If the Con pardons Manafort

[malaise]

It is clear that there was collusion.
My firm belief is they are all going down.
Mueller has way more credibility than these criminals.

[Jersey Devil]

1. Manafort will have to sit in jail until at least after November 2020

Even Trump would never pardon him sooner.

[malaise]

2. If he does the Dems will hold hearings

Hahahahahha

[EffieBlack]

3. The worst thing Trump can do to Manafort is pardon him

Which would remove him from the relatively safety and definitely more comfortable federal system and leave him to spend the rest of his life in a state pen.

[Volaris]

8. If Trump's feeling vindictive, that might be a bonus...the prick

[onenote]

10. Maybe not.

https://www.law.com/newyorklawjournal/2018/08/23/bill-to-close-so-called-double-jeopardy-loophole-would-not-affect-manafort-cohen/?slreturn=20181027110842

[tableturner]

15. Actually, you are wrong.

See:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=11479278

[onenote]

24. Not necessarily

See:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=11479741

[tableturner]

26. I am referring to a long list of illegal acts admitted by Manafort.

I was NOT referring to the two charges of which he was convicted, nor the seven charges on which the jury failed to reach a conclusion. I WAS referring to a long list of acts that are illegal federally and in most states.

Mueller had Manafort admit to those illegal acts, none of which he was prosecuting, so if a state charged him with those acts, it would be an almost automatic conviction. A key part of Mueller's plan was the decision to not prosecute those crimes. Therefore, those charges would not be subject to the so-called double jeopardy laws existing in some states, including New York, because they were not federal charges subsequently pardoned.

[onenote]

28. Where is this long list of illegal acts admitted by Manafort

apart from the two counts on which he pleaded guilty and the seven charges identified in the Statement of Offenses accompanying his plea deal -- seven charges that were the same as charges on which Manafort was tried in the Eastern District?

See also: https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211476692#post25

[duforsure]

4. HE will find out

He can't legally pardon other co-conspirators involved , and will be getting more charges for trying to pardon others involved. No court will allow his pardons to stand up, and for these people now trying to reverse they're sworn statements are going to realize this soon.

[malaise]

5. Obstruction of justice is coming

that is all.

[Just a Weirdo]

17. For each pardon, a treason charge should be added to the Resident.

And a fine of one billion dollars per pardon that cannot be paid from the taxpayers, but rather from Rump's personal assets.

Cruel and unusual? I think not. We've been inflicted with his stupidity and his tax cut giveaway.

[Calista241]

37. He can legally pardon anyone he wants to for any reason he wants to.

Presidential pardon power is the only thing that’s basically unregulated by the govt and the Constitution.

[RKP5637]

6. And they are far smarter than idiotic fools like tRump ever even imagined. n/t

[malaise]

7. Ditto

The Con's life story is playing smart but not being clever

https://m.

[beachbum bob]

9. as long as charges exist, Mueller can keep Manafort in jail for many more months

that is Muellers leverage, make it so Manafort stays locked up

and their are state charges as well

[onenote]

13. The state charges threat may be overestimated in this instance.

https://www.law.com/newyorklawjournal/2018/08/23/bill-to-close-so-called-double-jeopardy-loophole-would-not-affect-manafort-cohen/?slreturn=20181027110842

[Just a Weirdo]

19. Not anymore.

He has already lied on his plea deal. The deal is now null and void, and Manafort is now facing a longer stretch than expected.

25 to life. Per charges. In a maximum facility.

[LanternWaste]

34. May be. may not be.

Lots of editorial. Little actual analysis.

[onenote]

35. Actually the link, to an article in the NY Journal of Law, is a lot of law, not a lot of editorial

[allgood33]

11. Doesn't Manafort have to be found guilty or plead guilty to be pardoned?

What am I missing. How can you be pardon for something that you were not found guilty of?

[onenote]

12. No. But in this case he was found guilty and/or pleaded guilty.

He was found guilty on 8 counts of tax and bank fraud charges in the US District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia.
He pleaded guilty as part of a plea deal in the US District Court for the District of Columbia.

And as we know from the pardon granted by Ford to Richard Nixon (and the pardons granted by Jimmy Carter to draft evaders who had never been arrested or tried).

[malaise]

14. He's been found guilty already n/t

Last edited Tue Nov 27, 2018, 02:12 PM - Edit history (1)

[Just a Weirdo]

16. Manafort is unpardonable

He also has state charges in New York.

[onenote]

25. No charges have been brought against him in New York. And NY has a broad double jeopardy provision

And under New York law, he can't be tried for any of the charges that were filed against him in the US District Court of DC (the ones he pleaded guilty to) or in the Eastern District of Virginia (the ones that he was tried on, including those where the jury couldn't reach a verdict).

https://www.law.com/newyorklawjournal/2018/08/23/bill-to-close-so-called-double-jeopardy-loophole-would-not-affect-manafort-cohen/?slreturn=20181027110842

[spanone]

18. K&R...

[Pluvious]

20. Also notice that Benedict Donald's tweets keep saying...

So many people's lives are being ruined by "conflicted Mueller and the 12 angry Dems."

He's setting up the justification for the pardons to come.

[malaise]

27. As long as the Con's life is ruined

I'm good to go.

[cbdo2007]

21. I don't know why people think Trump will pardon Manafort...

that assumes Trump cares about other people. I think he will pardon people for political reasons (such as Arpaio) and his family because they are his name and financial legacy, but he doesn't care what happens with Manafort or Stone or Popadopolous (sp?) or any of these other guys.


Everyone is overlooking one of Trump's M.O.s - always have someone to blame. Right now it's Mueller and the Democrats, but when Mueller and his report comes out, Trump will start blaming Manafort and these guys, saying it was them and he had no idea. He will literally throw any of them under the bus, and has no reason to pardon them. They aren't his friends or family, lol.

[GopherGal]

36. Pardoning Manafort would show the carrot to other potential witnesses

And show them that there are rewards for protecting him ... not that there can be that many witnesses left that Mueller doesn't yet have his hooks into.

On the other hand, I kind of like your point about "always have someone to blame". The "so Mueller showed collusion, but that doesn't show I was in on it" story is plausible enough for his willfully gullible disciples.

[uponit7771]

40. +1, I've been saying red Don is going to do the raygun defender

[Cryptoad]

22. If owed as much $ to the RusskyMob as he does,,,,,,

I would want to stay in Federal solitary,,,,,, far better than being cut up alive into small pieces ,,,,,

Can u refuse a PPardon?

[onenote]

29. If that was really the case, why did he try so hard to stay out of prison

He fought for pretrial release
He fought against home detention
He violated home detention
He fought against being sent to prison after violating home detention
He fought against being transferred to the Alexandria Detention Facility where he would be in protective custody.
He agreed to a plea deal in the hope that it would produce a reduced sentence.

Doesn't sound like someone who really is all that concerned about his safety.

Plus, ask Whitey Bulger how safe someone is in prison (you'll have to dig him up first).

[Vinca]

23. If he pardons Manafort - or any of them for that matter - it's more evidence against him.

On top of that, I'm betting the State of New York has a big pile of charges ready to go. If you don't pay federal taxes, it's unlikely you pay state taxes. Don can't pardon state charges.

[DFW]

30. I wonder how many counts Mueller has on Manafort

The second Trump pardons him for one, he'll be slapped with the next one. Trump will look rather foolish (although he MUST be getting used to that by now) granting Manafort pardons for felonies in a weekly basis.

[malaise]

31. Ha - he was guilty on eight

and there are more to come

[DFW]

32. I can imagine the phone calls

Ring ring, Trump picks up the phone: "Yes?"
Caller: "Hey, Donald, it's Paul. I know you're busy, so please pardon me, but...."
Trump: "Don't waste my time with the "but" stuff. You know I'm happy to pardon you. I'll get it signed this afternoon."
Manafort:" But you don't even know yet what it's for"
Trump: "Does it matter?"
Manafort: "Well, theoretically....."
Trump: "I don't do theories. I'll have it made up and sign it. You fill in the blanks, OK?"
Manafort: "Umm, sure. Could you send a few extras, just in case I, um, misspell my name?"
Trump: "Sure. I'll send you thirty of them. Will that be enough until next week?"
Manafort: "Ahhh, probably."
Trump: "Good. Don't bother me with this stuff for at least a week. Don't think you're the only one around here who needs those things."

[malaise]

33. Bwaaaaaah

Lock them all up.

[wiggs]

38. If pardoned, no 5th can claimed related to those, right? Exposes Trump more. nt

[wiggs]

39. Where is the gop in all this? Why do dems always have to do the heavy lifting? nt

[uponit7771]

41. They are being black mailed by the Russians too, their emails were hacked and not released so it

... wouldn't shock or surprise me that this is happening.

Also,

If I were to hack data from the outside it'd be Benedict Donald's base support in republican leaning polling keeping it artificially high to justify some KGOP politicians support of Benedict Donald.

My other CT is this aforementioned is exactly what happened in the Clinton campaign; their polling data in some of the states she stayed out of was hacked and they were presented with false data.

[malaise]

42. Possible

Wouldn't shock me either