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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forumsi think rosenstein is actually the acting a.g. -- hear me out
i think the appointment of whitaker might not be legal.
by default, the deputy a.g. becomes the acting a.g. if there's a vacancy.
there is a vacancy, which by default would make rosenstein acting a.g.
donnie can appoint someone under the federal vacancy reform act for 210 days, but it has to be someone who has been confirmed by the senate (for any job, donnie can transfer anyone who has been through the confirmation process from a different job or even different department). but whitaker hasn't been confirmed for any position.
the senate could confirm him in the next few days, but it hasn't yet.
alternatively, donnie could make a recess appointment, which is what he's claiming this is.
but the senate isn't in recess.
not sure the process here, but i think rosenstein could just start acting like he has the job he's in line for and go to court to keep whitaker from taking over his job illegally.
janterry
(4,429 posts)it's 4:40. His meeting started at 4.
unblock
(52,203 posts)not that that would stop donnie....
janterry
(4,429 posts)lame54
(35,285 posts)meow2u3
(24,761 posts)klook
(12,154 posts)brooklynite
(94,503 posts)Rosenstein was NEVER the AG, and nothing requires Trump to pick the Deputy AG as the Acting AG. He will need to appoint someone permanent (or go to the Senate for a approval of a new nominee), but Rosenstein has not authority to "act" like the Acting AG.
unblock
(52,203 posts)Response to unblock (Reply #10)
rzemanfl This message was self-deleted by its author.
good wisdom.
not quite law, but close!
dawg day
(7,947 posts)Then it sounds like it goes by default. This is what happened in Nixon's time. He fired the AG. The Deputy automatically became Acting AG, refused to do what Nixon wanted, and was fired. The Solicitor General was next in line (BORK!), and did what Nixon wanted (fired the special prosecutor). But each of those men had been confirmed by the Senate.
Whitaker hasn't. Legally, can he be stuck OVER the actual person in line?
Not that Trump cares. He'll do what he wants. But that doesn't mean it's legal, and someone can sue-- Congress, or Rosenstein, or maybe any of us, or CREW.
Rosenstein might be fired momentarily, but there's still another person in line-- the Solicitor General, who seems to be a Trump lackey, but at least he's legitimate.
eleny
(46,166 posts)I didn't consider his taking it to court. I'd like to see it happen to focus the nation's attention on Trump's refusal to follow the law or his ignorance of it.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... when things start to get complicated and confusing, she has a great way of laying it all out and breaking it down so that even *I* can understand it. I'm hoping that she'll be able to do that again tonight.
I'll DVR her show (as usual) and then begin watching at 9:17. That's just enough buffer that I can zip through the commercials and end up watching the last few minutes "live" with everyone else.
BamaRefugee
(3,483 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... it's past my bedtime and I can only watch about 10 minutes before I have to retire for the evening. My hubby watches it though.
It really is nice to be able to watch both of them and to LEARN something and to have it MAKE SENSE... without all the arguing and crosstalk and interruptions and rude guests often seen on other shows.
BamaRefugee
(3,483 posts)So I listen to Rachel til I get home
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,177 posts)"The law is a....human institution."
Sheriff Cooley, O Brother Where Art Thou?
dlk
(11,560 posts)He doesnt have a clue about the rules.
mahatmakanejeeves
(57,413 posts)Sessions ousted
Acting Attorney General Matthew Whitaker will take over supervising Muellers Russia probe.
By DARREN SAMUELSOHN and CAITLIN OPRYSKO 11/07/2018 02:50 PM EST Updated 11/07/2018 04:09 PM EST
....
Few believe Whitaker will be the permanent replacement. The White House preference is to tap a permanent replacement who is already senate confirmed like Labor Secretary Alex Acosta, according to people familiar with the thinking. Acosta, however, is reluctant to take the job before the Mueller report is issued.
....
Horizens
(637 posts)only applies if the president fired a cabinet member. Had Sessions refused to resign and made trump fire him the act would be in effect.
unblock
(52,203 posts)it explicitly applies if he dies, resigns, or is otherwise unable to perform the duties....
some people argue that the law doesn't say fired, so it doesn't apply in that case, though i think that surely falls under "otherwise unable...".
in any event, if the federal vacancy reform act doesn't apply, then donnie has even less possible legal basis to appoint whitaker.
Raine1967
(11,589 posts)it was an executive order that was signed in March of 2017.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/presidential-executive-order-providing-order-succession-within-department-justice/
By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including the Federal Vacancies Reform Act of 1998, 5 U.S.C. 3345 et seq., it is hereby ordered that:
Section 1. Order of Succession. Subject to the provisions of section 2 of this order, the following officers, in the order listed, shall act as and perform the functions and duties of the office of Attorney General during any period in which the Attorney General, the Deputy Attorney General, the Associate Attorney General, and any officers designated by the Attorney General pursuant to 28 U.S.C. 508 to act as Attorney General, have died, resigned, or otherwise become unable to perform the functions and duties of the office of Attorney General, until such time as at least one of the officers mentioned above is able to perform the functions and duties of that office:
(a) United States Attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia;
(b) United States Attorney for the Eastern District of North Carolina; and
(c) United States Attorney for the Northern District of Texas.
Sec. 2. Exceptions. (a) No individual who is serving in an office listed in section 1 of this order in an acting capacity, by virtue of so serving, shall act as Attorney General pursuant to this order.
(b) No individual listed in section 1 shall act as Attorney General unless that individual is otherwise eligible to so serve under the Federal Vacancies Reform Act of 1998.
(c) Notwithstanding the provisions of this order, the President retains discretion, to the extent permitted by law, to depart from this order in designating an acting Attorney General.
Sec. 3. Revocation of Executive Order. Executive Order 13775 of February 9, 2017, is revoked.
Sec. 4. General Provision. This order is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.
I came across it when I was reading this article from 2017 about the firing of the VA secretary at the time.
Sessions letter starts with:
"Dear Mr. President,
At your request, I am submitting my resignation."
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(52,203 posts)steve2470
(37,457 posts)OnDoutside
(19,954 posts)be unheard of, for him.
unblock
(52,203 posts)maybe the idea is to get senate confirmation of whitaker.
maybe donnie fires rosenstein and tries to avoid the "saturday night massacre" parallels by claiming he didn't know rosenstein was automatically a.g.
not that that's much of an excuse, it's still at least as much obstruction as the saturday night massacre....
OnDoutside
(19,954 posts)officials can get Whitaker to recuse.
Surely Whitaker (if he refuses to recuse) could just take back the control of the Mueller investigation, since Rosenstein reports to him now ?
unblock
(52,203 posts)mueller reports to the a.g.
rosenstein was only involved as deputy a.g. because sessions had recused himself.
if there's a new acting a.g. who hasn't recused himself, then mueller reports to the new acting a.g.
the question remains if whitaker is actually now acting a.g. in advance of any senate confirmation.
OnDoutside
(19,954 posts)grantcart
(53,061 posts)Demwolv
(88 posts)about Trump's presidency ending because he couldn't fire someone (or the right person) correctly.
unblock
(52,203 posts)he seems to get kelly to fire people for him, then when the victims later talk to donnie, he denies even knowing about it....
dewsgirl
(14,961 posts)I'd bet on Mueller and his team having planned for and being steps ahead of this scenerio.
bluestarone
(16,914 posts)TY You made it all some what clearer!! Hoping your right! Nice having you here!
unblock
(52,203 posts)thanks for the kind words!