General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsEx-Sen. Al Franken takes first steps back into public arena
By STEVE KARNOWSKI
today
MINNEAPOLIS (AP) Nearly a year after he resigned his U.S. Senate seat amid sexual misconduct allegations, Al Franken is testing whether he can make a comeback in the #MeToo era.
The former Saturday Night Live funnyman released a podcast on health care this week, just days after a Thanksgiving Day Facebook post in which he mused how much he missed being in the fight every day.
When I left the Senate I said I was giving up my seat but not my voice, and after the midterm elections I thought Id start experimenting with ways to make my voice heard, Franken said as he opened the podcast. He ended by saying: Maybe Ill do another one, I dont know.
Franken was a safe bet for re-election before a radio host last year accused him of forcibly kissing her during a USO tour in the Middle East in 2006, and circulated a photo in which he can be seen pretending to grope her breasts. That was followed by allegations from several women that he groped them while posing for photos.
more
https://apnews.com/852dd792399c4ca6a64eb2c0e4a3a273
allgood33
(1,584 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)a senator required him to regrettably pack that talent away with mothballs. I'd like to see him become a big voice outside the senate.
Humor could draw a bunch of the people who were deaf to thousands of serious attempts to reach them. Even when those imagined they were listening during the debates they completely missed the messages hit again and again.
Thinking about it, I really think he could contribute what we really badly need more of -- stimulation of attention among those who lack interest in public affairs and/or the fear and bigotry that mobilize most of the right.
Mars and Minerva
(369 posts)as well as a presence on line.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)sfwriter
(3,032 posts)That was when he was on Air America.
ananda
(28,856 posts)Come back, Sen Franken!!!!
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)Gain executive experience.
brooklynite
(94,499 posts)wroberts189
(4,105 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)now that would be a good way to step back into the public arena!
dsc
(52,155 posts)I know the same could be said of Clinton when she ran in 2000 but they had publicly committed to move there while Franken seems happy in Minnesota.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Maybe then he'll finally get the due process he deserved.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,323 posts)When he was running against Coleman, he had a line about how in a race between two New York Jews, the choice was clear.
dsc
(52,155 posts)It would be an interesting race but she just got a 6 year term in this election so not until 2024
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)geardaddy
(24,926 posts)He grew up in the same Minneapolis suburb as the Cohen brothers and was high school classmates with Tom Davis, his comedy partner. I'd rather have him here representing me.
HootieMcBoob
(3,823 posts)I remember seeing him on the street on the upper west side in the 80s a couple of times. I think he moved back to Minnesota after leaving Air America in order to prepare for his Senate run.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,323 posts)He then spent time in LA and NYC, then worked for SNL. And yes, he came back to MN after leaving Air America.
IronLionZion
(45,425 posts)and the voters agreed, although it was a very close race with an extended recount
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,323 posts)hlthe2b
(102,221 posts)back MN, where his immensely competent work in the Senate can make a difference for all of us.
Gillibrand is getting her lesson in what happens when one is willing to sacrifice others on the altar of blatant personal ambition. She will go no further in her career.
LakeArenal
(28,816 posts)Al needs no further connection with her.
He is so far beyond her little pond.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)How so?
wroberts189
(4,105 posts)JHan
(10,173 posts)66.4%
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)of that 66.4% heard and understood what her bill to criminalize protesting/boycotting Israel for political reasons revealed about the real Gillibrand. This is a senate bill introduced in the last couple of years, not a relic from her conservative past.
She thought 20 years in prison was a reasonable punishment but, backlash making her rethink, she agreed that rewriting the bill to make it clear that only people who own or run businesses that boycott for reasons of conscience would go to prison. Presumably little unincorporated ones or something...?? Someone else cleaned that up -- now they'd just pay crippling fines for exercising their freedom of speech instead.
If her voters knew, then they've got the right representative and she should stay right there -- until people of principle manage to kick her out and back to the Republican Party.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)Plus, unlike a tiny gaggle of DU agitators, Franken does not harbor ill will against Gillibrand.
Renew Deal
(81,855 posts)fight sexual harassment
George II
(67,782 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)against those who request that those acused of sexual harassment receive such due process.
Renew Deal
(81,855 posts)He admitted wrongdoing and chose to resign. That is due process.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)out of the Senate after requesting that the appropriate Senate committee conduct a full investigation into the allegations.
wroberts189
(4,105 posts)Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)On the ethics committee committee were planning on giving Franken a fair hearing?
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)used it as a forum to humiliate Franken. And due process applies to criminal prosecution not to Senate hearings.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)There's no doubt about that.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)Senate hearings.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)of due process, depending on what, if any, rights, property, civil liberties, etc. are involved.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)/d(y)o͞o prəˈses/
noun
noun: due process; noun: due process of law
fair treatment through the normal judicial system, especially as a citizen's entitlement.
https://www.google.com/search?q=due+process+definition&rlz=1C1SFXN_enUS501US501&oq=due+&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j69i59j0l4.3296j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)You dont need luck.
wellst0nev0ter
(7,509 posts)And not olive-branch apologies for making certain women feel uncomfortable.
I'll wait.
Renew Deal
(81,855 posts)For instance, that picture. I don't know what was in my head when I took that picture, and it doesn't matter. There's no excuse. I look at it now and I feel disgusted with myself. It isn't funny. It's completely inappropriate. It's obvious how Leeann would feel violated by that picture. And, what's more, I can see how millions of other women would feel violated by itwomen who have had similar experiences in their own lives, women who fear having those experiences, women who look up to me, women who have counted on me."
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/16/full-text-al-franken-apologizes-for-allegedly-groping-woman-244978
wellst0nev0ter
(7,509 posts)He said it was inappropriate, not an actual wrongdoing. Besides, there is evidence out there that Tweeden did worse on those USO tours, so you can give your fake outrage a rest
Renew Deal
(81,855 posts)Now were going to argue whether inappropriate is also wrong? Thankfully Franken has more intellectual honesty than that.
GWC58
(2,678 posts)railroaded, BIG TIME. Al was not sexually abusing actors On Stage. This was a right wing attack and, unfortunately, some on the left fell for it hook, line & sinker. Same with the way Madam Speaker Hillary Clinton was, and still is, attacked from the RWNJs, with some assistance from some on the left. To my way of thinking that is deplorable! 😳😱 Just as it was for Senator Franken.
wellst0nev0ter
(7,509 posts)and other lying trumpanzees you mean?
realmirage
(2,117 posts)Very strange indeed. Some people still living in the 1950s.
True Blue American
(17,984 posts)McConnell refused to put Warren in charge of the Agency she created, she then ran for The Senate and has been a thorn in McConnells side ever since.
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)Im in NY, and I would SO vote for him.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)She just won re-election. And she got 66% of the vote.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)No Dem Senator would have been aiiowed to call for Frankens resignation if Schumer hadnt approved it first.
Baitball Blogger
(46,699 posts)barbtries
(28,787 posts)on bullshit allegations. i begged him not to resign and would love to see him back in office. one of the best.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)a kennedy
(29,644 posts)She just got re-elected tho.......
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)Franken could replace her.
But he should run for Governor and get executive experience.
Guilded Lilly
(5,591 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Delmette2.0
(4,164 posts)Or is it on Facebook only?
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)Delmette2.0
(4,164 posts)Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)NT
Le Gaucher
(1,547 posts)Zing Zing Zingbah
(6,496 posts)He was awesome at that. He definitely can be heard that way. Maybe he could help with other people's campaigns too.
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)...then maybe Senator Amy Klobuchar (D-MN) or Senator Tina Smith (D-MN) will be hired for the cabinet, and Al Franken can run, again.
LakeArenal
(28,816 posts)Love Klobuchar though.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Gothmog
(145,124 posts)wroberts189
(4,105 posts)Tarc
(10,476 posts)If he wishes to run for office again, let the voters decide if he has repented enough, that is the proper way to go.
The misogynist tirades against Gillibrand from some circles really need to come to an end, though.
Paladin
(28,252 posts)I hope Franken is back in the public arena, ASAP.
PatrickforO
(14,570 posts)We have a US Senator who leads the charge in calling for a fellow Senator to resign without even waiting for some kind of investigation. Now, regardless of gender, this seemed to me a calculated action designed to elevate that Senator into the national limelight in preparation for a 2020 run. In pure politics, that's certainly how I saw it.
They say politics is like sausage - you don't want to see it being made. But for us to lose Al Franken as a result of such a political manoeuver is despicable. This is why I will not support Gillibrand, Harris or Sanders in 2020.
Due process is the cornerstone of our society. It helps us create the predictability needed to operate as a society, and gives us the (often dimmed these days) hope that justice will prevail and the good will win out over the evil.
cynatnite
(31,011 posts)Al Franken made his choice to resign rather than ride it out through the ethics investigation. Whether it was the right one or not is a matter of debate.
I don't like the antipathy on Gillibrand and some of it goes too far, IMO. If we're not willing to give tRump and the rest a pass it should be no different when it comes to one of our own. We can't be hypocritical here.
I say it's up to the voters and the public to decide if Franken is repentant enough. I think it's possible he is, but I don't know.
StevieM
(10,500 posts)The Senate Democrats, led by Kirsten Gillibrand, cut the process short. They demanded his resignation and promised to completely isolate him, and render him completely ineffective in the Senate. Nothing like this had ever happened before.
It wasn't Franken's choice to resign. The choice was taken away from him, and from the people of Minnesota.
cynatnite
(31,011 posts)Sure, the pressure was there, but in the end he still made the decision. If the choice was taken away, then he would've been recalled. That did not happen.
StevieM
(10,500 posts)And what they did to him goes well beyond pressure.
There should have been a thorough ethics investigation. Gillibrand led the charge to stop that from happening.
cynatnite
(31,011 posts)I understand why you feel that way. I don't. He could've used his bully pulpit more, IMO, but he didn't. He felt he was doing the right thing at the time by putting party over politics. I thought it was the right thing to do and despite my feelings about his actions, I thought it was courageous, too. Others that had similar accusations attacked their victims. Franken did not and I respect that.
StevieM
(10,500 posts)cynatnite
(31,011 posts)Or their memories were faulty? Or they took it wrong? Or whatever other explanation you can come up to explain it all away.
Al Franken apologized and resigned as a result of his bad choices. He acknowledged them. He spoke about his humor that was ugly towards women and acknowledged how bad that was.
Trumpsters feel the same as you do about the women who accused their orange god. SMH
StevieM
(10,500 posts)And he did not resign over his actions, he resigned because his fellow Democrats railroaded him out of the Senate.
The way to address the questions you raised was to have an ethics investigation. Gillibrand and the other Senate Democrats prevented that from happening.
cynatnite
(31,011 posts)Full transcript of apology:
https://www.cnn.com/2017/11/16/politics/al-franken-apology/index.html
Senate speech:
https://www.cnn.com/2017/12/07/politics/speech-al-franken-transcript/index.html
About the ethics investigation:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/11/30/senate-ethics-committee-launches-its-investigation-al-franken/911503001/
He was not railroaded. He chose to resign and he did it before the ethics investigation did their job. His choice. Now, there are some who do regret calling for it before it was completed. There is no disputing that, but let's be real here. He made a choice and he has to live with it now.
StevieM
(10,500 posts)Threats to deny him the ability to do his job and effectively serve the people of Minnesota. They left him no choice unless he was going to ignore the needs of the people of Minnesota. Franken had too much integrity to do that.
The apology was Franken's way of not going on the attack and trying to respect other people's perspectives. He was not confessing to assault or harassment, as he later tried to make clear. But his decision to treat people with respect was used as a weapon against him. Sadly, that is a lesson that people will learn from this situation and it will now be harder to get people to behave with the same integrity and decency that we saw from Al Franken.
cynatnite
(31,011 posts)It's still a choice. He may have felt otherwise, but he still chose to resign.
He did acknowledge what he did. He said he couldn't even remember some of the accusers. I do think he's guilty for some of it. If he was innocent, I think he would have fought it tooth and nail every step of the way. Still, this is the bed he made.
You feel differently and I feel differently about this. I think we should just accept that we disagree about this and move on.
StevieM
(10,500 posts)interpreted as him resigning over his actions, rather than because of the threats he was facing.
And I don't believe he acknowledged what he was accused of, I think he disputed the allegations of wrongdoing.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Charlotte Little
(658 posts)So, thank you.
Also, I think it is sexist to assume that those of us who are criticizing ALL of the senators who demanded Franken resign are misogynists. I'm just as angry at Sanders as I am at Gillibrand and Harris. They ALL did it for political purposes. Please don't tell those of us who see it for what it was we're picking on women.
MrsCoffee
(5,801 posts)They are singling one out.
Charlotte Little
(658 posts)She literally tweeted out an article about it. And that's enough to tell me that she does have an inkling that her motives were askew.
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks." - William Shakespeare
Tarc
(10,476 posts)Franken actually did what he was accused of, this is something that some here like to sweep under the rug.
StevieM
(10,500 posts)But because he treated the women with respect, and said they should be listened to, it was taken as a confession.
He did not resign because he was acknowledging that his actions warranted his resignation. He resigned because his Democratic colleagues bullied him out of the Senate. They made it clear that they would completely isolate him and render him incapable of doing his job in an effective way.
Nothing like that had ever happened before. And Gillibrand led the charge, with the rest of the caucus shamefully giving in and joining her.
Denzil_DC
(7,230 posts)My bold.
Then, the conversation turned to me. Over the last few weeks, a number of women have come forward to talk about how they felt my actions had affected them. I was shocked. I was upset. But in responding to their claims, I also wanted to be respectful of that broader conversation, because all women deserve to be heard, and their experiences taken seriously.
I think that was the right thing to do. I also think it gave some people the false impression that I was admitting to doing things that, in fact, I havent done. Some of the allegations against me are simply not true. Others, I remember very differently.
I said at the outset that the Ethics Committee was the right venue for these allegations to be heard, and investigated, and evaluated on their merits. That I was prepared to cooperate fully. And that I was confident in the outcome.
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/07/al-franken-resignation-speech-transcript-full-text-285960
Now please quit peddling this untruth.
PatrickforO
(14,570 posts)Here's the full text of Franken's initial abject apology, wherein he calls for an ethics investigation with which he says he will cooperate: https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/16/full-text-al-franken-apologizes-for-allegedly-groping-woman-244978
Now, here's a link to the full text of Franken's resignation, and below I have printed an excerpt, with the bolded portion mine: https://www.cnn.com/2017/12/07/politics/speech-al-franken-transcript/index.html
A couple months ago, I felt that we had entered an important moment in the history of this country. We were finally beginning to listen to women about the ways in which men's actions affect them. The moment was long overdue. I was excited for that conversation and hopeful that it would result in real change that made life better for women all across the country and in every part of our society. Then the conversation turned to me. Over the last few weeks, a number of women have come forward to talk about how they felt my actions had affected them. I was shocked. I was upset. But in responding to their claims, I also wanted to be respectful of that broader conversation. Because all women deserve to be heard and their experiences taken seriously. I think that was the right thing to do. I also think it gave some people the false impression that I was admitting to doing things that in fact I haven't done. Some of the allegations against me are simply not true. Others I remember very differently. I said at the outset that the ethics committee was the right venue for these allegations to be heard and investigated and evaluated on their merits. That I was prepared to cooperate fully and that I was confident in the outcome.
This is why I must respectfully differ with your statement.
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)After Gillibrand it was:
Sens. Claire McCaskill of Missouri, Patty Murray of Washington, Maggie Hassan of New Hampshire, Kamala Harris of California, Tammy Baldwin of Wisconsin, Debbie Stabenow of Michigan, Sen. Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota, Maria Cantwell of Washington, Dianne Feinstein of California, Tammy Duckworth of Illinois, Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts and Mazie Hirono of Hawaii also joined in the call for Franken to resign.
Do you feel the same
About Harris, Duckworth, or Warren?
questionseverything
(9,651 posts)that I feel excludes them for being fit for president
including Bernie and I am a huge Bernie supporter
if dems cave every time a republican lies, we are toast
PatrickforO
(14,570 posts)their pitchforks and hoes and head up the long, winding road to the castle, which they intend to wreck and its owner, which they are unclear what they want to do, but hey, it's a mob.
So, my question to you is whether the last person up the hill with the torch and pitchfork is as guilty as the instigator, or if the levels of guilt are somehow different? With that question in mind, here is my answer to you:
Gillibrand has presidential hopes. I will not support her because to gain political advantage through the betrayal and destruction of an ally is despicable. To me, she was the instigator, the guy in the pub that shouted the loudest and got the mob all fired up and vengeful.
McCaskill was up for election in a red state, and anticipated facing a strong Republican opponent. She, in fact, lost to Republican Josh Hawley, and is now out of it. I guess the move, which I believe I correctly read as desperation on McCaskill's part, did not work as planned.
Maggie Hassan had ambitions toward a US Senate seat, which she in fact won from Kelly Ayotte. Supporting the ouster of Franken may have helped her, though Ayotte was caught in a lie and ended up losing a critical number of Indy voters. Specifically she had said Trump was a 'role model' and then later that she would not vote for him. Both talked about bipartisanship, but it was close - less than a point in favor of Hassan. Now, she was a governor, and now is gaining national experience as a US Senator, so may be positioning herself for a presidential run in 2024 or 2028. Should that happen, I will make the decision to support her or not based on her performance in the Senate.
Harris has presidential hopes in 2020, like Gillibrand, and while I like her better than Gillibrand, I will consider her actions vis-a-vis Franken against the her entire package of performance (I always try and look at what politicians DO rather than what they SAY when making a decision as to which one I want to support).
Tammy Baldwin is a good Senator. Her positions are good, and her politics are good. I'm a healthcare voter, and she is pro-Medicare-for-all. She was best known in her own state, and has a very good reputation there. She has made just a couple forays into the national limelight - one where she was trying to get worker representation on corporate boards, and the Franken thing. But, she's not running for president and I'm not a Wisconsin voter. Moot point.
As to Feinstein and Stabenow, I'm irritated with both of them. Feinstein was under some pretty serious attack but both ended up beating their Republican opponents handily. I'm not thinking either has presidential aspirations. So, moot point.
Duckworth...well I have a real admiration and high level of respect for her because she's absolutely courageous, a war hero and a mom who forced the Senate to become family friendly. She's got a will of iron to accomplish what she has as a double amputee. I'm inclined to forgive her this indiscretion because she didn't lead the charge - just piled on. Yes, I'm irritated, but Duckworth is relatively new and has a very, very promising career in the Senate. Later, perhaps in 2024 or 2028 a presidential run would not be out of the question. I would likely support Duckworth, and she's young, barely fifty.
Elizabeth Warren should know better. She's positioning herself for a presidential run in 2020, but if she ends up being front runner and Trump is still in play, which he could be, winning the election would be an uphill slog for her. I'm inclined to forgive Warren, though, because though she piled on as part of the 'mob,' she also knows Wall Street inside and out, and the Accountable Capitalism Act she introduced in August is absolutely brilliant. It would solve SO many problems it isn't even funny - as an economist, I see the primacy of the shareholder as the main root cause of global warming, predatory capitalism, and a host of other negatives we see with Wall Street's short-term 'what kind of profits will you show THIS quarter?' mentality. To my mind, Warren could well replace Teddy Kennedy as the Lion of the Senate - she's that good. So would I support her in a 2020 primary? I'd have to say yes, I'd support her over Clinton, Biden and Sanders. Do I think she could win the general? Against Trump, maybe not - he is a charismatic pathological liar who cares about nothing but winning. Could she win against Pence, or Kasich, or 'Lyin' Ted Cruz? Absolutely, because those three have very little in the way of crowd appeal. My personal hope is that Warren stays in the Senate and continues to introduce bills like the Accountable Capitalism Act, and advocate for workers and consumers. Yet I would support her in a run.
Hirono...well she handily beat her Republican opponent - no surprise in HI. But she has stage 4 kidney cancer and may not last her term. Because of that, well, I just wish her the best, you know? Cancer is an evil disease and when you get over 60 it's like a crap shoot. I mean, who knows? So no, I'm not irritated at Hirono in the least.
So am I rational in my stances? Maybe not. But I own them and still believe Al Franken was railroaded and I will certainly fight tooth and nail against the instigator of the call for him to resign. The people behind with the pitchforks and torches...well you know now how I feel about each of them.
As to me personally, I have never been assaulted nor the victim of other violent crime. I've never been raped, though there was a close call when I was a boy. But I got away. However, many women I know have been assaulted - far more than one might think, and I grew up during the 60s, 70s and 80s when things were pretty wild and wooly. Even the 90s saw some really egregious stuff happening to women. I do have daughters and granddaughters, so my hope is that all vestiges of the 'rape culture' be cleared away. But even the worst misogynist, homophobe, xenophobe or white nationalist deserves due process. That is the cornerstone of our entire justice system.
MicaelS
(8,747 posts)She fucked up, big time. And if can roast men for their fuckups, we can do the same to women.
cynatnite
(31,011 posts)The stuff that's been said here about Hillary not that long ago was bad enough I rarely came around. There's just enough ickiness to the criticism that just doesn't sit right with me.
Everyone should be criticized if they deserve it, but how it's done is where I have the problem.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Franken was railroaded. It was an unforgivable betrayal.
OnDoutside
(19,952 posts)liberalhistorian
(20,816 posts)with her first. I hope this makes her extremely uncomfortable, since she spearheaded his railroading out of the senate without even a hearing or any due process.
dlk
(11,546 posts)Come back Al!
DFW
(54,339 posts)Fear not.
PatrickforO
(14,570 posts)Franken is one of our best and he needs to get back in the fray.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)I know people like you like to conveniently ignore this fact, but, it happened. It is why he issued the apology, then resigned.
questionseverything
(9,651 posts)you mean, doing a uso show with a little raunchy humor then you are not totally incorrect
if you mean he actually sexually harassed someone you are incorrect
apologizing for someone elses hurt feelings is not an admission of guilt
franken was acorned ,it is that simple
Tarc
(10,476 posts)Maybe you can work that out sometime, and get back to us when you're feeling a little bit more progressive.
questionseverything
(9,651 posts)you are literally the only one falling for the repub rat f*cking
Tarc
(10,476 posts)Maybe you should work on that, rather than parroting the MRA movement.
Denzil_DC
(7,230 posts)My bold.
Then, the conversation turned to me. Over the last few weeks, a number of women have come forward to talk about how they felt my actions had affected them. I was shocked. I was upset. But in responding to their claims, I also wanted to be respectful of that broader conversation, because all women deserve to be heard, and their experiences taken seriously.
I think that was the right thing to do. I also think it gave some people the false impression that I was admitting to doing things that, in fact, I havent done. Some of the allegations against me are simply not true. Others, I remember very differently.
I said at the outset that the Ethics Committee was the right venue for these allegations to be heard, and investigated, and evaluated on their merits. That I was prepared to cooperate fully. And that I was confident in the outcome.
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/07/al-franken-resignation-speech-transcript-full-text-285960
Now please quit peddling this untruth.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)It didn't matter what his own recollections were, it mattered how his actions were received by the victims. He was smart enough to realize and acknowledge it.
Keep trying though, you'll get on his level someday.
Denzil_DC
(7,230 posts)You've claimed repeatedly that he "did what he was accused of" and "admitted" it. His words refute that. Live with it.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)even when when you think you did nothing wrong, as Franken did, you'll be a better man for it.
Run along now.
Denzil_DC
(7,230 posts)Run along yourself, and take your patronizing misrepresentations with you.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)This is the sort of thing that will be weeded out of the party in time, though.
Denzil_DC
(7,230 posts)What? Repeatedly lying about elected Democratic representatives?
Yes, that should probably go.
Trot on.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)accused of sexual misconduct when he is on "our" side vs. "their side", then there is no eyeglass prescription in the world that can help you see clearly.
Run along now.
Denzil_DC
(7,230 posts)You've claimed repeatedly to the effect that Franken "actually did what he was accused of doing". How the hell you'd know that, I've no idea, unless you were present at each alleged incident, which would put a new light on matters.
You've repeatedly claimed that Franklen "admitted" it. I've posted his own words from his resignation speech which refute that (as the poster below agreed, though you've not replied to her).
That's two repeated falsehoods. If you want to persist in posting falsehoods about Democratic public figures, that's your choice, but don't expect not to be called out on it on a Democratic board.
Now do trot on. Clippety-clop.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)At some point, one has to cut one's losses when dealing with institutionalized misogyny.
The ignore list is a godsend; welcome to it.
Denzil_DC
(7,230 posts)If you invent "facts", you can expect to be called out on it.
I'm truly privileged to be included on your ignore list.
But you can stick your fingers in your ears and chant "la-la-la" as much as you like, the truth exists whether you're a stranger to it or not.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)He hasn't admitted that he was guilty of the accusations. He states that quite plainly.
PatrickforO
(14,570 posts)inappropriately groped a woman back in the nineties or oughts?
Yeah he should apologize, which he did. Maybe the Senate should have censured him, WHICH IT NEVER GOT THE CHANCE TO DO BECAUSE DEMOCRATIC SENATORS FORCED FRANKEN TO RESIGN BEFORE HE HAD DUE PROCESS.
That is the SINGLE issue about this that I have such heartburn with. Franken's career was crucified on a cross of innuendo (not the photo with Tweeden but the other accusers) before any investigation took place.
I've got three daughters, two granddaughters and a loving wife, and I don't ever want them groped or sexually assaulted. No woman should be. But if we're going to kick every man who ever told any off color joke that offended someone or inappropriately groped someone a couple decades ago out of his career, then the punishment doesn't fit the crime. I can understand how woman are deeply angry about decades of this happening to them, and that change has been far too slow. BUT FRANKEN DIDN'T GET DUE PROCESS. HE WAS TRIED AND CONVICTED BY RIGHT-WING MANIPULATIONS OF THE PRESS, AND FORCED TO RESIGN BY PEOPLE WHO MADE POLITICAL HAY OUT OF IT.
Do you really think Kirsten Gillibrand was so utterly offended by Franken that she demanded he resign for moral reasons, or do you think there might have been some element of positioning herself for a presidential run in 2020? Just asking because that is politics, and just maybe Franken was perceived by some as a serious 2020 competitor. Don't try and tell me that stuff doesn't happen.
You are aware that there allegations that Tweeden might have been manipulated by Roger Stone for political reasons? I mean, why would all those women Franken has worked with in the Senate write that letter of support?
Look at Kavanaugh and Trump versus Franken in the sexual assault/creepy groping/horrible misogyny realm. See, this is the key here. First, is there due process, and second, does the punishment fit the crime? Trump is gross and if the Republicans had actually been fair about the Kavanaugh deal, he would never have been confirmed. Franken cleaned up his act and got very serious when he joined the Senate. He was a good Senator who really cared about his constituents. He was a really strong voice against Trump. So, basically, we shot ourselves in the foot.
We no longer have Franken, but hey, we've got Trump and Brett. What is wrong with that picture?
Well, bottom line, you're gonna think like you do, and I'm gonna think like I do. Neither of us is likely to change our minds because of this post or subsequent ones, are we?
But I'll tell you this: I will fight tooth and nail against Gillibrand in the primary FOR THIS REASON. If she'd waited until the ethics investigation Franken himself requested was over and then, if warranted, demanded his resignation, then I would see her far more favorably. But she ruined any ambition she has for 2020 with this ill-advised act, and if she runs, it will be a bloody, ugly primary where the winner comes out wounded. Basically, she and the several others leading the charge set us up for a real potential circular firing squad.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)I'm glad that you've taken the first step here. That's more that can be said for other entrenched DU denizens.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)What were their motives? Why do you only question the motives of one out of 38? Do you have any evidence to support your accusations? If so, please provide links. Does this particular Senator have a history of sabotaging political opponents? Again please provide examples and links.
PatrickforO
(14,570 posts)Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)Can you provide links that directly support your allegations?
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)Including Tina Dupuy? Please provide links that prove that they were.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)Can you prove that all 8 women who accused Franken were right wing operatives?
Faux pas
(14,660 posts)dem4decades
(11,282 posts)Jimvanhise
(301 posts)So 17 women accuse Donald Trump of outright sexual assault (one of them is successfully suing him) but nothing happens. Yet Franken is the one forced to resign? Trump claimed he was going to sue those women, but he never did. If a Democratic President had 17 women accuse him of sexual assault, Fox News and the GOP would have demanded his resignation.
OnDoutside
(19,952 posts)JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,338 posts)... it showed him pretending to grope her bulletproof vest. A very different tactile sensation, I'm sure.
The bulletproof vest is only a bit more sensual than a 1961-era brassiere.
I wish him well on his return to politics. A presidential run is probably out of the question, but I'd vote for him.
joet67
(624 posts)wroberts189
(4,105 posts)He was a champion of womens rights period.
StevieM
(10,500 posts)to include comments in the body of the message.
I assume that you forgot so I figured I would give you a heads up.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)wroberts189
(4,105 posts)Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)And can you prove all 8 women who accused Franken were GOP plants?
Kingofalldems
(38,444 posts)Apollyonus
(812 posts)and run against Ron Johnson
brooklynite
(94,499 posts)...and why would people from Wisconsin vote for Franken as opposed to anyone else?