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Tue Nov 27, 2018, 11:07 AM

One GM Plant Closing in the US Means Very Little to the Company

Here is a list of other GM plants that are currently open and running around the world:

6th of October City, Egypt
Batilly, France
Bogotá, Colombia
CAMI Automotive, Canada
Changwon, Gyeongsang, S. Korea
Bupyeong-gu, Incheon, S. Korea
Fujisawa, Japan
Gravatai Automotive Industrial Complex, Brazil
Talegaon, India
Iwata, Japan
Kosai Assembly, Japan
Kawasaki, Japan
Magyar Suzuki Corporation, Hungary
GM-OBB, Ecuador
Oshawa Car Assembly, Canada
Oshawa Metal, Canada
Ramos Arizpe Assembly, Mexico
Rayong, Thailand
Rosario, Argentina
San Luis Potosí Assembly, Mexico
São Caetano do Sul, Brazil
São José dos Campos, Brazil
Silao Assembly, Mexico
Silao Engine, Mexico
Silao Transmission, Mexico
St. Catharines Powertrain, Canada
GM Strasbourg, France
GM-AvtoVAZ, Russia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_General_Motors_factories

Double that list to see just how many GM plants have been closed worldwide since the company's inception. Can we please stop pretending that GM operates solely in America? As much as Rump would love for GM to be a nationalist corporation, that is simply a lie.

Edit: No, I am not saying that workers losing their jobs is of no concern. What I am saying is that the GM brand is so diversified and global they are not in "trouble". This does not spell disaster for an "American" company.

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Reply One GM Plant Closing in the US Means Very Little to the Company (Original post)
ProudLib72 Nov 2018 OP
The Velveteen Ocelot Nov 2018 #1
TheBlackAdder Nov 2018 #20
ProudLib72 Nov 2018 #22
FSogol Nov 2018 #2
Javaman Nov 2018 #3
BumRushDaShow Nov 2018 #4
ProudLib72 Nov 2018 #16
BumRushDaShow Nov 2018 #18
ProudLib72 Nov 2018 #23
BumRushDaShow Nov 2018 #33
LanternWaste Nov 2018 #34
PJMcK Nov 2018 #5
ProudLib72 Nov 2018 #14
awesomerwb1 Nov 2018 #6
hexola Nov 2018 #7
RKP5637 Nov 2018 #11
WillowTree Nov 2018 #8
Tripper11 Nov 2018 #9
hexola Nov 2018 #10
Hugin Nov 2018 #12
hexola Nov 2018 #13
BumRushDaShow Nov 2018 #19
Recursion Nov 2018 #26
kwassa Nov 2018 #30
duforsure Nov 2018 #15
brush Nov 2018 #17
ProudLib72 Nov 2018 #25
newblewtoo Nov 2018 #21
Demsrule86 Nov 2018 #24
ProudLib72 Nov 2018 #27
Recursion Nov 2018 #28
libdem4life Nov 2018 #31
Demsrule86 Nov 2018 #36
Recursion Nov 2018 #38
Demsrule86 Nov 2018 #40
libdem4life Nov 2018 #29
ProudLib72 Nov 2018 #32
fescuerescue Nov 2018 #35
oberliner Nov 2018 #37
dalton99a Nov 2018 #39

Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2018, 11:09 AM

1. Five are closing, and that means a hell of a lot to the people who are working there.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #1)

Tue Nov 27, 2018, 12:24 PM

20. Don't forget impacts to the parts distributors, logistics, local restaurants, gas stations, etc.

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Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #20)

Tue Nov 27, 2018, 03:15 PM

22. Yes, on NPR they said that every job at the plant equals seven in the town

Grocery story, doctor, barber, restaurants, etc.

The point here, though, is that GM can fold up a few plants in the US and open some more overseas without batting an eye. It's foolish to believe that the company itself is dependent on those plants and those workers.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2018, 11:09 AM

2. Little? Just another 10k manufacturing jobs leaving the midwest.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2018, 11:12 AM

3. uh huh, right. tell that to the people who just lost their jobs. nt

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Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2018, 11:12 AM

4. It wasn't just 1. It was at least 5.

G.M. to Idle Plants and Cut Thousands of Jobs as Sales Slow

By Neal E. Boudette

Nov. 26, 2018

General Motors announced Monday that it planned to idle five factories in North America and cut roughly 14,000 jobs in a bid to trim costs. It was a jarring reflection of the auto industry’s adjustment to changing consumer tastes and sluggish sales.

The move, which follows job reductions by Ford Motor Company, further pares the work force in a sector that President Trump had promised to bolster. Referring to G.M.’s chief executive, Mary T. Barra, he told reporters, “I spoke to her and I stressed the fact that I am not happy with what she did.”

Mr. Trump also invoked the rescue of G.M. after its bankruptcy filing almost a decade ago. “You know, the United States saved General Motors,” he told reporters, “and for her to take that company out of Ohio is not good. I think she’s going to put something back in soon.”

In addition to an assembly plant in Lordstown, Ohio, the cuts affect factories in Michigan, Maryland and the Canadian province of Ontario.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/26/business/general-motors-cutbacks.html


(one of them being in Canada)

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #4)

Tue Nov 27, 2018, 11:41 AM

16. I counted 70 plants total on the list of those currently operating

So they are closing 7% of their plants. Or, to be more accurate, they are "idling" 7% of those plants.

I get it. 14K jobs is huge. My point is that, from the perspective of the company, this is not the end of the world.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Reply #16)

Tue Nov 27, 2018, 12:08 PM

18. I think the protestations in the thread are more about the impact to the workers

vs the company itself - and other than MD, taking note of the impact on the states that tipped the scale to Drumpf - i.e., OH & MI. And it's not just the actual assemblers but all the parts plants also located on those states, that will be majorily impacted with reduced requests for all the nuts and bolts and staples and vinyl and leather and filters and glass and pumps and tubing and tires, etc.

I have only owned U.S. cars - and at least one from each of what was once known as the "Big 3" - Chrysler-Plymouth-Dodge, GM, and Ford (although at least one may have been partially assembled in Canada - which I think was a Chevy).

One of the reasons I ended up going to the crossover/SUV size was because the trunks in the sedans were getting smaller and smaller and what I needed to haul just wouldn't fit. I grew up in Ford station wagons (Country Squire and LTD) and my Mom used to have a Mercury with a huge trunk.

I suppose the "downsizing" of the sedans in general was due to the continual updates of the CAFE standards for reducing environmental impacts, but there was also an issue where the U.S. carmakers lost their innovation and recently attempted to revive some of their iconic brands (but at a premium). But one cannot ignore all the Hondas & Toyotas (although noticeably a shrinking market) and most significantly, the Nissans & Kias. The odd decisions over the years - like Ford deciding to ditch their iconic Taurus a bunch of years ago (then eventually returned) or Chevy ditching their Cavialier, etc., ended up pushing more buyers either to foreign cars or to the larger crossovers/SUVs. It's not like people aren't buying the smaller cars, but once they find a brand, they tended to stay with it, and in this case, it wasn't an American brand.

And many seemed to continually complain about reliability but over the past 10 years, I have been hearing the nightmare stories about the much-hugged Toyotas and Hondas and all their recalls - notably the airbags, and transmission issues. So really, there are few cars that are problem-less but people will often pooh-pooh problems they DID have because of loyalty vs how that problem compared to the same happening in a different brand (since parts manufacturers often sell to multiple brands).

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #18)

Tue Nov 27, 2018, 03:35 PM

23. I think after Detroit went bust, auto companies started shifting their paradigm of production

Really, it was happening in the 50s and 60s, but Detroit didn't feel the true impact until the oil crisis. The companies didn't think of themselves as "static" any longer. To be economically viable, they had to join the world market, and that meant opening overseas plants and headquarters. I was just looking into the history of Detroit's decline, and there were periodic attempts at revitalizing the city, but it was all for naught. The big three had decentralized production and were not going to move backwards.

This is the problem with the stagnant "nationalist" mindset. Those nationalists believe that these huge companies will invest in failing US factories just because they want to keep from laying off American workers. The actual tragedy of the situation is when the workers and the cities suddenly realize they were only bit players in company's global network. The Rump can rant and rave all he wants about 14K workers laid off, but it will make no difference to GM. They'll say "Sorry" and open a new facility in Mexico or S. Korea.

BTW: I've had plenty of bad experiences with Subaru, so I know what you mean by blind brand loyalty. Here in CO, Subarus are ubiquitous, and I always wonder how many people have trouble with them but just ignore it.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Reply #23)

Tue Nov 27, 2018, 05:07 PM

33. Personally

I had always wondered about all the transport costs (basically by ship) if you wanted to sell world-wide - which is why a decision was eventually made to actually build plants "locally" to serve that "local" market (in whatever country). It took awhile but the Japanese & German car companies finally started doing that here and we there.

However there is that case where they were getting to the point of idling or closing plants "local" to the U.S. making vehicles destined for the U.S. market, and then building the plants in countries that didn't have much if any minimum wage (and that local populace couldn't afford a car either), and then "importing" (but not considered "import" because the owners were U.S.-based) them back here.

And over the years, there seemed to be a chicken-egg thing going on with the sedan vs the SUV/crossover and GM was one of the biggest ones first chasing the SUV market because they felt it was "more profitable", regardless of whether people could afford them or not, and regardless of what the demand was for a "family sedan". So at that point, by dropping sedan (or even coupe) lines, they didn't give consumers any good choices for that size. And depending on how the gas prices were doing, you had consumers opting for the larger vehicles - but often because there really wasn't any other options from the American car makers (I ran into that problem). So once they limited supply of of those items, then they pointed and said - "See? Look! These crossovers/pickups/SUVs are what the consumer wants!!!!11111", which in turn further justified them dropping those smaller classes of cars because they had put themselves into a bubble universe.

And with the Wall Street head honchos repeating their mantras of demanding companies must have 10+% profits (vs the 1% - 5% profits being respectable in the past) and they had to produce large dividends for stockholders, they guilted companies into moves that ultimately screwed the consumer. I.e., the shareholders came first and the consumer second. So I really think the blame also lies in the business media that pushed these companies to this point...

Meanwhile the consumer, still wanting some type of sedan, left the American companies in droves and went to the "budget" and moderate-priced foreign companies - whether the various Japanese companies like Nissan or Mazda, Korean companies like Kia, or European companies like Suburu or VW or Saab, and by then, getting parts for these vehicles was not as onerous as in the past when they had to be imported, so that sealed it.

I remember when the Taurus was literally one of if not the top-selling sedan for years for Ford... But it was like they got "bored" with it and decided to dick with it, then drop it, until they finally realized what bubble-world can do to you, so they brought it back but now it's too late. They then sortof rejiggered and tried the Focus - which again shot up there as a top-seller, but then here came that chase for the profits and larger cars (and the soon-to-be resurrection of the Bronco - due in 2020 to add to their Escape/Explorer/Expedition).

One of those most amazing transformations that I have seen along that large vehicle line was the creation of the 4-door pickup truck! They were all 2 doors with a bench seat, then suddenly they were stretched so you had 2 full front doors and 2, half-size passenger doors... And now you have 4 full doors. And when you have a whole generation (millennials) who grew up in minvans, they refused to get any of those, so they have opted for the SUVs. Mission accomplished (except for those who have money to buy EVs)!

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Response to ProudLib72 (Reply #16)

Tue Nov 27, 2018, 05:10 PM

34. Who is arguing, from the perspective of the company, this is the end of the world?

 

" My point is that, from the perspective of the company, this is not the end of the world..."

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Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2018, 11:13 AM

5. Your list and your point

First, you make a good point about GM's perspective about their plants. One plant in Ohio is a statistical point from the corporation's point of view.

But on your list, how many of the workers in those plants are Americans? The symbolism of the closing of an auto plant in Ohio impacting American workers is powerful. It demonstrates very clearly how Trump is impotent and ignorant. I doubt, however that many of those workers who supported Trump will understand the cause and effect of Trump's trade policies, (if by "policies" you mean complete bug-fuckery).

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Response to PJMcK (Reply #5)

Tue Nov 27, 2018, 11:31 AM

14. Very true, and I hope my edit clarifies my position

It's the symbolism of an "American" company closing its plant in the American heartland that strikes a chord with the public. The Rump just uses that to gin up his base.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2018, 11:14 AM

6. Sure, go tell that to the thousands losing their jobs

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Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2018, 11:17 AM

7. I love how Trump claims to be anti-global - but keeps saying "they're coming back"

 

Who is coming back?

Answer - International Businesses - GLOBALISTS

We can let him get away with this double talk

Trump isn't starting NEW domestic businesses to build the manufacturing base - he's inviting the globalists back to America.

Point this out to Trump-heads whenever you have the chance

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Response to hexola (Reply #7)

Tue Nov 27, 2018, 11:24 AM

11. The damn fool talks about globalization as evil, but he has businesses all over the globe. The guy

is a damn fool con artist and his followers are so damn ignorant it's amazing they make it through each day.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2018, 11:20 AM

8. Try telling the 14,000 or so people losing their jobs how "very little" it means.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2018, 11:21 AM

9. Oshawa Car Assembly, Canada is closing

It's been around for a 100 years in Oshawa and has helped keep thousands of people in that area employed.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2018, 11:24 AM

10. This is the biggest layoff I can remember - anyone?

 

Anyone remember a bigger one?

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Response to hexola (Reply #10)

Tue Nov 27, 2018, 11:29 AM

12. Do you mean in the auto industry or in particular.

During the tech crash of 2000 there were double-digit thousand layoffs announced every day for a couple of months. Sometimes, several a day.

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Response to Hugin (Reply #12)

Tue Nov 27, 2018, 11:30 AM

13. Both - just looking for some context - nt

 

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Response to hexola (Reply #13)

Tue Nov 27, 2018, 12:22 PM

19. Here

The Layoff Kings: The 25 Companies Responsible for 700,000 Lost Jobs

Douglas McIntyre, AOL.com
Aug 18th 2010 7:00AM

<...>

1. General Motors
Number of jobs cut since recession began: 107,357

The entire auto industry felt the pain of the recession -- U.S. car sales dropped from an average 16 million a year in 2005 to 11 million in 2009. GM was especially hard hit, forcing it to cut tens of thousands of workers. The largest layoffs came in February 2009, when the company let go of 50,000 people -- almost 20% of its workforce. Those cuts, however, weren't enough to keep the company solvent. GM ended up filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection four months later.

<...>

18. Ford Motor (F)
Number of jobs cut since recession began: 15,912

Like many other automakers, Ford felt the pain of nosediving sales. Not only did the company have to cut workers at its core business but also at its Ford Motor Credit unit, which recorded a net loss of $228 million in the last quarter of 2008. The company also had to write down $2.1 billion in leases and car loans.

<...>

25. Chrysler
Number of jobs cut since recession began: 13,672

The bad fortunes of the car industry caused the third-largest U.S. carmaker to lay off 12,000 people in late 2007. Later, the company fired another 5,000 employees -- or about 25% of its salaried workers. Unfortunately, even after all those cuts, Chrysler still filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection.

https://www.aol.com/2010/08/18/the-layoff-kings-the-25-companies-responsible-for-700-000-lost/


(sorry for the AOL link but they had a good summary)

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Response to hexola (Reply #10)

Tue Nov 27, 2018, 03:52 PM

26. It's not even as big as GM's 2009 layoff round, that was 49,000

The biggest layoff in US history seems to have been IBM in 1983, when they laid off 60,000 people (!) Second place is Sears Roebuck in 1993 with 50K.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #26)

Tue Nov 27, 2018, 04:03 PM

30. well, I used to work for Digital Equipment Corporation ....

They laid off 60,000 by the time they got to me. 1992.

then the last 60,000 got laid off as the company went under. What was left was sold to Compaq, which was later sold to HP .....

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Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2018, 11:41 AM

15. trumps threats will only make more businesses reject him

And all the horrible policies causing them to lose billions. They can see his threats now as another reason to pull out of this country if the KGOP won't stop this now. He can't be trusted for anything he says, and he'll do this to further hurt them unless they serve only him. This will not end well with trump in control , and for the kgop people supporting him.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2018, 11:53 AM

17. Thanks for sharing corporate logic with us. What's one plant closing in the US anyway? It's of...

little concern, right?

Wrong. It's actually four plants here and one in Canada—some 14k GM jobs and thousands of others in suppliers plants and businesses around the plants that depend on patronage from plant workers.

It may not mean much to the company but it means everything to all those people who are going to be out of work, especially those in their 50s who will never find a comparable job.

And the workers in their 60s approaching retirement will have some lean years where they will have to spend down their pensions or 401ks until their SS kicks in.

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Response to brush (Reply #17)

Tue Nov 27, 2018, 03:47 PM

25. You're absolutely right. I am sharing corporate logic to make a point

We cannot be loyal to a company like GM just because they are "American". They aren't "American" at all. They are a global corporation intent on surviving and growing at the expense of anyone who trusts them to take care of their employees in the long term.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2018, 03:02 PM

21. Take your eye off the ball for even a minute

and you have no idea what is going on. When I began reading this thread I had a nagging thought in the back of my mind that the UAW owned a mess of GM stock. I did a google and began reading the first article which I will link here -

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/general-motors/2018/03/05/uaw-veba-stock-sale/111124700/


Now how the heck can anyone keep up? Do WE (the People) still own GM along with the UAW? Or did they pay the money back?
(I guess I need to go do more research on that.)

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Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2018, 03:39 PM

24. Warren Ohio will be devestated...there are not many jobs and now there will be fewer...so can we

please stop pretending that there will be other jobs to take their place? There never are...so that is the real deception here.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #24)

Tue Nov 27, 2018, 03:53 PM

27. Who is pretending? I'm certainly not

The Rump demanding that GM do something or else is the real deception. GM could pack up and leave the US entirely and it wouldn't kill off the company.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #24)

Tue Nov 27, 2018, 03:55 PM

28. Probably not in Warren itself, no; people will need to move closer in to Youngstown or Pittsburgh

But there are more vacant health care jobs in either of those cities than there were auto jobs at this plant.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #28)

Tue Nov 27, 2018, 04:04 PM

31. Off subject a bit, but the rise in Health Care jobs is often hospice, home-care type jobs

 

that pay about $10, in a Blue State. Also, indicated is the dying off of the often conservative elder population. Used to manage one of those businesses in an upscale retirement development. Can hardly imagine how it would go without the "upscale" aspect. Oh, and most of them, even though in a Blue State, were Republicans. Occasionally I had to take a shift, and they were very opinionated.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #28)

Tue Nov 27, 2018, 08:35 PM

36. Youngstown is 15 minutes from Warren...and Pittsburgh is over an hour over some of the worst

roads ever built. I moved from Cortland late this summer. My daughter graduated from YSU and the younger one is going now. I know the area. And I know nurses out of work...we now have one hospital in Youngstown you know...the other closed. Please spare me about the job possibilities in that area. I lived there for a dozen years ...there are few options...and for every auto job, six other jobs go away...three parts plants I can think of in Warren off the top of my head. I will say this. We need manufacturing period without it the prosperity enjoyed by the US which gave rise to the middle class will end inevitably. Those who make things will have the money and the influence. This is the way it always goes.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #36)

Tue Nov 27, 2018, 08:38 PM

38. No, I will not "spare you" the description of the job openings in that area

This was the whole deal, from back in the 1990s. Displaced manufacturing workers were supposed to move into healthcare. There was, and still is, free training for this.

You have to do what you have to do to keep food on the table. People need to be more mobile and more willing to switch careers, like our grandparents were. You're not guaranteed a job just because it used to exist.

There are over 1000 healthcare vacancies in Youngstown, and over 3000 in Pittsburgh. People need to go fill them.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #38)

Tue Nov 27, 2018, 08:59 PM

40. Not every person can be a nurse or whatever...did you miss the part where I told you one of our

hospitals closed? Nurses are laid off at the moment in this area...Do you live in Ohio. I do. My husband lost his job last year...he is an engineer...retired from GM so I know something about the subject. He was working at Delphi...who by the way sent new presses to Mexico and had a big layoff. He had one job interview in the Warren area...one and only one.

We ended up moving to Cleveland. Hubs is an engineer. People come down here and tell some person who has 20 or more years in manufacturing ...why retrainiing is the answer. And get used to making shit money. Retraining is and always will be a dirty word here by the way...because many retrained for jobs that were not here and never will be. People who made a good salary are now fighting for shit retail jobs. It is bad for Ohio and bad for the country...and I tell you it will not end with manufacturing...you know how many white collar jobs are going lately? Many who espouse the 'jobs are not coming back' will find out what that mean to those who have lost their jobs in a more personal way.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2018, 03:58 PM

29. Isn't this the deal that The Cretin was "demanding" that they stay in the US?

 

Speaking of clueless and empty gibberish...

The rest of this, I had no idea. Mini education in economics. Mind boggling. And him with his tariffs on aluminum and steel... WTH does he think cars are made of...fairy dust?

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Response to libdem4life (Reply #29)

Tue Nov 27, 2018, 04:10 PM

32. What amazes me is that his brand is global, yet he seems to understand nothing about

multinational corporations and global economics. Nothing whatsoever! I guess he just left that stuff up to his apprentices for the past 15 years.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2018, 06:13 PM

35. I think GM is in trouble personally

This is coming from someone who once worked at GM, has a father who retired there and from time time, GM is a customer of mine.

5 plant closings is just a datapoint.

From what I see, they still operate with the same ethos and mindset that they did pre 2008. Yes they had a very nice reset provided by a very good President in 2008. But I believe they have squandered that reset.

But the behavior and management techniques that got them in trouble before, are the very same driving the company today.


They remind me of the person who runs up their credit cards, files bankruptcy....and then a few years later is broke and has credit card bills again.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2018, 08:36 PM

37. The one in Oshawa is also closing

 

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Response to ProudLib72 (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2018, 08:44 PM

39. GM banked $2 billion in profits from its China operations last year

GM is heavily dependent on China: it sold 835,934 vehicles there in the third quarter, compared with 694,638 in the U.S. The two markets together contributed more than three quarters of GM’s global sales. GM banked roughly $2 billion in profits from its China operations last year.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-gm-isnt-likely-to-stop-making-cars-in-china-1543320164

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