The debate about impeachment is over. It's now a matter of survival.

[shockey80]

Trump must be removed from office because of national security issues as soon as possible. Trump has become a major national security threat. He has become a threat to the world. We are in great danger. The number one duty of congress is to protect the American people. If we do not impeach Trump and instead wait two years to vote him out it may be too late. There is also a chance he could win in two years.

Trump is covering up a murder. He is lying to the American people about the murder. That in it self is an impeachable offense. It is proof Trump is not sane and he is capable of doing anything. Not impeaching him would be national suicide.

When Mueller brings forth proof of impeachable offenses the democrats in the house can add to it. They must bring forth articles of impeachment and make their case to the American people. They cannot worry about what the senate is going to do, they cannot worry about 67 votes. They just have to do their job. Protect the American people. The Republicans in the senate will be on trial with the American people as judge. If they refuse to impeach it will be at their own peril.

Trump has disrupted the world order. He has disrupted the economic order. He has ignited a fascist movement, a white nationalist movement. He has damaged the free press, the justice system. He is a madman.

All the ingredients are in place, except for one, which could lead to world chaos. A world wide economic downturn, If that were to happen at this moment in time, we could pay with our blood , the blood of our children.

A world wide economic downturn would help fascism spread. Nationalism, racism would spread. All the ingredients for an economic downturn have been put into place. Corruption, deregulation, dumb fucking tax cuts, a giant wealth divide, trade wars.

Impeaching Trump is now a matter of survival. Comparing the impeachment of Trump to the impeachment of Clinton is insane.

As I am writing this MSNBC is talking about Ivankas e-mails. Are you fucking kidding me, We better wake the fuck up before it's too late.

For the rest of my life I will remember the first thoughts that came to my mind when Trump was elected, world chaos. That thought did not come to mind because I have ESP or a special gift of insight. It came to mind because it was self evident.

[Garrett78]

1. Well said. Trump is a clear and present danger. He must be removed ASAP.

[bearsfootball516]

2. You say it's a matter of survival, but unless the Senate convicts, it won't really matter either way

I'm not saying they shouldn't impeach, but the most likely scenario is that he's impeached in the House, fails in the Senate and nothing changes.

[Bfd]

5. Unfortunate truth & the consequence of how one votes.

The only thing that may turn the Senate against Trump & vote to impeach will be in Mueller's findings.

When Senators are named as having any involvement in protecting Trump over the past 2 years, then will the Senate succumb to the fate of Trump.
When they have nothing left to lose & their own head is on the block.


That is the only way I see Trump's impeachment possible.
Until those GOP Senator's names are outed, the House is better off holding back & allow Mueller to provide needed support for the case to impeach.

Then, do it.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

18. BUT

The world gets to unmask the russian and allll the lies. That in itself will help enormously bc the main thing repubs say about the red one is, there's no collusion bc nothings been brought out. Sunshine and facts are what we need to save the free press if nothing else. (If I hear fake again...i swear to gods...ugh) That takes care of a bunch of folks sitting on the fence who no longer will have that defense. Not doing it bc something MIGHT stop it, is'nt how the nation of laws works. I hear what you're saying but the idea of not trying for justice bc we THINK we know what will happen, seems a fools errand, for the whole world. It's time. I agree w the OP.

[erronis]

26. I want each senator that votes to keep this monstrosity in office to go on record

And that record can be used to get rid of his/her sorry ass.

There is some small chance that some of the repuglcons will actually find truth and honor and help supply the two-thirds needed. Without asking (demanding) we definitely don't stand a chance.

[Stargazer09]

70. Or worse...

He uses the lack of conviction by the Senate as proof that he’s “innocent,” which boosts his standing and helps him get re-elected.

[shockey80]

3. Like I said, we can't worry about the senate.

When they present articles of impeachable, which will be the most severe articles of impeachment in our history, things will change.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

20. +1

[SusanaMontana41]

87. Agree.

When the sh*t hits the fan, we’ll see how committed Trumpublicans are to Trumpf.

[calimary]

92. History. Yes. Let trump go into the history books with that big blot on his record.

That asterisk by his name. For all of history. Even just a cursory glance at history books there it’ll be, and one of the main things to remember him for. Impeached!

Look at Bill Clinton. It doesn’t change anything that the Senate didn’t vote to convict. All that’s memorable is - “Impeached.” Hell, some people think Nixon was impeached, too. He wasn’t. He was on the way there but resigned before it could happen, to avoid that particular disgrace.

I can’t help but suspect, though, that trump will try to sneak away to avoid facing the consequences. I can even visualize it (great fun, too, btw!). In the dark of night. Under the cover of darkness. Morning will come. Somebody will notice he’s not there. Somebody in the White House household staff will notice that they can’t find him. Seriously. Where’s trump - is he downstairs somewhere? He’s not in the Oval - I just checked. Not in the bathroom or back room. Called upstairs to the Residence. Nobody’s answering. Anybody seen him? Anybody seen Melania? She isn’t picking up either...

And likewise when it occurs to somebody that they haven’t seen Ivanka or Jared for a couple of days either...

And it’ll eventually leak out - he blew this joint. Snuck outta town - either to Moscow or Riyadh or some such. Relocated. Disappeared. In some ultra fancy exclusive luxury compound somewhere fairly unaccessible. Given heavy protection by his pal Vlad or his “fellow king” in Saudi Arabia. Almost like living in a golden (or gold-tone) prison as it’ll turn out. It’s not like he’d be able to go anywhere or stroll around, freely, out in public. There may be international warrants for his arrest by then. Because a large segment of the nation, and maybe also the world population too, expects him to be forced to face charges.

Just some fantasizing.

[MarvinGardens]

97. I keep fantasizing that he will take a trip to Russia.

And there, he will decide that it is in his best interest to remain. His entourage, save perhaps for Melania and some of his kids, will return without him. His cabinet will have no choice but to remove him temporarily until we figure out what to do. Then, he's impeached and removed for dereliction of duty, which no one can argue at that point. That's my fantasy.

[shockey80]

4. What scares me is the apathy, the ignorance, the lack of urgency from the people.

Articles of impeachment may be the only thing that can wake the people out of their madness.

[VOX]

101. This is what gets to me. Is everyone just sitting around, killing time on their phones?

Are they too enamored with "documenting" their everydayness with selfies and posts on social media? Are they remaining ignorant due to information overload? Don't they give a damn?

One doesn't have to be a genius to comprehend a clear and present danger. And yet.

[FreepFryer]

6. Protecting the rule of law, and our democratic republic, demands a lawful and thoughtful process. nt

[dalton99a]

7. American democracy has been subverted and its foundations shaken

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/11/mueller-investigation-and-blue-house-could-doom-trump/576373/
Mueller and a Blue House Could Bring Down Trump
But the president’s supporters won’t make it easy.
Nov 23, 2018

...

Whatever risks the Mueller investigation does pose for the president, history suggests that they will be magnified by a Democrat-controlled House. Although the Watergate Special Prosecution Force never indicted Nixon, its findings were transmitted to the House via a grand-jury report that provided much of the basis for the Judiciary Committee’s articles of impeachment.

In one respect, Trump’s position may now be even more precarious than Nixon’s. As former White House Counsel John Dean recalls, Nixon “was forced to quit not because he had lost his support on Capitol Hill, but because he had lost his support at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue,” leaving him defenseless against Congress. Leaks from inside the White House suggest that Trump already does not enjoy the unqualified confidence of officials in his own administration.

The other side of the coin is that Trump’s base of popular support amongst Republicans may prove more resilient than Nixon’s. Much has changed since the 1970s. All three national television networks carried the Watergate hearings, and there was, by today’s standards, a certain uniformity in their coverage. The same cannot be said of the age of cable TV and the internet. While CNN will run with the Watergate 2.0 narrative, Fox News surely will not. For every website denouncing Trump for high crimes and misdemeanors, there will be another accusing the Democrats of a witch hunt.

Finally, there is the very different political calculus in the present-day Senate. For Mitch McConnell, Donald Trump is a means not just to GOP control of the upper house, but also to conservative dominance of the Supreme Court and the judiciary more generally. It is hard to see what more it would take to persuade McConnell and his colleagues to abandon this president, considering how many damaging aspects of his personality and record are already in the public domain.

Trump has been likened to Nixon from the beginning of his presidency. Now the real test begins. Will the combination of Mueller and a blue House doom him? Or have Washington and America changed so much that a president can withstand repeated allegations that, on his watch, American democracy “has been subverted and its foundations shaken”?

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

21. +1+1

[treestar]

72. But then Pence wouldn't be much worse

from McConnell's view and the House Republicans view, I don't see why they have onto the Orange Maniac. Pence might even be better for them.

[stopwastingmymoney]

89. Agreed, I've long thought that curious as well

Pence would be just fine for McConnell's judicial agenda so there must be another reason they continue to support Trump.

Perhaps because they're all in on the crime spree

[Eyeball_Kid]

90. Yep. The GOP leadership is going on a ride to RICO land.

[MarvinGardens]

98. It is worth noting that chief justice John Roberts would preside over any impeachment trial.

Not Mitch McConnell.

[shockey80]

8. Bottom line, waiting to vote Trump out may be too late.

The danger is real. He is a madman.

[lancelyons]

9. As long as fox news is on the air

As long as Fox News is still on the air pushing it’s fake conspiratorial hate propaganda nothing will really change. Fox News has created hundreds of thousands of trumps. the group that voted for Trump will still be out there and will still be wanting the same kinds of candidates

[shockey80]

10. Fuck Fox and Fuck the Trump voters.

Do you want to see war break out around the world? Do you want to see fascism spread around the world. Do you want to live though an economic crisis. That's what we are facing. It could happen.

[defacto7]

16. I don't think the poster said that.

But just saying fuck you to rw media and trump voters will get nowhere. Or are you suggesting a coup?
We have to face all fronts in this war. That includes the media that feeds rw propaganda.

[erronis]

30. I think even fux can be persuaded to change its tune.

There have been a few (very few) times recently where they have been critical of dump and his coterie. I also think continued pressure on the the advertisers will leave a mark altho fux is well-funded by the plutocrats. Even the mercers, kochs, murdochs don't like to squander money on a lost cause.

[Power 2 the People]

94. +1

[shockey80]

11. I believe I understand how Georg Elser felt.

He saw the madness, he saw the threat, he saw what was coming. He saw the people slowly descending into madness. He saw the people ignoring what was happening.

[erronis]

33. Thanks for the mention of one of those who tried to overthrow the prior SHitler.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Elser
A good account of his life is given. Apparently he was quite a ladies man.

[NoMoreRepugs]

12. Economic chaos is easily created by tRumpy.

If he blows up his next economic summit with Xi the market will react violently. Oil is ready to break $50, that hurts Putin, the Saudis and Big Oil.... they certainly will react.

I agree Scockey80.... we are in some really deep shit.

[OMGWTF]

22. Twitler is already saying the economic downturn is because the Ds won the House.

Yesterday he said he is most thankful for his great leadership. OMG! WTF?

[SWBTATTReg]

41. And rump is full of lies. Who believes him anymore? Certainly not the majority of the ...

country. Also, rump keeps harping on himself, endlessly, and people are getting sick and tired of him, and his crap. All nonsense and full of hot air.

[CloudWatcher]

13. Has anyone noticed that Wall Street isn't happy?

Don't worry about the Senate convicting. Wall Street has finally gotten scared and it really is due to Trump. By the time it comes up for a vote, the GOP will have discovered all sorts of reasons to cross the aisle and remove him from power.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

23. This

[srobertss]

38. I find myself wishing for an economic downturn...

...which is wishing for suffering. But I’m afraid that is the only thing that might erode his base. And I don’t think the Senate will convict until the approval rating drops substantially. I also hold out hope that there will be proof that he’s not a billionaire, that it’s a shell game. That could twist the base around.

If I’m remembering correctly, Nixon probably wouldn’t have resigned or been convicted if the tapes hadn’t been released. Republicans were still backing him strongly until then. It was just his word against Deans until then.

[cab67]

14. with all respect, we do have to worry about the Senate.

The Republican effort to impeach Clinton backfired on them very badly. Clinton won, and as a result, his stature improved.

That's my biggest concern - the House would impeach the president. It would go to the Senate. It would lose. Trump would then claim victory, and his chances of winning in 2020 would greatly improve.

Unless the Senate is behind the effort, it's going to be branded as overreach on the part of the Democrats and used against them, with some success.

I really hope the investigations - on the part of Mueller, on the part of the House subcommittees, on the part of whatever's left of independent journalism - are able to create an environment in which the Senate can go along with it. But if they can't, impeachment wouldn't just be a waste of time - it would (very likely) to blow back on us and make things worse.

[shockey80]

24. Like I said, you cannot compare this with The Clinton impeachment. That's insane.

[True Blue American]

42. Clinton was doing good things for the economy.

Trump is a disaster .

[reACTIONary]

63. Exactly what would you have him impeached for? Clinton....

.... was impeached for a specific criminal charge - purgery. Nixon's threatened impeachment was based on hard incontrovertible evidence, the tapes.

Without solid evidence of an indictable offense there won't be articles of impeachment and if there were there wouldn't be a conviction. And without a conviction he would gain political capital as did Clinton.

You can't remove the president simply because you dislike his foreign policy.

[Jarqui]

15. There are four ways for a presidency to end

1. They pass away in office
2. They are impeached
3. They are removed via Article 25
4, Their term ends and they are not reelected

On 1: We have no control Trump's health

On 2: The GOP controlled senate assures impeachment is not likely at this moment in time. That might change after Mueller does his thing. But we have no control over that. All we can do is focus our efforts on 2020 or pressuring after Mueller does his thing.

On 3: It hasn't happened and there are no signs it is in the works after Rosenstein backpeddled
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

If within 21 days the Senate and the House determine, each by a two-thirds vote, that the president is incapacitated, then the vice president continues as acting president. If either the Senate or the House holds a vote on the question which falls short of the two-thirds requirement, or the 21 days pass without both votes having taken place, then the president resumes his powers and duties.[11][12]

Section 4's requirements for the vice president to remain acting president indefinitely – a declaration by the vice president together with a majority of the principal officers or other body, then a two-thirds vote in the House and a two-thirds vote in the Senate – contrasts with the Constitution's procedure for removal of the president from office for "high crimes and misdemeanors" – a majority of the House (Article I, Section 2, Clause 5) followed by two-thirds of the Senate (Article I, Section 3, Clause 6).

The bar on achieving #3 is even higher than impeachment - you need a majority of the cabinet, 2/3rds of the Senate and 2/3rds of the House.

With the level of corruption and partisanship we are seeing, this is not going to happen unless we have impeachment on the table with a very strong case by Mueller that the GOP significantly accepts.

With all three of those options, even if they came about, there is a good chance Pence would take over so the impact is limited.

You have to accept that Trump did not get into office by himself. He remains in office because the GOP want him to be there. The whole thing stinks and is corrupt. But the constitution and circumstances do not allow us to do much about it any time soon. He is somewhat contained by the Democrats controlling the House.

Until Mueller reports, I'd focus on protecting Mueller and #4. #4 including fighting money in politics, fighting gerrymandering, fighting voter suppression, fighting for the integrity of the voting process, etc.

[erronis]

35. Good analysis of four ways to remove dump. But we still need to clean out the traitors in congress.

We should pursue impeachment in the House and get those in the House and Senate that vote against impeachment on the record. McConnell comes up for reelection in 2020. With a net worth of $22MM (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitch_McConnell) he may not want his senate salary anymore.

[True Blue American]

44. Mitch already said he thought about retiring before the last

Election. He will not run again. He has never won by a big margin.

[Jarqui]

57. They used the House/Congress to try to destroy Hillary with Benghazi and the emails

There is zero doubt they did significant damage to her candidacy. It helped pave the way for Trump.

While the Democrats control the House, to me, the shoe is on the other foot and they should go after whoever. The difference is that Hillary was not an evil monster with Benghazi or her emails. I think there has been quite a bit of questionable/sinister/illegal/unethical activity with McConnell, Ryan, etc - beyond the Trump family and admin. They should go after that and make it a part of their election platform for 2020.

There may be some vulnerable Senators or Representatives there - beyond the Trump family & admin.

As John Adams said "Facts are stubborn things". Let's go get the facts. The combination of that along with Mueller's effort should be very devastating by 2020.

[erronis]

60. And some "democrats" may get caught up in trying to protect their asseTs.

While I don't think group-think is desirable, it will be instructive to find out which members will feel compelled to protect the "presidency, the dignity, the tradition, etc." I wouldn't be surprised to find a few Democrats (blue dog?) to try to reframe this, let alone battle it.

Facts are wonderful. But many people find them threatening. I'd rather die by fact than live by falsehood and innuendo.

[Jarqui]

64. That is a good point

We're seeing a bit of that in the leadership question for speaker - some threatening to side with the GOP which I find unconscionable.
Not the first time we've seen blue dogs confound us.

I doubt they can do much to stop gathering some key facts though. For example, when Trump's financial info gets out, and I think it will, there are a bunch of dominoes that are going to topple over from that. Mueller may well mark time for some of that (or maybe he has bunches of it already)

Few around here care for FOX News. But even FOX News gets titillated by scandal that drives their ratings so they will want to know some dirt too. They'll spin it differently but it will get out just the same.

Questions like "what are you hiding?" or "why should you decline to reveal this info if you are innocent?" do no go away easily. Failing to respond builds a presumption of guilt in the media.

Hauling various folks in to testify - even if they refuse to answer - makes them look guilty. Not good for garnering votes.

As such, I think this might be the most important session for Democrats in the House in my lifetime.

The GOP are eventually going to lose. Demographics tell us that. They're clinging to power anyway they can. This session has an opportunity to get us closer to ending their grip on power. I look forward to their fight to get the stubborn facts and I think the media will embrace it.

[PoliticAverse]

56. 5 - You left out resignation. n/t

[Jarqui]

59. Fair point.

Though I really doubt that is a realistic option Trump would consider unless #2 or #3 look like they will happen - which is what persuaded Nixon.

He's too much of a narcissist. He's only going to leave if he is forced out and has no real choice.

[PoliticAverse]

68. I don't know - "resigning in a huff" and blaming someone else would be very Trumpian. n/t

[Jarqui]

69. I can see him dropping out for 2020 something like that

- using a bogus, blaming excuse

But I cannot see him resigning unless he has to because the Oval Office is providing him with so much legal protection. A whole bunch of protection falls away if he resigns. He can't get out of subpoenas the same way any longer. Executive privilege goes away. A layer of lawyers - White House Counsel goes away. The GOP won't give a crap about him unless he's president, etc. And he can use the power of the office for pardons or deals or deeds to protect himself.

He's all about himself.

[PoliticAverse]

74. Well...

If he resigns "in a huff" I'd anticipate it'd likely be with an expected pardon.

Executive privilege doesn't go away when you are no longer President. It still protects much of what happened when you were in office once one is out of office (even for underlings in the executive branch).

Will there really be that much interest in pursuing Trump once he's no longer president?

[Jarqui]

76. Executive privilege does go away when one is no longer President.

What they do after they are no longer president no longer has that coverage. While in office, with executive privilege, one can do things to protect themselves they could not otherwise do if they have already resigned.

Part of his exposure is what he did before he was president. He's been using his position if office to shield himself from that.

As one who protested Nixon, like many others, I sure was ticked off with his pardon. If Trump has to resign in disgrace due to impending impeachment, there will be plenty who will want him brought to justice.

[Haggis for Breakfast]

86. Also left out is assassination.

Not that I think the Secret Service is incompetent, but in desperate times, unstable people will resort to desperate measures.

Loose, casual talk has a habit of magnifying.

[Polybius]

58. How could you leave out #5?

Resignation, while extremely unlikely, is more possible than #3 since it happened in 1974.

[Jarqui]

61. It happened because Nixon was going to get impeached

and the GOP were going to back it.

I simply do not see Trump tweeting "I have been a bad president so I'm resigning"

[Polybius]

62. Me neither, but it shouldn't be left out

Since it's still possible and more likely than 25th, and all possibilities were listed.

Getting back to Nixon, I always wondered what the Senate conviction vote would have looked like. Did they have the 67 votes?

[Jarqui]

65. Yes

In 1974, Goldwater and Rhodes told Nixon he was doomed
https://www.azcentral.com/story/azdc/2014/08/03/goldwater-rhodes-nixon-resignation/13497493/

On Aug. 7, 1974, U.S. Sen. Barry Goldwater, R-Ariz., U.S. House Minority Leader John Rhodes, R-Ariz., and U.S. Senate Minority Leader Hugh Scott, R-Pa., made it clear to the embattled Nixon that he faced all-but-certain impeachment, conviction and removal from office in connection with the Watergate scandal.

Nixon announced his resignation the next evening, effective at noon on Aug 9, 1974.

In my opinion, that is the only way Trump would resign.
In fact, like Nixon, in theory, it should be the most likely path.
But the essence of it was the president was going to be impeached.

The difference today is the GOP back then were more honorable and country first. Part of the reason for that was the country was more idealistic and more concerned with having a president who is not a crook.

The Republicans of 2018 are in on this in my opinion. Their support is being lied to by conservative media so they're not going to get the straight goods. Public support for impeachment will not be as great, As such, the GOP will not back his impeachment. The corruption is too broad and deep. The desperation to keep power at all costs is too great.

The Mueller investigation might change that if it sees the light of day. Something the Democrats come up with during their investigations could shift the tide. But I'm very doubtful of that. The GOP will probably run out the clock, toss Trump aside for 2020 and carry on.

[erronis]

66. It would have been very hard for the Senate not to have voted for impeachment.

There would have been a lot of hair-wrenching and behind-the-scenes moaning but the trajectory for the country and politics at that time was for removal.

However just my speculation since I was only in my 20's during altho I was rather attuned to these events.

[green917]

17. absolutely right!

"you don't fight the fights you can win, you fight the fights that need fighting!" -AJ Mcanerny

[bitterross]

25. That's just so laughable.

That's a great sentiment if you're in a movie or trying to motivate the football team.

If you're on the battlefield, as we are, it's not a very good strategy to squander your resources by throwing them away on battles you cannot win. That's how you lose the war.

[bitterross]

19. I agree with most of your points, but not your conclusion.

Trump is an accessory after the fact to murder.
Trump is a national security issue.
Trump has further ignited a fascist, nationalist movement.

Where I have to disagree is "we cannot worry about the Senate." The Republicans have proven over and over again they don't care about what popular opinion is. If they cared, Kavanaugh would not be an Associate Justice. The Republicans have proven they fear Trump's base far more than they fear the rest of the electorate. They have reason for this. They've gerrymandered and done all sorts of voter suppression in so many places the only voters left that might help them win are the base of Trump supporters - his cult.

If we cannot get a conviction in the Senate then it is a bad idea to impeach. It will be like the Clinton impeachment. Lots and lots of show, but no go. It also made Clinton more popular because people thought he was wronged in the process. You and I know that Trump is guilty of a lot and should be impeached, convicted and removed. But, he still is a master of marketing. His cult will believe all the way through that he is innocent and he has been wronged. The Senators running for re-election in red districts won't take the chance of losing by voting to convict.

I truly, sincerely believe there is NOTHING - NOTHING, no evidence that can be presented that will be enough to change enough of his cult members minds that Senators will risk voting to convict and risk losing re-election.

I believe the better strategy is to allow the house to investigate. Immediately when they take control and then a big push right before the 2020 elections.

[shockey80]

27. The Senate is not like the house.

Senators can lose their seat even in red states. Look at Alabama. The house must impeach. The American people will see how severe the charges are. This is not about lying about a fucking blowjob. This is about being a fucking traitor. Impeach and let the people decide their fate.

[erronis]

36. +1.

[pnwmom]

28. Impeachment alone will accomplish nothing. How do you think

we can -- at this point, based on what we know now -- get Trump TRIED and CONVICTED in the Senate? Mitch McConnell would have to agree to a trial, and 2/3 of the Senate would have to convict.

[shockey80]

29. You don't know that.

[pnwmom]

39. Yes, I do. What is incorrect about what I said? If he is impeached,

but not convicted, he will still be in office.

[shockey80]

43. Impeachment would remove a madman from the Whitehouse.

You don't know if he will be convicted or not by the senate. The people must decide.

[pnwmom]

45. NO, IT WOULDN'T. Bill Clinton was impeached. Was he removed from the WH?

No, he wasn't -- because he wasn't convicted in the Senate. And he emerged from the failed impeachment more popular than ever.

Only a trial in the Senate and conviction by 2/3 of the Senate would remove him from the WH.

[cstanleytech]

48. As pnwmom has explained removing a President is a two step process and if the Senate

does not get on board (which is unlikely with Trump as long as he obeys and does what the Senate Repugnants tell him to do) then a President will remain regardless of what the House says.

[Tarheel_Dem]

73. I'm sorry, but that's just constitutionally wrong. Only after Senate conviction would he be "removed

from office".

[Eliot Rosewater]

31. And yet, as accurate as you are, if he is removed FIFTY MILLION assholes will

be unhappy their fuhrer was dealt with by justice.

[Nitram]

32. We will reserve impeachment for the moment Trump tries to do something that would irreparably harm

the nation. It is a last resort, and will only succeed in the Senate if the entire nation is outraged/frightened/shocked by something he has tried to do. Until then we will incapacitate him with investigations and legislative checks and balances.

[shockey80]

37. Covering up a murder is not enough?

[Nitram]

40. Ask the Senate.

[PufPuf23]

34. The House does its job to impeach Trump ASAP.

The Senate may not convict with a GOP majority.

One would hope that enough GOP Senators vote against Trump for a conviction. Many think the Senatre conviction is not possible. But Trump is so off the rails that any Senator that sticks with Trump is looking out for what is best for the USA and ifgnoring depraved criminality.

May the Mulleur Report give GOP Senators no choice but to oust Trump. One item is that evangelicals may prefer Pence as POTUS and convict. I viewed Pence as a posion pill to block a Trump impeachment. But Pence would last only two years and subject to imeachment too.

Worry much with Trump economic collapse, loss of allies, and war(s). Not to mention that there will be more rather than less civil strife as the Trump infection is excized.

[pnwmom]

49. The first obstacle would be Mitch McConnell. He would have to agree

to having a trial in the first place.

Can you see that happening anytime soon?

[PufPuf23]

53. McConnell will not cooperate unless cornered.

Put pressure on McConnell, Mitch should go regardless.

[pnwmom]

55. The Democrats don't get to pick when McConnell goes. n/t

[MarvinGardens]

99. It is worth noting that chief justice John Roberts would preside over an impeachment trial.

Not Mitch McConnell. Just as William Rehnquist presided over Bill Clinton's impeachment trial.

[pnwmom]

100. You are right about who presides. But I think McConnell has enough control

of his members that 1/3 of them wouldn't be voting to impeach Trump -- not based on what we know now.

[cstanleytech]

46. I want him out of office as well however there is almost no chance in hell that enough Senate

Repugnants would support it so we are better off focusing on solidifying more seats in the House and Senate in the 2020 elections and hopefully the Presidency as well.
After all Trump and those in his administration can still be prosecuted for any crimes that they may have committed.

[shockey80]

51. Once again, you don't know what will happen in the senate.

You are assuming the senate will not convict. You can't think that way. These will be the most serious crimes ever presented against a president in our history. This is not about a blowjob. The people must decide.

[cstanleytech]

75. Wont work. The Repugnants would simply play act it but they would simply

hold a number of secret meetings to decide which of them will vote to convict him and they will arrange it so that the threshold number needed will not be reached.
That way they can keep him in office but pretend to moral and ethical so as to fool as many morons in this country as they can to keep voting for them.

[cwydro]

47. Unfortunately, it's very unlikely to occur.

Not going to happen.

[Power 2 the People]

96. Correct. We didn't impeach Bush and Cheney for war crimes

Our House leadership will be the same as it was in 2009. If they didn't impeach for war crimes and lying about WMD they will not impeach Trump.

We've already been told:

On CNN's 'State of the Union' on Sunday, Rep. Nancy Pelosi said that impeaching President Trump "is not someplace that I think we should go." She added that many on the left were upset at her for not impeaching President Bush in the wake of the Iraq War. "What could be worse than that?" she asked.

Republicans are never held to account for their crimes.

[BamaRefugee]

50. LET IT GO TO THE SENATE! There are gonna be Republican Senators facing re-election in 2 years who

just MIGHT feel enough pressure from the voters in their states to vote in favor of impeachment.
If "Impeachment is off the table" AGAIN, we will never know.
JUST DO IT.

[not_the_one]

52. indictments

We need actual indictments, not a report sent to Congress that will result in nothing. Impeachment will do nothing but let us crow victory, while the republicans will continue as usual.

Mueller needs to legally establish that NO ONE is above the law, then, along with the SDNY, indict turdface, his guilty spawn, and every single enabler in the republican party, and use RICO to seize all the assets of turdface and family.

It needs to be done in such a way that Pence goes down at the same time, and everything culminates in January, when Pelosi is in line of succession.

Then, hopefully, if the guilty know they may end up in jail, at least the Trump private plane will be full of penniless turds, heading to Saudi Arabia.

I know, it's a pipe dream, but otherwise all we are going to get is another Fitzmas.

The question is, although the Democrats have mastered the art of seizing failure out of victory, maybe this time they will not fight amongst themselves, trying to prove how we are so goddamn independent, and do what is necessary to deal with this constitutional crisis.

That includes dealing with suppression and gerrymandering. If those two aren't addressed, we will get nothing but more of the same. As long as they get away with it, they will continue the same tactics that have worked.

[PoliticAverse]

54. "The debate about impeachment is over." - really, the House will be impeaching Trump in January? n/t

[workinclasszero]

67. One question

Do you really think the GOP controlled Senate will convict Trump?

I go back and forth on the impeachment issue myself but IMO the Senate will never convict Trump ever for anything.

[treestar]

71. That is a good argument

If the Senate lets him off, those Senators will have to deal with their votes. It might not be so easy for them. Some of them may have a conscience.

[Persondem]

77. Had Clinton been elected the chaos may have been averted since the greatest

control rod in the whole nuclear world is a stable, well functioning, democratic USA. With trump's 4 years of fertilizing the seeds of world chaos, the future will depend on the 2020 election as we rapidly approach the precipice of a new dark age.

For the rest of my life I will remember the first thoughts that came to my mind when Trump was elected, world chaos. That thought did not come to mind because I have ESP or a special gift of insight. It came to mind because it was self evident.

Me too.

Well said.

(BTW - If chaos does reign, the new dark age will kick off sometime in the early 2030's. Place your bets.)

[amywalk]

78. Remember what the villains were called

From the tv show, Maxwell Smart? Kaos. You were right to worry. We have to hold people accountable for their treasonous crimes.

[LiberalFighter]

79. I believe that events are converging that will force impeachment.

Democrats need to get themselves ready when Mueller presents his report. If Mueller is prevented from presenting it then the House needs to call him before the committees and present the report that way.

Every day they will need to get media coverage that focuses on one but not more than two issues. As to why he should be impeached and have a well spoken response to any Republican that argues against it. Maybe the Democrats should focus on one Republican Senator that opposes impeachment and make that person the target for calls and letters from their state. Pressure will need to be applied to the Republican Senators. House Democrats will also need to make the case in their respective states with local newspapers and tv.

[MFM008]

80. Shockey80

You have really nailed it.
Then built a house with those nails....
He is a clear and present danger.

[Tarheel_Dem]

81. This obsession with impeachment will backfire. Clinton was impeached and only gained in popularity.

Independents, who actually decide elections, hate overturning the vote of the people by impeachment. What we have to do is win at the ballot box. I don't understand the rush to circumvent the Mueller investigation with talk of impeachment. Dems were elected, not only as a rebuke to Trump, but to protect & improve healthcare; to stop the pillaging of our environment; and to be a check on executive overreach. Impeachment was not a top concern. Democrats will pay a heavy price if they don't do what they were sent to do.

[Garrett78]

95. One lied about an affair. The other is trying to turn the world to ashes.

[byronius]

82. Well said.

He's a Black Swan event, and most people don't understand that.

[DFW]

83. Not saying impeachment shouldn't be weighed

But we need to keep in mind that we will find a pill that cures cancer and costs fifty cents before we find twenty Republican Senators that will vote to remove Trump from office (and Pence after we're done).

[Grasswire2]

84. And he's going to let Saudi Arabia go nuclear. nt

[Prof.Higgins]

85. So, evangelical fanatic Prez Pence triggering his Endtimes Rapture is a wise move? n/t

[customerserviceguy]

88. So then

we get Pence? And in comparison, he looks almost like a normal person?

If we run ANYONE against Trump, we are bound to win this next time around. I can't necessarily say that if we're up against Pence. And if he takes over for Trump at any time after January 20, 2019, he is allowed under the Constitution to have two more terms.

No thanks.

[elocs]

91. Reality check: Impeachment does not remove a president from office,

just ask Bill Clinton, and Trump will never be removed as president by the impeachment process or even the 25th Amendment either.
In hindsight, wouldn't it have been infinitely easier for those on the Left to have voted, at least in the battleground states, for the only candidate who could have stopped Trump from ever becoming president at all?

[mart48]

93. Sadly, Dems don't have the political power to remove him from office yet.

[samnsara]

102. wheres the Cigarette Man When you need him?