Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

iluvtennis

(19,852 posts)
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 05:12 PM Nov 2018

Betsy DeVos wants to let accused sex abusers cross examine their victims


@RepJoeKennedy 1h1 hour ago

No survivor should be cross-examined by his or her accused rapist. Ever. Full stop.





----
Something is very wrong with DeVos, very wrong.
15 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies

mahatmakanejeeves

(57,425 posts)
2. With all due respect, shouldn't the accused have the right to face his accuser? Also, this:
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 05:21 PM
Nov 2018
Betsy DeVos set to bolster rights of accused in rewrite of sexual assault rules

By Laura Meckler
Reporter covering national education policy and trends, and the Education Department
November 14
....

The most significant change would guarantee the accused the right to cross-examine their accusers, though that would have to be conducted by advisers or attorneys for the people involved, rather than by the person accused of misconduct. If requested, the parties could be in separate rooms during the cross-examination, an administration official said. They said this was done to bolster the due-process rights of the accused while assuring that victims are not directly confronted by their assailants.

The Obama guidelines had strongly discouraged the use of direct cross-examination. The earlier DeVos draft allowed cross-examination but did not require schools to offer it as an option.
....

Laura Meckler is a national education writer covering national trends, federal policy and the Education Department. She came to The Washington Post from the Wall Street Journal, where her beats included presidential politics, the White House, health care, immigration and demographics. Follow https://twitter.com/laurameckler

I note this part:

The most significant change would guarantee the accused the right to cross-examine their accusers, though that would have to be conducted by advisers or attorneys for the people involved, rather than by the person accused of misconduct. If requested, the parties could be in separate rooms during the cross-examination, an administration official said. They said this was done to bolster the due-process rights of the accused while assuring that victims are not directly confronted by their assailants.

I thought that was one of those "American system of justice" things.

If I were accused of something, and I felt I had a case, I'd like to be able to ask the accuser a few questions, even if it were vicariously, through my attorney.

More:

The Obama guidelines had strongly discouraged the use of direct cross-examination. The earlier DeVos draft allowed cross-examination but did not require schools to offer it as an option.

Recent court decisions requiring public universities to allow the accused the right to cross-examination when credibility is an issue figured into the administration’s reasoning, two people said.

Some White House officials urged going further to include a mandatory cross-examination provision, two people familiar with internal discussions said. They said others in the administration argued that mandatory questioning was ill-advised, potentially traumatic for victims and not required in court hearings.

The proposal will include language barring questioning about an accuser’s sexual history, one administration official said.

So there are protections.

iluvtennis

(19,852 posts)
3. As long as it's done via lawyers/3rd party mediator, I'm cool with it. But to allow the accused
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 05:24 PM
Nov 2018

to do direct questioning of the accuser is not right

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
4. You're not reading the proposed policy very closely at all, are you?
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 05:26 PM
Nov 2018

You should try... it adds relevant context you've missed by a Texas mile.

Ms. Toad

(34,066 posts)
15. Yes - but this goes well beyond granting a right to confront the accuser
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 10:49 PM
Nov 2018

Even when the accused asks direct and cross examinations of every witness, and asks questions through a neutral 3rd party (with full control of the questions asked, including modifying them on the fly), it does not satisfy the new 6th circuit opinion (which I believe this is based on - since that decision came out very near the time the last revision came out, creating a conflict between Department of Ed regulations and the 6th Circuit Opinion)

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,328 posts)
5. From the wapo article:
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 05:26 PM
Nov 2018
The most significant change would guarantee the accused the right to cross-examine their accusers, though that would have to be conducted by advisers or attorneys for the people involved, rather than by the person accused of misconduct. If requested, the parties could be in separate rooms during the cross-examination, an administration official said. They said this was done to bolster the due-process rights of the accused while assuring that victims are not directly confronted by their assailants.


mahatmakanejeeves

(57,425 posts)
10. "I gave up counting the number of ways this is dishonest and stupid."
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 09:31 PM
Nov 2018
I gave up counting the number of ways this is dishonest and stupid.


 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
12. WTF is wrong with that evil woman?
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 10:23 PM
Nov 2018

I really wonder what is in her past to make her so heartless and so on the side of the perpetrators. I think that Betsy DeVos has a lot of skeletons in her closet, and so does her family. I would like to see someone dig very deeply into their history.

Quixote1818

(28,930 posts)
13. This may be the most disgusting thing I have heard from the Trump Admin
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 10:35 PM
Nov 2018

in like a month or two. Holy shit is this fucked up!

Ms. Toad

(34,066 posts)
14. Unfortunately, there is a 6th Circuit opinion
Thu Nov 15, 2018, 10:45 PM
Nov 2018

that requires just that.

There was a strong dissent suggesting that the majority went farther than was required, or supported. The full circuit refused to rehear it. So it is already law in all of the states governed by the 6th Circuit. (Direct examination by the accused - or their representative; prior to that time, the school could require the questions be asked by one of the fact-finders.)

https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=6da5f673-f711-47cb-a1f9-50b23adc74aa

As vile as De Vos is, this isn't her doing. The regulations issued shorfly after the 6th Circuit decision still allowed for questions to be asked through a neutral third party. (Her regulations cannot override the decision in the 6th circuit, because it was decided on constitutional grounds.)

If the regulation tracks the decision, the right to cross-examination is limited to decisions in which the case hinges on the credibiilty of the accused and the survivor.

I'm dealing with the aftermath of hte court decision, and it sucks.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Betsy DeVos wants to let ...