Trump Has No Real Assets. He Lives Through Debt.

[MineralMan]

Donwald Trump borrows money. When he borrows, he skims off a pile of it from the loan to cover his lavish lifestyle. Trump has no assets. He has a mountain of debt. People loan him money to pay off debt that has matured and come due. He skims off that, too. It's a cycle. In reality, he owns nothing. In reality, he has so much debt that it becomes collateral for more borrowing and skimming.

Now that he's President, he's using that office as further collateral, making promises to continue the cycle.

Here's the secret of successfully living through increasing debt: Die before everything comes due and you can no longer borrow any more from anyone. That's Trump's dream.

[Eliot Rosewater]

1. All these transactions he brags about, 40 million dollar apartments sold to Saudi's etc

are either completely made up or are buildings he has great debt in but survives with money laundering proceeds working with KGB agents (I wont call them GRU) who are working on behalf of putey and his oligarch buddies.



The debt is to putin and his pals, billions, around 4 I think. If it requires the death of millions to protect him from justice, so be it.

He has no limits of what he will do.

[MineralMan]

5. Trump is now selling influence.

However, his payment always incurs more debt. It's pretty much a pyramid scheme. The question is whether he will die before it all comes due. If so, he has succeeded in his strategy. If not, things will become very, very unpleasant for him, and that will probably do him in.

Putin is much younger than Trump. Trump is in debt to so many people who have no loyalty to him or anyone else. It's all a huge international criminal enterprise, and Trump is a bottom-feeder in that.

I have no doubt that he has made promises he cannot keep to people who have no patience with broken promises. He's nearing the end of this cycle, I'm sure. It must scare him shitless, I think. He knows what he's facing, too. I just hope he doesn't do something that puts us all at risk.

[GopherGal]

25. Isn't he protected by incorporation?

I don't know a lot about it, but I suspect that in that bragging, he's conflating his personal wealth with his business's assets.
The loans bring cash into his business. He pays himself a salary from the business. Business defaults on the loan, but his personal wealth is protected.

Of course, when we're talking about the less savory lenders, those guys aren't forgiving any debts just because legally the liability belongs to a company that declared bankruptcy...

[DFW]

2. The old saying is unfortunaltely true

Steal $100 and you're a thief.

Steal $100 million, and you're a hero.

[Buns_of_Fire]

17. Along with its corollary:

If you owe the bank $50,000, you have a problem.

If you owe the bank $50,000,000, the bank has a problem.

(Who would want to be known as being on the loan committee of a bank stupid enough to loan Rump fifty million?)

[DFW]

18. And so who was more stupid?

The guy who approved the loan, or the idiots who signed on to it after it was approved?

[libdem4life]

30. I think we're talking about Justice Anthony Kennedy

and his son, Justin. I think the bank is Deutsch Bank ??? Justin is on the committee for approving loans...many, many to The Cretin. This may be a scandal in time...why Justice Kennedy quit when he did???

[DFW]

37. The timing of Kennedy's departure is itself worth an in-depth investigation

But as they were surely being careful to stay just this side of the law, it's probably one for an investigative reporter, not the FBI.

[libdem4life]

38. Yes.There is definitely something there...but in the scope of things?

Anthony leaves with a cloud over his head, but not many will even know it. He'll truly retire. I think Justin left the bank.

[tblue37]

43. Another version: if you owe the bank fifty thousand dollars, the bank owns you.

If you owe the bank fifty million dollars, you own the bank.

[vlyons]

3. We'll soon find out when Maxine Waters gets his tax returns.

I am so excited about Maxine Waters.

[Calista241]

12. Technically it's not Maxine Waters that will get them

It's the incoming Ways and Means committee chairperson, which is supposed to be Richard Neal (D-Mass).

[Siwsan]

4. So, does that debt pass to his wife/kids or just evaporate, when he's gone?

[MoonRiver]

6. Passes, I think. But they'll just do the same thing.

Debt is a family tradition for those grifters.

[Siwsan]

8. It is incomprehensible, to me

I can't even begin to imagine living like that. But then, I'm not a conscience-free, narcissistic sociopath.

[MoonRiver]

20. He learned at the knee of his Nazi daddy, master of all things con and criminal.

[tblue37]

44. Becky Sharp lives one step ahead of her debt in "Vanity Fair." nt

[Siwsan]

45. True

And, back in the real world, I no doubt know people who also do the same thing.

Most of my former co-workers are people who don't have two nickles to rub together, have borrowed heavily against their retirement funds, yet still get their hair and nails tended to, weekly, go out to lunch every day and own more new shoes and clothes than I do old ones. And they will likely have to keep working until their health makes it impossible to continue, while I retired young, healthy, active and financially solvent. And resented. Very much resented.

[MineralMan]

9. I don't know, to tell you the truth.

I suppose it all depends on how it's structured. Clearly JarVanka are tied up in it. Kushner tries to play the game, but isn't very good at it. Trump's boy-genius sons are probably on the periphery of the whole thing, never trusted enough to hold the reins on this runaway wagon. They're expendable, I imagine.

But, I don't know any of the details. Probably we'll never actually find out. Too many people are involved, and most of them have to protect themselves from disclosure of what has been going on.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

27. Personal debt isn't inherited.

But if the heirs inherit a corporation, they inherit its liabilities and assets.

[Caliman73]

7. He has admitted as much.

He called himself the "king of debt". There was a report, on CNN I think, that discussed the situation. It isn't anything new or major that people in real estate use debt to make money, but he has made it as you said, a lifestyle. Ivanka was talking to the press one day and told a story about how they saw a homeless person laying in the street and Trump told her, "That man has 8 billion dollars more than me". signifying the level of his debt.

I agree that he is using the office of the President to barter for terms or credit. This is why we need to see tax and business information from ALL candidates before they can run. This jackass' lifestyle through debt has placed the security of the US on very precarious ground.

[Gothmog]

36. trump's word is worthless and so traditional lenders will not lend to him

trump is probably being financed by either Saudi Arabia or by Putin/Russian Oligarchs. No traditional lender will make a loan to trump

[Wellstone ruled]

10. Darn we do see

the real picture. Have said for quite some time,this Guy is running a Ponzi. When Records suddenly disappear and show up in a Warehouse in Jersey only to be flooded by a malfunction of a sprinkler system, the night before the Investigators gain access.

When your pledged Assets are loosing value against your out standing debts,strange persons with cash show up at your door. And their names are Serg,Ivan,or Igor,what can go wrong I ask.

In the old days the names were the likes of Don,Dominic,Gino and Two toes Donnie .

[LiberalFighter]

11. I don't doubt it. It needs to be totally exposed.

And if necessary create legislation to prevent it in the future.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

13. So he is the personification of the Ponzi Scheme..

"I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today" kinda guy..................

[MineralMan]

14. Yeah, pretty much.

Robbing Peter to Pay Putin. Or something like that.

All of those loans, like all loans have conditions attached to them. And those conditions aren't always financial. If he's gotten in so deep that he has to get loans from the Russians, we're in big trouble. Or he is, anyhow.

Frankly, this is all getting more than a little scary, I think.

[SoCalDem]

15. Excellent book title..get busy writing

"Robbing Peter to Pay Putin"

[MineralMan]

16. I don't have enough knowledge to write that book.

I'm just a spectator with no connections in DC.

I'll let someone else write it, and I'm sure someone will.

[Gothmog]

35. There are other legal structures that are easier than Ponzi schemes

Ponzi schemes require new investors or targets to constantly come into the investment. You would see some evidence of this if trump was constantly offering new debt or equity to investors. Ponzi schemes require a ton of promotion and a supply of gullible marks or targets.

Here, I suspect that trump is being financed by Putin or other Russians oligarchs by the use of equity investments in trump LLCs and that in effect trump is managing a ton of assets for the benefit of Putin or other Russians

[Vinca]

19. Unfortunately, he's running the country in the same way.

Spend, spend, spend and cut the tax revenue needed to pay the bills.

[lunatica]

21. Yes. And his tax cuts for the wealthy was him skimming off the top

and he probably figured the rest of the wealthy beneficiaries would owe him for it and he could count on them thanking him by throwing money at him in his never ending Ponzi schemes.

[ProfessorGAC]

39. How?

Assuming MM is right, and i do assume that, if he is in perpetual debt, he has no income to tax. So, he wouldn't be paying taxes now.

Those cuts don't benefit him directly. He's just an idiot that got bamboozled by Ryan and the norquistians who still want to drive the government to the point of bankruptcy to trigger their orgasmic Rand fantasies about an economic anarcho-oligopoly.

Those cuts were his ideas. He was just too dumb to figure out they were a bad and unnecessary idea.

[lunatica]

40. Like I said

He definitely does benefit directly because his real estate empire in New York actually got him tax incentives because he negotiated a tax deferment for his buildings which means he paid nothing to the city and state of NY for decades. That’s money that he kept for himself.

When he supposedly paid the taxes on his Casino he did it with the chits from the profit of the casino which his father conveniently put in a bag and took from the casino the night before. That’s the house gambling winnings put directly into his pocket. It’s the mafia way too. Skim your portion off the top in each nights gambling winnings.

Then skip to today where as President he gave the richest the tax breaks. He did it so they would spend money on him when he needed it. He may not have to personally pay taxes but he gets his share of our taxes directly in his pocket.

He also charges for the secret service having to stay in any of his properties which is our tax dollars going to not only pay for him having the secret service in the first place but we also get to pay for their required accommodations, food, rental of golf carts, etc. that’s our tax dollars that also go directly into his pocket.

Pretty nifty huh?

[ProfessorGAC]

41. But The Debt Still Exists

So, I think it not so nifty!

[lunatica]

42. The debt works for him

The more anyone owes the more leeway they get from the debtors. That’s Capitalism for you. He could get more loans from the same creditors simply because they want their money back. If they don’t coddle him and people who game the system like he does they definitely won’t get their money back. If they give him more they might still get it back.

[ProfessorGAC]

49. Well, I Get That

We all know that finance people even have a fancier word for it. They call it leverage. But, investors and analysts look for the D/E ratio and if it's too high, the value of the equity gets downgraded.

In the case of this buffoon, the D/E has to be 20 something.

[jcgoldie]

22. "Die before everything comes due..."

Hope his dream comes true soon!

[Blue Owl]

23. The Art of the #CrookedDeal

n/t

[Power 2 the People]

24. +1000

[Kablooie]

26. So how does that work out if you have to do all your business from prison?

Though, actually, I don't expect Trump to do a day of prison time.
He'll skate through it somehow and will probably be able to continue living in luxury even if he's impeached.
Some fools will continue to loan him money.

[True_Blue]

28. He increases his debt because he never pays his debts

He even stiffed his wedding caterer when he married Marla Maples. Trump did get money from his father, but he kept blowing it. He declared bankruptcy something like 6 times. Trump is just an egomaniacal grifter.

[A HERETIC I AM]

29. He's a money launderer.

Consider this;

He is big into golf and golf courses as well as lavish, overpriced tall buildings sold off as residences. In this country, golf appeals to a dying demographic, and much like NASCAR and some other pastimes, it isn't attracting new blood to follow the footsteps of the white, old fart golfers who are dying off. As a result, no banker worth his salt wants to lend money to build new golf courses because this isn't 1971 anymore, even though Trump seems to think it is.

Enter the Russians and the Saudis. 2 groups that have a shit ton of dubiously attained cash looking for something to do with it. Trump has the perfect vehicles; Overpriced condos in towers all over the place and fucking golf courses.

[FakeNoose]

31. Supposedly in his will he leaves $300 million to each of his kids

... and I'm not sure how much the wife gets. I can't remember where I read this but it might have been in one of David Cay Johnston's books.

[Hoyt]

32. +1. Most real estate promoters I've seen are always looking for the next deal and loans.

When banks start saying, “No more,” they are screwed.

Truthfully, I think he ran for publicity hoping it would boost cash flow, but never expecting to win primary. When his racist rallies attracted white wingers, he saw a new boost to revenue, avoiding looming forced bankruptcy. Hope trump family’s debts catch up with them.

[Just a Weirdo]

33. In this case, a margin call is now required

before he can continue to be an asshole.

All loans paid up. Emoulments clause strictly enforced. Trump has zero room for error (and often bumbles through it).

[Gothmog]

34. We need to see the trump's tax returns

True debt would have to disclosed on the FEC filings but there is a form of quasi-debt that would only show on the tax returns. I am a corporate attorney and I structure deals all of the time. One common structure that is used all of the time is for one member or partner to make an "equity" investment in a limited liability company or limited partnership where the equity investment has to be repaid back to the equity partner before the other partners or members are entitled to distributions. The other partner or member does not make a significant equity contribution and will be entitled to distributions only after the equity partner or member is repaid their capital contribution or equity investment. Many of these deals require the equity member of partner to get a return of capital and a preferred return on top of the return of equity. IRS rules on substantial economic effect requires that all distributions must ultimately follow capital accounts.

trump is fighting the release of his tax returns. I understand that trump has several hundred limited liability companies. I suspect that more than a few of these entities were funded by Russians or Putin as "equity investments" and that trump is really just managing these investments for the benefit of the Russian oligarchs or putin. Again, you will be able to see the relative capital accounts on the K-1s to these returns and can determine if trump has any real capital invested in these entities.

Again, any true debt would have to be reported on trump's FEC filings and I doubt that trump will risk a clear violation of the law when the same results can be obtained with the structure set forth above.

Another common provision is that the equity investor often has the right to buy out the non-equity member or partner for a low amount or to remove the non-equity member or partner without cause. This type of provisions could also explain why trump is terrified of Putin and how Putin has so much control over trump

I am convinced that trump is not releasing his tax returns because these returns would expose that he is only managing assets for the benefit of Putin or Russian Oligarchs

[former9thward]

46. How come Clinton did not mention a word of this in the 2016 campaign?

Surely her campaign would have known about this.

[MineralMan]

48. What would she have said?

She had no details about his finances. He never released his tax filings. It's one thing to know something like that, but proving it and explaining it in a short form way isn't easy. Not good campaign fodder.

[Buckeyeblue]

47. He lives off unofficial Russian debt

Remember, banks ran from 45. He defaulted on their loans. The Russian's played by different rules.

I can't wait until the day when we find out he has nothing. And I only say that because he gloats about how much he has.