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BamaRefugee

(3,483 posts)
Tue Nov 27, 2018, 04:32 PM Nov 2018

Question about possible Manafort pardon?

Anybody have a definitive answer on this?:
One of the big deals the press and people on DU have made about Manafort is the fact that the Feds took everything he owns apparently, his house(s), his bank accounts, his possessions, etc.

And now lots of people are making a big deal about Manafort getting indicted for various crimes by different States, even if he gets pardoned by Trump, so he's not off the hook.

My question is, if Manafort gets a Presidential pardon, does that then restore to him everything that the Feds took away? If so, it might be a factor in his non-cooperation, even if he has to do time in a state penitentiary, at least his family would have a roof over their heads(in a gated community no doubt) and lots of luxurious cars to drive to see him on visitation days, plus money in the bank for the long term.


Anyone know if this is how it would work?

5 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Question about possible Manafort pardon? (Original Post) BamaRefugee Nov 2018 OP
They didn't seize everything. SeattleVet Nov 2018 #1
I doubt a pardon could restore his property Jersey Devil Nov 2018 #2
He already pleaded guilty to uncharged state crimes as a part of the plea deal. SeattleVet Nov 2018 #3
A very good and interesting question onenote Nov 2018 #4
Mueller made sure benld74 Nov 2018 #5

SeattleVet

(5,477 posts)
1. They didn't seize everything.
Tue Nov 27, 2018, 04:45 PM
Nov 2018

He was allowed to keep a place in Florida for his family. Just a little shack, compared to what he did have to forfeit.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/10+St+James+Dr,+Palm+Beach+Gardens,+FL+33418/@26.8235948,-80.1186756,197m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m8!1m2!2m1!1sFairwinds+Drive,+Palm+Beach+Gardens,+FL!3m4!1s0x88d92ab5ae7a0ce1:0x13fc8cff4e129169!8m2!3d26.8235936!4d-80.1181262

He did have to give up his tRump Tower place, the big one in the Hamptons (10 bedroom, tennis court, basketball court, and a putting and chipping green with and trap), and a few others in NY, worth around $22 million.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/05/nyregion/paul-manafort-property-forfeiture.html

Jersey Devil

(9,874 posts)
2. I doubt a pardon could restore his property
Tue Nov 27, 2018, 04:45 PM
Nov 2018

Seizures of property in conjunction with the commission of crimes are usually covered by civil forfeiture statutes. For instance, if you get caught with drugs in your car you would be charged with possession of drugs, then fined, jailed or put on probation. In addition, under civil forfeiture laws, you could lose your car. That forfeiture is covered separately under civil statutes.

So while a President has the power to pardon for criminal violations, he would have no power to avert the effects of civil statutes to forfeit property, in my opinion.

SeattleVet

(5,477 posts)
3. He already pleaded guilty to uncharged state crimes as a part of the plea deal.
Tue Nov 27, 2018, 05:47 PM
Nov 2018

See:

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/11/fox-news-legal-analyst-stunned-at-how-mueller-made-it-impossible-for-trump-to-save-manafort/

for details on how even the Faux-Snooze Anal-Cyst Andrew Napolitano can see that there is no way he can avoid spending the rest of his life behind bars.

“The guilty plea is 175 pages long. In my career, I have never seen one like this. It was so carefully crafted by Bob Mueller and signed by Paul Manafort, that at the time he pleaded guilty to the charges he was indicted for — which was basically bank fraud, money laundering, and some form of commercial bribery of foreign officials in federal court. He also pleaded guilty to uncharged state crimes in New Jersey, in Virginia and in California.”

He added, “Why did they do that? To make it pardon proof so if President Trump, which he can do, does pardon him for the federal crimes the state prosecutors in those states already have his guilty plea.”

onenote

(42,694 posts)
4. A very good and interesting question
Tue Nov 27, 2018, 05:58 PM
Nov 2018

There is not a lot of guidance in the case law regarding the impact of a presidential pardon on the payment of fines or imposition of forfeitures.

In 1995, the DOJ Office of Legal Counsel opined that where a criminal conviction was accompanied by a restitution order and a presidential pardon was given, the pardon would undo the restitution order to the extent restitution had not yet been paid to the victim, but if the restitution had been paid, there could be no recovery of it after the pardon. That opinion did not address fines and/or forfeitures payable to the government.

When Bush commuted Scotter Libby's sentence he specifically stated that the commutation did not extend to the fines that were imposed on (but had not yet been paid) by Libby and, in fact, Libby had to go ahead and pay those fines. But implicit in Bush's excluding the fines from the commutation order is the notion that Bush could have, had he chosen, cancelled the fines or, possibly, ordered the money returned to Libby if it had already been paid. (When Trump later gave Libby a pardon, his statement referenced the payment of the fine but did not indicate that Libby was entitled to recover it).

The terms of the plea agreement between Mueller and Manafort raise additional questions about the status of the forfeitures. In particular, that agreement states at one point that "Your client understands that the United States may institute civil or administrative forfeiture proceedings against all forfeitable property in which your client has an interest, included the Forfeited Assets, without regard to the status of his criminal conviction." That language might be read as suggesting that a pardon relating to the criminal conviction does not impact the right of the government to institute forfeiture proceedings. Other language in the plea deal seems to link the forfeitures to the criminal charges and guilty plea.

So the answer is, we simply don't know.

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