General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBill Maher Says Outrage Over His Stan Lee Comments "Proves My Point"
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/bill-maher-outrage-stan-lee-comments-proves-my-point-1163378Maher continued, "Yeah, fine. I am agnostic on Stan Lee. I don't read comic books. I didn't even read them when I was a child. What I was saying is, a culture that thinks that comic books and comic book movies are profound meditations on the human condition is a dumb fucking culture. And for people to get mad at that just proves my point."
OK Bill, first off, not this does not prove any point about a "dumb fucking culture." The fact is, for all the four color paint, these comics have addressed everything from Race to religion in a way that resonates with people, as opposed to a washed up comedian who needs to say fuck every three second on HBO to seem edgy. For someone that has never even tried to be highbrow, unlike your colleagues Penn Jilette (with his atheists books even Dick Dawkins says are great" to Jim Carrey (who became a great poltical commentator, someone get HIm a show), or even Matt and trey from "South Park" (who also got a Tony award for a musical) you have NEVER, EVER gone beyond your comfrt zone, they place where you knwo you can churn out the same sloppy schitck and get paid.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Jeffersons Ghost
(15,235 posts)Marvel Comic Books were great! I also collected "DC Comics" but morons in D.C. like tRump aren't that funny...
robbob
(3,528 posts)arent you getting just a wee bit tired of the never ending steam of comic book sagas being churned out by Hollywood? Some buddies dragged me out to the Infinity Wars blockbuster last summer and I came to the realization that I was about four movies behind in even knowing the cast of characters! So I made an attempt to fill in the backstory on Netflix until I finally realized just how bored and tired I am of these juvenile explosion driven epic childrens stories.
Not putting Stan the man down; I grew up on Spider Man, Thor and Hulk, but when will Hollywood start making serious movies for adults again? I guess when the public starts attending such movies the way they will the latest Star Wars saga. Which, I believe, might be the point Bill was trying to make.
Midwestern Democrat
(806 posts)of bringing back an adult cinema. This is what caused the film renaissance of the 1970s - much of Hollywood came pretty close to going bankrupt in the late 1960s because audiences were getting very bored with big, bloated Old Hollywood product like gargantuan musicals and these films started losing a lot of money - so Hollywood was forced to revitalize itself with new stars, new directors, new subject matter. I'm afraid that's what it's going to take to have a new Hollywood renaissance.
Revanchist
(1,375 posts)There were five live action superhero movies this past year and the current rotten tomatoes best of 2018 contains 148 films so if you can't find a decent adult movie then your not looking very hard.
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)All playing in main theaters right now.
I think its a very common misperception about availability of good adult alternatives. I strongly suspect that its due to the advertising dollars spent.
Bucky
(53,998 posts)It was basically a comic book movie. It was there to make us feel good, not challenge the viewer.
I'm going to go see Green Book this weekend. Let me add to your list of great grown up movies "Can You Ever Forgive Me?" with Melissa McCarthy.
obamanut2012
(26,068 posts)Exactly! LOTS of stuff out there, and on Amazon Prime, Netflix, Hulu, etc.
TexasBushwhacker
(20,179 posts)have gone. In a sense, it's a shame, but with all those different avenues, the market for adult stories is bigger than ever. It's just that, as Gloria Swanson said, it's the pictures that got small.
But while a comic book or action movie makes use of a big screen and great sound system, a film like "Green Book" probably doesn't lose much if you stream it at home, especially when you can get a 50" TV for less than $400.
Personally, I'll still go see "movies for grown ups" in the theater because I want them to keep making them. But they'll have to make them with fairly limited budgets because they aren't going to make hundreds of millions in the box office. The budget for Green Book was around $25 Million. They have to make double to break even, so will it bring in $50 Million?
The good news is that adult dramas will still get made because they win Oscars, and that is still the award everyone in the movie business wants on their mantel.
TheBlackAdder
(28,186 posts)As far as "serious movies for adults again" let's be honest, a lot those tend to be as hollow as the movies that are lowbrow...I mean ca we have an oscar fulm that is not about some on charming white people sufferign, or perhaps have a black film that is considered good, and not just slammed because it is black? For that matter, can we have a poltical commentary show that is not some guy using the same scithck he has done for 20 damned years, and be called 'edgy". Bill, if you are still doing what you did for 20 years, you are NOT edgy, though do not think we forgot how you used the n word.
Cha
(297,160 posts)I bet so many comic book aficionados have heart and Voted BLUE.
the fox "news" brainwashed truthers are the fucking fascist trump voters.
Onyrleft
(344 posts)meadowlander
(4,394 posts)condition?
People aren't mad at him for not liking comic books. They're made at him for spitting on the grave of a decent man who did a lot for progressive culture when he admits that he doesn't know anything about what he's talking about.
And now he's doubling down on his ignorant, insensitive bullshit.
Cha
(297,160 posts)think of that?!
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)I do love watching Real Time. The irony of both his original statement and then doubling down on it isnt lost on me. As much as he rails.. week after week.. about how the right refuses to listen to logic, accept everything based on pre-conceived and often false notions.. that hes so quick to judge.. then double down on something he admittedly doesnt understand.
In his approach here, hes illustrating all of the attributes so common on the right that he detests.
Listen, reflect, accept his own lack of expertise on the topic, learn, and grow from it.
realmirage
(2,117 posts)holka22
(4 posts)There are some amazing graphic novels out there, like Mouse or Persepolis, for example. But I get Bill's point. You can love superheroes, but at the same time understand that they don't equal the linguistic brilliance of a Shakespeare or a Tolstoy.
Reader Rabbit
(2,624 posts)In that era, all theater was thought of as entertainment, not culture, as it is now. Possibly what is considered pedestrian today will be seen as high art in 400 years.
MrScorpio
(73,630 posts)amuse bouche
(3,657 posts)I never miss Real Time. Maher is fab and makes me laugh. He's brilliant
BlueStater
(7,596 posts)I'll never understand this thought process that comic books can't be considered art. They're a medium for telling a story, absolutely no different than movies and television. Is it because they're drawings? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
OnDoutside
(19,956 posts)I did like the Bill Bixby Hulk show, but that's about it.
Xolodno
(6,390 posts)The X-men, X-Factor, Excalibur, etc. Who are super groups who fought against being second class citizens...oh and not to mention genocide against them...is a "dumb fucking culture?"
Northstar was gay and died of AIDS...is that "dumb fucking culture?"
The Punisher, an vigilante truly with questionable "credentials" taking the law into his own hands....uhm..more "dumb fucking culture?"
Iron Man, an alcoholic and a CEO who tended to treat some of his employee's like shit...some even going against him, such as War Machine..."dumb fucking culture?"
How about Reed Richards, Mr. Fantastic, during the Civil War, sided with the government in its authoritarianism..."dumb fucking culture?"
But I get that some things are a bit complicated....such as the Silver Surfer....a genocidal maniac who worked for the epitome of a narcissist, trying to redeem himself...guess that's more dumb culture.
Or maybe, Spider Man, who works for essentially is today's Fox News...that persecutes him. Too complicated?
I could go on....but then maybe he read too many DC comics......
Sorry, couldn't resist the dig there...
obamanut2012
(26,068 posts)And who is still being stalked by the bastard, and is using her powers to help others and her own psyche.
Cha
(297,160 posts)I don't get into a lot of them but that doesn't mean I don't understand why other peeps would like them.
Good Grief.. we all have different tastes in Movies like Music. To each his/her own.. have at it.
JI7
(89,247 posts)they are less likely to support trump so his point on that having something to do with trump being president doesn't make much sense.
but i do think he probably shouldn't have been taken too seriously. it's not like he wrote some op ed on it .
ProfessorGAC
(65,006 posts)If you can't identify Maher as a staunch ally, then you are willfully narrowing your attention to this one little thing about comic books
Your critique of his comic skills is equally ridiculous, with the same causes
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)when we had a common enemy.
Maher is an independent libertarian who on most issues leans left. He supported Nader in 2000. He is an anti-Islamic bigot. And he unfairly attacks Democrats at times.
We should never subscribe to the doctrine that anyone who is an ally must not be criticized. If someone, even a strong Democrat, says or does something objectionable, we should call them out on it and not give them a pass. We should not be sycophants.
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)As we used to say on USENET, "This should be in the FAQ".
Fatemah2774
(245 posts)I am sure to be disparaged by that statement but this is my opinion. He has made ludicrous statements before including calling the US military cowards after the hijackings of planes by the 9/11 terrorists. He has made comments reflecting anti semitism (remember, Muslims are also Semites) by stating that there is only Islamic terrorism. He had used his bully pulpit to demean and deride others in our tent rather than uplift and bring together our tent. His challenging of RW pundits always has found him lacking in both facts and coherent arguments.
I don't mind that others here on this forum watch him or find him funny and engaging.
I obviously do not.
His latest statement indicates his insensitive and insulting manners to demean a person whose death was certain but still shocking to his many devoted fans. He doubles down on his vile statement and will continue to do so looking for a distraction much like the ploy used by the current occupant of the White House. To be fair, Maher is guilty of that SQUIRREL and SHINY OBJECT ruse clearly not in sheer numbers used but certainly in intent as the current despicable presidential administration.
If this post upsets others who find Bill Maher edgy, funny and or witty, I am sorry. But to paraphrase Thomas Jefferson if the King is a tyrant....well if Bill Maher is a jerk,
we might as well say so.
no_hypocrisy
(46,086 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Circular reasoning, indeed! "Hey comic fans, you're stupid! And if this offends you, or if you disagree with me, then that PROVES that you're stupid!"
I can't stand him.
Solly Mack
(90,762 posts)johnp3907
(3,730 posts)Always was. Never knew anything about politics, but morons see him as a political commentator.
madinmaryland
(64,931 posts)Im 57 and had never heard of him until he died. I read comic books when I was in middle school, but lost interest by the time I was in high school.
Im glad he was able to make people happy And may he Rest In Peace.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)and all the pseudo-intellectuals out there who are decrying that we are not doing great pictures of the 1970s which were "real movies."
Okay, I really do not want to make this about whose art pleases who. There are some people who think the cost so someone that needs be spoken of in the same breath as Leonardo da Vinci. There are also others who think that Picasso is an example of how the 20th century ruined art and made a complete shambles out of what art was supposed to be. I will admit there are times I have been on both sides of that camp namely because there are some works of Picasso Lake le Reve why can see what Picasso was trying to do. On the other hand there are some very famous Picassos hanging in museums right now that many people are saying wonderful things about where, lo and behold, Picasso admitted he was just trying to make a buck.
Now, why am I putting Stanley and Picasso in the same sentence, in part because you will find one lover be fair these two things one is crap and the other is great, and you will find someone else that thinks the exact opposite. So, how does this relate to Bill Maher?
The thing is, parts that are considered the fringe, ones that are not considered good company at cocktail parties or salons, are very often the art that actually speaks about controversial issues.yes, Stanleys comic books were very often the first to tackle subjects such as racism, sexism, domestic abuse, drug addiction, disease, and oh yes gender issues, and I dont mean male and female. They did this long before the sitcoms or films that are in line for an Oscar ever even thought of touching them. Now I am not just talking about the fact that for example, mutants were considered a metaphor for homosexuals, although they really didnt do much to hide it either with certain characters like Northstar being very out homosexuals. You could go even further considering that magneto is a Holocaust survivor who thinks that because of what happened to the Jews his people will not be safe unless they have an independent homeland. By the way, in the current comic books, former heroine Jean Gray is actually turning more towards magnetos vision rather been Prof. X, sorry for the spoiler now, think of how Hollywood, television, radio and all these fine mediums that had the fine golden statues lad so far behind, how they take a look about controversial issues as if they were some new thing that they finally decided to talk about.
Sorry folks, Hollywood is patting itself on the back because now theyre finally talking about black issues, where is Stanley discussed them when he made black panther. The momentum gained by proving that yes black characters can sell, that they can be the superheroes, especially when you let a black director, a black star, and have a black villain was an example of how I see that Stanley planted made a difference in Hollywood. Yes Hollywood has been happy to make pictures with black people, but not ones where you put them behind the directors chair and not ones where they got to actually confront white people, and win. The exceptions are documentaries of Martin Luther King where the history is definitely told through the lens.
But as far as what passes for great movies take a picture like the help where some very cute rich person of the social stature gets be praised just because she exposes the fact that the fellow people in her class like to treat black people like crap. By the way, that character was played by Emma Stone, who also played a marble character, and came close to winning an Oscar for playing a white girl who played black music in Lala land and which was announced as the Oscar-winner even though it went to a movie made by a black person.
Honestly you can see where the pattern of other minorities getting power and respect because they played on marble character can show. Certainly in McAllen, respected Shakespearean actor for years, did not really have the power to be accepted as a homosexual until he made two movies that Im sure people would laugh at, until he played the wizard in Lord of the rings, and until he played magneto. The idea of playing someone that was controversial was a seed that Stanley planted, that others were able to work on. Stanley, because he was not writing for the establishment that wanted its guaranteed Oscar-winner movies was able to make characters that were gray, that were not the obvious good or bad guy and that is something that our era was able to use.
And now lets take economics, right now people like Musk, gates, or insert tech billionaire here are considered Gods and we shower them of glory. Now lets take the move that started Marvel cinematic empire, Iron Man, where you have a very very flawed tech genius, who has to deal with alcoholism, and the fact that this technology is causing a lot of problems. The difference between Tony Stark and Bill Gates is that, unlike Bill Gates, unlike Zuckerberg, musk, Starkey is actually trying to make sure that his technological creations do not become a monster, and despite sincere efforts, he very often fails. And to that that the governments and corporations who work behind the scenes are doing their best to make sure that they get to do as much damage as possible
And since were going to politics here, lets talk about Capt. America, where shield is a very potent metaphor for what the CIA and FBI did. Yes I know Trump is attacking those people foretold legitimate reasons, but there was a time where the CIA and FBI generally did hurt people, and they did not have Capt. America Ray to go ahead and attack them. Take a look at Capt. America was someone who was a World War II propaganda hero all the sudden especially in the last avengers movie actually fighting the very military-industrial complex that created him.
Now am I saying that all these works are high part? Honestly that will be judged by the future. And before many of you recall your nose, lets pay attention to a certain banal form of entertainment or a bunch of female impersonators would have vegetables thrown at them for the benefit of the dirty London rabble, at a place called glue Peter were man called William Shakespeare, who like Stanley did not really originate his characters but he developed the hell out of them, we to his trade. Now if we were in Elizabethan England, and we were told that the person whose words be remembered would not be somebody in court like Ben Johnson, not someone like Christopher Marlowe, but that William Shakespeare guy that played at the Globe theater. Lets face it we would believe it. But regardless of if Stanley does become some great author of our age, the fact is he did pave the way for people to talk about controversial subjects that the mainstream of literature could not and would not tackle because they are afraid of losing their very privileged position. Yes this is very much like how outlets like this very webpage became famous, because we know that the mainstream talking heads are not able to talk about the controversial issues, or at least reach that far beyond the low hanging fruit.
PS: if a person making this point was some professor, some literary figure, or they pointed out my last reply, someone that it tried different things and had become successful at them, I might not be as nasty. Hack the offers of South Park won a Tony for a musical. Lets be honest though, Bill Maher has literally been doing the same act for 20 years, he pretends to be controversial, when really he is just spouting off a bunch of Archie Bunker nonsense in a droll matter. As much is he really would hate to admit it he is very much a spiritual brother of our current president. Both of them serve a controversy as a means to distract people and hide the fact that they really do not have anything new to say about issues. Furthermore, while they both hint that there really not a bunch of bigots. They sure like coming after the women in Metoo, and they flirt with saying the and word. Both to sell this whole idea that if those lefties would just shut up and listen and use some common sense that maybe things would get better. In other words both themselves lazy thoughts. And if Mr. Maher wants to go ahead and do that for living than that is his business. Not everyone gets to grow up to be John Stuart.
But if you go ahead and attack people, especially people that have a much more proven track record you, do not go ahead and wind when people stop caring about you. No I did not say he chew, I said when people stop caring about you, because right now in a war of culture. For we need to reach for masses, and we need to support the fringe, some of us will take Stanley over Mr. Maher and me day of the week. That is because among other things, Mr. Maher, with his irony that is so banal it might as well be sentimentality, as a representative of an stupid culture.
Hekate
(90,657 posts)Hes the kind of person who feels the need to belittle other people or ideas in order to feel superior.
Coventina
(27,107 posts)He's just smart enough to realize that he's above average, and therefore thinks he's a genius.
And, super insecure, which is why he has to deride anyone who doesn't agree with him as stupid.
He's a pathetic little man.