People calling for Trump's impeachment remind me of Miguel Hidalgo

[Bucky]

People calling for Trump's immediate impeachment and removal, confident that 20 Republican Senators will go along with it once they read Mueller's report, remind me of Miguel Hidalgo

When he started the Mexican War of Independence, Father Hidalgo was convinced that the righteousness of his cause would carry the day. And so he proceeded to go directly after his enemies with direct attacks, getting thousands of his followers slaughtered and himself arrested, tried by the Spanish Inquisition, and then executed.

Eventually, tactically savvy conservatives slowly took over the war for independence and established a monarchy and dictatorship in the wake of the chaos. Mexico had to wait another hundred years before it got a real Revolution

All because Miguel Hidalgo thought the righteousness of his cause meant he didn't have to use smart tactics to win. Or possibly, a lifetime reading Rousseau, Locke, and Montesquieu didn't leave him prepared for how to go about fighting a war.

The war for protecting the American Constitution is a war I want to wage non-violently, of course. But there are two tactical alternatives facing the resistance against Trump's fascism. One way is to dash toward immediate impeachment and hope we can get to a senate removal vote (based on evidence from the Mueller probe and public pressure from a perfectly informed and irate electorate).

This direct attack is like how Hidalgo would swarm the peones against the battlements, hoping that he had more peasants than the Spanish Army had bullets. It was not an effective strategy.

The other way takes more time. We have to win back our democracy democratically. We have to knock on doors, stir up votes, support progressive legislation in Congress, work for politics that improves people's lives, and earned the respect and support of the public we wish to serve.

Just as Miguel Hidalgo thought righteousness and a benevolent God would rescue his poorly armed peones from defeat, there are those of us who think a Congress from on high will come down, deus ex machina, and impeach away our troubles, thus saving the Republic.

I don't think we get off that easy. Our long march to Bataan will need to run through every voting precinct in every red, blue, and purple district of the country. We did good last Tuesday. We need to keep on keeping on, you keep on putting in the sweat, and do better in 2020.

Our children are counting on us

[JonLP24]

1. Trump was found to be personally involved in an illegal in kind contribution

That is just yesterday alone.

[LBM20]

4. He hasn't been indicted nor convicted of anything. We all agree he is SCUM, but blind impeachment

is TOTALLY DUMB. Would not fly in the Senate. Get him on the policy narrative and agenda and at the voting booth.

[JonLP24]

7. He is an unindicted co-conspirator

There is a question whether you can indict a sitting President. Most likely scenario Mueller makes a final report and gives it to Rosenstein or whoever replaces him then it will be up to him to give the report to Congress and if they are crimes listed like obstruction of justice you move forward with impeachment.

[Bucky]

8. If you haven't figured out that Trump is able to get away with breaking the law

then you haven't been paying attention. We are not going to win at his game. We have to move the conflict to a field where we can win.

The places that we have been winning are in the voting booths. That's why Republicans are so desperate to suppress the vote. So voting is the ground we need to fight on.

[JonLP24]

9. Holding him accountable for his crimes is not "playing his game"

We can do both. The GOP has been in charge so it will be easier to conduct real investigations.

[libdem4life]

2. Great historical perspective. Right on the money. n/t

[stopbush]

3. Bad analogy. Not even close.

You’re likening an actual war in Mexico to the present-day USA, which is not only not having an internal war for independence, but that has a Constitution that offers a remedy in black and white on how the country can legally and peacefully remove a despot like tRump.

[LBM20]

5. It's a perfect analogy, and blind impeachment would be SO bad. Get him at the voting booth.

[Bucky]

6. Yes, it's still a struggle.

I'm saying there are smart ways and stupid ways to fight it. You counting on the Constitutional process for impeachment and removal to work like some impartial machine of justice seems a little naive.

The real battle field is not the legal process, but the hearts and minds of the voting public. And right now, a lot of people in the middle do not trust us to look after their interests.

[stopbush]

18. Fuck the people in the middle.

Ds need to do what they were elected to do. Most of the country hates tRump. Almost half want him impeached and removed. The Rs don’t give a shit about the middle. They get elected and do whatever they want. The only reason they got killed this time around was people voting a check on tRump. Were he a normal person who could shut up, the Rs probably would have kept both houses and continued their assault on democracy. And no one would have chided them for not looking out for the middle, no more so than those in the middle.

[Rizen]

17. Exactly.

Thank you.

[Baitball Blogger]

10. Or, maybe we'll succeed in laying the foundation for the removal of those Senators in their

next election?

Remember, Trump is going to be gridlocked these next two years. Republicans will have no use for him.

[Bucky]

11. Please tell me what senators are under threat from anti Trump voters

I don't think your headcount is going to get to 20. For that matter, I don't think that head count for Democratic Senators is going to get to 20

At the end of the day Republicans are working for corporations who they will turn to for big fat well-paid retirements when they leave the Senate.

And besides, you're acting like the Republican senators are pulling Trump's strings. He owns them. He directs the mob of idiot voters that they count on for reelection. No one pulls his strings except Putin and the Russian mobsters that he's been laundering money for all these years.

I'm talking about the pragmatics of resisting Trump and the fascism he represents. Every call for immediate impeachment seem to be rooted in the abstract theories of a purely idealistic world that none of us live in

[Baitball Blogger]

12. Your kind of reasoning is what keeps the good ole boy network or status quo in control

There is a term that our backwater attorneys use to explain what they are willing to support if done quietly, and what they will do if the word is out in the public: "...if word gets out on the street."

See, they know what they're supposed to be doing legally and what is legally actionable. But they also know that the wheels of justice are slow. In fact, they know there are so many hurdles that have to be jumped, that most people won't attempt it. It's just too hard...what does anyone have to gain...will people be targeted by the hometown mobs if they speak out? See, 100 reasons to convince yourself to stay quiet and only one to go forward: Because, by putting the word out on the street, maybe you'll gain enough support from decent people to help you challenge a corrupt, abusive situation.

By no surprise, minorities and women are leading the charge on change in this era. Your way has gone on for too long, which is why nothing has changed until now.

[Pope George Ringo II]

13. "Wouldn't it be cool if..." has a strong appeal. And that's all Trump impeachment talk is.

No need to base it in reality. No need to have even a slight possibility it might ever actually happen. I'm just relieved our professional politicians don't waste any time on this nonsense except to blow it off.

[beachbum bob]

14. no one i know is advocating blind impeachment. Its all predicated of rule of law and

obstruction of justice

[Vinnie From Indy]

15. Mildly amusing horseshit

The comparison is laughable.

[LanternWaste]

19. "The similarities are quite striking. It is almost as if they are the same person...."

Amusing, indeed.

[Rizen]

16. People who post irrelevant historical comparisons

remind me why democrats lose. Democrats need to project strength, the strength to lead a nation. Not be bullied into submission by Republicans refusing to uphold the constitution. So what if the Senate doesn't remove Trump from office? That's the Republicans' failing but the House won't be ours.

What's it going to take for Trump to warrant impeachment? Misuse of campaign finances to pay off a porn star he slept with while married? Obstruction of justice by firing the FBI director for investigating him? Using his position in the government to further his business? Conspiracy against the USA by getting campaign aid from a foreign adversary?

Guess what? He did all that! Mueller has already pulled over 30 indictments and guilty pleas iirc.

The price of not doing our duty is worse, not just morally but politically. I support waiting for the right time of course but if Trump's cronies try to shut down the investigation it's up to Democrats to pick up where Mueller left off.