop or in the cart shed. They'll pause and say something like, "That's not what my friend tells me." When I ask if that friend is a Republican, the answer is always yes.

But overall the argument is effective. I think we need to make it a national educational campaign. After all, if we can sway just a half percent here and half percent there from that side to our side it is more than GOTV can accomplish.

[Blue_true]

35. Good points. The hate and fear is driven in early.

That is why the ones that go off to college at some point face revelations, cities are not dark crime infested pits, rather they are complex, appealing and have lots of activities and resources.

[Awsi Dooger]

48. The difference in Republicans from college to uneducated ones in Las Vegas was astonishing

Perhaps the greatest shock of my life. In college at USC I was already fairly well versed on political math, so I could go there to win the political arguments. The political professor was a liberal and he was amused by that since I could bail him out when he got stuck against the two loudmouth USC College Republicans in that class. Those clowns would actually stand up every time as they spoke in class, as if they were on stage and speaking down to everyone else. What a joke. Naturally I commented on it. But those Republicans were high caliber and made some good points. They certainly could describe why they preferred that side. I really wish I had tapes of those arguments.

Fast forward just a few years and suddenly I'm surrounded by scowling simplistic hate filled conservatives in Las Vegas sportsbooks. It makes me shake even now. But as I've reported, at least it was an introduction to that demographic. I've never kidded myself that they don't exist in high number. Driving through the South repeatedly in recent years also has served as a reminder. Just stop at any budget hotel and see who is hanging off the balcony smoking a cigarette and checking out your car. Whenever I watch Rachel Maddow I always wonder if she has any idea that world exists.

[alarimer]

44. We need more states.

DC should be a state and so should Puerto Rico, for starters. No guarantee they’d be Dems, of course, but they might.

[Garrett78]

47. DC and Puerto Rico would definitely be overwhelmingly Dem-friendly states.

[Wintryjade]

4. A section of American that claim the morality of our nation elected a dead pimp.

[mr_lebowski]

5. Well a'course the good ol' boys, the ranchers and cowboys and such love the guy ...

It only makes sense they'd love an Adulterous Billionaire New York City Golf-Club Developer ... he's JUST THEIR KIND.

He's obviously lookin' out for 'em, you understand.

The way he's not afraid show how much he hates n*g***s and f*g***s and sp*cs and such ... how much he loves Gawd and The Bible ... I mean ... what's NOT to love?

[Squinch]

8. Iowa was interesting, though.

[exboyfil]

10. Maybe let the Republicans have what they want

Destroy the USPS and the rural hospitals by eliminating ACA. Make the rural areas even more of a ghost town.

I am not serious, but you need to make them understand the implications of what they support.

[alarimer]

45. I think this is what's needed.

Maybe we need to be a full on fascist state in order to teach these people the logical end result of their ideology.

[zipplewrath]

15. Unfortunately, our Constitution can't deal with this

As the population begins to concentrate in a collection of states, the states "left behind" with shrinking populations (either in absolutely or comparatively) still have two senators. That's a problem. Even more so, as populations become concentrated in states, the smaller states still get a minimum of one congressman. The result is that effectively larger states have to "give up" a congressman so the smaller one gets at least a single representative, despite their small size. All of this works in the favor of a "rural" party and to the detriment of an "urban" party, especially as the suburban areas behave more like urban ones.

A country, a government, can't function endlessly with the minority having governing control. It always ends badly.

Of the people, by the people, and for the people has to be for ALL the people. A democracy of any form (such as a representative republic like ours) rests upon the willingness of the minority to be governed by the majority. When that inverts for extended periods, you have a problem. Our system was designed to give minorities over sized influence to prevent the tyranny of the majority. It was never intended to create a minority ruling class. The founders feared oligarchies, monarchies, cabals, dictators.....

[PA Democrat]

22. And like the pigs in Animal Farm.....

all voters are equal, but some voters are more equal than others.

If you are from a low population state, you have a disproportionately LARGER voice in our "democracy."

[Quemado]

42. Pigs in Animal Farm a reference to Iowa hog farmers?

That was my first thought when i saw your post.

[roamer65]

25. One of the many reasons I voted all blue in MI...

was to have good leaders in place for possible Canadian confederation entry talks with Ottawa.

After last night MI has more in common with Ontario than it does Ohio.

[greymattermom]

27. Leave them alone. Let them live like the Amish

in their own communities. Let them get rid of schools and health care and have low taxes. Let them drive on dirt or gravel roads. It's what they want. Just leave the rest of us alone.

[Runningdawg]

31. Just leave us alone - but that's the problem isn't it? They won't...

I've never had an Amish or (Mennonite in OK) get up in my business because I was wearing pants, listening to rock music, reading a science book or actually believed that silly notion that justice was for ALL.
This country WILL split as some point in the future. But I don't see it broken down along today's state lines. Rather it will look more like fiefdoms. Gated towns and cities that operate by no ones rules but their own. Once again, flags will fly to let you now where you are welcome.

[Qutzupalotl]

28. Rural voters don't see government helping them.

Urban voters see sidewalks, public transportation, public parks, construction ... your tax dollars at work. Out in the boonies they can’t even expect the cops to show up for a burglary, they have to fend for themselves. So they see government as a burden, whereas city folk see the fruits of their tax dollars.

[Awsi Dooger]

30. That's a good summary

In some respects it's remarkable we maintained a decent share of that vote for as long as we did

[EllieBC]

32. I hadn't thought of it that way! [phone] for this!

Now what do we do? I’m not going to lie, I live in a rural town outside of Vancouver. We don’t see the stuff the city does. So why not? Why can’t we fix this?

[roamer65]

38. A lot of them are on government assistance.

SSDI, SNAP, Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare, Agricultural subsidies...you name it.

If they are anti-government, they are fucking hypocrites who need to be barred from removing any government assistance permanently.

[Qutzupalotl]

43. The retired and unemployed ones, for sure.

We just need to remind them of what they get, since it’s less visible than, say, a rural development project would be.

There is still a rural ethos of despising handouts, more prevalent in workers, as you might expect. Once you’ve been on unemployment, you get more sympathetic to others’ plight and might come to appreciate that benefit and government benefits.

[llmart]

40. They don't see government helping them...

That's their problem because government is helping them all the time. Farm subsidies, social security, medicaid, etc. etc.

They don't want to see what the government does for them because they love living the myth of their self-reliance.

[Runningdawg]

33. And there go the sovereign tribal lands...

[roamer65]

41. What you are seeing is the formation of 4 classes in this country.

1. The rich
2. The educated, suburban remanent of the old middle class.
3. The largely rural, underemployed, lower paid worker class.
4. The poor.