California is Using Slave Labor to Fight the Wildfires

[sheshe2]

snip

As two deadly wildfires ravage California homes, killing at least 31 people and leaving hundreds homeless, the state of California is hoping to contain the fires using one of America’s oldest, most expendable forms of labor. The Associated Press reports that 200 inmates from 16 prison crews are being used to fight the Camp Fire, the deadliest wildfire in state history.

snip

Well, there is a list of reasons, all of which reference the literal definition of slavery:

They don’t receive “proper remuneration”: While fighting fires, inmates earn an average of $2 per day and a whopping total of $1 per hour. But relax, the firefighters are also paid with credit. According to ABC10: “Two days of credit for every day of incarceration (or 66.6%) are awarded to nonviolent offenders serving in fire camps

They “work very hard”: They work in 24-hour shift alongside firefighters who are being paid, including overtime. Aside from fighting fires, a California attorney describes the work as “clearing fire breaks, loading sandbags for future uses, restoring historical areas, maintaining parks and clearing dead, dry brush that is a fire hazard.”

The program contributes to mass incarceration: In 2014, a Deputy Attorney General argued that releasing California inmates would “severely impact fire camp participation, a dangerous outcome while California is in the middle of a difficult fire season and severe drought.”

Read More: https://www.theroot.com/california-is-using-slave-labor-to-fight-the-wildfires-1830420400

......................

Hey, they are volunteers... couldn't possibly be called slavery, Damn It! They earned this right!

[LBM20]

1. Oh please. "Slave Labor"??? They are convicted criminals and NEED to pay back to society.

Convicts have violated our laws and victimized people. Duly convicted, they need to make amends and pay back to society. Public work projects are entirely appropriate. Yes, provide for safety, but do public service. I also believe in education and training programs for inmates willing to do it.

[912gdm]

2. oh, dear.

[rzemanfl]

6. my caps key appears to be broken. i hope you don't mind. i disagree with your

opinion. On edit, fixed. Thank goodness for canned air.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

9. Prison labor is slave labor.

[demosincebirth]

20. They do get paid while doing work in prison or otherwise. Not much, but they do get paid

[WhiskeyGrinder]

25. Penal labor is legalized slavery, even payment or volunteering are presented as "options."

[Tavarious Jackson]

30. They get something like 10 cents an hour nt

[pnwmom]

53. The problem is that the state or private prison is incentivized to imprison more people,

because they can make money off of them.

We shouldn't set up a system that ENCOURAGES putting more people in prison.

[SCantiGOP]

21. Exactly, prison labor is slave labor

I don’t see how any Progressive could state otherwise.

[FSogol]

13. Yes, but using them allows the State to avoid hiring actual professional firemen

and laborers. Your argument might work if they got time off for participating, but that is not the case.

[Hortensis]

14. Don't forget, though, that prisoners and prison labor have

both becomes lines of profit and free labor to both private industry and us as taxpayers. A reality begging for abuse, so of course abuse obliges.

[sheshe2]

35. Here ya go...

Inmates do get paid for the dangerous and potentially deadly work — but the pay is paltry, at $1 an hour plus $2 a day, and the hours are long, with the possibility of 72-hour shifts. Meanwhile, the inmate firefighting program reportedly saves the state $90 million to $100 million a year, according to California officials.

https://www.vox.com/2018/8/9/17670494/california-prison-labor-mendocino-carr-ferguson-wildfires

[Iggo]

24. Oh, no no no no no no.

Wow.

But hey, it's a big tent.

[sheshe2]

29. Sure they have. Many, yes. All, no.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211425173#post28

[sheshe2]

39. Really?

Let's take a little look at Ferguson and Prison for Profit.

https://rare.us/rare-politics/rare-liberty/police-state/the-dojs-ferguson-report-reveals-a-pattern-of-government-abuse-corruption-and-injustice/

[pnwmom]

50. Firefighting is a dangerous job that requires skills. Without them, firefighters

are putting others at risk, in addition to endangering their own lives.

It's not some "public work project" that anyone could or should do.

[Small-Axe]

3. The program is a win-win.

Our beleaguered firefighters need reinforcements and prisoners have a means to both reduce their sentences and to do something positive as a way of making amends and re-building self-respect as volunteers.

People are dying in these fires and losing everything they have.

[sheshe2]

4. So are the volunteers as young as 16.

You should read the whole article.

[yonder]

5. My understanding is they volunteer, train

and if they make it through training camp, are allowed to assist as required.

[sheshe2]

7. From the article.

One of the biggest incentives the program offers is the prospect of working as a firefighter upon release. But USA Today notes that almost every county in California requires firefighters to be licensed as an Emergency Medical Technician, which is usually denied to anyone with a criminal record. California is ranked as the “worst licensing environment for workers in lower-income occupations, according to one report.

[Small-Axe]

8. I enjoy reading your posts, but I don't share the outrage of the article's author.

This program gives inmates an opportunity to help others and earn an earlier release.

[sheshe2]

28. Thanks for that.

However you should read this book.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2012/2/26/1068168/-The-lie-about-when-slavery-ended

The author mentioned, Douglas Blackmon won a Pulitzer for Slavery by Another Name.

Directed by Sam Pollard, produced by Catherine Allan and Douglas Blackmon, written by Sheila Curran Bernard, the tpt National Productions project is based on the 2009 Pulitzer Prize-winning book by Blackmon. Slavery by Another Name challenges one of our country’s most cherished assumptions: the belief that slavery ended with Abraham Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation of 1863. The documentary recounts how in the years following the Civil War, insidious new forms of forced labor emerged in the American South, keeping hundreds of thousands of African Americans in bondage, trapping them in a brutal system that would persist until the onset of World War II.

Based on Blackmon’s research, Slavery by Another Name spans eight decades, from 1865 to 1945, revealing the interlocking forces in both the South and the North that enabled this “neoslavery” to begin and persist. Using archival photographs and dramatic re-enactments filmed on location in Alabama and Georgia, it tells the forgotten stories of both victims and perpetrators of neoslavery and includes interviews with their descendants living today

It's been a long time since the 1930's. And in spite of Spivak's exposes which created a stir at the time, the ripple in the water of history subsided, smoothed over into the glassy smooth false face we see reflected at us even today.

We still hear people mutter "black people should get over it—slavery was a long time ago." Was it really? Is it over? What say you then about the continuing inequity of our Criminal Injustice system, our stop and frisk laws and the bogus war on drugs which is essentially a war on poor people—many of whom are people of color?

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2012/2/26/1068168/-The-lie-about-when-slavery-ended


Now move to the future. Ferguson.

The DOJ’s Ferguson report reveals a pattern of government abuse, corruption and injustice

Policing for Profit

Ferguson’s law enforcement practices are shaped by the City’s focus on revenue rather than by public safety needs. This emphasis on revenue has compromised the institutional character of Ferguson’s police department, contributing to a pattern of unconstitutional policing… City officials routinely urge [the FPD] to generate more revenue through enforcement. – “Investigation of the Ferguson Police Department,” p. 2

What this means in practice is that the city actually made parts of its budget dependent on revenues from fines collected by police. This created an incentive for police to hassle people over even the most harmless infractions if it meant they could earn a buck for local government.


For lower-income people and small businesses, this is economically devastating: “These aren’t violent criminals. These are people who make the same mistakes you or I do — speeding, not wearing a seatbelt, forgetting to get your car inspected on time. The difference is that they don’t have the money to pay the fines. Or they have kids, or jobs that don’t allow them to take time off for two or three court appearances. When you can’t pay the fines, you get fined for that, too. And when you can’t get to court, you get an arrest warrant.”


snip

Ferguson’s law enforcement practices overwhelmingly impact African Americans. Data collected by the Ferguson Police Department from 2012 to 2014 shows that African Americans account for 85% of vehicle stops, 90% of citations, and 93% of arrests made by FPD officers, despite comprising only 67% of Ferguson’s population. African Americans are more than twice as likely as white drivers to be searched during vehicle stops even after controlling for non-race based variables such as the reason the vehicle stop was initiated, but are found in possession of contraband 26% less often than white drivers, suggesting officers are impermissibly considering race as a factor when determining whether to search. […]
Nearly 90% of documented force used by FPD officers was used against African Americans. In every canine bite incident for which racial information is available, the person bitten was African American. – “Investigation of the Ferguson Police Department,” p. 4-5

https://rare.us/rare-politics/rare-liberty/police-state/the-dojs-ferguson-report-reveals-a-pattern-of-government-abuse-corruption-and-injustice/

Prison for profit and no, the ones that are there, not all of them are hardened criminals. More like a debtors prison.

[Small-Axe]

33. Trust me, we share concerns about America's system of justice.

However, with respect to the fire brigades, I'm all for them.

There is no profit motive here. No one is being exploited for gain.

People have been dying in these fire and others are seeing everything they have go up in smoke.

Volunteering on fire crews lets inmates do something that is very positive while earning a shorter sentence. I see nothing but good in this.

[sheshe2]

34. Gotcha, thanks. However...

Inmates do get paid for the dangerous and potentially deadly work — but the pay is paltry, at $1 an hour plus $2 a day, and the hours are long, with the possibility of 72-hour shifts. Meanwhile, the inmate firefighting program reportedly saves the state $90 million to $100 million a year, according to California officials.

https://www.vox.com/2018/8/9/17670494/california-prison-labor-mendocino-carr-ferguson-wildfires

That is profit.

[Small-Axe]

38. I respectfully disagree that this is "profit."

We are having an extraordinary emergency where we've been pulling in every firefighter we can via mutual aid from across California and from neighboring states. And we are still outmanned.

It is a catastrophe. Inmates are doing something heroic. It is a great positive for people who are incarcerated to do something that truly serves others.

They are not assembling products so a corporate entity can make money but are saving lives, and homes, and dreams.

[sheshe2]

40. I am heartbroken for what is happening there.

I fear for my cousins. The pictures they sent are frightening and they are still far away for now.

I still do not approve of prison labor. We have 15K troops twiddling their thumbs at the boarder where the 'resident sent them as a political stunt. They are costing the American millions. Why does the ass not send them to help you.

[Small-Axe]

44. I would have appreciated troops coming in...

Any aid, from any quarter, is welcome.

My nephew's home almost burned and my in-laws' condo nearly did as well. The flames could not have been any closer (literally).

My home was not threatened, but we've been breathing smoke and worried about friends and loved ones. The Wolsey fire is in our backyard.

I do not believe in exploiting prisoners as a source of cheap labor. I do think fighting fires, saving homes, and saving dreams is the sorts of activities that are restorative to people's souls. This is a way to make amends and to reduce prison time for inmates.

It is a mitzvah.

[sheshe2]

46. I do not wish to fight with you.

You are there and have family there. I have family there. This situation is horrific.

The pictures I have seen are frightening. I do not believe any inmate would find walking into it would find it restorative.


The president is the one with the resources and he has refused any aid.


Peace and safety to you and yours. May this end soon.

[Small-Axe]

47. I don't wish to fight either. I just have a different point of view.

For example, I think few things could be more restorative to an inmate than saving lives. That’s the ultimate restorative experience in my estimation.

Anyone who has fought these fires should feel both a sense of self-respect and the gratitude of those in harms way.

Best to you and yours.

[yonder]

10. I think Michael Harriot is a fine writer.

And he makes an argument for using the word slavery here. From what I know of that program, I can't agree with him in this case.

On a related note, there is a DU'er whose name begins with an "o". I expect him/her to show up anytime.

[sheshe2]

31. Read some of this, yonder.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211425173#post28

I read the book and read a lot about Ferguson. Sigh.

[yonder]

55. My argument remains the same and I disagree with the contention

made in both Harriot's article and the title of your thread: "California is Using Slave Labor to Fight the Wildfires". This thread has wandered away from that title a bit. Despite how they became inmates, they worked their butts off to become members of a volunteer program of inmate firefighters and are working their butts off right now. They are not slaves.

[Baitball Blogger]

11. What about the soldiers standing by the Mexican border?

[sheshe2]

15. Your point?

There commander and chief got the military to send them to the boarder as a publicity stunt. They joined the armed forces, it is their job.

[Baitball Blogger]

16. My point:

If there were someone to appeal to Trump, can they be deployed to help with the fires?

[sheshe2]

17. No clue.

However I am sure he would prefer them at the boarder where he plays his games. They also signed on to serve their commander and chief....so I guess anything could happen.

[demosincebirth]

12. Califronia has been doing it for years. They also use them for other work on state property. Slave

labor? You must have a vivid imagination. The do get paid, get hree squares a day and a roof over their heads. Don't forget, these guys are paying a debt to society.

[sheshe2]

18. Vivid imagination?

No. I have read our past history.

[sheshe2]

32. History.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211425173#post28

[panader0]

19. Fighting fires is better than sitting in a cell.

There's been a prison crew working on a nearby (rural) road.
They use chainsaws and cut the trees, and others feed the wood into chippers.
They get out of the walls for a day, and make a little bit of money.
Anything's better than looking at the walls.

[sheshe2]

41. Since you have seen them, I have a question.

Are they being watch by a guard or shackled? Honest question here.

[panader0]

66. Watched by a guard.

They wear all the gear--chaps, helmets, goggles etc.
Good behavior is a prerequisite to work road crew.
I knew a guy who got 18 months for two extreme DUIs back to back.
He rode a bus an hour and a half each way to pick tomatoes in one
of those huge greenhouses.
Anything to get out of the walls.

[Raine]

22. they ARE volunteers and YES they did EARN the right.. nt

[USALiberal]

23. Fake outrage. They like it better than prison.They train for it. nt

[sheshe2]

42. How do you know they like it better.

Some are just kids as young as 16. They have died.

So how do you know they like it so much.

[Decoy of Fenris]

48. Heard an interview with a prison firefighter on the radio not too long ago.

Here's a video on it as well. Quick little google search. Three minutes, worth the watch. Most things I've heard from prison firefighters are very similar to this.

|]

[sheshe2]

51. Looks great!!!!

Propaganda? Not sure. However it is a feel good video.

I did post that CA saves a 100 million by using them. Profit.

[Decoy of Fenris]

54. Could be propaganda, could not be. If so, there's a whole lot of lying from the prisoner fighters.

Either way, "savings" is not "profit", it's just a lack of an expenditure and doesn't account for non-financial (or even some limited financial) variables. To call this outright slavery is doing a gross disservice to people who still suffer actual enslavement.

That's a bit off point though and it's a conversation I have neither the time nor particular interest to get into. Just figured I'd post a video corroborating what was said by the poster above. Have a pleasant evening.

[sheshe2]

57. Well

Decoy of Fenris
54. Could be propaganda, could not be. If so, there's a whole lot of lying from the prisoner fighters.

Lol...The all white prisoners in that video would be lying. It was a paid for commercial. Propaganda. If they were only cutting brush on a clear sunny day, then why did two die last year? They were far closer to the fire than the informercial shows.

To call this outright slavery is doing a gross disservice to people who still suffer actual enslavement.

Perhaps you should read the links I left in this thread. Slavery By Another Name. Douglas Blackmon. Then review the link to Ferguson.
They have been trying to tear down the wall of institutional racism for years. 'BRICK' BY 'BRICK.' Some of us have long memories and wish to change it.

You have a pleasant evening as well, Decoy of Fenris.

Nite.

[USALiberal]

73. At some point you just need to admit you were wrong. Nt

[betsuni]

64. Do they ever use bricks to stop the fires?

[yardwork]

65. Aren't you the poster who said something extremely violent about Hillary Clinton?

I will never forget that post.

I assumed you had left DU after that. Guess not.

[betsuni]

72. Never forget that post, telling her to go **** herself with a brick.

Right, that's "constructive criticism."

[Bayard]

52. I had an ex-prisoner working for me for awhile on my farm

He said he loved getting outside to do anything. He would always volunteer. My understanding is that the firefighters are volunteers.

Too bad he got sent back to prison for killing his father.

[Demobrat]

26. Can they quit if they want to

And go work in the prison laundry or make license plates if they prefer? Serious question. How does it work. Are they forced to do it??

[Tipperary]

36. They are volunteers.

[demosincebirth]

63. Yup

[obamanut2012]

68. Yes, they can -- they are volunteers

They deserve to get paid more, and to be given waivers so they can become firefighters after they get out if they want, but they are volunteers.

[UniteFightBack]

27. I think cheap labor would be more appropriate. nt

[sheshe2]

43. I agree.

Yet they already found it...cheaper.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

37. It earns them gain time and I imagine it is looked at favorably in parole hearings (nt)

[Demonaut]

45. Good, they volunteer and get paid for doing it

or we could leave the inmates (who might want to help) to their own devices...locked away.

[sheshe2]

49. Your response?

Probably the one the prison used... the threat to leave them behind to die in the fire?

They did that with the hurricane in SC. EVERYONE was demanded to evacuate, yet they filled sandbags and were left behind.

[Demonaut]

58. Prison sucks but that gives them hope and guidance, for society

did they not break the common law that binds us?

[sheshe2]

59. Dunno.

Did ya read my links in this thread?

[Demonaut]

60. not all, it's dangerous and scary but they are doing "good" and that's salvation for the soul

[sheshe2]

61. Ummhmm

[rollin74]

56. I had a friend that had served a few years in prison and worked on a fire crew

he loved it.

said it was WAY better than sitting around in the prison and it was a very highly sought after job among the inmates

he was lucky to get a spot on the fire crew because there was a lengthy waiting list of inmates who wanted that job

[Demonaut]

62. if I was offered the job while in prison I would take it,they might be just creating fire breaks

which is a distance from the fire, with a safe escape route

[scarletlib]

67. Read the entire discussion.

Generally I do think that prisoners who do work deserve a decent wage for their labor. That said, this is a volunteer program and the situation in California is catastrophic. Anyone and everyone who has the ability and willingness to fight theses fires should be welcome. I sincerely hope that when this is over the State of California will recognize and honor the work these men are doing. One way to make sure that happens would be for the citizens of the State to let their representatives know of their gratitude.

[obamanut2012]

69. Clickbait from Michael

They deserve to get paid more, and to be given criminal background waivers so they can become firefighters after they get out if they want, but they are volunteers.

There is indeed slave labor re: prisoners, but the inmate firefighters aren't it.

Also, for those who don't know: quite a few women inmates do this, not just men.

[melm00se]

70. While some here

are whipped up into a frenzy, prison labor (even for no pay) is explicitly constitutional.

Please review the 13th Amendment (emphasis added):

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

In addition, to quote Chandra Bozelko:

It's people on the outside who rail against prison work assignments, particularly hiring prisoners to fight fires.

[pwb]

71. It gets them out for a while.

This is a real stretch.