It's her turn?

[redixdoragon]

[link:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/22/hillary-clinton-europe-must-curb-immigration-stop-populists-trump-brexit|

Of everything we at least have to put a foot down on this. The humanitarian in all of us has to be upset that "we just have to keep them out for a political reason". It's the equivilant of having a pandemic, but the vaccine is expensive, so best to quarentine and let die the victims of the plague.

She isn't calling for a wall, but it's in the same spirit. How can we blame people who've been displaced, refugees, for the reactions of these right wing, white, fascistic, reactionary groups.

And before you say it's pragmatic. These are people, a lot of whom are just looking to escape a hell they don't want to die in.

[lapfog_1]

1. Wouldn't it be better to keep them from being refugees to begin with?

The challenges are many but this would be a better result... However, it means solving climate change, introducing democratic reforms in a culture that rejects democracy, advocating for women's rights and education, and, almost certainly, introducing family planning. All in a culture that rejects most of these concepts.

[redixdoragon]

3. Well then that would require...

Not bombing their countries, either directly or through allies

Also not having an economic system that uses other nations, depriving them of natural resources and/or claling on their peoples for cheap labor to bolster our consumer goods.

Also not assuming that a culture we're not a part of nor live in outright rejects democracy as a whole. There are women right now suffering in Saudi Arabia for their sufferage movement.

[jalan48]

2. Intervention in Third World countries by developed nations, including the US, has been part of the

cause for the refugee situation. Climate change, driven by the burning of fossil fuels primarily by developed nations (automobiles) is another cause.

[redixdoragon]

5. We may have a lot of cars

But all our cars don't hold a candle to a group of 100 companies that produce about 75% of the greenhouse gas pollution we suffer.

[jalan48]

7. Yes, I was just using it as an example. Not to mention the forests being decimated around the world.

Forests which help take the carbon out of the air. American's love their privileges associated with the use of fossil fuels, including the use of coal to produce electricity.

[redixdoragon]

8. Good point on coal

Which makes me really REALLY worry.

During the latter stage of WWII, Germany hit a fuel crisis. To solve the problemt hey utilized large coal reserves to liquify the coal to make it a kind of gasoline or burnable fuel for their vehicles. This is an EXTREMLY dirty process, both in the conversion of coal and the burning of the fuel afterwards. If we resort to that, we are quite screwed. Imagine the horrors of industrial revolution London, or current Beijing, but worse.

[skylucy]

4. I urge everyone to actually READ the article...Read everything that Hillary said before you buy into

attacking her.

[redixdoragon]

6. I did read what she said.

“I think Europe needs to get a handle on migration because that is what lit the flame,” Clinton said, speaking as part of a series of interviews with senior centrist political figures about the rise of populists, particularly on the right, in Europe and the Americas.

“I admire the very generous and compassionate approaches that were taken particularly by leaders like Angela Merkel, but I think it is fair to say Europe has done its part, and must send a very clear message – ‘we are not going to be able to continue provide refuge and support’ – because if we don’t deal with the migration issue it will continue to roil the body politic.”

It does say for the sake of politics, keep the migrants out. We need to win votes, which has more importance than the suffering of refugees. These are people.

[marylandblue]

9. She is correct because the alternatives are worse

If majorities or even substantial minorities of a country do not want to take in refugees and will sacrifice democracy and the rule of law to keep them out, then we are unable to take them in and must find some other way to help them. Otherwise we will end up with undemocratic, oppressive regimes that will harm the people we are trying to help, plus harm many other people.

We can call them racist all we want but it will not change their minds.